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Newbie, need help fast, pretty please
IdahoMotomom
Registered Users Posts: 60 Big grins
I just picked up a Sigma 70/200 f/2.8 lens and am leaving for Washougal to shoot a professional MX race in a few weeks. I will be practicing a bit beforehand, but have been shooting with kit lenses with mediocre success.
Is someone willing to post settings for me to work with to start off? I've been doing my research, but am a bit unfamiliar as I shot in sports mode for the last year. My bad!
This is a recent photo of my husband on his new Suzuki 450.
We started riding m/c and motocross exactly one year ago, I ride a Honda CRF 150RB, my 9 yo daughter rides a Suzuki 65 2-stroke!
Thank you for your help I look forward to learning about all of you, there are just not enough hours in the day it seems!
Is someone willing to post settings for me to work with to start off? I've been doing my research, but am a bit unfamiliar as I shot in sports mode for the last year. My bad!
This is a recent photo of my husband on his new Suzuki 450.
We started riding m/c and motocross exactly one year ago, I ride a Honda CRF 150RB, my 9 yo daughter rides a Suzuki 65 2-stroke!
Thank you for your help I look forward to learning about all of you, there are just not enough hours in the day it seems!
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What camera do you have? Russ Erbe is really good at mx shooting, hopefully he will chime in soon. There is a lot of good info in the thread that j-bo posted for you. From the looks of your pic, I would change the F-stop to between f4.5 to f5.6 this will give you better depth of field and make more of your image in focus.
Best wishes,
Kelly
Thanks Kelly, I appreciate the compliment.
Idahomotomom, J-bo lead you in the right direction. There is alot of info right there.
I only shoot in Manual Mode and I try to stay around F/4 - F/5.6 with a shutter speed around 800. I also always shoot with a CP filter if I'm outside. I never shoot in auto ISO either. I preach to everyone to get to know their camera really well and learn to shoot in Manual mode. That way, you aren't depending on your camera to produce a good shot. However, I understand that you don't have a lot of time and you need time to learn to shoot well in Manual mode.
Try your best to keep the sun at your back or side, use flash, try to shoot tight enough to capture the eyes. Corners are the best place to shoot because they lean the bikes over and the sun covers it and there is also a roostertail of dirt.
I shoot with a D700 with a Nikkor 70-200 F/2.8 VR probably 90% of the time at SX and MX.
Post some more pics that we can analyze for you and don't post them so big from now on so that we can see the whole picture at the same time.
http://www.RussErbePhotography.com :thumb
http://www.sportsshooter.com/erbeman
D700, D300, Nikkor 35-70 F/2.8, Nikkor 50mm F/1.8, Nikkor 70-200 AF-S VR F/2.8, Nikkor AF-S 1.7 teleconverter II,(2) Profoto D1 500 Air,SB-900, SB-600, (2)MB-D10, MacBook Pro
+/- EV example
<hr style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" size="1"> <!-- / icon and title --> <!-- message --> Here is a bright day, late, and shooting in both directions: (only PP done is sharpening and crops)
First is front lit with a bright sun and EV set to -0.7 to control the whites:
Second taken with sun at back EV set to +0.3 to open up face under helmet...
Troy, MI
D700/200, SB800(4), 70-200, 300 2.8 and a few more
www.sportsshooter.com/tjk60
I will also learn how to post a smaller image. The shot I posted has not been PP, it was straight from the camera. I picked up a digital sports photography book today and lunch and will gleen through that as quickly as I can. My husband wasn't so happy about me buying a new "used" Sigma lens with 2x teleconverter for $500, but it was a deal I could not pass up.
Thanks for your help. I look forward to learning so much more!
Bright sunny day, shoot F4-F5.6 at ISO 100/200. Too dark or cloudy? Bump up the ISO. If the photos are still too dark, then lower your aperture a stop. Too bright? I don't think so with an ISO of 100 at F5.6. But if so, bump the aperture up another spot.
Yes..those will be stop action photo's that come out (and the majority of MX/SX are that way anyway), but you want simple and a place to start.
Once you start learning more, you can start going into manual mode (like Russ stated) and slowing the shutter speeds down (1/800 or so) and playing with other settings to get the shot how you want it to be. Once you get good at that, they you can really be fancy and get some nice panning shots at really slow shutter speeds.
You're just starting out and need something quick and easy. Don't worry about flash yet either, or understanding exposure compensation just yet, those are IMO, advanced users techniques.
You can't go wrong with the above settings, I guarantee it.
Your photo above suffers from too slow of a shutter speed, not aperture size, IMO.
No Offense, but your suggestions of compensating for missed exposures with ISO and aperture adjustments while in Av mode are missleading and incorect.
If the camera is underexposing or overexposing in Av mode then it is a metering issue, and changing your ISO or Aperture are not going to solve the problem. The camera will simply readjust it's calculations to give you the exact same exposure.
In Av mode to correct a missed exposure you need to do 2 things. 1st Ensure that you are set to the correct metering area, Global, center weighted, or spot. I would go with center weighted in this scenario, 2nd is adjusting the +/- exposure compensation, this will tell the camera that you wish to overide it's program by a certain amount. Expose for the faces, if they are on the dark side than you would increase the Exposure compensation to +.3 or .7 or 1 ans so on depending on what you need, if the faces are too bright then you go the other way - .3 etc.
I strive to expose properly for every shot but will err on the side of underexposed faces.
I don't know any professional MX shooters, but I do know quite a few pro BMX and street bike shooters and most (along with myself) prefer to shoot in manual in most situations. But every situation requires assessment.
*Edited to change underscore to a minus sign*
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo
Hmm.. okay... Maybe my explanation wasn't so good or something.
She is trying to learn something easy and quick.. I don't know many newbs that can jump in manual mode and be an expert.
And I do guarantee if she follows my instructions she'll not only get some nice quality shots, but she'll get an understanding on how aperture, ISO, and shutter speed interact. Those obviously are the things you are constantly changing while shooting in Manual mode.
Example:
She chooses F8 in Av mode with an ISO of 100..her photo is too dark, we'll skip the reasons why... if she increases her ISO to 800, her photo will now be lighter... NO?
She chooses F8 in Av mode with an ISO of 100.. her photo is too dark... she changes her aperture to F2.8...her photo will now be lighter.. NO?
Maybe I've been messed up all these years and didn't know it.
But this is what I shoot:
No
No
No need to take it personally, it's just that what you are suggesting is incorrect.
When in Aperture priority mode you are telling the camera you want to dictate the aperture value and are then asking it to set the shutter speed appropriately to obtain the "correct exposure".
"correct exposure" = The camera is generally seeking to expose the photo so that the light value elements within the metering area will render a value of 50% grey.
In your scenarios, as I mentioned in my first post, the only thing you are accomplishing is asking the camera to recalculate the shutter speed to provide the "correct exposure" (which would be the same remember "correct exposure"). Thus the beauty (and beast) of Aperture priority, and again no offense but wouldn't flicking the exp/comp one way or the other be just as easy (or easier) for the beginner as going and changing the iso or aperture? With a + for more light and a - for less light? adding in the fact that it is the correct way to use the mode, and that any results from your suggestion would be merely incidental to the camera metering from a different location.
Since your suggestion is flawed it really doesn't provide the beginner with an understanding of the exposure triangle. More likely to be met with frustration when the results are not as predicted.
I'm not suggesting that the newb jump into manual mode, I think Aperture priority mode is a great step forward beyond full auto, and when the newb uses it correctly, pays attention to how it works, and then understands why it does the things it does then it will definitely lend itself to further knowledge. My statement regarding manual mode was directed at
Related to your suggestion that I am constantly fussing with my settings, truth be told, the fussing is less than what it would be if you were using Aperture priority and making adjustments appropriately to compensate for the camera metering in ways you don't want it to.
Also as I mentioned before every situation requires assessment, and there are times where I will elect to go with Aperture priority, but if I elect to go with manual mode, you can rest assured that I will have more consistent results with less fuss than someone next to me in Av.
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo
Also as I mentioned before every situation requires assessment, and there are times where I will elect to go with Aperture priority, but if I elect to go with manual mode, you can rest assured that I will have more consistent results with less fuss than someone next to me in Av.
with a caveat: In even light.
I have shot all manual (and do most of the time)
I've shot in AP (Av) mode using auto ISO or +/-EV
I use the tool I need to get the right shot.
Troy, MI
D700/200, SB800(4), 70-200, 300 2.8 and a few more
www.sportsshooter.com/tjk60
ISO would be the absolute last thing I would leave up to the camera to decide,
Amen!
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
The OP has quite a challenge ahead. Shooting a professional MX race in the near future and not knowing how to shoot MX? Its a tall order. Get to a local track, shot a LOT of amatuers. Fiddle with Av mode. Fiddle with Tv mode (my preferred mode for all types of motorsports). But LEARN THE SPORT. When will a rider be likely to do something interesting? Do you know when they will reach for the clutch or the brake? How about when their inside leg will be fully extended in the turn? The timing to capture a jump at its peak? Can you follow a fast moving rider and keep the bike in-frame, and not chop a wheel or the top of a helmet?
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
http://www.RussErbePhotography.com :thumb
http://www.sportsshooter.com/erbeman
D700, D300, Nikkor 35-70 F/2.8, Nikkor 50mm F/1.8, Nikkor 70-200 AF-S VR F/2.8, Nikkor AF-S 1.7 teleconverter II,(2) Profoto D1 500 Air,SB-900, SB-600, (2)MB-D10, MacBook Pro
I watch to many newbie manual shooters that cannot quickly change settings when going from shade to sun light, into the light vs light over their shoulder. that can be several stops and a disaster.
I have a camera (D700) that does extremely well to hi ISO (6400). In fast moving action I get good results with setting the shutter, aperture I need to get the blur and DOF I need and letting the camera help out a bit.
I agree the OP has quite a challenge. We don't know why she is shooting an pro race... For a newspaper? Web? magazine?
Most likely personal reasons and she has a long learning curve. If the light doesn't change, set it and forget it on Manual using something close to Sunny16 or use a meter. If it does, then I think letting the camera help in the beginning is a good idea....
Troy, MI
D700/200, SB800(4), 70-200, 300 2.8 and a few more
www.sportsshooter.com/tjk60
http://www.RussErbePhotography.com :thumb
http://www.sportsshooter.com/erbeman
D700, D300, Nikkor 35-70 F/2.8, Nikkor 50mm F/1.8, Nikkor 70-200 AF-S VR F/2.8, Nikkor AF-S 1.7 teleconverter II,(2) Profoto D1 500 Air,SB-900, SB-600, (2)MB-D10, MacBook Pro
I miss spoke,
Better put would be, auto ISO would be a setting that I would never use. If I choose to be in Av mode then I have an idea of what Shutter speed range I am going to be in, adding auto ISO to the mix would only mess that up, and there is really no need to add another variable to the mix.
I will however admit that I do not have an extensive knowledge of how (technically) auto ISO works on my camera, but I can not come up with any good reasons to leave that decision up to the camera. I would prefer to set my ISO appropriately corresponding with my desired Aperture and shutter speed.
Further more, I believe that there would indeed be a few situations where ISO is more important than shutter speed, but those don't pertain to this thread.
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo
Shutter speed priority for motorsports, so look at your focal length and set it at 1/focal length.
If you're at 200mm, set shutter speed at 1/200
Check histograms and use exposure compensation up or down.
Follow riders early to get AF lock, then fire away when they are in the position you want them to be in.
Use continuous focus or Servo A.I on a Canon.
ISO can be set at probably 400 for indoors, 100 if outdoors in sunlight.
I did exactly this last weekend at MotoGP (set it to shutter speed priority at 1/500 with my Bigma 50-500), set WB and ISO to Auto and had good results.
This is a different scenario then your original post, where you suggested using auto ISO in AP. The D700 is truly an amazing machine and performs magic at high ISO, I'm going to try auto ISO in a few situations where it seems useful and see what happens. I'm brave enough to learn new things, the fear of high ISO is so last year D200
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo
Nice pic Rookie.
Now if all of you would just learn to shoot in full manual, you wouldn't have all of these problems that you guys are arguing about. I feel auto focus and metering should be the only thing that you rely on the camera to do for you.
http://www.RussErbePhotography.com :thumb
http://www.sportsshooter.com/erbeman
D700, D300, Nikkor 35-70 F/2.8, Nikkor 50mm F/1.8, Nikkor 70-200 AF-S VR F/2.8, Nikkor AF-S 1.7 teleconverter II,(2) Profoto D1 500 Air,SB-900, SB-600, (2)MB-D10, MacBook Pro
That said, the metering on my previous camera was very unreliable so I never trusted it. I still shoot full manual from time to time though, but it all depends on the situation.
D200 ISO was good maybe to 800.
Auto ISO in the D700 is great. I use it in both manual mode and sometimes in AP mode.
The ISO is the last of the 3 that the camera changes, so it gives you all the control until it needs to kick in....
Troy, MI
D700/200, SB800(4), 70-200, 300 2.8 and a few more
www.sportsshooter.com/tjk60
Ahh, I do use AWB most of the time. I forgot about that. I am going to start using different WB's soon though. I'm going to start trying to shoot artistic MX shots as well as typical just to be different and stand out.
http://www.RussErbePhotography.com :thumb
http://www.sportsshooter.com/erbeman
D700, D300, Nikkor 35-70 F/2.8, Nikkor 50mm F/1.8, Nikkor 70-200 AF-S VR F/2.8, Nikkor AF-S 1.7 teleconverter II,(2) Profoto D1 500 Air,SB-900, SB-600, (2)MB-D10, MacBook Pro
and so I continue to learn. at what point does it kick in? I mean, your in AP the camera is making the appropriate adjustments to SS to maintain exposure, when does it decide to bump the ISO? I'm assuming that it is programmed to use the lowest possible ISO, I don't see a place to set the min SS? Similar to setting your max and min ISO for auto?
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo
If you go to the menu for auto ISO, you need to set the MAX ISO you'll accept and the MIN shutter speed you'll allow before the ISO increases.
the ISO only changes when teh camera cannot keep the shutter/Aperture/ISO combo you set.
In manual mode, it'll keep the aperture and shutter constant and just raise/lower the ISO.
In AP mode, it'll keep the ISO you set until it cannot keep the shutter above or equal to the minimum you set in the Auto ISO menu.
Try this, I think you love it. It's like cheating....
Troy, MI
D700/200, SB800(4), 70-200, 300 2.8 and a few more
www.sportsshooter.com/tjk60
While I am a rookie rider and shooter, I do understand where the apex of a corner is, when to use the clutch, where to hit the power on the take off of a jump, when to shift and yes, I also know that a one finger or two finger grab on the clutch is ideal, not the three fingers my husband is showing in the photo I posted. (To his defense, this was the first couple of laps on his new bike and he had adjusted the clutch and he was reaching for it, it has now been adjusted and he is back to two fingers.)
I posted I was shooting a professional motocross race, I did not state I was professionally shooting a professional motocross race. I am attending with my family and want to get some good shots for my benefit, nobody else's benefit.
Last, I appreciate all of the help and guidance you have contributed this thread. I've printed this thread out and when I'm out at the track, dressed in my gear, mx boots with my new baby slung over my neck, I'll try to put all of these things to the test and then after I'm dusty, sweaty and tired from riding and shooting all day, I'll download my photos and see how I did. If I have some keepers, I will post them for your critique.
To share a little of who I am, I've posted (not the best resolution because I'm not on my own computer...) a photo I took last year at the beach with my family and a photo that my husband took of of my daughter and I before leaving for her first JoBros concert. No critiquing of this photo is allowed
Thanks!
Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner! My man Tim Kelly gets it! It's that dang easy once you understand how it all works together. A CP filter will cut down the light so you aren't shooting at 1/4000 and ISO can bring you back up when you need it. Well done sir
http://www.RussErbePhotography.com :thumb
http://www.sportsshooter.com/erbeman
D700, D300, Nikkor 35-70 F/2.8, Nikkor 50mm F/1.8, Nikkor 70-200 AF-S VR F/2.8, Nikkor AF-S 1.7 teleconverter II,(2) Profoto D1 500 Air,SB-900, SB-600, (2)MB-D10, MacBook Pro
not a sports shooter.....but an outdoor shooter and the one thing never touched on was shooting in raw.
Maybe you already do shoot in raw format but if you don't I would start doing so now......the ability to properly post process a photo to its fullest extent is just wonderful. My first few thousand pics were all in jpg mode and when i wanted to work on them it was horrible and tiresome (ps4).......then raw came out and I have been on the band wagon ever since......nope I am not a sloppy shooter and I too shoot manaul a lot but also use aperture priority a lot and some of shutter priority and do my very best to get it totally correct in cam.......so 99.9% of my post processing is done in Lightroom and consists of wb, a touch of sat and contrast and that is about it...aside from adding meta info and my copy right (which is also done by my D300(s)....Ps it self is now mostly used for sharpeing with unsharp mask and that is it.
Good Luck with your race and shooting...............
and I continue to learn, I was obviously not very familiar with the auto ISO menu, in my defense I never really went there. I am a little bummed by the fact that I can't set the min SS above 250,(D300), So it won't come into play as much as I would've liked. I will be putting it to the test a few times though in the manual setting. Thank you for the knowledge.
but he's suggesting a bunch of auto settings, aren't you against that?
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo