In general, copyright registration is a legal formality intended to make a public record of the basic facts of a particular copyright. However, registration is not a condition of copyright protection. Even though registration is not a requirement for protection, the copyright law provides several inducements or advantages to encourage copyright owners to make registration. Among these advantages are the following:
Registration establishes a public record of the copyright claim.
Before an infringement suit may be filed in court, registration is necessary for works of U.S. origin.
If made before or within 5 years of publication, registration will establish prima facie evidence in court of the validity of the copyright and of the facts stated in the certificate.
If registration is made within 3 months after publication of the work or prior to an infringement of the work, statutory damages and attorney's fees will be available to the copyright owner in court actions. Otherwise, only an award of actual damages and profits is available to the copyright owner.
Registration allows the owner of the copyright to record the registration with the U. S. Customs Service for protection against the importation of infringing copies. For additional information, go to the U.S. Customs and Border Protection website at www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/import. Click on “Intellectual Property Rights
If you plan to persue it further you "should" go through the formalities with these images.
...again...
if you don't want to be taken advantage of....an agreement of some sort should be signed any time you exchange services or images.
Im sure everyone here seeks to advance their craft by posting. I am only advising that venting in a public forum is less than smart. A stealthy private message to a few pros could have answered your question. Dgrin easily "pops" up on google searches and it is surely possible that this thread could be returned by simply "googling" the name of the planner's business.
In your original post you asked how others would handle it.....I answered that....I thought?
In your original post you asked how others would handle it.....I answered that....I thought?
Twice now:D
Yes, I see what you are saying now about the copyrighting. If it's registered within the first 3 months of publication, you'll have other statutory rights that can be awarded in a court proceeding.
Hmmm.
I think it's a toss up really. Not quite sure how I feel about that just yet. At this point, it's just hard for me to imagine needing to do this for images that aren't being published by some type of larger web or literary organization. Meaning, I don't expect to win any awards or anything.
No beef with you man. It's just that your words came off a little harsh. Thanks for chiming in.
Yes, I see what you are saying now about the copyrighting. If it's registered within the first 3 months of publication, you'll have other statutory rights that can be awarded in a court proceeding.
Hmmm.
I think it's a toss up really. Not quite sure how I feel about that just yet. At this point, it's just hard for me to imagine needing to do this for images that aren't being published by some type of larger web or literary organization. Meaning, I don't expect to win any awards or anything.
No beef with you man. It's just that your words came off a little harsh. Thanks for chiming in.
Personally I think asking for more than crediting you for the image by name is also unreasonable.
She asked for images and you provided them...at no cost. Then, in her absentmindedness (no shortage of folks like that) she got the names confused......then tried to correct the mistake, but again flubbed it up. Pointing that mistake out to her shouldn't be that big of a deal....she probably gets that regularly.....but threatening to charge her for photographs you agreed to give her at no charge is a different matter entirely.
In my experience, you will never feel shorted if you charge an appropriate fee up front. If you agree on any other type of "deal", then you have to be willing to take the lump...because it is bound to happen.
Then there is the possibility that you could become interested in wedding photography someday....then there she is....steering clients anywhere but your direction. It's worth thinking about even if you are angry right now.
A close friend of mine hired me to cover social "goings on" for her wedding weekend. 2 days total worth of coverage for which I have been paid.
Another more established photographer (very nice person) covered the actual ceremony and most of the reception.
I made contact with the planner for the future, and when I opened up the photos for viewing, I informed her that there were some nice ones of her doing her job that she might be able to use. She, in turn, requested a short list of 22 photos total that she might use for her website "in preparation for a bridal show" coming up in January.
Obviously, anytime someone with a more established business can help me get more business, I am willing to offer free use of images, with clear stipulation for use. This is what I did in this case.
About a week ago she posted my pics, mixed with the ones she claims she originated, but without credit to me. No name, no link to my site, nothing.
I sent her a nice email requesting she place the credit there as she agreed to do (all documented in a long email thread), and she promised it would be done by the end of the day. One week later, she still has not posted credit (assuming her claim is the end all truth).
In fact, she goes so far as to credit the other photographer, who actually took NONE of the pictures on the page.
Maybe if you actually read the 4 page thread you would've noticed that his business name is Tommy Gun Photos... And that there are many other people that go by tom gun photos, hence why it needs to be changed, googleing either of the two will bring up different photog's...
Logos for your pics
I have an idea...in the future just put your logo on your pictures...like you see on this forum, nicely done...and then they will speak for themselves.
A little logo in the corner with circled C for notice of reserved rights.
And there you have it. No law suites, no bad blood, and no anxiety. All will be happy.
You can always ask for recognition elsewhere in the publication, Internet or otherwise, especially if the pictures are so small that your logo isn't readable, but if that's the case...hmmm...well, that's another thread.
Remember, no one may want you to take pictures, but they all want to see them. Educate yourself like you'll live forever and live like you'll die tomorrow.
I have an idea...in the future just put your logo on your pictures...like you see on this forum, nicely done...and then they will speak for themselves.
A little logo in the corner with circled C for notice of reserved rights.
And there you have it. No law suites, no bad blood, and no anxiety. All will be happy.
You can always ask for recognition elsewhere in the publication, Internet or otherwise, especially if the pictures are so small that your logo isn't readable, but if that's the case...hmmm...well, that's another thread.
Ed, that is a great way of looking at it. Probably what I will take away the most from this thread!
I have an idea...in the future just put your logo on your pictures...like you see on this forum, nicely done...and then they will speak for themselves.
A little logo in the corner with circled C for notice of reserved rights.
And there you have it. No law suites, no bad blood, and no anxiety. All will be happy.
You can always ask for recognition elsewhere in the publication, Internet or otherwise, especially if the pictures are so small that your logo isn't readable, but if that's the case...hmmm...well, that's another thread.
Excellent idea Ed. Obviously you are talking about some kind of watermark, right?
I thought about that, but I wasn't sure of the etiquette involved here, or even if there is one. I need to do more research on the practice of watermarking though. They are often so distracting to me, so my instinct just told me to leave them off. Plus, when she asked for them, she wanted them fairly quickly, so I tried to satisfy that as well.
Excellent idea Ed. Obviously you are talking about some kind of watermark, right?
I thought about that, but I wasn't sure of the etiquette involved here, or even if there is one. I need to do more research on the practice of watermarking though. They are often so distracting to me, so my instinct just told me to leave them off. Plus, when she asked for them, she wanted them fairly quickly, so I tried to satisfy that as well.
This is the thread that never ends!
I know how you feel, been there somewhat myself before....
Personally what I would do is send her an email with the images re attached with your watermark on them. It doesn't have to be huge or distracting, just something that shows ownership. I would already have them already web sized so that she doesn't mess them up by trying to re-size them herself...it looks like that is what has happened with some that are posted.
Let her know that she has made an error in placing your name, also I don't think it would be asking too much if she linked to your website as well, given that you have given her the option to use these images with out compensation....You'll find the longer you deal with people...especially of this type, being calm but firm on your reasoning will be the best in the long run. HTH
I can't resist adding my two cents to this thread...
First, her site is hopeless. I wouldn't want to be associated with it. Second, you agreed to let her use the images so there's not much you can do about it now. Third, add a nice watermark - it's not whether she would like images without a watermark or not - you're the photographer, you decide.
Back to the hopeless part - her crappy website imparts a feeling of crappy photos to the images on that site (not a criticism of the photos), so know that when you let other people present your images, you have very little to say about how they present those images.
This took me about two seconds, so no critiques needed... but, imho, this protects your brand (assuming this is your image) and prevents someone else from inadvertently diluting your brand - either because they don't know any better or because their sense of style is as bad as the one exhibited by that webpage...!
I like what he threw together, but I would change it so that the copyright information (photog name, etc...) is in the white border, and then make the bottom of the white border a little taller. Heres an example with one of my photos. I'm going to do this to all of the photos that I post from now on.
I'll also use this format when I allow the use of my photos for free. AKA people wanting to put it on a social networking site like facebook or myspace. Or crazy wedding planners wanting to put it on their website. hehe
This is where you can learn to make a frame like what I have in Photoshop. Straight from Dgrin itself!
Thanks everyone for all the fantastic ideas. I will definitely be using them in the future.
I really like the idea of resubmitting the photos to her, although that may just make her angry at the whole situation (she may already be, I hope to never know). But for the future, this is a very important lesson learned.
Thanks again everybody!
Danbrew:
Yes! That is my photo, allbeit, the apparently unedited one. Once again, I gave her specific instructions on that as well. Very simple, "use this folder, not that one" type of statement. I guess there are some folks who just can't get past some things.
I like what he threw together, but I would change it so that the copyright information (photog name, etc...) is in the white border, and then make the bottom of the white border a little taller. Heres an example with one of my photos. I'm going to do this to all of the photos that I post from now on.
I'll also use this format when I allow the use of my photos for free. AKA people wanting to put it on a social networking site like facebook or myspace. Or crazy wedding planners wanting to put it on their website. hehe
Just as an FYI - if you think for 2 seconds that's going to stop a MySpace kid from using your photo without credit you're out of your mind.
This took exactly 4 seconds with the built-in windows tools:
(Posted small to make a point and I will remove at your request.)
The ONLY way to be sure that your information sticks around is to put it on the picture itself and in a place where it cannot easily be cloned out.
Just as an FYI - if you think for 2 seconds that's going to stop a MySpace kid from using your photo without credit you're out of your mind.
This took exactly 4 seconds with the built-in windows tools:
(Posted small to make a point and I will remove at your request.)
The ONLY way to be sure that your information sticks around is to put it on the picture itself and in a place where it cannot easily be cloned out.
True, but thats no different than the other guy's border. And if they do that you can always request them to change it. Its not that hard to check up on clients myspace profiles. Plus, the thing about my border, is that its not as obnoxious as danbrew's giant grey border. idk, do you understand what I'm getting at.
nah I dont mind, go ahead and take all the credit for my picture, its really ok with me . but seriously, if you do I'll be seeing you in court .
I was going over this very issue with a friend the other day and mentioned this experience. The lady ended up in the news this week due to some city permit issues for a new location she owns. "Dream Job" kind of thing... kudos for her, this thread clearly has not hurt her business.
But now, not only is she using my photos without proper credit, she's using many other photos with no apparent credit at all. Unfortunately, I can't link to them, but they are clearly visible in the "wedding planning" section of this new site.
Comments
If you plan to persue it further you "should" go through the formalities with these images.
...again...
if you don't want to be taken advantage of....an agreement of some sort should be signed any time you exchange services or images.
Im sure everyone here seeks to advance their craft by posting. I am only advising that venting in a public forum is less than smart. A stealthy private message to a few pros could have answered your question. Dgrin easily "pops" up on google searches and it is surely possible that this thread could be returned by simply "googling" the name of the planner's business.
In your original post you asked how others would handle it.....I answered that....I thought?
Twice now:D
Jeff
-Need help with Dgrin?; Wedding Photography Resources
-My Website - Blog - Tips for Senior Portraiture
Yes, I see what you are saying now about the copyrighting. If it's registered within the first 3 months of publication, you'll have other statutory rights that can be awarded in a court proceeding.
Hmmm.
I think it's a toss up really. Not quite sure how I feel about that just yet. At this point, it's just hard for me to imagine needing to do this for images that aren't being published by some type of larger web or literary organization. Meaning, I don't expect to win any awards or anything.
No beef with you man. It's just that your words came off a little harsh. Thanks for chiming in.
www.tompyron.com
Yellow Footprint Films - A motion picture production effort that focuses on military content
Personally I think asking for more than crediting you for the image by name is also unreasonable.
She asked for images and you provided them...at no cost. Then, in her absentmindedness (no shortage of folks like that) she got the names confused......then tried to correct the mistake, but again flubbed it up. Pointing that mistake out to her shouldn't be that big of a deal....she probably gets that regularly.....but threatening to charge her for photographs you agreed to give her at no charge is a different matter entirely.
In my experience, you will never feel shorted if you charge an appropriate fee up front. If you agree on any other type of "deal", then you have to be willing to take the lump...because it is bound to happen.
Then there is the possibility that you could become interested in wedding photography someday....then there she is....steering clients anywhere but your direction. It's worth thinking about even if you are angry right now.
Jeff
-Need help with Dgrin?; Wedding Photography Resources
-My Website - Blog - Tips for Senior Portraiture
No offense meant, but why dont you read the website? It clearly says:
Photographer II: Tom Gun Photos.
and as for Jeremy Cavness, it also says :
Photographer: Jeremy Cavness (Photos Not Posted Yet!).
There you have it, straight from the horses mouth, as it were.
One late wedding planner, not quite worth a four page thread. :P
I have an idea...in the future just put your logo on your pictures...like you see on this forum, nicely done...and then they will speak for themselves.
A little logo in the corner with circled C for notice of reserved rights.
And there you have it. No law suites, no bad blood, and no anxiety. All will be happy.
You can always ask for recognition elsewhere in the publication, Internet or otherwise, especially if the pictures are so small that your logo isn't readable, but if that's the case...hmmm...well, that's another thread.
Educate yourself like you'll live forever and live like you'll die tomorrow.
Ed
Ed, that is a great way of looking at it. Probably what I will take away the most from this thread!
Thanks!
Excellent idea Ed. Obviously you are talking about some kind of watermark, right?
I thought about that, but I wasn't sure of the etiquette involved here, or even if there is one. I need to do more research on the practice of watermarking though. They are often so distracting to me, so my instinct just told me to leave them off. Plus, when she asked for them, she wanted them fairly quickly, so I tried to satisfy that as well.
www.tompyron.com
Yellow Footprint Films - A motion picture production effort that focuses on military content
She allowed them on other pictures on her site ( http://www.onefinedaynwa.com/favorites.html ) so it likely would not have been an issue.
http://wolftep.smugmug.com/
I know how you feel, been there somewhat myself before....
Personally what I would do is send her an email with the images re attached with your watermark on them. It doesn't have to be huge or distracting, just something that shows ownership. I would already have them already web sized so that she doesn't mess them up by trying to re-size them herself...it looks like that is what has happened with some that are posted.
Let her know that she has made an error in placing your name, also I don't think it would be asking too much if she linked to your website as well, given that you have given her the option to use these images with out compensation....You'll find the longer you deal with people...especially of this type, being calm but firm on your reasoning will be the best in the long run. HTH
First, her site is hopeless. I wouldn't want to be associated with it. Second, you agreed to let her use the images so there's not much you can do about it now. Third, add a nice watermark - it's not whether she would like images without a watermark or not - you're the photographer, you decide.
Back to the hopeless part - her crappy website imparts a feeling of crappy photos to the images on that site (not a criticism of the photos), so know that when you let other people present your images, you have very little to say about how they present those images.
This took me about two seconds, so no critiques needed... but, imho, this protects your brand (assuming this is your image) and prevents someone else from inadvertently diluting your brand - either because they don't know any better or because their sense of style is as bad as the one exhibited by that webpage...!
I'll also use this format when I allow the use of my photos for free. AKA people wanting to put it on a social networking site like facebook or myspace. Or crazy wedding planners wanting to put it on their website. hehe
This is where you can learn to make a frame like what I have in Photoshop. Straight from Dgrin itself!
Make a Frame in Photoshop
I really like the idea of resubmitting the photos to her, although that may just make her angry at the whole situation (she may already be, I hope to never know). But for the future, this is a very important lesson learned.
Thanks again everybody!
Danbrew:
Yes! That is my photo, allbeit, the apparently unedited one. Once again, I gave her specific instructions on that as well. Very simple, "use this folder, not that one" type of statement. I guess there are some folks who just can't get past some things.
www.tompyron.com
Yellow Footprint Films - A motion picture production effort that focuses on military content
Just as an FYI - if you think for 2 seconds that's going to stop a MySpace kid from using your photo without credit you're out of your mind.
This took exactly 4 seconds with the built-in windows tools:
(Posted small to make a point and I will remove at your request.)
The ONLY way to be sure that your information sticks around is to put it on the picture itself and in a place where it cannot easily be cloned out.
True, but thats no different than the other guy's border. And if they do that you can always request them to change it. Its not that hard to check up on clients myspace profiles. Plus, the thing about my border, is that its not as obnoxious as danbrew's giant grey border. idk, do you understand what I'm getting at.
nah I dont mind, go ahead and take all the credit for my picture, its really ok with me
http://www.creekwoodgardens.com/
But now, not only is she using my photos without proper credit, she's using many other photos with no apparent credit at all. Unfortunately, I can't link to them, but they are clearly visible in the "wedding planning" section of this new site.
www.tompyron.com
Yellow Footprint Films - A motion picture production effort that focuses on military content