First time post - Desaturation issues

Sungster

I am having a desaturation issue everytime I upload pics. This only recently started and use to NOT be a problem with smugmug. Nothing has changed in my process and it use to upload fine. I am aware of color space being sRGB. I have viewed on several monitors including PC's. I use a MAC OSX. To reiteratemy process has not changed from when it worked before. I heard that there might have been a coding change that might cause the problem. Sorry if this is the wrong place for the post. Its my first time.

Andy

Hi, could you please post the pic you sent to the help desk?

Sungster

Here is the link. The last image #7260 uploaded is looking desaturated on my screen compared to the rest of the previously loaded images. CAn you see it on your screeen? Same process and upload proceedures.

http://dreamscape.smugmug.com/gallery/8426169_N4UeE#565212420_tVDWf

jfriend

Sungster wrote:

Here is the link. The last image #7260 uploaded is looking desaturated on my screen compared to the rest of the previously loaded images. CAn you see it on your screeen? Same process and upload proceedures.

http://dreamscape.smugmug.com/gallery/8426169_N4UeE#565212420_tVDWf

There are two versions of 7260 in your gallery right next to one another #1 and #2. The first one is both brighter and has less saturation. If I grab the original and put control points on it in Photoshop and set them to LAB (which separates color from luminosity), I can clearly see differences in both luminosity and color between the two different versions of the same shot. All I can say is that they must have been different when uploaded to Smugmug since Smugmug preserves the original (unless the colorspace was not sRGB in which case it converts it to sRGB).

Can you explain how you got two versions of the same image in the gallery? You must have created them both somehow.

Sungster

How do I attach a screen capture
I got a good example of what I just did from lightroom, converted to jpg for smugmug and uploaded. It came in lighter. But how do I attach the screen capture. The gallery is new
http://dreamscape.smugmug.com/gallery/8623226_crYX7#568943909_p3xFP

jfriend

Sungster wrote:

I got a good example of what I just did from lightroom, converted to jpg for smugmug and uploaded. It came in lighter. But how do I attach the screen capture. The gallery is new
http://dreamscape.smugmug.com/gallery/8623226_crYX7#568943909_p3xFP

I can see those versions. What did you do differently when creating them? The key is in how you prepared them differently.

Sungster

Versions
Oh no that link is not to the ones that are different. Those are treatments I did on purpose. If you could tell be how to attach a file I will send a screen capture of the same image side by side one prepped right before upload to smugmug and the other right after it was received.

Sungster

Here it is I think
OK I hope this works. Attached in a screen shot of the uploaded file after it posts in smugmug (the one on the right. The other is the image right before it gets uploaded. See the desaturation? Nothing changes before upload to smugmug.

jfriend

Sungster wrote:

OK I hope this works. Attached in a screen shot of the uploaded file after it posts in smugmug (the one on the right. The other is the image right before it gets uploaded. See the desaturation? Nothing changes before upload to smugmug.

Are you using Safari on a Mac as your browser?

The first thing to do is to take your image from Lightroom, export it to an sRGB JPEG on your local hard disk, then open that JPEG right from the hard disk in your browser (no upload to Smugmug yet). You should be able to do File/Open in the browser and then point at the file on disk. Then compare that view in the browser to what you saw in LR.

If you see a difference there, then it obviously has nothing to do with Smugmug - it has something to do with either a difference in LR/Safari rendering or an issue with the export process from LR.

If you don't see a difference there, then please upload that JPEG to a Smugmug gallery that has originals enabled and post a link to that gallery and I will download the original and take a look at it.

Sungster

OK Tried it
OK here is the screen shot of the image inlocal mac browser (not safari). Side by side with the lightroom image. It IS shifting upon upload to smugmug.

Andy

Sungster wrote:

OK here is the screen shot of the image inlocal mac browser (not safari).

That's preview. Jfriend said to open it in Safari on our mac - drag the fle to safari, or right click, open in Safari.

Sungster

I did it

Andy wrote:

That's preview. Jfriend said to open it in Safari on our mac - drag the fle to safari, or right click, open in Safari.

OK I dragged the image into safari and it is exactly like the image should be. So all is pointing to smugmug.

jfriend

Sungster wrote:

OK I dragged the image into safari and it is exactly like the image should be. So all is pointing to smugmug.

Then, please do the next step I asked and post a link to it when you've done so.

Sungster

Link
Sorry not familiar with how that works. Do I just cut and past the url. But how could that be since is on my computer and not pushed to the web? I'm not clear on that last step.

jfriend

Sungster wrote:

Sorry not familiar with how that works. Do I just cut and past the url. But how could that be since is on my computer and not pushed to the web? I'm not clear on that last step.

Here's what I wrote in my prior post:

If you don't see a difference there, then please upload that JPEG to a Smugmug gallery that has originals enabled and post a link to that gallery and I will download the original and take a look at it.

rutt

Do you have somewhere you can upload the photo where we can access it OTHER than smugmug? A mobileme account, for example, or a blog or a wiki?

Sungster

Link
OK Here's the link to the smugmug gallery with original available. Check out the same shot that I've been posting. I just noticed that when I select original the color seems to come back but any other size is desaturated. So looks like theres a bug. But you tell me.

http://dreamscape.smugmug.com/gallery/8623226_crYX7#568945459_dJSsJ

jfriend

Sungster wrote:

OK Here's the link to the smugmug gallery with original available. Check out the same shot that I've been posting. I just noticed that when I select original the color seems to come back but any other size is desaturated. So looks like theres a bug. But you tell me.

http://dreamscape.smugmug.com/gallery/8623226_crYX7#568945459_dJSsJ

All sizes look the same to me in Firefox 3 with color-management enabled. The original shows sRGB which is as it should be. What browser are you viewing them in and is it color-managed?

rutt

There does seem to be a very subtle color shift here. I can't see it but I can measure it.

Here is what I did:

1. Download both original and X3 sizes.
2. Open both in photoshop.
3. Resize original to 800x534 pixels (need to use unconstrained resize. For some reason SM's resize of off by a pixel or so. Roundoff of some sort? Shouldn't be.)
4. Layer resized original over L.
5. Set some colorsampler points
6. Toggle visibility of original layer and watch the values.

When I toggle, I can't see the difference, but the numbers do read a little different. I have uploaded a psd file with the layering and sampler points; get it here.

I don't know if this is measuring the right thing. The difference is very subtle. I'd never see it. Sungster, please download the layered file and see if the differences between layers is what you see on smugmug.

I can easily imagine that resampling would cause some color differences at some points...

jfriend

rutt wrote:

There does seem to be a very subtle color shift here. I can't see it but I can measure it.

Here is what I did:

1. Download both original and X3 sizes.
2. Open both in photoshop.
3. Resize original to 800x534 pixels (need to use unconstrained resize. For some reason SM's resize of off by a pixel or so. Roundoff of some sort? Shouldn't be.)
4. Layer resized original over L.
5. Set some colorsampler points
6. Toggle visibility of original layer and watch the values.

When I toggle, I can't see the difference, but the numbers do read a little different. I have uploaded a psd file with the layering and sampler points; get it here.

I don't know if this is measuring the right thing. The difference is very subtle. I'd never see it. Sungster, please download the layered file and see if the differences between layers is what you see on smugmug.

I can easily imagine that resampling would cause some color differences at some points...

When Smugmug resamples to make the web versions, they also sharpen which will change the image a bit too. Nothing visible from the standpoint of color, but if you were looking at the numbers, that could contribute to slight numeric differences.

Sungster

Ok
I downloaded the file and yours looks pretty saturated when I pull into photoshop but does not look the same when I view it outside of photoshop. See comparison to the file on my computer. I'm not sure what's going on to cause this. I'm not as technical as you guys so is there a magical setting that I'm missing.

Sungster

Another
See here it is pulled into photoshop

Sungster

Here's whats happening
I just uploaded another image and there is a saturation shift between the different image sizes. So in the past example the shift occurs anything below Original size so it loses color. In the new image it happens between going from medium to large. See for yourself. Click on medium size then on large size. Color desaturates. Drives me really crazy....

http://dreamscape.smugmug.com/gallery/8652554_wgdoW#571088593_BzLgr-M-LB

jfriend

Sungster wrote:

I just uploaded another image and there is a saturation shift between the different image sizes. So in the past example the shift occurs anything below Original size so it loses color. In the new image it happens between going from medium to large. See for yourself. Click on medium size then on large size. Color desaturates. Drives me really crazy....

http://dreamscape.smugmug.com/gallery/8652554_wgdoW#571088593_BzLgr-M-LB

I don't see a color change between M and L sizes. That leads me to suspect it's something with your system configuration.

Is there a reason you didn't answer my question about what browser you're viewing these in?

rutt

What if you turn on and off the visibility of the top layer in photoshop? I've circled the button in red.

Sungster

jfriend wrote:

I don't see a color change between M and L sizes. That leads me to suspect it's something with your system configuration.

Is there a reason you didn't answer my question about what browser you're viewing these in?

Sorry probably because I just missed the question. I'm viewing in Safari OS 10.4.11

Sungster

jfriend wrote:

I don't see a color change between M and L sizes. That leads me to suspect it's something with your system configuration.

Is there a reason you didn't answer my question about what browser you're viewing these in?

Curious how system configuration might affect going between to different viewing sizes within smugmug. Just trying to understand it better.

Sungster

rutt wrote:

What if you turn on and off the visibility of the top layer in photoshop? I've circled the button in red.

Can you explain how that might affect the desaturation between image sizes? Thanks.

jfriend

Sungster wrote:

Can you explain how that might affect the desaturation between image sizes? Thanks.

I don't know. Chances are it has something to do with colorspaces on the images and the interaction of that with color management on your system. But, since I can't see the problem here, I really have no idea what's causing it or how to debug further.

rutt

Sungster wrote:

Can you explain how that might affect the desaturation between image sizes? Thanks.

It's supposed to be a very controlled experiment. The two layers are the original image and smugmug's X3 image resized (by photoshop) to the same size. The colors are not exactly the same as measured by photoshop, but neither jfriend nor I can see the difference and we don't think it's significant.

If you can see the difference, it eliminates all the software on your system (except) photoshop. Both images are viewed by the very same color controlled software. If you can't see the difference, it tends to point the finger at some configuration of your system or at your browser.

Sungster

rutt wrote:

It's supposed to be a very controlled experiment. The two layers are the original image and smugmug's X3 image resized (by photoshop) to the same size. The colors are not exactly the same as measured by photoshop, but neither jfriend nor I can see the difference and we don't think it's significant.

If you can see the difference, it eliminates all the software on your system (except) photoshop. Both images are viewed by the very same color controlled software. If you can't see the difference, it tends to point the finger at some configuration of your system or at your browser.

I tried what you said. I see no difference. So is there anything I can try to adjust. I can't live with this frustration anymore!