I charged $300 over 25 yrs ago, just starting out......even here a beginner gets way closer to 1K........it is way to much work, when you include the post processing and I understand your thinking ......HOWEVER.......if you shoot and the word gets around taht you did Becky's wedding and Janes wedding and Kathy's wedding for $300, then I can't possibley pay you anymore as we are all best friends...............see the thought train going on here...........buck it up to 750 for a basic no prints only online ordering so you don't get into a really bad RUTT here that you can't get out of ..............Normally overly low cheapskate pricing bring you the kmart, walmart $4.99 / 50 photo package kind of customer......and yes they do need to be photographed but not at your expense...........
If you keep pricing at a mid range (wedding start at 1K) there is an implied professionalism and cost = product worth stream of thought that seems to be in peoples minds..........
Well, I asked several different photog's that I know in my town and they said starting I should charge anywheres from $200-$250, and I even thought I was pushing it by going up to $300. One of them started at $250 and now charges $900-$1500 depending on the wedding. I guess I could bump it up, but I don't know how many people will come to me because I'm not well known yet.
I'll try $750 and if people won't pay then whatever I'll lower it some. $750 would be really nice to have right now...
I suggest that you really need some experience shooting weddings before you jump in solo. Check with other local pros and see if they need a second shooter. They might be able to give you invaluable advice and hints that you would find painfully working on your own. They would also probably pay you for the service.
I really suggest you reconsider offering your services before you are truly ready. Going to an event with only a consumer camera and a single decent lens could be counter productive to the good name you hope to establish. More importantly is your lack of experience.
Everybody has to start somewhere, but you need to start in a situation that could be less disastrous if:
The camera fails.
The lens fails.
The flash fails.
A working pro understands the need for redundancy. At present I don't see any redundancy in your kit. If something happens you must have a backup and a plan because you may have literally a couple of seconds to react before you lose valuable shots. Just imagine the value of the lost shots to a bride and groom.
Years ago, a friend of mine was working with 2 medium format Mamiya cameras, and he had recently had one of them serviced just before the wedding. Although he did his usual equipment check, the recently serviced camera did not sync with the flash and all of the images from that camera were ruined. Although he could ultimately prove that the fault was not his, he was still liable. He wound up flying some of the wedding party in at his expense and re-shooting the formals at a later date. He lost a lot of money in the deal but stayed out of court.
In 2004 I had 2 cameras fail during the formals at a wedding I was doing for a cousin. Fortunately I had 6 cameras with me as it was an out-of-state event. I was able to complete with a backup (film) camera.
When you agree to shoot an important event like a wedding you also agree to be responsible for the success of your shoot. Be careful what you promise.
I suggest that you really need some experience shooting weddings before you jump in solo. Check with other local pros and see if they need a second shooter. They might be able to give you invaluable advice and hints that you would find painfully working on your own. They would also probably pay you for the service.
I really suggest you reconsider offering your services before you are truly ready. Going to an event with only a consumer camera and a single decent lens could be counter productive to the good name you hope to establish. More importantly is your lack of experience.
Everybody has to start somewhere, but you need to start in a situation that could be less disastrous if:
The camera fails.
The lens fails.
The flash fails.
A working pro understands the need for redundancy. At present I don't see any redundancy in your kit. If something happens you must have a backup and a plan because you may have literally a couple of seconds to react before you lose valuable shots. Just imagine the value of the lost shots to a bride and groom.
Years ago, a friend of mine was working with 2 medium format Mamiya cameras, and he had recently had one of them serviced just before the wedding. Although he did his usual equipment check, the recently serviced camera did not sync with the flash and all of the images from that camera were ruined. Although he could ultimately prove that the fault was not his, he was still liable. He wound up flying some of the wedding party in at his expense and re-shooting the formals at a later date. He lost a lot of money in the deal but stayed out of court.
In 2004 I had 2 cameras fail during the formals at a wedding I was doing for a cousin. Fortunately I had 6 cameras with me as it was an out-of-state event. I was able to complete with a backup (film) camera.
When you agree to shoot an important event like a wedding you also agree to be responsible for the success of your shoot. Be careful what you promise.
Sorry, I dont know any professionals in the area that need a second photographer. guess I'm gonna read some books and wing it.
Some of the photographers on here use XTI's for wedding stuff. and the XSi is better than that. I think it will be ok. Also I dont have the money to buy a spare camera right now, which is why I'm offering my services so I can make enough money to buy the 5D markII. And by then I'll have enough money to buy extras of things like lenses, tripods, flashes.
I know what I'm doing, I've been trying to get things going for 3 months now. I've been buying stuff over that time. People have seen my work, and have asked me to do their photos. I can't tell them no, because I need the money.
It may seem like I dont know anything to you guys on here because I'm asking so many questions. I'm asking to find out what you know about the subjects so I can learn more from that. I've been reading Strobist and other websites like that, and I know this stuff, I'm just a poor photographer trying to get advice.
To those that gave me good advice that will help me further my business: thank you. To those that tell me not to do anything till I have more equipment than I need at this moment: (just kidding... sarcastic side of me coming out again..., but seriously, you can stop now.)
Sorry, I dont know any professionals in the area that need a second photographer. guess I'm gonna read some books and wing it.
...
(just kidding... sarcastic side of me coming out again..., but seriously, you can stop now.)
Jeremy-
I appreciate your enthusiasm, and I'm in a somewhat similar boat (trying to start a photog co), <and i="" _do_="" like="" sarcasm...="" wait="" for="" it...="">, but....
Do you know _any_ pros in your area? Ask if you can work their next wedding. If they don't want to do it (i.e.: no need for an extra expense), offer to do the first one for free to see if they like your support. (hmm... I may have to follow this advice myself. Why couldn't I think of it until I started trying to offer advice? Darn!)
I myself will probably do a wedding on Halloween this year, so I need to get some practice before doing it. I do _not_ like the idea of walking into what someone considers "the most important day of my life!" and screwing it up.
If you do decide to do this, make sure it's:
a) someone who you don't otherwise know
b) someone who doesn't know anyone you know
c) someone who doesn't even return Costco merchandise they don't like
d) someone who's not vocal. Or loud. Or both.
e) someone who doesn't know any lawyers
f) someone who's doesn't have the money/inclination to hire lawyers they don't know (you think you've got no money now?!?)
More seriously: this is serious poop. You've got some nice shots on your portfolio, and I've no doubt you'll be good at wedding photography. Just get some experience with smaller risks to get it going! Once you're past that, then move on. Plan for a longer term ramp-up.
Heck, if you can find one of those pros (or near pros) who've done weddings before, and you guys get along, and you've worked a couple of their gigs: ask if they'd be willing to be support for you on your first gig! They might take you up on it </and>(likely? depends on your relationship)<and i="" _do_="" like="" sarcasm...="" wait="" for="" it...="">, and then you're covered and will still get your name out there and more recent portfolio shots, too.
(side note to a long post: I've a couple of buddies who do weddings who related a story of the time the "main" guy was shooting and missed the kiss (of "you may kiss the bride" fame). You can imagine the gut wrenching feeling for him as he ran up to his "backup" and asked (urgently), "Did you get the kiss?!?!?" Luckily!)
So: I wish you good luck, but don't count on using it.
(sarcasm really on here) And do a horiz flip on your avatar, will ya?!? Yer killin' me!
</and>
If responding to a picture I've posted: please, provide constructive criticism. Destructive criticism can go take a flying leap.
If we don't know what could be improved or could have been done differently, we'll never know how to get better at what we're doing.
FINALLY! I'm adding you as a friend. cause there are people on here that take stuff WAY too seriously, and personally.
Those shots arent even my good ones. Those are all candids pretty much. especially the ones that aren't in my portfolio gallery.
Well, theres only one person that I can think of, that MIGHT let me join her. but she already has a second shooter... Her husband. I work with her so I bet she would let me. She's no pro obviously, if she was pro she wouldn't have to work elsewhere.
My first wedding gig, probably wont be for a while anyways, so I have plenty of time to get better, and memorize things that HAVE to be done right, and practice it over and over again to the point that I can't mess up. Like I said, I'm going to get a book on weddings, and also a book on poses, which should help me more.
I've been trying to figure out the best way to jump start my "business". I cant seem to find anything on whether or not I personally need a "business license". Turns out theres no such thing as a "business license" its just other licenses that make you eligible to do business with customers and charge sales tax legally. I've read pretty much the entire Wisconsin state legislature website on business stuff, and I can't find anything.
So, professional photographers on here (I know you're there): do you have business licenses, or do you just write up your taxes at the end of the year and file a C form and count it as additional income.
If anyone has legal knowledge on Wisconsin state "business licensing", I could use some help. I'm away at school from September to mid December then go back early January, then get done in mid may. so, while I'm gone I wont be doing "business". Working for that Photography Major...
If anyone has legal knowledge on Wisconsin state "business licensing", I could use some help. I'm away at school from September to mid December then go back early January, then get done in mid may. so, while I'm gone I wont be doing "business". Working for that Photography Major...
I don't know about Wisconsin, but in California business licensing is done through the county seat. I got all the info from my county's web site.
This type of license is just a tax...a way to take your money and doesn't imply anything beyond that.
Don't know about WI, but many (CA in particular) states share their tax returns with the locals. If you file a Schedule C and don't have that "License" you'll get a nastygram with a bill.
As noted above, you'll need to check with your County and/or City to see if they require this piece of your hide.
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Jeremy- I'd still say to be careful. Make sure you're prepared. Try to have backup shooter(s) and camera(s). Getting sued is not going to be worth your time, especially if they take all your equipment because you don't have any money.
On the "starting a business" side of things, anybody have any comments on the following?
Does anyone know about filing a "Doing Business As" type document? My county (I think. State?) requires it, and the cost is only like $10 every 5 years. (We had to do it for the photo group I'm treasurer of, but our President pretty much did it all 'cuz I was too new/inexperienced to know what to do). I think this is required (by the county, but also by the bank in order for them to keep legalities) in order to have people write checks to you by the company's name.
I've also heard setting up an LLC is a proper thing to do and that it's maybe 30 minutes on the phone and $75 (or something; it's been a while since I talked about it with anyone). There is apparently some sort of tax benefit in this? (like your company buys the stuff you would otherwise have bought as yourself, and you can show income vs. expenses and keep the taxes lower.) (I once heard there is a requirement to at least break even once every 3 years or something? Anyone ever hear of this?)
Thanks!
(I've got to get on this stuff again, now that I have a little seed money to put toward it...)
If responding to a picture I've posted: please, provide constructive criticism. Destructive criticism can go take a flying leap.
If we don't know what could be improved or could have been done differently, we'll never know how to get better at what we're doing.
I once heard there is a requirement to at least break even once every 3 years or something? Anyone ever hear of this?
Disclaimer: I am not a tax professional - this is simply my personal understanding and experience. Your mileage - and personal circumstances - may vary, so consult an accountant or other tax professional for authoritative answers!
I think you'll find this is a Schedule C (self-employed/sub-contractor) thing (it applies to me as a self-employed singer): if are claiming expenses an activity on professional grounds, you need to show a profit or at least break even every 3 years otherwise the deductions are considered "hobby". Most importantly, it's a huge FAT red flag for audits.
All that said, if you are CLEARLY a professional and simply showing a loss, then you're good to go. For instance, early in my singing career I showed a loss for I think 5 years, but my accountant wasn't worried at all because although I had a ton of expenses which created the "loss" against the lower fees I was then taking, I was actively performing across the year, a member of the union, had an agent etc etc. These kinds of things serve in the IRS's eyes to prove that you are indeed a working professional and not a wannabee/hobbyist who's claiming only to cut their tax obligation. A singer with a full-time employee-based "day job" who only got paid to sing once a year but was still claiming all coachings/clothes/recording equipment/music expenses etc etc would have a much tougher time proving it was a legit "business".
see, I thought you are supposed to file a C form, stating that you had other forms of income throughout the tax year. Not neccesarily a business, but just a hobby that you get paid to do every now and then.
I would think they would be more happy you're even reporting that you had other income, instead of not reporting it at all.
Also, if I were to consult a tax professional and/or accountant. would they charge me for their advice? again with the low budget... dont have the money to pay for that service right now.
see, I thought you are supposed to file a C form, stating that you had other forms of income throughout the tax year. Not neccesarily a business, but just a hobby that you get paid to do every now and then.
I would think they would be more happy you're even reporting that you had other income, instead of not reporting it at all.
Also, if I were to consult a tax professional and/or accountant. would they charge me for their advice? again with the low budget... dont have the money to pay for that service right now.
See previous disclaimer
Schedule C is for non-employee income, ie self-employed, subcontracter work. The first $600 (as of the last time I checked - haven't done 2008 yet) is typically tax exempt.
I don't know how most accountants work as far as consultations; you'd have to ask in your area. Try to find somebody familiar with this type of work so they have a handle on all the specific deductions which are normally allowable. Also, I'm sure if you google around online there will be some information to further clarify the basic information regarding DBA and Schedule C filing (not least of which at the IRS site http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/selfemployed/index.html)
Here's one blurb which sets out the broad definitions fairly clearly:
http://taxes.about.com/od/taxglossary/g/BusinessIncome.htm Definition: An individual person, conducting business as an independent contractor or as a sole proprietor, reports the income and expenses of the business activity on a Schedule C. Any type of business activity can be reported on a Schedule except for farming (Schedule F) and rental activities (Schedule E). On the Schedule C, the individual reports total business income from all sources, reports various types of business expenses, and calculates the net profit or loss for the business. The net profit or loss is carried to Form 1040, line 12. As a self-employed person, the individual must also calculate the Self-Employment Tax using Schedule SE. The IRS may consider a business to be a hobby if the business continues to lose money year after year. Generally, the IRS will use a rule of thumb to determine if a business is a hobby: if a business loses money in 3 out of 5 years, then it may be a hobby. If the IRS determines your business is really a hobby, then your Schedule C loss will be disallowed. Any profit from your hobby is included as "Other Income" on Form 1040, line 21. Any loss from a hobby is not reported on your tax return.
I report using a schedule c. Even if I only made a few hundred.
My first wedding was gift to a friend. The next one I charged $600. And then raised my prices for subsequent weddings. Study up on wedding photography, but if you think you have what it takes, go for it. As long as the couple understands they are getting a good price because of your inexperience at wedding photography, and you prepare yourself, you'll probably be okay. You have to start somewhere. Yes it would be great to start as a second shooter, but if that's not a possibility, I don't think that means you can never try it.
I report using a schedule c. Even if I only made a few hundred.
My first wedding was gift to a friend. The next one I charged $600. And then raised my prices for subsequent weddings. Study up on wedding photography, but if you think you have what it takes, go for it. As long as the couple understands they are getting a good price because of your inexperience at wedding photography, and you prepare yourself, you'll probably be okay. You have to start somewhere. Yes it would be great to start as a second shooter, but if that's not a possibility, I don't think that means you can never try it.
FYI, you could rent a back up camera.
Caroline
DING! I can borrow cameras from my work. HA! I completely forgot about that! They told me when I first started that they would if I needed one. heck, I'm gonna borrow one of them new 5D mark ii's we got in! if they'll let me ... Otherwise theres a nice 50D there callin my name.
see, I thought you are supposed to file a C form, stating that you had other forms of income throughout the tax year. Not neccesarily a business, but just a hobby that you get paid to do every now and then.
I would think they would be more happy you're even reporting that you had other income, instead of not reporting it at all.
Also, if I were to consult a tax professional and/or accountant. would they charge me for their advice? again with the low budget... dont have the money to pay for that service right now.
I am a CPA and this is not meant as tax advice for any one person, but is instead general info:
Don't you people read the tax code? That's for you Jeremy
Whether you plan on making photography a "business" with a profit motive or not, If you think you'll ever make any money from selling yourself or your photos, keep track of your expenses and equipment purchases.
In general, if you have $400 or more of net earnings (that's the JPEG, not the Raw file) from this type of business/hobby you are required to report the income. Reporting the expenses side is up to you. The $600 amount that is commonly thrown out there is the level that someone would be required to send you a 1099. If you receive a 1099, report the income! Offset it if you can/want to, but report it.
LLC's are popular because they are so easy to create. That doesn't mean they are better or more appropriate. There is no such thing as an LLC federal tax return.... If you don't know why that is or what that means, you need tax advice if you think an LLC is what you want.
Will a CPA charge you for advice? Depends. If you're just being lazy and want a piece of my/our time instead of trying to figure it out yourself, you betcha. Need that info during tax season when I'm working 110-120 hours a week? You betcha. Questions that show that you put in an effort, probably not, unless you are asking something that requires more than general information. I/we want you to succeed because we want your business.
Lead us on, make us think you've got what it takes to be successful. You'd be surprised how much help you can get.
Now go make money!
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All photos are Copyrighted and Registered. Please don't use without permission.
5DSR 16-35 2.8L III 24-70 2.8L II 70-200 2.8L IS II
On the "starting a business" side of things, anybody have any comments on the following?
Does anyone know about filing a "Doing Business As" type document? My county (I think. State?) requires it, and the cost is only like $10 every 5 years. (We had to do it for the photo group I'm treasurer of, but our President pretty much did it all 'cuz I was too new/inexperienced to know what to do). I think this is required (by the county, but also by the bank in order for them to keep legalities) in order to have people write checks to you by the company's name.
Filing a DBA and/or Trade Name registration is normally only required when you're using a DBA or a trade name. If your name is Nate W and you're doing business as Nate W, Photographer, there's no DBA/Trade Name there.
Michigan (the State) does not register trade names. It's up to you to do your best due diligence. Check with your County Clerk, your county does this. If you're forming a business entity, (corp, llc, etc) then check with the Bureau of Commercial Services as part of forming the entity. And yes, you'll need this to be able to open a bank account with that "name".
Constructive Criticism Welcome!
All photos are Copyrighted and Registered. Please don't use without permission.
5DSR 16-35 2.8L III 24-70 2.8L II 70-200 2.8L IS II
I am a CPA and this is not meant as tax advice for any one person, but is instead general info:
Don't you people read the tax code? That's for you Jeremy
Whether you plan on making photography a "business" with a profit motive or not, If you think you'll ever make any money from selling yourself or your photos, keep track of your expenses and equipment purchases.
In general, if you have $400 or more of net earnings (that's the JPEG, not the Raw file) from this type of business/hobby you are required to report the income. Reporting the expenses side is up to you. The $600 amount that is commonly thrown out there is the level that someone would be required to send you a 1099. If you receive a 1099, report the income! Offset it if you can/want to, but report it.
LLC's are popular because they are so easy to create. That doesn't mean they are better or more appropriate. There is no such thing as an LLC federal tax return.... If you don't know why that is or what that means, you need tax advice if you think an LLC is what you want.
Will a CPA charge you for advice? Depends. If you're just being lazy and want a piece of my/our time instead of trying to figure it out yourself, you betcha. Need that info during tax season when I'm working 110-120 hours a week? You betcha. Questions that show that you put in an effort, probably not, unless you are asking something that requires more than general information. I/we want you to succeed because we want your business.
Lead us on, make us think you've got what it takes to be successful. You'd be surprised how much help you can get.
Now go make money!
Trust me, I read the tax code. I spent two days going over everything on the IRS website. I dont want to look at another PDF file on taxes for at least a year. yay quicken, makes taxes easy.
Anyways, so basically if I make over $400 this tax year (hopefully will ) I need to report it. Would I report it with the 1099 form you spoke of, or a schedule C form? take your time, I know you're probably EXTREMELY busy right now. But, busy means money.
Trust me, I read the tax code. I spent two days going over everything on the IRS website. I dont want to look at another PDF file on taxes for at least a year. yay quicken, makes taxes easy.
Anyways, so basically if I make over $400 this tax year (hopefully will ) I need to report it. Would I report it with the 1099 form you spoke of, or a schedule C form? take your time, I know you're probably EXTREMELY busy right now. But, busy means money.
-Jeremy
Man, I don't know what you're doing, but I'm watching the game
Unless you form some sort of business entity, your millions go on Schedule C. You will only receive a 1099 if someone (one someone) pays you $600 or more. Even then, you're unlikely to receive a 1099 from people paying you to shoot their wedding.
Quicken may make taxes easy, but it doesn't make them right :ivar
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Quicken may make taxes easy, but it doesn't make them right :ivar
Hehe.
Reading the regs might make it seem like you understand the requirements, but it takes reading the ANPRMs, NPRMs, Final Rule preambles, responses to petitions, and any applicable official and past internal interpretations to really understand the situation.
Tell that to your average design engineer.
If responding to a picture I've posted: please, provide constructive criticism. Destructive criticism can go take a flying leap.
If we don't know what could be improved or could have been done differently, we'll never know how to get better at what we're doing.
A backup camera would be nice, but I'm sure the bride would understand since you're just starting out.
Dude, your photos rock! I think you're ready and believe you should up your price from $300 to $750. It's more money and then they have to send you a 1099C form!
Zackwww.zackjonesphotography.net
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A backup camera would be nice, but I'm sure the bride would understand since you're just starting out.
Dude, your photos rock! I think you're ready and believe you should up your price from $300 to $750. It's more money and then they have to send you a 1099C form!
Thanks!
I really want to up it to $750, but I need to actually do a wedding first, then I'll go from there to see if I even want to do another wedding. I know they can be extremely stressful, even though the photog is only in charge of one thing throughout the entire day.
I think I'm gonna get a 40D and then some L glass... thats my next major equipment move. but that wont be for hella long time from now.
Wedding People on here, Do you use a tripod at all? or do you use a monopod? combo of the two? I'm going to be buying a monopod soon because I don't have one, and I need to get a new tripod cause mine's an el cheapo from best buy.
A backup camera would be nice, but I'm sure the bride would understand since you're just starting out.
...
Ah, but will she understand if the thing breaks half way through....
Up front, she'll agree (maybe), but if she doesn't get what she's after because the camera failed, she's _not_ going to be happy.
Like I said before: give it a go, but I'd take it a little slower and more surely. Part of what you're doing with this is to make relationships that will derive more business. Make sure you treat the customer as well as possible to improve the relationship.
If responding to a picture I've posted: please, provide constructive criticism. Destructive criticism can go take a flying leap.
If we don't know what could be improved or could have been done differently, we'll never know how to get better at what we're doing.
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I'll try $750 and if people won't pay then whatever I'll lower it some. $750 would be really nice to have right now...
I suggest that you really need some experience shooting weddings before you jump in solo. Check with other local pros and see if they need a second shooter. They might be able to give you invaluable advice and hints that you would find painfully working on your own. They would also probably pay you for the service.
I really suggest you reconsider offering your services before you are truly ready. Going to an event with only a consumer camera and a single decent lens could be counter productive to the good name you hope to establish. More importantly is your lack of experience.
Everybody has to start somewhere, but you need to start in a situation that could be less disastrous if:
The camera fails.
The lens fails.
The flash fails.
A working pro understands the need for redundancy. At present I don't see any redundancy in your kit. If something happens you must have a backup and a plan because you may have literally a couple of seconds to react before you lose valuable shots. Just imagine the value of the lost shots to a bride and groom.
Years ago, a friend of mine was working with 2 medium format Mamiya cameras, and he had recently had one of them serviced just before the wedding. Although he did his usual equipment check, the recently serviced camera did not sync with the flash and all of the images from that camera were ruined. Although he could ultimately prove that the fault was not his, he was still liable. He wound up flying some of the wedding party in at his expense and re-shooting the formals at a later date. He lost a lot of money in the deal but stayed out of court.
In 2004 I had 2 cameras fail during the formals at a wedding I was doing for a cousin. Fortunately I had 6 cameras with me as it was an out-of-state event. I was able to complete with a backup (film) camera.
When you agree to shoot an important event like a wedding you also agree to be responsible for the success of your shoot. Be careful what you promise.
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Some of the photographers on here use XTI's for wedding stuff. and the XSi is better than that. I think it will be ok. Also I dont have the money to buy a spare camera right now, which is why I'm offering my services so I can make enough money to buy the 5D markII. And by then I'll have enough money to buy extras of things like lenses, tripods, flashes.
I know what I'm doing, I've been trying to get things going for 3 months now. I've been buying stuff over that time. People have seen my work, and have asked me to do their photos. I can't tell them no, because I need the money.
It may seem like I dont know anything to you guys on here because I'm asking so many questions. I'm asking to find out what you know about the subjects so I can learn more from that. I've been reading Strobist and other websites like that, and I know this stuff, I'm just a poor photographer trying to get advice.
To those that gave me good advice that will help me further my business: thank you. To those that tell me not to do anything till I have more equipment than I need at this moment:
I appreciate your enthusiasm, and I'm in a somewhat similar boat (trying to start a photog co), <and i="" _do_="" like="" sarcasm...="" wait="" for="" it...="">, but....
Do you know _any_ pros in your area? Ask if you can work their next wedding. If they don't want to do it (i.e.: no need for an extra expense), offer to do the first one for free to see if they like your support. (hmm... I may have to follow this advice myself. Why couldn't I think of it until I started trying to offer advice? Darn!)
I myself will probably do a wedding on Halloween this year, so I need to get some practice before doing it. I do _not_ like the idea of walking into what someone considers "the most important day of my life!" and screwing it up.
If you do decide to do this, make sure it's:
a) someone who you don't otherwise know
b) someone who doesn't know anyone you know
c) someone who doesn't even return Costco merchandise they don't like
d) someone who's not vocal. Or loud. Or both.
e) someone who doesn't know any lawyers
f) someone who's doesn't have the money/inclination to hire lawyers they don't know (you think you've got no money now?!?)
See, I told you I liked sarcasm.<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/rolleyes1.gif" border="0" alt="" >
More seriously: this is serious poop. You've got some nice shots on your portfolio, and I've no doubt you'll be good at wedding photography. Just get some experience with smaller risks to get it going! Once you're past that, then move on. Plan for a longer term ramp-up.
Heck, if you can find one of those pros (or near pros) who've done weddings before, and you guys get along, and you've worked a couple of their gigs: ask if they'd be willing to be support for you on your first gig! They might take you up on it </and>(likely? depends on your relationship)<and i="" _do_="" like="" sarcasm...="" wait="" for="" it...="">, and then you're covered and will still get your name out there and more recent portfolio shots, too.
(side note to a long post: I've a couple of buddies who do weddings who related a story of the time the "main" guy was shooting and missed the kiss (of "you may kiss the bride" fame). You can imagine the gut wrenching feeling for him as he ran up to his "backup" and asked (urgently), "Did you get the kiss?!?!?" Luckily!)
So: I wish you good luck, but don't count on using it.
(sarcasm really on here) And do a horiz flip on your avatar, will ya?!? Yer killin' me!
</and>
NTWPhotos.com
Member, Livingston County Photographers Group (http://livcophotographers.com)
If responding to a picture I've posted: please, provide constructive criticism. Destructive criticism can go take a flying leap.
If we don't know what could be improved or could have been done differently, we'll never know how to get better at what we're doing.
Those shots arent even my good ones. Those are all candids pretty much. especially the ones that aren't in my portfolio gallery.
Well, theres only one person that I can think of, that MIGHT let me join her. but she already has a second shooter... Her husband. I work with her so I bet she would let me. She's no pro obviously, if she was pro she wouldn't have to work elsewhere.
My first wedding gig, probably wont be for a while anyways, so I have plenty of time to get better, and memorize things that HAVE to be done right, and practice it over and over again to the point that I can't mess up. Like I said, I'm going to get a book on weddings, and also a book on poses, which should help me more.
I've been trying to figure out the best way to jump start my "business". I cant seem to find anything on whether or not I personally need a "business license". Turns out theres no such thing as a "business license" its just other licenses that make you eligible to do business with customers and charge sales tax legally. I've read pretty much the entire Wisconsin state legislature website on business stuff, and I can't find anything.
So, professional photographers on here (I know you're there): do you have business licenses, or do you just write up your taxes at the end of the year and file a C form and count it as additional income.
If anyone has legal knowledge on Wisconsin state "business licensing", I could use some help. I'm away at school from September to mid December then go back early January, then get done in mid may. so, while I'm gone I wont be doing "business". Working for that Photography Major...
I don't know about Wisconsin, but in California business licensing is done through the county seat. I got all the info from my county's web site.
So, you had to get a license? What photography do you do if you dont mind my asking?
Don't know about WI, but many (CA in particular) states share their tax returns with the locals. If you file a Schedule C and don't have that "License" you'll get a nastygram with a bill.
As noted above, you'll need to check with your County and/or City to see if they require this piece of your hide.
All photos are Copyrighted and Registered. Please don't use without permission.
5DSR 16-35 2.8L III 24-70 2.8L II 70-200 2.8L IS II
On the "starting a business" side of things, anybody have any comments on the following?
Does anyone know about filing a "Doing Business As" type document? My county (I think. State?) requires it, and the cost is only like $10 every 5 years. (We had to do it for the photo group I'm treasurer of, but our President pretty much did it all 'cuz I was too new/inexperienced to know what to do). I think this is required (by the county, but also by the bank in order for them to keep legalities) in order to have people write checks to you by the company's name.
I've also heard setting up an LLC is a proper thing to do and that it's maybe 30 minutes on the phone and $75 (or something; it's been a while since I talked about it with anyone). There is apparently some sort of tax benefit in this? (like your company buys the stuff you would otherwise have bought as yourself, and you can show income vs. expenses and keep the taxes lower.) (I once heard there is a requirement to at least break even once every 3 years or something? Anyone ever hear of this?)
Thanks!
(I've got to get on this stuff again, now that I have a little seed money to put toward it...)
NTWPhotos.com
Member, Livingston County Photographers Group (http://livcophotographers.com)
If responding to a picture I've posted: please, provide constructive criticism. Destructive criticism can go take a flying leap.
If we don't know what could be improved or could have been done differently, we'll never know how to get better at what we're doing.
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
Disclaimer: I am not a tax professional - this is simply my personal understanding and experience. Your mileage - and personal circumstances - may vary, so consult an accountant or other tax professional for authoritative answers!
I think you'll find this is a Schedule C (self-employed/sub-contractor) thing (it applies to me as a self-employed singer): if are claiming expenses an activity on professional grounds, you need to show a profit or at least break even every 3 years otherwise the deductions are considered "hobby". Most importantly, it's a huge FAT red flag for audits.
All that said, if you are CLEARLY a professional and simply showing a loss, then you're good to go. For instance, early in my singing career I showed a loss for I think 5 years, but my accountant wasn't worried at all because although I had a ton of expenses which created the "loss" against the lower fees I was then taking, I was actively performing across the year, a member of the union, had an agent etc etc. These kinds of things serve in the IRS's eyes to prove that you are indeed a working professional and not a wannabee/hobbyist who's claiming only to cut their tax obligation. A singer with a full-time employee-based "day job" who only got paid to sing once a year but was still claiming all coachings/clothes/recording equipment/music expenses etc etc would have a much tougher time proving it was a legit "business".
Again, YMMV - just my personal experience!
I would think they would be more happy you're even reporting that you had other income, instead of not reporting it at all.
Also, if I were to consult a tax professional and/or accountant. would they charge me for their advice? again with the low budget... dont have the money to pay for that service right now.
See previous disclaimer
Schedule C is for non-employee income, ie self-employed, subcontracter work. The first $600 (as of the last time I checked - haven't done 2008 yet) is typically tax exempt.
I don't know how most accountants work as far as consultations; you'd have to ask in your area. Try to find somebody familiar with this type of work so they have a handle on all the specific deductions which are normally allowable. Also, I'm sure if you google around online there will be some information to further clarify the basic information regarding DBA and Schedule C filing (not least of which at the IRS site http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/selfemployed/index.html)
Here's one blurb which sets out the broad definitions fairly clearly:
http://taxes.about.com/od/taxglossary/g/BusinessIncome.htm
Definition: An individual person, conducting business as an independent contractor or as a sole proprietor, reports the income and expenses of the business activity on a Schedule C. Any type of business activity can be reported on a Schedule except for farming (Schedule F) and rental activities (Schedule E). On the Schedule C, the individual reports total business income from all sources, reports various types of business expenses, and calculates the net profit or loss for the business. The net profit or loss is carried to Form 1040, line 12. As a self-employed person, the individual must also calculate the Self-Employment Tax using Schedule SE. The IRS may consider a business to be a hobby if the business continues to lose money year after year. Generally, the IRS will use a rule of thumb to determine if a business is a hobby: if a business loses money in 3 out of 5 years, then it may be a hobby. If the IRS determines your business is really a hobby, then your Schedule C loss will be disallowed. Any profit from your hobby is included as "Other Income" on Form 1040, line 21. Any loss from a hobby is not reported on your tax return.
My first wedding was gift to a friend. The next one I charged $600. And then raised my prices for subsequent weddings. Study up on wedding photography, but if you think you have what it takes, go for it. As long as the couple understands they are getting a good price because of your inexperience at wedding photography, and you prepare yourself, you'll probably be okay. You have to start somewhere. Yes it would be great to start as a second shooter, but if that's not a possibility, I don't think that means you can never try it.
FYI, you could rent a back up camera.
Caroline
DING! I can borrow cameras from my work. HA! I completely forgot about that! They told me when I first started that they would if I needed one. heck, I'm gonna borrow one of them new 5D mark ii's we got in! if they'll let me
I am a CPA and this is not meant as tax advice for any one person, but is instead general info:
Don't you people read the tax code? That's for you Jeremy
Whether you plan on making photography a "business" with a profit motive or not, If you think you'll ever make any money from selling yourself or your photos, keep track of your expenses and equipment purchases.
In general, if you have $400 or more of net earnings (that's the JPEG, not the Raw file) from this type of business/hobby you are required to report the income. Reporting the expenses side is up to you. The $600 amount that is commonly thrown out there is the level that someone would be required to send you a 1099. If you receive a 1099, report the income! Offset it if you can/want to, but report it.
LLC's are popular because they are so easy to create. That doesn't mean they are better or more appropriate. There is no such thing as an LLC federal tax return.... If you don't know why that is or what that means, you need tax advice if you think an LLC is what you want.
Will a CPA charge you for advice? Depends. If you're just being lazy and want a piece of my/our time instead of trying to figure it out yourself, you betcha. Need that info during tax season when I'm working 110-120 hours a week? You betcha. Questions that show that you put in an effort, probably not, unless you are asking something that requires more than general information. I/we want you to succeed because we want your business.
Lead us on, make us think you've got what it takes to be successful. You'd be surprised how much help you can get.
Now go make money!
All photos are Copyrighted and Registered. Please don't use without permission.
5DSR 16-35 2.8L III 24-70 2.8L II 70-200 2.8L IS II
Filing a DBA and/or Trade Name registration is normally only required when you're using a DBA or a trade name. If your name is Nate W and you're doing business as Nate W, Photographer, there's no DBA/Trade Name there.
Michigan (the State) does not register trade names. It's up to you to do your best due diligence. Check with your County Clerk, your county does this. If you're forming a business entity, (corp, llc, etc) then check with the Bureau of Commercial Services as part of forming the entity. And yes, you'll need this to be able to open a bank account with that "name".
All photos are Copyrighted and Registered. Please don't use without permission.
5DSR 16-35 2.8L III 24-70 2.8L II 70-200 2.8L IS II
Trust me, I read the tax code. I spent two days going over everything on the IRS website. I dont want to look at another PDF file on taxes for at least a year. yay quicken, makes taxes easy.
Anyways, so basically if I make over $400 this tax year (hopefully will
-Jeremy
Man, I don't know what you're doing, but I'm watching the game
Unless you form some sort of business entity, your millions go on Schedule C. You will only receive a 1099 if someone (one someone) pays you $600 or more. Even then, you're unlikely to receive a 1099 from people paying you to shoot their wedding.
Quicken may make taxes easy, but it doesn't make them right :ivar
All photos are Copyrighted and Registered. Please don't use without permission.
5DSR 16-35 2.8L III 24-70 2.8L II 70-200 2.8L IS II
Hehe.
Reading the regs might make it seem like you understand the requirements, but it takes reading the ANPRMs, NPRMs, Final Rule preambles, responses to petitions, and any applicable official and past internal interpretations to really understand the situation.
Tell that to your average design engineer.
(sorry, work slipped in for a moment...)
NTWPhotos.com
Member, Livingston County Photographers Group (http://livcophotographers.com)
If responding to a picture I've posted: please, provide constructive criticism. Destructive criticism can go take a flying leap.
If we don't know what could be improved or could have been done differently, we'll never know how to get better at what we're doing.
Dude, your photos rock!
EOS 7D, Zeiss 50mm f/1.4, EF 24-70mm f/2.8L, EF 135mm f/2L, EF 200mm f/2.8L II, EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM, EF 1.4 Ext II, 430EX, ST-E2, Tamrac Velocity 10X & Expeditioner 7 Bags.
Thanks!
I really want to up it to $750, but I need to actually do a wedding first, then I'll go from there to see if I even want to do another wedding. I know they can be extremely stressful, even though the photog is only in charge of one thing throughout the entire day.
I think I'm gonna get a 40D and then some L glass... thats my next major equipment move. but that wont be for hella long time from now.
Wedding People on here, Do you use a tripod at all? or do you use a monopod? combo of the two? I'm going to be buying a monopod soon because I don't have one, and I need to get a new tripod cause mine's an el cheapo from best buy.
Up front, she'll agree (maybe), but if she doesn't get what she's after because the camera failed, she's _not_ going to be happy.
Like I said before: give it a go, but I'd take it a little slower and more surely. Part of what you're doing with this is to make relationships that will derive more business. Make sure you treat the customer as well as possible to improve the relationship.
NTWPhotos.com
Member, Livingston County Photographers Group (http://livcophotographers.com)
If responding to a picture I've posted: please, provide constructive criticism. Destructive criticism can go take a flying leap.
If we don't know what could be improved or could have been done differently, we'll never know how to get better at what we're doing.