Curious
Greensquared
Registered Users Posts: 2,115 Major grins
I'm wondering how you guys feel about the new challenges, both the MC ad Round 13? Like them? Tricky?
Emily
Psalm 62:5-6
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Greensquared
Registered Users Posts: 2,115 Major grins
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as for 13, just another surprise to crack open to see what happens. im happy to get yet another photograph out of this that i would have never thought to do by myself without the requirement of DSS themes.
If the MC was "Banana," I'd be hard-pressed to come up with an image that wasn't just a nicely exposed and composed picture of a banana.
In short, it's driving me nuts! :giggle
Awesome! That means it should push you. I'm really hoping to see some images that are truly from the heart here (for the MC theme specifically). I think there's lots of potential.
www.achambersphoto.com
"The point in life isn't to arrive at our final destination well preserved and in pristine condition, but rather to slide in sideways yelling.....Holy cow, what a ride."
I like this MC better than the previous one, though. That last one was a real head banger. :bash
http://lrichters.smugmug.com
I've got snow, and dark moody skies that don't lend themselves to good photos.
www.achambersphoto.com
"The point in life isn't to arrive at our final destination well preserved and in pristine condition, but rather to slide in sideways yelling.....Holy cow, what a ride."
It is with some hesitation that I even make this post. However, I make it because it is honestly how I feel - and it was asked what we think - so here goes...
I have been an avid Dgrinner for years, and love the community here. I will continue to do my best to contribute positively to the many wonderful photographers here. However, i have lost excitement for the DSS challenges as of late - and the excitement keeps dwindling. The reason is this:
I feel the images that make the finals and then get the public votes do so because of cleverness regarding the theme, not because of artistic merit. Often I feel the images that make it through almost entirely because of the clever way they fit the theme. I am not trying to ruffle feathers, and I am sure I will receive a host of responses to this burning me in effigy. That said, the images that do well in the DSS challenges, in my opinion, seem to be ones that are clever, use some fancy photoshop tricks, or are photo composites. If cleverness in fitting a theme is the purpose of the challenges then they are working perfectly. But, if artistic merit is the purpose, then I feel they are not working. The images that have the strongest compositions (in my opinion - and I know others may disagree) don't seem to do nearly as well as those that are clever or are interesting photoshop creations. I am not sure why this is, but, my observation is that dgrinners identify great images in these challenges by cleverness or cool composite/photoshop tricks. Some ideas I admit are quite intriguing. Many clever ideas to fit the theme blow me away with creativity, but, the execution photographically of the ideas seems to have little to do with the acceptance of it as a great image. If the idea is great and we take a picture of it, then it must be a great photograph. I posit, this should not be the case. Strong photographs need to have compositions that are strong, artistic, and support the presentation of the message. Somehow this appears to have been lost in these challenges.
Just my opinion. I am now ready for my public flogging.:beatwax
I would like to add - I really do appreciate Emily for working so tirelessly to make these successful. I really do appreciate it. Please don't take this the wrong way. I do feel a bit frustrated, and just want to provide some honest feedback.
Also - I LOVE the new feedback galleries.
http://www.jonathanswinton.com
http://www.swintoncounseling.com
I guess I'll jump in here, although I do so also with great hesitation because I consider myself still new here. I won't come out swinging with both fists (hehe) because to some extent I agree with what you said. Just this morning I was thinking to myself how sad it is that photography seems to have become more about what you do with it afterward as opposed to the actual image taken. I am far from being a professional photographer, I have just always loved photography and do so as a hobby, so this is all just my humble opinion. I will admit that I am guilty of doing PP, but I probably have done so more to keep up with everyone else, because my comfort level and abilities with photoshop are pretty sad! My favorite challenge so far since I've been participating was the SOOC challenge. It was so nice to see everyone getting in touch with the photographer in them as opposed to the "computer artist" and I don't mean that in a negative way, I just think it was a good idea to force us to get back to the basics of taking great images. Hope to see more challenges like that in the future!
All that being said, I love being a part of this community. I find myself more inspired everyday, and it has brought me back to my favorite hobby. As far as the images getting selected for the voting rounds, it's so subjective, I think everyone looks for something different, but it seems to me that being "on theme" is certainly what these challenges are about, and perhaps artistic merit is being overlooked. That' my take on this, for what it's worth!
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth." — Mark Twain
lightroom post process is as much part of digital photography as darkroom is to film.
ha the start of another fight
It's strange I've been on this forum soaking up the knowledge for almost a year and I just noticed the challenges.
As far as themes they are quite challenging. I appreciate the push to use my imagination. As much as I would like to compose an image equal to the other great photographers here with a single image, allowing the composite images at least allows me to be competitive. I do not have all the great gear, just two camera's and natural light.
To help the creativity... "my favorite place" could be more than a location, perhaps a state of mind.
The suspence is killing me. There is a DSS and Mega theme, several of us have to be creative with both until we find out which we are eligible for.
Having only entered one so far they are new to me... I think they're fun.
Troy
Absolutely! And it's no less a valid part of the process than the initial choice of equipment to capture the image, including lenses, lights, etc.
I don't think Swintonphoto was arguing against post-processing per se, but against a perceived bias toward the 'wow factor' and 'gee-whiz' reaction to composite work and more extreme Photoshop manipulation.
To bring this back (somewhat) to Emily's original question in this thread, do you think the Challenge themes inherently push Digitalgrinners to vote for more manipulated or composite images?
im just starting a fight....
So was I--responding to Karen, that is, not looking for a fight.
Okay Aaron, I'll bite...I understand what you're saying about post-processing, although I do think that in this day and age you can do so much more with post processing than you could do in the darkroom with film (unless I just didn't take enough classes in the darkroom), so it just seems to me that "photography" has changed so much that the emphasis has become more about manipulating your photos. I have no problem with post processing, in fact I wish I were better at it! Not trying to step on your toes:beatwax!!
(btw-I really like you as a photog too!
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's heaven on Earth." — Mark Twain
i think it comes down to cleaverness evolved within the small space in time we are expected to perform and complete to some degree.
i would vote for something that i know takes time and thoughfulness. sometimes it is composite, sometimes it is camera manipulation at its finest.
i rarely end up voting on one that gave me the knee-jerk reaction... though that scores points with me, i just end up voting for the one i like to ponder on.
you cant do more than before....you can only do it faster.
(i guess this depends on the time line...i refer to 20 yrs ago to present)
I absolutely love the challenges!
Winston
I was even thinking of getting decorated for Christmas a little early just so I could do a shot like you just described...Oh well, the cat's out of the bag now and if you and I both thought of it, I'm sure that others have too.
It seems like most of you are enjoying DSS on the whole. My vision for these challenges was to provide such a wide array of themes and requirements as to really get you all out of your comfort zones and learn. If a consistent fine art photography contest is what you're looking for, this isn't it. Yes, I believe in high technical quality, but I want to see images that tell a story. You can shoot a gorgeous still life in black and white, be dead-on with your technical skills, awesome in your composition and create something stunning. But what does it say to you? How does it make you feel? Yes, you may want it to decorate your house and give it a beautiful, polished look, but do you laugh, cry, melt or stiffen when you see it? Some people achieve this naturally, with little pp and very classy results. We've seen lots of that here. Actually, one of the best overall rounds was the SOOC one. Some people use composites or other pp work to get the message across, or enhance the mood, and it all works together to create an overall image.
There is no one "winning" method here. I've seen images win with very little pp and images win with lots. Plus, the themes to come are designed to stretch you in all areas...stick with it and try them all...if you dare!
I've never had the opportunity to take a photography class and have pretty much learned everything I know (whatever that may be!) by trial and error, and that's how I'm continuing to learn but the challenges have provided me with some direction. Each one has turned into its own mini-assignment in the process of fulfilling my idea for the theme, meaning in the 5 I've tried I've learned about:
- indoor lighting (my first attempts at still life.... with no lighting equipment!)
- SOOC making me REALLY think about composition and exposure (and explore techniques for both)
- first attempt at composite work (finally mastering layers and other pp techniques)
- in-camera zoom effects (again, researching and learning the technique to achieve the look I hoped for)
- processing methods to enhance a difficult-to-shoot subject/location (never knew there were so many ways to do B&W, cross-processing etc - have now learned heaps about those, their film origins and how to manipulate them in PS)
What a gift - it's been like a mini-course (only more fun, and with just enough competition involved to keep it lively!)
Regarding PP: are some of the images submitted and chosen bordering on graphic art rather than "pure" photography? Sure they are. But I think that's ok, if only from the point of view that it's openly known that's ok - it's certainly no secret that those images are acceptable entries in this context, and I think newcomers like myself take their cues from the rounds they watch before jumping in. I can certainly see where sometimes it would feel like it's pulling away from photography towards computer art, but I have also seen plenty of breathtakingly beautiful "classic" photos while following the challenges. And I've learned from both types of image.
In short (short?!) I think Emily has said it beautifully (and far more succinctly than I have!). But I DID want to reiterate how very much I'm enjoying this process, an how grateful I am to have stumbled into this place where I feel encouraged by the community to learn and grow instead of scorned as an under-trained, under-geared newcomer. I love this place
No hard feelings from me. I got the sense that you were feeling less than enthusiastic about the composite and faux tilt/shift shots (and the like) by reading a few of your comments in the feedback gallery. We all filter and respond to the photos through our own personal perspectives and if you prefer more-or-less “straight” photography then I doubt that anyone would begrudge you that point of view. All things being equal, I think I probably prefer a really well executed “straight” photo to a Photoshop mash-up.
However, there have been a few "manipulated" images in the challenge series that I have found to be quite moving/poignant/funny and just plain beautiful Art. Seeing those made me want to give it a try. "Wall St. vs. Main Street" was my first serious attempt at a composite image and it really stretched my skills to figure out how to put the whole thing together. And that's what I like about participating in this series - that it really forces me to push the envelope of my limited creativity and to continue to try new things, and hopefully, grow as a photographer with each new challenge.
haha, myself there is no way i would go for setting up lights and trees just yet...!!!:D
but that might score extra points with the judges
yup!
Amen brother
Oh there's a thought, excuse me a minute while I go catch it
http://pyryekholm.kuvat.fi/
I've pretty much given up on the challenges.
Sure, now and then I post something in them, but I didn't shoot the photo for the challenge, I just happen
to take it during the challenge period.
A couple of challenges that I disliked:
Dusk to Dawn.
Emily and I have already gone over this, I was taught that dusk was after the sun went
down, and dawn was before it rose. About half the finalists had the sun in the shots. Just different
interpretations. Emily's rules were clear as what was allowed, I didn't agree.
The one with the poem.
It's something that I'd never read before. I'm not a poetry kind of guy.
If we would have been able to chose our own text, I would have enjoyed that. As it was, I didn't care
for the poem, and really, if the words didn't say anything to me, how could the photos.
This mega challenge, Your favorite place.
For those that don't live near their favorite place, I think they'll have a much tougher challenge than
a person who loves the city/town that they live in.
I know some of you are trying to figure out a way to do this indoors. A place will mostly be an
outdoor spot for me. This could be a very tough time of year to show the beauty of a place.
Does this just sound like sour grapes? Maybe.
We were asked for our opinions, I gave an honest one.
Flame me for that.
Last thing, although I don't always agree with Emily, I do believe that she's doing a hell of a job running the challenges.
Good to you folks in the Mega Challenge.
Basking in the shadows of yesterday's triumphs'.