Hugely Frustrated!! Why wouldn't they like these??

WingsOfLovePhoto

I just did photos for this little communion girl. After posting 40 pictures to her gallery (though there is more I just didn't finish editing) I thought I would give a sneak peak to the mom. I recieved an email this am where the mom didn't mention anything about the pictures other than asking if there are more with smiles (mostly they were cheesy) and or the dress full length. I didn't feel any emotion from the email so I wrote her back and told her I was still working on the pictures and there were ones with more smiles but that my style (which she knew ahead of time) for communion photos are more solemn and expressive and did she not find any she liked. She said there were a few but that she was disappointed. UGH.... I actually thought they were some good work! Maybe I was just hopeful. Here are a few from the set. On this monitor I am on some of the white seems blown out but on my big calibrated mac they are fine. What do you think of these?

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Xandertures

Clearly this parent has an idea of what she wanted, and it's not realistic or reasonable. You provided EXCELLENT photos in every way shape and form. Great composition, lighting, color saturation and processing. If she doesn't like these, then she won't like anything in my opinion. I don't have any great advice on how resolve the situation, only reassurance that you did everything right on your end. Sometimes you just can't please the customer.

As far as being blown out, there are a few areas of the dress with lost detail on my monitors,.. however it fits the nature of the type of photo you were going for and doesn't take away from anything.

1pocket

These are great! Great lighting, nice mix of poses and point of view, scale and even a variety of props -- I'm scratching my head, too
The only knock I can come up with is that they are relatively straight -- but something tells me that if they were more artistic, she would like them less.

So... can she show you what kind of shots she does like (even if they are not of her daughter), to give you some idea of what to look for in the other shots you have? Maybe she always wished her daughter was blond, like she was when she was a little girl???

sweet caroline

These are lovely. A good variety of props and poses, and very well executed. The girl looks beautiful. It may be that after spending $$$ on that dress the mom may want more full length? I can't understand why she'd be disappointed. I like the solemn expressions, and the sweet smiles you have here, but mom may really love the cheesy grins (which don't seem appropriate to the occasion).

You could offer a reshoot. Ask her if there are any shots in your portfolio that she really likes, and try to replicate them. But wait until she sees all the photos and gives feedback.

There is nothing lacking in the quality of these photos, in my opinion.

Caroline

Matt S

Personally I think they are great. There are several I would happily put in my portfolio were they mine. If you really are concerned I would see if she would come and sit down with you and the photos to outline just what was missing. You may not gain anything from this, but you may gain insight into what may have been missing in communication from one or both of you. Again these are great, but perhaps the issue is not the photographs but the expectations. I wish you luck, and hope this resolves well for you.

ian408

I like them as well. But I'd ask are they what the client asked for? Did you agree to a style of photo before hand?

Mike J

Hey Sandy,

As others have said - there is nothing wrong with these photos. I really like #2 and #3. My only guess is that she had something different in her mind despite seeing your previous work. I like the idea of sitting down with her and having her bring examples of what she likes.

ChatKat

Did you show her your style before you shot and told her what you were going to go after? I learned just like this - the mother wasn't happy because she had unrealistic expectations for the shoot. Now I ask before the shoot what they are expecting and I also chimp and show some of the images (not all) so that I don't have to shoot over.

For these, I would talk to her about your style. These are beautiful and I am not sure that a nother session is in order because there is nothing wrong here except that there wasn't any preshoot communication!

lyttleviet

I think you did a beautiful job capturing her communion.

Scott_Quier

In large, these are great photos and I think you have every reason to be quite proud of them. I see a few very little things here and there, but I don't think they detract from the image to any great extent and I really doubt most clients will. As has been said, you have good exposure, composition, and posing. If this is your style and you communicated that to the client and the client actually looked at your past and similar work, I have to wonder about the client.

But, I think Kathy pretty much nailed it on the head. Communication before and during the photo session are key. For studio portrait sessions I've taken to shooting teathered so the client can see the shots as they come up (or at least the last of a group). This, of course, requires me to educate the client a bit about the difference between SOOC and a finished product, but they can see what's happening and express their concerns at a time when something can be done about it rather than after the fact.

WingsOfLovePhoto

Thanks all so much for the advice and saying you like them... that means alot. I love that you are all here for me But why is it that when you finally are starting to feel comfortable with your abilities and style this kind of thing always happens? I know to a professional there are some issues... I should have put on the hair light and I cut off a few appendages weird but all and all to the unprofessional eye, they should be pretty good... The could've gone to Sears if they just wanted one pose with a cheesy smile. I took alot of time perusing Communion photo's online for ideas and put a lot of thought into having the right props and things to pose with... I am going to be working on others today and will see if she likes all the cheesy smiles better. Also doing another Communion girl today so will take all your advice and ask first...maybe even show her some of these pictures to see if she likes this style before I start shooting. Thanks again dgrinners....

And Scott...what are the nits? You know I always like to know!

Scott_Quier

WingsOfLovePhoto wrote:

And Scott...what are the nits? You know I always like to know!

OK, I was trying to play nice, but you asked for it

1. I like the pose and the light is just about perfectly placed. Exposure - spot on. I'm not so sure about the draping of the background. It's nicely OOF, just not sure I like the wrinkles and the blue cast in the shadows.
2. Not sure where she's looking, but it appears to be slightly to the left of the camera. The pose - well, first impression, and one I still can't shake, is, "Please don't kill me!" Also, I think I would have liked to have seen the camera view pulled back just a bit more from her to get a bit more of the gown in the shot. Move the camera angle down just >< that much - more gown, less headroom at the top - maybe?
3. The elastic holding the arm things down. I think I would have tried to experiment with it - how would the shot look had you removed the elastic from around the finger and tucked it back up under the garment, relying on the the fact that the girl is not going to be moving to ensure that garment stays in place? Cut off elbows.
4. This is a wonderful shot and the "pick of the litter". The nits: the specular highlight from a bobby pin in her hair and the cut off elbows.
5. Again, coming from a background of inexperience in these matters, this looks much too posed. She's in a "praying attitude", with a rosery in her hands - a more contemplative expression would, I believe, look more appropriate.
6. Nice. A little more fill from the left, the elastic (as noted above), and the wrinkles in the background (which may have been intentional) and the blue cast in the shadows of the wrinkles in the background.
7. Her right arm, that little bit of the arm garment (what is that thing called anyway?) on her left arm, cut off at the elbow, a bit more fill from the left would be nice ... not to much, but just a touch, blown section on the gown (how distant/close to the girl is your light source - might want to move it back a touch to better control light fall-off and, thus, hot-spots?).
8. Light to camera right is toooo hot. Seperation of her arm and candle from the background is a real issue here. Same for the bible pages.
9. Again, light fall-off and hot-spot issues. Moving the light source a bit further from the girl (and modifying your exposure setting to compensate) would allow for a more gradual fall-off of the light across the girl and, thereby, help avoid the hotspot. Again, the specular highlight from the bobby-pin in her hair.

In almost all of them, there is little if any detail in the shadow side of her hair. A little light there would have brought her hair to life.

As for what I see as a light fall-off issue ... do you know and understand the inverse-square law of light propagation?

Also, note ... if you pull the light back from your subject, you will get more defined shadows (not usually a good thing) unless you also use a larger light modifier to compensate.

Agnieszka

I agree with everybody, you got some beautiful photos of the girl. I love them

Travis

There is really nothing I can add in addition to what has been said except for my support. I'd love to have these shots in my portfolio. Honestly after reading your post title, I was fully expecting to see a series of butchered shots and was surprised at how great they were. I think we have all been there at one time or another where we have a client that just can't be satisfied. Don't let it bring you down or make you doubt yourself.

jeffreaux2

By my eye these were executed very well, but.....technical prowess isn't the only thing that sells prints.

I have long ago given up on trying to figure why clients choose what they choose.....which....often enough isn't in line with what I might have chosen. Its a mystery to be sure. Rather than try to decipher this...I just make sure to shoot as wide a variety as possible.

I can surely see why you would be proud of these.....but can also understand a mom wanting to see some big cheesy smiles. I wouldnt get myself to banged up about it if you indeed have a handfull with the cheesy smiles for her.

Costanzo

Sandy, I think you did a great job! Other than MINOR detail loss, I would be happy to receive these images. I just got my daughters communion pictures out, to compare (she is 19 now), and I like your work better. I just hope I dont run into this type of situation, but I will use it as a learning lesson for my future work.


Thanks, Rob

barbnjon

This same senario happened to me a while back. Same complaints,etc. I found out indirectly that the proofs were being downloaded then scanned without my approval. Do you have a watermark? After looking at your photos, I discovered that you have full-resolution pics available for downloading. Perhaps this isn't what is happening in this particular situation, but it is something to consider. By the way, love these photos. Beautiful!

rutt

Jeez, they should be happy, really happy. Maybe they will eventually be happy?

Often when you can't figure out why people do what they do, it's because you think it's about you, but really it's about them. Got up on the wrong side of the bed. Overwhelmed after the big event. Had a fight with the spouse. Just a negative hard to please kind of person. You get what I mean.

Look at it that way: I'm OK. What about you? Project confidence and pride in your work. Not everyone has your good taste. Sometimes it's pearls before swine. And sometimes people do come around especially if you don't let them spoil your fun and pride.

divamum

Sandy -

Agree with the others. Within the very specific style that you shoot, they're wonderful (and that's not meant to be "damning with faint praise" but just acknowledging that you DO have a very clear style, and these are absolutely top-notch examples of it!)

The only thing I wonder -and Scott alludes to this in his nit-list - is if rather than "smile" as such, mom perhaps means shots where this young lady is a little more engaged with the camera (in the ones where she's not looking away; perhaps she just had a slightly more energetic kind of capture in mind? Who knows. - if she's seen your work, one would have hoped she knew what she was getting, but who can ever tell what people see vs understand vs want?

I think the shots are lovely, so try not to take Grumpy Client's reaction too hard. I know that in the past when I've had my own promo shots done I have NEVER picked the same ones that the photog had tagged as his/her choices - we were simply looking for different things in the shots. Different strokes and all that!

While your concern over the reaction shows how much you care, don't let it derail you. Remember what they say about opinions.... and everybody has one!

Mitchell

Wonderful photos!

I can only imagine that this is an example of Mom not communicating well to you what she is looking for in these portraits. Perhaps she is more interested in shots of the dress than the lovely portraits you have taken of her daughter.

One thing I do know is that you can't please everyone!

Dave Clee

I tried shooting tethered for the first time last night, had the output displayed to the 37" lcd on the wall in the studio and wow what a difference for me and the model !! Sure its SOOC but once they understand that, I feel its the way to go for me, at least in the studio.

With regards to your photos, honestly I thought they were good.

Having the photos display as you shot them would have helped your client and yourself move towards a set of photos they were hoping to see.

Cheers

Dave

ChatKat

barbnjon wrote:

This same senario happened to me a while back. Same complaints,etc. I found out indirectly that the proofs were being downloaded then scanned without my approval. Do you have a watermark? After looking at your photos, I discovered that you have full-resolution pics available for downloading. Perhaps this isn't what is happening in this particular situation, but it is something to consider. By the way, love these photos. Beautiful!

Bingo! That happend to me also several years ago. She didn't want to order and guess what, all the images had been stolen - I couldn't figure it out. I also had someone "posturing" because I did not give full copyright and only gave web sized thumbs because that was what they paid for on another project. They were not happy because on the web all my work is watermarked.

cwoodard

I think they are wonderful. Maybe this is a little cynical of me, but is mom trying to get a free session or a discount here or something? I would certainly be well pleased with these photos!

edit: just noticed the previous post. that'd be my guess too!

Ed911

jeffreaux2 wrote:

By my eye these were executed very well, but.....technical prowess isn't the only thing that sells prints.

I have long ago given up on trying to figure why clients choose what they choose.....which....often enough isn't in line with what I might have chosen. Its a mystery to be sure. Rather than try to decipher this...I just make sure to shoot as wide a variety as possible.

I can surely see why you would be proud of these.....but can also understand a mom wanting to see some big cheesy smiles. I wouldn't get myself to banged up about it if you indeed have a handful with the cheesy smiles for her.

I like Jeff's answer. There is no rhyme or reason why some will like one photo over another. One issue is that only in #2 does she make eye contact with the camera. The little girl is looking off toward other places. Over your shoulder in a couple. (3 and 6)

In number one, she looks kind of pouty...like she's not happy.

Number 2 looks like she has a blank stare on her face.

In number 8 she is looking somewhere...but not at the props.

It's just my guess...mainly because only the mother can tell you what she doesn't like...but I think the problem is that while technically correct, most are not very engaging and lack personality. Your subject doesn't look like she wants to cooperate, or doesn't understand what you are trying to get out of her.

I like 9 and 4...the best of the post.

Not trying to hurt your feelings...anything but that...just thought you might like another view point.

WingsOfLovePhoto

Thanks so much again for the continued support. I am humbled by all the wonderful comments. I guess I just have to learn to deal with rejection better.. It is true you can't please everybody....though I try really hard! As far as the possibility of downloading the pictures... I don't think that is the case. My dgrin gallery that I use to put pictures here is the only ones with original and not necessarily watermarked. It is not listed to be viewed on my site. The gallery that the customer looks at is locked down as best a smugmug can. I allow xlarge looks (not original) and watermark them all. I know that only detracts and doesn't totally prevent copyright infringement. I since have uploaded 15 more pictures to this gallery. Most with cheesy smiles. They now seem to like some of those. I feel though that people would come to me for my artistry and not just for the cheesy grin that they can get anywhere..... ..but in this case I guess not. I offered to redo a few more to incorporate the full dress but it is really hard in my small studio space and is still too cold and barren outside to make those pictures worthwhile. I did another communion girl today and am awaiting feedback from her mother. Will be interesting to hear whether she likes her pictures. Thanks again to all of you.... I just love the internet and the way it allows us all to connect.

Photosbychuck

Great Shots

IMO I would have thought that the mom would like most of them.
Maybe you could talk to the child more before the session to help them relax.

Take Care,
Charles

Nikolai

Scott_Quier wrote:

...For studio portrait sessions I've taken to shooting teathered ...

Interesting... I was thinking about that but haven't done it yet, except using AC adapter instead of the batteries (this way I also have fewer cases of "WTH is my camera" syndrom :-).
What's your setup? Have any pictures?

Scott_Quier

Nikolai wrote:

Interesting... I was thinking about that but haven't done it yet, except using AC adapter instead of the batteries (this way I also have fewer cases of "WTH is my camera" syndrom :-).
What's your setup? Have any pictures?

No pictures at this time. I have a session next Sat. I'll take a couple then.

But, basically, it's just a laptop against the back wall and plugged into the wall. Connectino betwen the camera and the PC is via a 10' (3m) USB cord. Dump the RAW files into LR watch directory from where the files are imported into LR and then displayed on the screen. Works amazingly well and doesn't take very long for it to show up on the screen - even when working with the 50D RAW files.

Dave Clee

I had another studio session last night and shot it tethered again.

It will now be standard practice. I thought I would hate the cable, but I barely notice it.

What's great is it gives the model instant feedback.

It also allows me to see what I can improve on for the next few shots.

I'm using Nikon Capture pro and its pretty good at rendering it on screen quickly.

In fact I just bought a 25" LCD to mount inside the posing area, that will be a clone desktop of the bigger LCD that displays in the back of the room. This way the model will have a clear view of the frame.

Love technology.

Cheers

Dave

Nikolai

Scott_Quier wrote:

No pictures at this time. I have a session next Sat. I'll take a couple then.

But, basically, it's just a laptop against the back wall and plugged into the wall. Connectino betwen the camera and the PC is via a 10' (3m) USB cord. Dump the RAW files into LR watch directory from where the files are imported into LR and then displayed on the screen. Works amazingly well and doesn't take very long for it to show up on the screen - even when working with the 50D RAW files.

Got it thanks!

Halliday

Don't worry about it. Those images are great. The mom is just looking to get free work done.