The Neutral Density Filter FAQ

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Comments

  • travischancetravischance Registered Users Posts: 642 Major grins
    edited December 21, 2009
    3-stop soft GND
    2-stop hard GND
    10-stop solid ND

    Good kit or not?
    Travis M. Chance
    twin Mark IV's & a bunch of "L" glass
    sitefacebook
  • astockwellastockwell Registered Users Posts: 279 Major grins
    edited December 29, 2009
    uncletrav wrote:
    3-stop soft GND
    2-stop hard GND
    10-stop solid ND

    Good kit or not?

    Depends on what your planning on shooting. If you tend to shoot a lot of places where there is no defined horizon, you would probably want both soft grads. If you shoot a lot of places with a defined horizon (seascapes) both hard edge grads would be advisable. I would consider maybe a 2-stop hard and soft, with a 3 stop soft if you feel you need more latitude for what you tend to shoot. That way you are pretty much covered. I tend to use my 2-stop the most. Only the three stop when I cannot hold the sky back, concurrently with the 2-stop. The 10 stop is just icing. You can do a lot of cool things with the 10 stop. Get a screw on 10 stop though. The slide in one's don't work worth a damn, unless you can block all the ambient light coming in from the bottom of the filters. Black tape could probably cure that, but it is to much to deal with for me. I need to get a screw in 10 stop yet. Also consider what holder and size you are going to use. I highly advise against P-size stuff if you are shooting wider than 18mm. Z size or X size are better for wider lenses. The cokin Z holder is a great deal, with the adapter ring you need, you can use Hi-Tech or other Z-sized filters from other makers besides Cokin. I am not big on their grads, or ND's as they are not as optically pure as other brands.

    -Andy
  • travischancetravischance Registered Users Posts: 642 Major grins
    edited December 29, 2009
    astockwell wrote:
    Depends on what your planning on shooting. If you tend to shoot a lot of places where there is no defined horizon, you would probably want both soft grads. If you shoot a lot of places with a defined horizon (seascapes) both hard edge grads would be advisable. I would consider maybe a 2-stop hard and soft, with a 3 stop soft if you feel you need more latitude for what you tend to shoot. That way you are pretty much covered. I tend to use my 2-stop the most. Only the three stop when I cannot hold the sky back, concurrently with the 2-stop. The 10 stop is just icing. You can do a lot of cool things with the 10 stop. Get a screw on 10 stop though. The slide in one's don't work worth a damn, unless you can block all the ambient light coming in from the bottom of the filters. Black tape could probably cure that, but it is to much to deal with for me. I need to get a screw in 10 stop yet. Also consider what holder and size you are going to use. I highly advise against P-size stuff if you are shooting wider than 18mm. Z size or X size are better for wider lenses. The cokin Z holder is a great deal, with the adapter ring you need, you can use Hi-Tech or other Z-sized filters from other makers besides Cokin. I am not big on their grads, or ND's as they are not as optically pure as other brands.

    -Andy

    Thanks Andy! I actually purchased the Z filter with both a 77mm & 82mm adapter. Also went with the Lee 2-stop Hard & 3-stop Soft. I live in the DC area where it's pretty much flat so I believe the 3-stop soft should suffice my needs. Being so close to the coast, the 2-stop hard should be nice. I have a 10-stop B+W saved in my Amazon cart but I'm considering the Singh Ray Vari-n-Duo instead. Although it's about $300 more, I have 2 through 8 stops which will give me more flexibility!
    Travis M. Chance
    twin Mark IV's & a bunch of "L" glass
    sitefacebook
  • ShawnThompsonPhotographyShawnThompsonPhotography Registered Users Posts: 17 Big grins
    edited January 13, 2010
    astockwell wrote:
    That is true, I know a guy who uses his black glove during long shots in the winter to dodge the shot while it is going on, and the great thing is a black glove won't reflect much light, and a long exposure you wont see it in the shot, just the darker effect of it being there, say in the sky.

    I'll post a link to this:
    http://www.newschoolofphotography.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12933&highlight=glove

    This guy is one kick butt photographer. North Shore guy, and makes wonderful landscape images of Superior and the surrounding area. He is in the middle of switching domain providers and building a new site, so you can't see much of his work right now unfortunately. On his site though on the homepage he has a shot taken with a 9-stop solid ND. Awesome shot.

    -Andy

    Edit:

    He took the shot down, and changed it with another, but here is the shot

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/uniquegrafix/3300056679/

    Taken mid morning with a 9 stop filter

    Thanks for the Referral Andy! I caught this in my Flickr Stats. What a great thread for ND information.
  • Wicked_DarkWicked_Dark Registered Users Posts: 1,138 Major grins
    edited January 13, 2010
    This is a terrific thread. The power of the graduated ND is fantastic just about the only filter I use. With my new lens I found I had to get the Z-Pro filters and I still get vignetting at 12mm (24mm in FF) when I slip a polarizer under the holder. Bah.

    Here's an unexpected result from hand holding a Cokin filter in front of the lens -

    764006871_nLEjq-L.jpg
  • ShawnThompsonPhotographyShawnThompsonPhotography Registered Users Posts: 17 Big grins
    edited January 13, 2010

    Here's an unexpected result from hand holding a Cokin filter in front of the lens -

    You need to make sure the filter is Literally touching the lens.
  • Wicked_DarkWicked_Dark Registered Users Posts: 1,138 Major grins
    edited January 13, 2010
    probably, but this is the only one of several with this reflection and I rather like it. I haven't forgotten adapter rings since though.
  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited January 13, 2010
    Here's an unexpected result from hand holding a Cokin filter in front of the lens -

    Very intersting effect of the filter not being flush with lens and getting a reflection from behind I presume.....it is cool none the less............
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • PilotBradPilotBrad Registered Users Posts: 339 Major grins
    edited January 13, 2010
    Great thread!!!

    I understand that the Cokin P sized filters and holder cause vignetting when used with a EF-S 10-22 at the wide end. While several comment state that the Z-Pro size would be better for that lens, I don't see anyone specifically saying they don't cause vignetting. Can anyone with experience with this combo confirm that the Z-pro size is good for use on the 10-22?

    Thanks!
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,121 moderator
    edited January 13, 2010
    PilotBrad wrote:
    Great thread!!!

    I understand that the Cokin P sized filters and holder cause vignetting when used with a EF-S 10-22 at the wide end. While several comment state that the Z-Pro size would be better for that lens, I don't see anyone specifically saying they don't cause vignetting. Can anyone with experience with this combo confirm that the Z-pro size is good for use on the 10-22?

    Thanks!

    Take a gander at this thread:

    http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=66670
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • astockwellastockwell Registered Users Posts: 279 Major grins
    edited January 13, 2010
    ziggy53 wrote:
    Take a gander at this thread:

    http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=66670

    Hmm, I'll have to go make a comment on this one. I know for one that P's will vignette on a 18-55 at the wide end depending on how you have the holder oriented.

    -Andy
  • astockwellastockwell Registered Users Posts: 279 Major grins
    edited January 13, 2010
    Thanks for the Referral Andy! I caught this in my Flickr Stats. What a great thread for ND information.

    You're welcome Shawn, you deserve it, and you proved that you don't need a filter to make a ND effect work.

    -Andy
  • PilotBradPilotBrad Registered Users Posts: 339 Major grins
    edited January 15, 2010
    ziggy53 wrote:
    Take a gander at this thread:

    http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=66670

    Thanks ziggy. I was leaning towards Lee, so it's good to know it will work.
  • travischancetravischance Registered Users Posts: 642 Major grins
    edited January 15, 2010
    PilotBrad wrote:
    Thanks ziggy. I was leaning towards Lee, so it's good to know it will work.

    I purchased a Lee 2-stop hard & 3-stop soft before Christmas from 2filter.com. Apparently, Lee has a major backorder/production issue right now. Hopefully you won't have to wait too long!
    Travis M. Chance
    twin Mark IV's & a bunch of "L" glass
    sitefacebook
  • astockwellastockwell Registered Users Posts: 279 Major grins
    edited February 19, 2010
  • pradeepspradeeps Registered Users Posts: 9 Big grins
    edited June 11, 2010
    thanks for this useful post!
  • penduboypenduboy Registered Users Posts: 8 Beginner grinner
    edited February 27, 2012
    Thanks for putting up valuable information about ND Filters
    Hi,

    I am new to photography and totally new to ND filters. I was looking for screw on 10stops BW or Hoya filter, but then came across this wonderful thread. I ended up ordering Cokin Z-pro kit which contains 3 (4x6) soft grad filters (grey, blue and tobacco), a wallet, three cokin filter pouches and the Cokin filter holder. I also ordered a cokin 4 stop Grey nd filter (154) (4x4) for z-pro holder. I am still looking to buy an adapter for my 17-40mm and 70-200 lens (both 77mm) and may as well pick a screw on filter. I am looking to buy either 9 stops Hoya or 10 stops BW filter, both are about $100. Do you think this is more than enough to start off.

    I am more interested in shooting outdoor portraits, landscapes, buildings, streams, waterfalls, sunsets and sunrise.

    Once again thank you so much Andy and everyone else contributing their thoughts to this.

    Best reagards, Pendu
  • David_S85David_S85 Administrators Posts: 13,244 moderator
    edited February 27, 2012
    ^ above...

    If you are looking to get 10 stops of total ND, your best bet is a 10 stop screw on filter. Are you still planning on getting the screw on 10-stop, or are you going to try to create one from stacking filters?
    My Smugmug
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
  • penduboypenduboy Registered Users Posts: 8 Beginner grinner
    edited February 28, 2012
    David_S85 wrote: »
    ^ above...

    If you are looking to get 10 stops of total ND, your best bet is a 10 stop screw on filter. Are you still planning on getting the screw on 10-stop, or are you going to try to create one from stacking filters?

    Hi David, Yes, I am still planning to get a 10 stop screw on ND filter (either Hoya or BW). After having all these filters, do I still need a polarizer? I am sorry but as I said earlier....I am new to photography. I know polarizers are to reduce glare but if I have these different stops of cokin ND filters do I still need a polarizer?

    Thanks again. Pendu
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,121 moderator
    edited February 28, 2012
    penduboy wrote: »
    ... do I still need a polarizer? I am sorry but as I said earlier....I am new to photography. I know polarizers are to reduce glare but if I have these different stops of cokin ND filters do I still need a polarizer?

    ...

    Here is a Google image link for "Polarizing Filter". Explore some of the before and after examples:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=polarizing+filter&hl=en&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=oEBNT4v0M6qriQKw_NC1Dw&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CB0Q_AUoAQ&biw=1111&bih=537
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • penduboypenduboy Registered Users Posts: 8 Beginner grinner
    edited February 28, 2012
    ziggy53 wrote: »

    Thanks Ziggy....but can't we get same effects with ND filters?
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,936 moderator
    edited February 28, 2012
    penduboy wrote: »
    Thanks Ziggy....but can't we get same effects with ND filters?

    No. ND filters only serve to restrict the amount of light entering the lens. Otherwise, the have no other effect.
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • penduboypenduboy Registered Users Posts: 8 Beginner grinner
    edited February 28, 2012
    ian408 wrote: »
    No. ND filters only serve to restrict the amount of light entering the lens. Otherwise, the have no other effect.

    Great...thanks...now the question is how can I use a screw on polarizer with my z-pro cokin system. I am planning to buy a screw on CPL and ND (10 stop) filters. Do you have any recomendations for these to work well with z-pro.

    Thanks, Pendu.
  • David_S85David_S85 Administrators Posts: 13,244 moderator
    edited February 28, 2012
    Yes. As long as the screw on polarizer has threads on the front side, you can screw on your Cokin adaptor to the polarizer's threads and then mount the holder from there. Be careful with the type of polarizer you buy. There are screw on polarizers that don't have threads - those being the thin pro types for use with semi wide angle lenses - that don't allow the Cokin adaptor to mount.
    My Smugmug
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,936 moderator
    edited February 29, 2012
    Something else to be concerned about and that is the depth of the filters. Stack too many and picture quality suffers. Not only that but you can end up with some vignetting too-so fewer is often better.
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • penduboypenduboy Registered Users Posts: 8 Beginner grinner
    edited February 29, 2012
    ^^^^Thanks David and Ian

    by depth you means the thickness of the glass of screw on filters?
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,936 moderator
    edited February 29, 2012
    Yes. Thickness of the filters combined.
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • David_S85David_S85 Administrators Posts: 13,244 moderator
    edited February 29, 2012
    penduboy wrote: »
    ^^^^Thanks David and Ian

    by depth you means the thickness of the glass of screw on filters?

    Thickness of everything there. For example, the Hoya Pro-1 CP is super thin glass and super thin ring on both sides - hence only a few threads on the lens facing side and virtually nothing on the other. So no worky with the Z Pro.

    Super thin polarizers are for wide angle lens shooting to minimize vignetting due to filter thickness. And you should never use any polarizer at super wide angles (at least skies) due to the the strange effects that it produces in blue skies across the field.
    My Smugmug
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
  • penduboypenduboy Registered Users Posts: 8 Beginner grinner
    edited February 29, 2012
    David_S85 wrote: »
    Thickness of everything there. For example, the Hoya Pro-1 CP is super thin glass and super thin ring on both sides - hence only a few threads on the lens facing side and virtually nothing on the other. So no worky with the Z Pro.

    Super thin polarizers are for wide angle lens shooting to minimize vignetting due to filter thickness. And you should never use any polarizer at super wide angles (at least skies) due to the the strange effects that it produces in blue skies across the field.

    Is it advisable to use cokin adapter ring on a screw on filter...because I heard that sometimes they get stuck and hard to separate them specially if use cokin on a circular polarizer (screw on).
  • penduboypenduboy Registered Users Posts: 8 Beginner grinner
    edited February 29, 2012
    I am looking at this set of filters from BH photo. the price is very tempting. Is it a good buy. Please help before I pull the trigger.

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/408020-REG/Hoya_GIK77GB_77mm_Introductory_Filter_Kit.html

    Thanks, Pendu
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