Here are some other points...
Thanks for posting this topic!
Here a few others that get me as well:
If you viewed a posting and saw the image posted, you must have had some reaction to the image? I mean something caught your eye? Colors, Composition, contrast, subject matter. All of us here regardles of if we are pros or amatures shoot photography because something captures our eye or emotionally moves us right? So I agree and find it hard to understand how someone can view a posted image and not leave some kind of response. Even it is..."Thanks for posting, I love sunsets" or "Wow, that really stands out because of..."
And here is one I wonder if any of you are guilty of?
You take the time to write to a photographer here to tell him or her how you enjoyed their images, But you didn't comment on any of their images in their galleries under the images you liked!
I love getting e-mail every now and then from someone who said "saw your smugmug images and they were cool." BUT, when I go check my galleries I do not see one comment from that person!
If you took the time to send a private e-mail to someone, please take the time to leave comments under any images you liked In their galleries.
Great topic!
You really do not have to be an expert on photography to make some comments under an image posted or under an image in a smugmug gallery.
It is a shame to see so many thread with views but few if any comments.
I stopped posting images because I was getting only one or two responses.
We all love photography.
If we all take 1 minute or 2 minutes extra each time we visit dgrin to add a few comments, then the activity would shoot up incredibly!
In the interests of full disclosure I'll tell people why I don't make as many comments as I used to. I used to be very active in commenting on photos in the sports forum. But another poster alluded to an issue which has caused me, and several other experienced shooters to drastically cut back on public critique:
The notion of giving away sports images to other parents, etc. For those of us trying to make money or a living off sports photography, it's a practice we don't particularly like. Now, I do NOT, repeat NOT want to open up that can of worms in this thread. Suffice it to say there are those on both sides of the issue and they're not likely to change their minds. The issue for me is I don't particularly like people using my knowledge and experience to undermine my or others business. Even when it's not the people in the threads, lots of others simply read and pick up knowledge and techniques then turn around and give photos away. I love helping people with the passion for this genre - when it's for personal use or when they're trying to earn some money from it. But it became evident to me a while back just how many people there were that were simply giving away their photos - and were unapologetic about using advice from experienced shooters to undermine the market for those same shooters. Most of my critique now is done via PM and email. Again, I do NOT want to turn this thread into a debate on that subject. But it is information on why myself and some of the other seasoned sports photogs no longer comment as much as we used to.
In the interests of full disclosure I'll tell people why I don't make as many comments as I used to. I used to be very active in commenting on photos in the sports forum. But another poster alluded to an issue which has caused me, and several other experienced shooters to drastically cut back on public critique:
The notion of giving away sports images to other parents, etc. For those of us trying to make money or a living off sports photography, it's a practice we don't particularly like. Now, I do NOT, repeat NOT want to open up that can of worms in this thread. Suffice it to say there are those on both sides of the issue and they're not likely to change their minds. The issue for me is I don't particularly like people using my knowledge and experience to undermine my or others business. Even when it's not the people in the threads, lots of others simply read and pick up knowledge and techniques then turn around and give photos away. I love helping people with the passion for this genre - when it's for personal use or when they're trying to earn some money from it. But it became evident to me a while back just how many people there were that were simply giving away their photos - and were unapologetic about using advice from experienced shooters to undermine the market for those same shooters. Most of my critique now is done via PM and email. Again, I do NOT want to turn this thread into a debate on that subject. But it is information on why myself and some of the other seasoned sports photogs no longer comment as much as we used to.
fair point...
Tim Troy, MI
D700/200, SB800(4), 70-200, 300 2.8 and a few more
In the interests of full disclosure I'll tell people why I don't make as many comments as I used to. I used to be very active in commenting on photos in the sports forum. But another poster alluded to an issue which has caused me, and several other experienced shooters to drastically cut back on public critique:
The notion of giving away sports images to other parents, etc. For those of us trying to make money or a living off sports photography, it's a practice we don't particularly like. Now, I do NOT, repeat NOT want to open up that can of worms in this thread. Suffice it to say there are those on both sides of the issue and they're not likely to change their minds. The issue for me is I don't particularly like people using my knowledge and experience to undermine my or others business. Even when it's not the people in the threads, lots of others simply read and pick up knowledge and techniques then turn around and give photos away. I love helping people with the passion for this genre - when it's for personal use or when they're trying to earn some money from it. But it became evident to me a while back just how many people there were that were simply giving away their photos - and were unapologetic about using advice from experienced shooters to undermine the market for those same shooters. Most of my critique now is done via PM and email. Again, I do NOT want to turn this thread into a debate on that subject. But it is information on why myself and some of the other seasoned sports photogs no longer comment as much as we used to.
I believe you summed it up well John. Thats one main reason I don't comment much these days.
In the interests of full disclosure I'll tell people why I don't make as many comments as I used to. I used to be very active in commenting on photos in the sports forum. But another poster alluded to an issue which has caused me, and several other experienced shooters to drastically cut back on public critique:
The notion of giving away sports images to other parents, etc. For those of us trying to make money or a living off sports photography, it's a practice we don't particularly like. Now, I do NOT, repeat NOT want to open up that can of worms in this thread. Suffice it to say there are those on both sides of the issue and they're not likely to change their minds. The issue for me is I don't particularly like people using my knowledge and experience to undermine my or others business. Even when it's not the people in the threads, lots of others simply read and pick up knowledge and techniques then turn around and give photos away. I love helping people with the passion for this genre - when it's for personal use or when they're trying to earn some money from it. But it became evident to me a while back just how many people there were that were simply giving away their photos - and were unapologetic about using advice from experienced shooters to undermine the market for those same shooters. Most of my critique now is done via PM and email. Again, I do NOT want to turn this thread into a debate on that subject. But it is information on why myself and some of the other seasoned sports photogs no longer comment as much as we used to.
In the interests of full disclosure I'll tell people why I don't make as many comments as I used to. I used to be very active in commenting on photos in the sports forum. But another poster alluded to an issue which has caused me, and several other experienced shooters to drastically cut back on public critique:
One might argue that not contributing is similar.
Not that I disagree with your reasoning. In fact, I support it. But in the interest of learning, I think comments can be made which steer people in the right direction without necessarily giving away the farm.
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
In the interests of full disclosure I'll tell people why I don't make as many comments as I used to. I used to be very active in commenting on photos in the sports forum. But another poster alluded to an issue which has caused me, and several other experienced shooters to drastically cut back on public critique:
The notion of giving away sports images to other parents, etc. For those of us trying to make money or a living off sports photography, it's a practice we don't particularly like. Now, I do NOT, repeat NOT want to open up that can of worms in this thread. Suffice it to say there are those on both sides of the issue and they're not likely to change their minds. The issue for me is I don't particularly like people using my knowledge and experience to undermine my or others business. Even when it's not the people in the threads, lots of others simply read and pick up knowledge and techniques then turn around and give photos away. I love helping people with the passion for this genre - when it's for personal use or when they're trying to earn some money from it. But it became evident to me a while back just how many people there were that were simply giving away their photos - and were unapologetic about using advice from experienced shooters to undermine the market for those same shooters. Most of my critique now is done via PM and email. Again, I do NOT want to turn this thread into a debate on that subject. But it is information on why myself and some of the other seasoned sports photogs no longer comment as much as we used to.
...I got one rather amateurish comment from an individual whose own image posts were really poor.
Unless you are a pro (pro meaning you make some of your income from photography) one should restrict your comments to something upbeat. Forums like this should be for fun.
I do not post to forums for this reason. Most of what you get are comments from people who do not contribute anything useful. Encourage the people here...don't pretend you are a pro if you are not.
I will respectfully disagree. It's an easy thing to ignore comments that are there if you disagree. But I don't think you have to be a pro to have a valuable opinion. For certain there is a higher probability of a full-time pro having a valuable opinion. But by your definition, if someone makes $10 a year they are pro and thus may comment. In the end, critique is just data. You as the recipient have to determine whether it's valuable information or just noise.
Just saw the 'forums like this should be for fun' comment. IMO, forums like this should be just like a camera club. You want other PHOTOGRAPHERS to provide feedback so everyone can improve. But that goes back to a difference of opinion on what genre-specific photography forums are for.
From someone no one here has had the chance to get to know, your post is a hell of an intro. Why not post a link to your web site or maybe your sportshooter gallery?
There are a lot of people here and on other forums who will never shoot professionally (they won't earn 100% of their income from photography--and in all likely hood, not even enough to cover the cost of equipment). They do it because their kids are involved in sports or because they enjoy what they do and many really do want to get better.
As far as comments or critique? That and a comment or critique, whether from a "pro" or someone else, is something someone took the time to give you. I'll say it again. That person took the time to comment on your post--and you dissed it.
I was up until midnight and stumbled into this forum. I was editing around 500 images of a bicycle race I had just shot. Just for grins I posted a grab shot. A rider in the shot had his tongue out...it was cute. If I thought it was marketable I sure would not have posted it for free in a forum. I know I did not leave the image up very long, but of 20 or so views, I got one rather amateurish comment from an individual whose own image posts were really poor.
Unless you are a pro (pro meaning you make some of your income from photography) one should restrict your comments to something upbeat. Forums like this should be for fun.
I do not post to forums for this reason. Most of what you get are comments from people who do not contribute anything useful. Encourage the people here...don't pretend you are a pro if you are not.
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
I was up until midnight and stumbled into this forum. I was editing around 500 images of a bicycle race I had just shot. Just for grins I posted a grab shot. A rider in the shot had his tongue out...it was cute. If I thought it was marketable I sure would not have posted it for free in a forum. I know I did not leave the image up very long, but of 20 or so views, I got one rather amateurish comment from an individual whose own image posts were really poor.
Unless you are a pro (pro meaning you make some of your income from photography) one should restrict your comments to something upbeat. Forums like this should be for fun.
I do not post to forums for this reason. Most of what you get are comments from people who do not contribute anything useful. Encourage the people here...don't pretend you are a pro if you are not.
Part of becoming a better photographer is improving your ability to look at images critically, and a crucial element of that is trying out your critical eye in public: having an opinion and getting a reaction to it is a valuable way to learn.
I encourage everyone to critique images. It's a muscle you have to use to improve.
Part of becoming a better photographer is improving your ability to look at images critically, and a crucial element of that is trying out your critical eye in public: having an opinion and getting a reaction to it is a valuable way to learn.
I encourage everyone to critique images. It's a muscle you have to use to improve.
!
I'm new here, i have a pro account but i don't run acount claiming to be pro but that's my GOAL.
Just don't stroke your own ego while "dissing" someone else. I get the impression that what you are reacting to is my comment about being a "pro". This business is hard enough. A kind pat on the back is what most people want.
You are correct...you don't know me and I don't know you...i.e. you don't know if my comments are worthwhile and I don't know if your's are.
BTW: drstress.smugmug.com
No need to stroke anyone's ego. My reaction is to your showing up and saying "I posted a shot, got 20 views and one comment".
As for whether or not my or others comments are valuable, it's up to the individual to decide.
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
I'm new here, i have a pro account but i don't run acount claiming to be pro but that's my GOAL.
I've made a whopping $32! so i'm a pro all the sudden?! lolz
Take a dollar of the 32 and frame it. If you ever feel like quitting look at it and remember...someone thinks enough of your work to give you more than just words.
Take a dollar of the 32 and frame it. If you ever feel like quitting look at it and remember...someone thinks enough of your work to give you more than just words.
Yes...you are a pro...go for it.
There's one more bit that I have to add on to this conversation, and that's this:
The designation "Pro" is not a reliable measure of talent or ability. Plenty of amateurs are amazing, and plenty of pros suck eggs.
Our clients, and most people who will view our photos, are not pros. So why wouldn't we want critique even from the most casual hobbiest? I often ask my husband for his opinions just to get another perspective, knowing that we have differences in artistic taste.
There's one more bit that I have to add on to this conversation, and that's this:
The designation "Pro" is not a reliable measure of talent or ability. Plenty of amateurs are amazing, and plenty of pros suck eggs.
X2!!!
When I shot my first pro SX race in Vegas last October, I approached a pro photog for a pretty popular MX magazine. He had a big 300 F/2.8 lens attached to a big fancy Canon camera. I asked him what ISO he was using because it was pretty dark. He looked at me like I just spoke spanish to him and said man I don't know, I just turn it on adjust apperature and shoot. I couldn't believe it. This guy doesn't even know how to shoot in manual mode and he is this bigtime photog for a national MX magazine. I was in shock.
Unfortunately in photography there is no black and white definition of what a Pro/Semi Pro photographer is. So, this discussion could go on and on and never end. My suggestion is you don't get all caught up in giving yourself a title then assuming you are qualified to be whatever title you chose for yourself. I find it humerous to believe that if you make $10 in picture sales that you could consider yourself a pro, but whatever.
It's simple, if you look a a persons post on here and feel compeled to comment on it, then do so. If you don't then do not feel as if you have to make up some polite comment just so people aren't scared to post anymore. This is a public, non charging site without a set of governing rules about when to post comments. That means each individual on here can pretty much act accordingly to how they feel within reason. Until there is some governing body that comes up with a list of rules and everyone is charged a certain monetary fee, which in turn locks them into to abiding by these terms, this issue will never go away. So, just go with it. If you are scared to post your pictures because nobody comments on them, then assume they can be better and work towards that. If your pics are really good, people will comment on them. If this is too hard for you to handle and hurts your feelings, then perhaps you shouldn't be on a photography site
Our clients, and most people who will view our photos, are not pros.
I am in the same boat. I have no clients who are pro photographers. The whole point that I joined DGrin was to learn and share. There are some great photographers here and for the most part, are willing to share what they know.
Lord knows that I don't always agree with the logic of some, but their opinion and experience is still a very valuable tool for those who are willing to listen and learn.
Viewing a great photo is nice, but doesn't necessarily teach me how to be a better photographer. Making a living with photography doesn't teach me how to be a better photographer either. I welcome those who see things differently than I do. Whether they are right or wrong still offers me a new point of view.
Way too often the pros focus on details or composition, where the casual photographer can tell you whether they like the shot or not. Most of the pros that I hang out with will readily admit that their worst shot is the one the client chose. Happens to me all the time.
The client usually chooses a photo based on emotion, and that is something that we all can learn.
Photography is far more than the composition or capturing the right light and angles.
While I understand the logic behind not posting because someone, somewhere may learn how to take better photos simply to them give away, I truly don't understand why bother to join a photo forum.
As I said, I thought that a forum is a place to share and learn.
Originally Posted by drstress I was up until midnight and stumbled into this forum. I was editing around 500 images of a bicycle race I had just shot. Just for grins I posted a grab shot. A rider in the shot had his tongue out...it was cute. If I thought it was marketable I sure would not have posted it for free in a forum. I know I did not leave the image up very long, but of 20 or so views, I got one rather amateurish comment from an individual whose own image posts were really poor.
Unless you are a pro (pro meaning you make some of your income from photography) one should restrict your comments to something upbeat. Forums like this should be for fun.
I do not post to forums for this reason. Most of what you get are comments from people who do not contribute anything useful. Encourage the people here...don't pretend you are a pro if you are not.
Thanks for the good chuckle. The person who replied to your post is an outstanding photographer.
I find it odd that you couldn't garner just a bit of knowledge from his response. Then again, after taking a gander at your voluminous work and the quality in your gallery.. well... au revoir!
I suppose I shouldn't say much as I've killed my site altogether and closed up shop. I'm no better than joe the avg. photo taker, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express... once.
I approached a pro photog for a pretty popular MX magazine.
I'm going to assume that was Kardy. When I was at LL's one year, I had asked him something...as his response is on nearly anything photography related..."read the f... manual" was his response to me. However, I saw him later and asked him something else and told him I'm the one you said that too before, and he chuckled and answered a few questions for me to help me out. Cool guy really. Of course, I'm just assuming here.
On the whole critiquing dealio... I don't think that anyone should feel that they must be "qualified" to give critique. Afterall, it is just ones opinion on what they are seeing. In fact, even if their reply is offering advice and is not necessarily correct, one can also reply to their post to help them in understanding things also.
Take a dollar of the 32 and frame it. If you ever feel like quitting look at it and remember...someone thinks enough of your work to give you more than just words.
Yes...you are a pro...go for it.
I've quoted your post so that we have it for reference when you delete it.
I have a hard time believing that your posts here are more than a joke. I saw the image you posted this morning and also saw the very usefull constructive coment left for you. The photographer that was kind enough to give you their time in the form of a comment, is an outstanding photographer, you should be thanking them for their valuable advice.
Take a dollar of the 32 and frame it. If you ever feel like quitting look at it and remember...someone thinks enough of your work to give you more than just words.
Yes...you are a pro...go for it.
I have to wait til i reach 100, oh man i'm screwed. I do have some some loose change. Hey there's an idea!
I won't be surprised when you come to my gallery when i'm all famous and see my 3 quarters 2 dimes and a nickel glued inside a frame. You can say... "i inspired that".
I completely understand what some of you have said about egos being damaged with critique, but even when I do ask for C&C I might not get any replies for a week. When people do reply it's only because I bump my post and ask for some again. I'm the same as a few other noobs, I equate 0 reply's and 50 views as my photos not being any good. This makes me think twice bout posting my next lot of photos which means the forum suffers and I never learn anything.
I've been getting favourable feedback on my track day photos from the people I'm shooting, and that has increased my confidence. If I'm going to sell photos then I'd like for the buyers to love my shots and not just buy them cause it's of their car and I'm cheaper then others going round. Coming here and getting told 'nice shot' is no different to what I'm getting from the drivers, so what I really want is comments on what I did wrong, why a shot came out that way, how I could fix it in PP or how to avoid it next time. Obviously everyone is busy with their own lives however all the pro's here were noobs once as well, so how did they get good? I can't imagine being a photographer starting out without the internet or forums
“I don’t understand bus lanes. Why do poor people have to get to places quicker than I do?” - Jeremy Clarkson
As my mentors in business community have always told me - "you are responsible for your own career". So here is my advice to those of you not getting responses as you would like. Do some research on the forum - find a photographer that shoots what you just shot and whose skill you admire. Send them a PM asking them for feedback. Repeat for other photogs. If there isn't an exact match on type of sport then simply send a couple messages to sports photogs whose work you admire even if it isn't in the same sport. If you really want the feedback, then be proactive about getting it. It's rare you would get turned away or ignored if you PM a person who is active on the forums. Even those of us who don't like to post public advice anymore are still willing to help people outside of public posts (in my case its if you can tell me you're shooting only for personal or profit and you're not giving away photos "until you get better"). Others have no such restrictions on their advice. But, people that take initiative are people to me that demonstrate they take this seriously. If they've taken the time to message me I try to respond right away.
So, if you're serious about your hobby then be proactive and go after feedback from the people you would most welcome a critique.
It's simple, if you look a a persons post on here and feel compeled to comment on it, then do so. If you don't then do not feel as if you have to make up some polite comment just so people aren't scared to post anymore. This is a public, non charging site without a set of governing rules about when to post comments. That means each individual on here can pretty much act accordingly to how they feel within reason. Until there is some governing body that comes up with a list of rules and everyone is charged a certain monetary fee, which in turn locks them into to abiding by these terms, this issue will never go away. So, just go with it. If you are scared to post your pictures because nobody comments on them, then assume they can be better and work towards that. If your pics are really good, people will comment on them. If this is too hard for you to handle and hurts your feelings, then perhaps you shouldn't be on a photography site
The problem with this comment is that those who don't get comments and so don't post because as you say 'can be better' how are they to know HOW they can be better? There are so many aspects of a photo, how to improve a photo, how can not getting any comments tell a person what was wrong with them and where to improve? By your logic, those who are rubbish at photography should give up when they don't get any C&C.
A big worry I had was when deciding to buy my D90, would I enjoy it? Would I be any good? I had never spent so much money on something I didn't know a lot about, I've spent money on computers, cars, sporting equipment, hi-fi. I thought, am I going to just end up selling it if I'm no good at it? So yes I agree that no one is forced to give C&C, but photography isn't a cheap hobby. Am I enjoying it? For the most part, yes I am.
“I don’t understand bus lanes. Why do poor people have to get to places quicker than I do?” - Jeremy Clarkson
The problem with this comment is that those who don't get comments and so don't post because as you say 'can be better' how are they to know HOW they can be better? There are so many aspects of a photo, how to improve a photo, how can not getting any comments tell a person what was wrong with them and where to improve? By your logic, those who are rubbish at photography should give up when they don't get any C&C.
I've said it a couple of times already. But to get, you gotta give. Learn a little about writing critique by reading this.
Suppose you wanted to skip the reading? Then simply remember to say what you like about the photo, what's not so good and what can be done to improve. "Nice shot" while nice to hear is not very useful if the OP asks for critique. And above all, when you write critique, remember that it's about the photo.
I really do think DavidTO is correct when he says writing critique is something you have to learn to do. Not everyone is good at it and different people have different opinions. When you're reading critique you've been given, keep this in mind.
I would hope more people will participate in the critique process.
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
The problem with this comment is that those who don't get comments and so don't post because as you say 'can be better' how are they to know HOW they can be better? There are so many aspects of a photo, how to improve a photo, how can not getting any comments tell a person what was wrong with them and where to improve? By your logic, those who are rubbish at photography should give up when they don't get any C&C.
A big worry I had was when deciding to buy my D90, would I enjoy it? Would I be any good? I had never spent so much money on something I didn't know a lot about, I've spent money on computers, cars, sporting equipment, hi-fi. I thought, am I going to just end up selling it if I'm no good at it? So yes I agree that no one is forced to give C&C, but photography isn't a cheap hobby. Am I enjoying it? For the most part, yes I am.
I would say do research, use the search button and practice, practice, practice.
Comments
Thanks for posting this topic!
Here a few others that get me as well:
If you viewed a posting and saw the image posted, you must have had some reaction to the image? I mean something caught your eye? Colors, Composition, contrast, subject matter. All of us here regardles of if we are pros or amatures shoot photography because something captures our eye or emotionally moves us right? So I agree and find it hard to understand how someone can view a posted image and not leave some kind of response. Even it is..."Thanks for posting, I love sunsets" or "Wow, that really stands out because of..."
And here is one I wonder if any of you are guilty of?
You take the time to write to a photographer here to tell him or her how you enjoyed their images, But you didn't comment on any of their images in their galleries under the images you liked!
I love getting e-mail every now and then from someone who said "saw your smugmug images and they were cool." BUT, when I go check my galleries I do not see one comment from that person!
If you took the time to send a private e-mail to someone, please take the time to leave comments under any images you liked In their galleries.
Great topic!
You really do not have to be an expert on photography to make some comments under an image posted or under an image in a smugmug gallery.
It is a shame to see so many thread with views but few if any comments.
I stopped posting images because I was getting only one or two responses.
We all love photography.
If we all take 1 minute or 2 minutes extra each time we visit dgrin to add a few comments, then the activity would shoot up incredibly!
Thanks,
Jeff
www.FromTheMindsEye.info
This should be posted as a sticky in all of the forums.
The notion of giving away sports images to other parents, etc. For those of us trying to make money or a living off sports photography, it's a practice we don't particularly like. Now, I do NOT, repeat NOT want to open up that can of worms in this thread. Suffice it to say there are those on both sides of the issue and they're not likely to change their minds. The issue for me is I don't particularly like people using my knowledge and experience to undermine my or others business. Even when it's not the people in the threads, lots of others simply read and pick up knowledge and techniques then turn around and give photos away. I love helping people with the passion for this genre - when it's for personal use or when they're trying to earn some money from it. But it became evident to me a while back just how many people there were that were simply giving away their photos - and were unapologetic about using advice from experienced shooters to undermine the market for those same shooters. Most of my critique now is done via PM and email. Again, I do NOT want to turn this thread into a debate on that subject. But it is information on why myself and some of the other seasoned sports photogs no longer comment as much as we used to.
fair point...
Troy, MI
D700/200, SB800(4), 70-200, 300 2.8 and a few more
www.sportsshooter.com/tjk60
I believe you summed it up well John. Thats one main reason I don't comment much these days.
Canon Gear
One might argue that not contributing is similar.
Not that I disagree with your reasoning. In fact, I support it. But in the interest of learning, I think comments can be made which steer people in the right direction without necessarily giving away the farm.
Nikon D4, Nikon D3, Nikon D3
Nikon 14-24 f2.8, Nikon 24-70 f2.8, Nikon 70-200 f2.8 VR II, Nikon 50 f1.8, Nikon 85 f1.4
Nikon 300 f2.8 VR, Nikon 200-400 f4.0 VR II, Nikon 600 f4.0 II, TC-1.4, TC 1.7, TC 2.0
(1) SB-800, (2) SB-900, (4) Multi Max Pocket Wizards
I will respectfully disagree. It's an easy thing to ignore comments that are there if you disagree. But I don't think you have to be a pro to have a valuable opinion. For certain there is a higher probability of a full-time pro having a valuable opinion. But by your definition, if someone makes $10 a year they are pro and thus may comment. In the end, critique is just data. You as the recipient have to determine whether it's valuable information or just noise.
Just saw the 'forums like this should be for fun' comment. IMO, forums like this should be just like a camera club. You want other PHOTOGRAPHERS to provide feedback so everyone can improve. But that goes back to a difference of opinion on what genre-specific photography forums are for.
There are a lot of people here and on other forums who will never shoot professionally (they won't earn 100% of their income from photography--and in all likely hood, not even enough to cover the cost of equipment). They do it because their kids are involved in sports or because they enjoy what they do and many really do want to get better.
As far as comments or critique? That and a comment or critique, whether from a "pro" or someone else, is something someone took the time to give you. I'll say it again. That person took the time to comment on your post--and you dissed it.
Nice drive-by.
Part of becoming a better photographer is improving your ability to look at images critically, and a crucial element of that is trying out your critical eye in public: having an opinion and getting a reaction to it is a valuable way to learn.
I encourage everyone to critique images. It's a muscle you have to use to improve.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
I'm new here, i have a pro account but i don't run acount claiming to be pro but that's my GOAL.
I've made a whopping $32! so i'm a pro all the sudden?! <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/wings.gif" border="0" alt="" > lolz
No need to stroke anyone's ego. My reaction is to your showing up and saying "I posted a shot, got 20 views and one comment".
As for whether or not my or others comments are valuable, it's up to the individual to decide.
Take a dollar of the 32 and frame it. If you ever feel like quitting look at it and remember...someone thinks enough of your work to give you more than just words.
Yes...you are a pro...go for it.
There's one more bit that I have to add on to this conversation, and that's this:
The designation "Pro" is not a reliable measure of talent or ability. Plenty of amateurs are amazing, and plenty of pros suck eggs.
Dgrin FAQ | Me | Workshops
Caroline
X2!!!
When I shot my first pro SX race in Vegas last October, I approached a pro photog for a pretty popular MX magazine. He had a big 300 F/2.8 lens attached to a big fancy Canon camera. I asked him what ISO he was using because it was pretty dark. He looked at me like I just spoke spanish to him and said man I don't know, I just turn it on adjust apperature and shoot. I couldn't believe it. This guy doesn't even know how to shoot in manual mode and he is this bigtime photog for a national MX magazine. I was in shock.
Unfortunately in photography there is no black and white definition of what a Pro/Semi Pro photographer is. So, this discussion could go on and on and never end. My suggestion is you don't get all caught up in giving yourself a title then assuming you are qualified to be whatever title you chose for yourself. I find it humerous to believe that if you make $10 in picture sales that you could consider yourself a pro, but whatever.
It's simple, if you look a a persons post on here and feel compeled to comment on it, then do so. If you don't then do not feel as if you have to make up some polite comment just so people aren't scared to post anymore. This is a public, non charging site without a set of governing rules about when to post comments. That means each individual on here can pretty much act accordingly to how they feel within reason. Until there is some governing body that comes up with a list of rules and everyone is charged a certain monetary fee, which in turn locks them into to abiding by these terms, this issue will never go away. So, just go with it. If you are scared to post your pictures because nobody comments on them, then assume they can be better and work towards that. If your pics are really good, people will comment on them. If this is too hard for you to handle and hurts your feelings, then perhaps you shouldn't be on a photography site
http://www.RussErbePhotography.com :thumb
http://www.sportsshooter.com/erbeman
D700, D300, Nikkor 35-70 F/2.8, Nikkor 50mm F/1.8, Nikkor 70-200 AF-S VR F/2.8, Nikkor AF-S 1.7 teleconverter II,(2) Profoto D1 500 Air,SB-900, SB-600, (2)MB-D10, MacBook Pro
I am in the same boat. I have no clients who are pro photographers. The whole point that I joined DGrin was to learn and share. There are some great photographers here and for the most part, are willing to share what they know.
Lord knows that I don't always agree with the logic of some, but their opinion and experience is still a very valuable tool for those who are willing to listen and learn.
Viewing a great photo is nice, but doesn't necessarily teach me how to be a better photographer. Making a living with photography doesn't teach me how to be a better photographer either. I welcome those who see things differently than I do. Whether they are right or wrong still offers me a new point of view.
Way too often the pros focus on details or composition, where the casual photographer can tell you whether they like the shot or not. Most of the pros that I hang out with will readily admit that their worst shot is the one the client chose. Happens to me all the time.
The client usually chooses a photo based on emotion, and that is something that we all can learn.
Photography is far more than the composition or capturing the right light and angles.
While I understand the logic behind not posting because someone, somewhere may learn how to take better photos simply to them give away, I truly don't understand why bother to join a photo forum.
As I said, I thought that a forum is a place to share and learn.
Website
Congrats! <img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/rolleyes1.gif" border="0" alt="" >
Troy, MI
D700/200, SB800(4), 70-200, 300 2.8 and a few more
www.sportsshooter.com/tjk60
Thanks for the good chuckle. The person who replied to your post is an outstanding photographer.
I find it odd that you couldn't garner just a bit of knowledge from his response. Then again, after taking a gander at your voluminous work and the quality in your gallery.. well...
I suppose I shouldn't say much as I've killed my site altogether and closed up shop. I'm no better than joe the avg. photo taker, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express... once.
I'm going to assume that was Kardy. When I was at LL's one year, I had asked him something...as his response is on nearly anything photography related..."read the f... manual" was his response to me. However, I saw him later and asked him something else and told him I'm the one you said that too before, and he chuckled and answered a few questions for me to help me out. Cool guy really. Of course, I'm just assuming here.
On the whole critiquing dealio... I don't think that anyone should feel that they must be "qualified" to give critique. Afterall, it is just ones opinion on what they are seeing. In fact, even if their reply is offering advice and is not necessarily correct, one can also reply to their post to help them in understanding things also.
So.. everyone in my mind is qualified.
I've quoted your post so that we have it for reference when you delete it.
I have a hard time believing that your posts here are more than a joke. I saw the image you posted this morning and also saw the very usefull constructive coment left for you. The photographer that was kind enough to give you their time in the form of a comment, is an outstanding photographer, you should be thanking them for their valuable advice.
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo
I have to wait til i reach 100, oh man i'm screwed. I do have some some loose change. Hey there's an idea!
I won't be surprised when you come to my gallery when i'm all famous and see my 3 quarters 2 dimes and a nickel glued inside a frame. You can say... "i inspired that".
Everyone needs a beer... let's roll out.
I've been getting favourable feedback on my track day photos from the people I'm shooting, and that has increased my confidence. If I'm going to sell photos then I'd like for the buyers to love my shots and not just buy them cause it's of their car and I'm cheaper then others going round. Coming here and getting told 'nice shot' is no different to what I'm getting from the drivers, so what I really want is comments on what I did wrong, why a shot came out that way, how I could fix it in PP or how to avoid it next time. Obviously everyone is busy with their own lives however all the pro's here were noobs once as well, so how did they get good? I can't imagine being a photographer starting out without the internet or forums
My Blog: www.floody82.com
My Photos: floody82.smugmug.com
So, if you're serious about your hobby then be proactive and go after feedback from the people you would most welcome a critique.
The problem with this comment is that those who don't get comments and so don't post because as you say 'can be better' how are they to know HOW they can be better? There are so many aspects of a photo, how to improve a photo, how can not getting any comments tell a person what was wrong with them and where to improve? By your logic, those who are rubbish at photography should give up when they don't get any C&C.
A big worry I had was when deciding to buy my D90, would I enjoy it? Would I be any good? I had never spent so much money on something I didn't know a lot about, I've spent money on computers, cars, sporting equipment, hi-fi. I thought, am I going to just end up selling it if I'm no good at it? So yes I agree that no one is forced to give C&C, but photography isn't a cheap hobby. Am I enjoying it? For the most part, yes I am.
My Blog: www.floody82.com
My Photos: floody82.smugmug.com
If you find yourself wanting to sell that D90 drop me a line, it is an excelent camera.
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo
lol well the term hi-fi is still used here in Australia. And nope, I do love my D90
My Blog: www.floody82.com
My Photos: floody82.smugmug.com
I've said it a couple of times already. But to get, you gotta give. Learn a little about writing critique by reading this.
Suppose you wanted to skip the reading? Then simply remember to say what you like about the photo, what's not so good and what can be done to improve. "Nice shot" while nice to hear is not very useful if the OP asks for critique. And above all, when you write critique, remember that it's about the photo.
I really do think DavidTO is correct when he says writing critique is something you have to learn to do. Not everyone is good at it and different people have different opinions. When you're reading critique you've been given, keep this in mind.
I would hope more people will participate in the critique process.
I would say do research, use the search button and practice, practice, practice.
http://www.RussErbePhotography.com :thumb
http://www.sportsshooter.com/erbeman
D700, D300, Nikkor 35-70 F/2.8, Nikkor 50mm F/1.8, Nikkor 70-200 AF-S VR F/2.8, Nikkor AF-S 1.7 teleconverter II,(2) Profoto D1 500 Air,SB-900, SB-600, (2)MB-D10, MacBook Pro