Watermark Thoughts.

Shark

I was wondering if all you SmugMuggers out there would be able to lend me a hand? I am going to apply a watermark to all my photos, and I'd like to know what everybody thinks about it. Is it too dark, is it too light, does it look OK? I've got the same watermark on three different photos so a comparison could be made to a lighter photo, and a darker photo.
The photos aren't up to be critiqued, but if you'd like to speak your mind about them, be my guest.
Thanks.

Shark

Prezwoodz

With the photo's you posted I think the watermark works fine because they are really light backgrounds. If it was a dark background I think it would be really overpowering. Personally I have never liked giant centered watermarks because I think it doesn't allow you to get a real feel for the photo.

Do you want them to look at your watermark or at your picture?

W.W. Webster

What photos?

j-bo

It depends on what you are trying to accomplish.

If you are trying to prevent theft of your photo's, unfortunately a big fat ugly watermark usually deters the them. I have not had any less sales because of this big ugly thing, but theft has been reduced to almost nil.

If you are just wanting your website on the photo, then something in the lower corner works well.

Here is my "for theft" watermark:




And for my sharing photo's watermark.. although I need to make it a little bit smaller:

Shark

Shark wrote:

I was wondering if all you SmugMuggers out there would be able to lend me a hand? I am going to apply a watermark to all my photos, and I'd like to know what everybody thinks about it. Is it too dark, is it too light, does it look OK? I've got the same watermark on three different photos so a comparison could be made to a lighter photo, and a darker photo.
The photos aren't up to be critiqued, but if you'd like to speak your mind about them, be my guest.
Thanks.

Shark

I don't know what happened here. The photos were up on the Forum when I was at work, now I get home and they're not there. I had alot of trouble getting photos to upload on to the Forum. I don't know what was wrong.

W.W. Webster

Shark wrote:

I don't know what happened here.

Did you move or replace the images in the gallery, or uncheck the external links option, perhaps? Something has changed!

W.W. Webster

The third image appeared, then disappeared again. Is the 'hide' box checked?

TonyCooper

Your images don't show for me, but the subject of watermarks is much on my mind of late.

I find it extremely distracting and annoying when someone posts an image in a forum for C&C and the image is covered with a watermark. If you want your image critiqued or commented on, don't add a watermark that either obscures part of the image or can be taken for something in the image that should have been cloned out. There's an example of a watermark that looks like a composition error in the "Other Cool Shots" forum that I've just commented on.

If you are submitting proofs to a client, and you don't want them scanning your proof and getting free photos, a watermark is quite in order. It doesn't make sense, though, when submitting to a forum.

I can say this without insulting you because your images didn't appear, but I see very few watermarked images by amateurs that would be stolen for commercial use without the watermark.

Shark

W.W. Webster wrote:

Did you move or replace the images in the gallery, or uncheck the external links option, perhaps? Something has changed!

I don't believe I've checked or unchecked any of those boxes since I came home from work. My last post I said that the photos had disappeared from the thread, after I got home from work. But now as I get on, they have re-appeared. I can't explain it, so I'm just going to roll with it.

Shark

W.W. Webster wrote:

The third image appeared, then disappeared again. Is the 'hide' box checked?

No, the "hide" box isn't checked. I've been screwing around adding watermarks to different galleries. That's the only thing I can think of that could have goofed up these images temporarily. I can't explain what happened, but I'm guessing that's the reason why.

Shark

?????

TonyCooper wrote:

Your images don't show for me, but the subject of watermarks is much on my mind of late.

I find it extremely distracting and annoying when someone posts an image in a forum for C&C and the image is covered with a watermark. If you want your image critiqued or commented on, don't add a watermark that either obscures part of the image or can be taken for something in the image that should have been cloned out. There's an example of a watermark that looks like a composition error in the "Other Cool Shots" forum that I've just commented on.

If you are submitting proofs to a client, and you don't want them scanning your proof and getting free photos, a watermark is quite in order. It doesn't make sense, though, when submitting to a forum.

I can say this without insulting you because your images didn't appear, but I see very few watermarked images by amateurs that would be stolen for commercial use without the watermark.

I did not post these images here for C&C, as was clearly explained in my opening post. I was looking for some input about my watermark. I asked what everybody thought about it. Was it too light, too dark, just right, etc. I even pointed out that the photos weren't put up to be critiqued, actually the watermark was. I did say at the end that if you wanted to say something about my photos, feel free to do so. My thinking was that the best way for people to comment on a watermark, was to show it on a photo. This post may not be in the right place, but I made it clear from the start what I was looking for. I'm sorry that it appears to have annoyed you. That was not my intention.

sportsshooter06

I have always been against placing watermarks on photos, however, i have been reading more posts on different forums, including Sportsshooter, that taking photos is the method of the day. I am now marking all photos, if this stops someone from using a copyrighted shot, without authorization, then it is the right thing to do.

My photography is almost entirely for publication and editorial, i do not want illegal use. if someone does not "buy" a photo because of the "watermark" that is there memory lost.

Shark

sportsshooter06 wrote:

I have always been against placing watermarks on photos, however, i have been reading more posts on different forums, including Sportsshooter, that taking photos is the method of the day. I am now marking all photos, if this stops someone from using a copyrighted shot, without authorization, then it is the right thing to do.

My photography is almost entirely for publication and editorial, i do not want illegal use. if someone does not "buy" a photo because of the "watermark" that is there memory lost.

I agree totally with your last sentence. If a person doesn't want to buy a photo because of the watermark, it is their memory lost, at least the memory that was created through my eye. There are some people locally, where I live, who want things free. Some feel "well, it's a photo of my son or daughter, so there's no reason he will want to keep it. He'll probably give it to me if I ask". It doesn't always work like that. There are times I will give a photo to a friend, but we've all got to pay for our equipment and our time. There's not many services offered for free anymore. And since I shoot local sporting events, and many people know about my websites, I felt a watermark was a good way to keep people from hijacking my photos. I hope it works. I found out earlier this week how easy it is for someone to steal a photo that they are initially blocked from taking, by right clicking on it. If it's a smaller photo, they won't be able to get it full size, but they are still able to take your property and put it on their computer. I was shocked when I saw how easy it is. I was happy to see that here at SmugMug, that particular way of theft is thwarted. That just adds another reason to why I love this site. Hopefully by watermarking, stealing won't be as easy to do. Thanks for sending me your thoughts on the topic. Part of me was beginning to think maybe the consensus would be against watermarks.

Shark

TonyCooper

Shark wrote:

I did not post these images here for C&C, as was clearly explained in my opening post. I was looking for some input about my watermark. I asked what everybody thought about it. Was it too light, too dark, just right, etc. I even pointed out that the photos weren't put up to be critiqued, actually the watermark was. I did say at the end that if you wanted to say something about my photos, feel free to do so. My thinking was that the best way for people to comment on a watermark, was to show it on a photo. This post may not be in the right place, but I made it clear from the start what I was looking for. I'm sorry that it appears to have annoyed you. That was not my intention.

You did not annoy me. As I very clearly stated, I have not seen your photos. They were not visible when I posted, and still are not.

Shark

I can't figure out why either. Sometimes they are there, then the next time I come on, they don't show. I haven't done anything to my site since last night, and they're still popping on and off the Forum.
At the moment, it appears as though my second photo isn't showing up. It was put on just like the other two. Let's see if it shows up in this post.

Shark

I think I'm going to stop trying to post photos on the Forum. It should be a simple process, but I'm messing it up somehow. It's blowing my mind.

Shark

Now that second photo is showing. Is Allen Funt going to come out from behind the curtains any second now? I feel like I'm on Candid Camera.

j-bo

Shark wrote:

I think I'm going to stop trying to post photos on the Forum. It should be a simple process, but I'm messing it up somehow. It's blowing my mind.

Why? It IS a simple process.

I propose you make a seperate gallery just for postinig photo's on forums.

Customize your gallery like so:

Check the box that allows external linking.
Check the box that allows easy sharing.

That's all you have to do.

Then go to your photo you want to post, click on "sharing", then "get a link". Copy the link (in smugmug, you just click on the link and it's automatically copied), go to your forum post, click on the "image" and insert the link you copied from in the url box and poof, you're done.

I was happy to see that here at SmugMug, that particular way of theft is thwarted

That keeps the honest, honest. But don't be fooled, it (right click protection) is easily "thwarted". If someone wants it, they can get it. But not many want it with a big ol fat ugly watermark on it.

TonyCooper

Shark wrote:

I can't figure out why either. Sometimes they are there, then the next time I come on, they don't show. I haven't done anything to my site since last night, and they're still popping on and off the Forum.
At the moment, it appears as though my second photo isn't showing up. It was put on just like the other two. Let's see if it shows up in this post.

I'm laughing, but with you, not at you. I have never seen your photographs. They have not appeared anytime I've read this thread.

I suggest you set up a SmugMug gallery that is private and password protected and use that to link "test" photos. People opening your SmugMug site will not know this gallery exists. (I have one, and it's easy to do)

I tried to be very clear in my comments about watermarking that I do understand the use by photographers who sell, or intend to sell, their work. I do not understand the use by amateurs who post in forums strictly for C&C. I don't know which group you are in.

Trawl through some of the forums and you will see photos obscured by watermarks that are photos that would never be "stolen" because of either the subject matter or the quality. I could provide examples, but that would be unkind.

I'm responding to the subject of watermarks in general, and not your specific use of watermarks.

Shark

You know, I never thought of making a seperate gallery that is password protected for just posting photos. That sounds pretty obvious to me now. I'll try that.

I really only apply the watermarks to the galleries of photos that I take at sporting events. The parents, players, and fans can then go to my site, check out the photos, and let me know what they would like to order. And if there is a way to get my right click protected photos from my SmugMug gallery, I guess for now, I'll have to deal with it, but they will have to live with my watermark on it, unless they can get rid of that too. It's just one more step in trying to protect my photos a little better. I'm not the best photographer out there by a long shot, but I do make a decent amount of sales, and now, hopefully my game photos are protected a little better.

About the right click protection, I learned this week how it can be bypassed. I went to a friend's website and did it. I then sent him an e-mail with the photo attached, asking him something about the shot. He was shocked that I sent him his photo, and asked how I got it. But the procedure I learned, doesn't work on SmugMug because the right click block doesn't pop up on the screen until you let go of the right click. I'm sure there are probably other ways to do it, but I don't know what they are.

The rest of my galleries are for viewing of my photographs, so I don't watermark them. I do have the right click protection enabled though. When someone wants to purchase my other work, they get in touch with me and place an order. I'm hoping that the protection SmugMug offers will keep people from stealing any of my other photos, even if all they want them for, are their computer.

I'm going to try your suggestion with the new gallery. Check back in a little while.
Thanks.

Shark

TonyCooper

If you make the new gallery "Unlisted", it will not show on your home page. If you add password protection, it will not show on your home page and you will have to include the password in your forum post.

The easiest way for forum viewers to see selected photographs is to just make it an unlisted gallery and not use the password protection.

This gives you a way to show test shots in a forum without confusing the people who visit your gallery for other purposes.

Shark

OK here goes.
I made a new Forum Photo Posting Gallery. Hopefully, below are a couple photos with my new watermark on them. I was wondering if I could get everybody's input about this watermark. Too dark, too light, just right, whatever.
Thanks.

Shark

TonyCooper

Congratulations. The images appear in the forum. I checked your home page, and the gallery they are from does not appear to me as a Visitor.

Frog Lady

fwiw - your watermark has it's goods and bads.

Good - from the point of teenagers wanting to use your image on their my space or facebook sites, it can't be cropped out.
Bad - if they choose to use it, it doesn't necessarily lead back to you. In other words, if some one saw your picture on one of the kids sites, they wouldn't necessarily know who/what "shark" is, let alone know who took the picture.

Good - unique and clever design.
Bad - unique and clever design that is not very prominant and doesn't detract from the image enough (imho)

Bad - given your hockey shots, will the light colored watermark fade into the background too much?

Along the same lines, I would be interested in any one's thoughts on my watermark (again - as much as anything, I'm trying to prevent teenagers from doing a screen grab and want the presence of the watermark to suggest that the shot wasn't purchased, but don't want it to be too obtrusive):





C.

W.W. Webster

Frog Lady wrote:

as much as anything, I'm trying to prevent ... a screen grab and want the presence of the watermark to suggest that the shot wasn't purchased, but don't want it to be too obtrusive

Seems like a good compromise to me.

Many of the watermarks we see on these forums are just plain hideous (and often obscuring very average images IMHO!), but your approach is one that would be suitable for many other posters.

Thanks for adding this to the discussion!

j-bo

Frog Lady...I would have no problem stealing your photo's with that tiny watermark, none at all, and if I didn't mind it, you can bet teens def. won't. I actually had to look twice just to make it out.

As far as big ol ugly watermarks, they serve their purpose. I think most of us know they deter from the image, but it's either that or put up with theft.

Of course, it all depends on your customers too.

In MX we take mostly kids/teens.. well.. I put up with seeing my photo's all over the place. I put the big ol ugly watermark and that eliminated that. Sales didn't suffer one bit either.

Shark........I'd put some reference to your website on your watermark and def. make it a darker font. Your design is pretty dang cool too!

Shark

Thanks for all the replies everybody, I appreciate it.

Frog Lady, you said something about some players taking my photos and putting them on their My Space. With SmugMug's right click protection, can that be done? I know it can be done on other sites where the copyright notice comes up on the screen as soon as you right click on the photo, but that doesn't happen here. I was just wondering if there was another way to steal photos. I like your watermark, and the photos they are on also. Like I said earlier, I am only putting this watermark on photos that I take of sporting events, so people can look through them after their game, and if they like something, they can purchase it. The watermark is there so that they can't steal anything from me without buying it. Is there a way they can take it from my site? Thanks for your input.

j-bo, thank you also for your thoughts and compliments on my watermark. Do you know of a way to steal the photos from my site here at SmugMug?

Frog Lady

Shark wrote:

...you said something about some players taking my photos and putting them on their My Space. With SmugMug's right click protection, can that be done?

yes, it can be done. I've heard, but not done it myself; it apparently involves a screen capture. The mantra goes "if it's on the internet, it can be copied". The originals are safe, but they can get the lower res shots (that's one of the arguements for only enabling viewing up to med or large sizes of your shots on your smugmug site and for making sure your shots are watermarked).

and thanks for your comments on my watermark/photos.

C.

Frog Lady

j-bo wrote:

Frog Lady...I would have no problem stealing your photo's with that tiny watermark, none at all, and if I didn't mind it, you can bet teens def. won't. I actually had to look twice just to make it out.

j-bo - thx for your comments. While I generally like the idea, I had kind of thought that my watermark wasn't obvious enough. I'll work on it some more.

C.

Shark

Frog Lady wrote:

(that's one of the arguements for only enabling viewing up to med or large sizes of your shots on your smugmug site and for making sure your shots are watermarked).



C.

That's the reason I have my galleries set at large. I've thought about changing them to medium, but haven't decided yet.
Do you watermark all your photos, or certain ones? I only watermark the game shots that I shoot, because I know several people will be looking through them not long after the game is over.
Thanks.

Shark

KMCC

The right-click protection that Smugmug offers only deters those with limited computer literacy from taking unauthorized copies of your images for their own use.

I shoot a lot of high school sports. One evening about a year ago, I conducted a search on Facebook using the names of local high schools as my criteria.

It was an eye-opening exercise. I was amazed at the number of my photographs that I found on Facebook pages. I discovered page after page using photographs which had been copied from my Smugmug galleries without my permission. In some cases, individuals were using 5 to 10 photographs on their pages.

Keep in mind, I was only able to see Facebook pages where the owners had made them public. Most Facebook pages are private and can only be seen by "friends" of the page's owner.

Needless to say, I immediately watermarked every image that I have in my galleries on Smugmug.

Quite frankly, there's no way to stop someone intent on getting a copy of your photographs off of Smugmug, but if they copy mine now - at least I'm going to get a little advertising.

By the way, I saw absolutely no negative impact to sales after watermarking my images.

P.S. - I also agree with Frog Lady's earlier comment. My watermark (KentsFotos.com) leads interested folks right back to my website. Watermarks that only say "Proof", "Copyright", etc do not bring any traffic to your website.