advice on studio lighting?
lilmomma
Registered Users Posts: 1,060 Major grins
I bought some lights over the weekend...it was a continuous lighting package, which I thought would work for now since i didn't have the money to invest in triggers and meters and all that. Well I actually really like the results, but the one thing that concerns me is that it gets SOOOO hot. I accidently had my umbrella up too close to the light and it melted part of it. It also melted the base of the light a little, and there is a smell coming from it like it's melting the pole part of the umbrella as well. Anyone else experience this? I'm wondering if I should take it back and just spend the extra money on a strobe kit? :dunno
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However, there is now fluorescent continuous lighting, which produces no heat, and has a white light spectrum - color temperature. You might like to investigate this newer system.
It's disappointing, of course, but I think that, if at all possible, you really should abandon the halogens.
I'd also suggest, while you are considering the options, to get a hold of the Strobist Lighting Seminar. You might well be convinced that you can achieve most of what you want with smart and creative use of one or more camera mount flashes used off camera, such as the Canon Speedlights. They don't have to be the latest hardest core, they can be manual. You might find some 2nd hand bargains.
Neil
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
Speedlights won't be the end-all solution for your studio needs, I'm sure, but you can get into it and learn lighting with very little cost.
Using flash lighting also yields larger eye pupils, which most folks find more flattering in a portrait.
Hot lights can still be valuable for background lighting or still lifes, but with the cost of inexpensive slaved (and slave-able) electronic flash, the benefits of hot lights are greatly diminished. Cool continuous lights, fluorescent lights primarily, are great lights for BW photography, and the high-end units are used for some commercial color work.
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=371642&postcount=19
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=371788&postcount=33
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=371799&postcount=35
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=381965&postcount=37
Daylight balanced compact fluorescent are OK now for objects that don't require tight color balance, but I don't think they are quite ready for most portraiture or other applications which require more subtle and accurate tonality. The reason is that inexpensive daylight balanced compact fluorescent phosphors are still not a complete continuous spectra.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lights#Phosphors_and_the_spectrum_of_emitted_light
Compare this to a true daylight spectra:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunlight#Life_on_Earth
I would agree that the Strobist approach is budget wise a very cost effective solution using lower cost speedlights. You do not get modelling lights so positioning needs to be done carefully.
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I may try out fluorescents, but will it be the same wattage? the ones in there now are 500w a piece..can you get that high in fluorescent bulbs?
I may also check around on the speedlight setup. I have an sb600 that I mounted on the stand with the umbrella, and even with the FC up 2 stops it didn't seem to produce the power of light of just one bulb. Also, I can't shoot continuously. I can for a few shots but then I need to give my flash time to recycle.
The thing is, I don't really mind that the light is so hot, i'm just a little concerned about the fumes!
Get a couple or three of these, a couple or three EBay triggers (Art Scott, among others can point you in the right direction for that) and you're good to go. If you work the "strobist way", you don't even need a light meter - but that comes with practice (I'm still on that path and wonder if I'll ever "arrive"
Shooting continuously is not, usually, all it's cracked up to be unless you are shooting action (sports, theater, wedding, wedding reception, etc). You'll get a lot more mileage from careful shot planning. Take a couple of exposures and chimp to evaluate the results of that planning.
As for the hot lights and the associated risks - yes fumes are a consideration, but the risk of fire is even more of a risk. You've already melted part of an umbrella and you are smelling hot metal. Both are good signs you are only a small step from an uncontrolled exothermic chemical reaction (a house fire!).
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Scott-Ok ok my arm is twisted. I like the lights but my gut is telling me I need to go the other route. I don't understand why they make those setups so dangerous. Seems odd to me. So say I take the stuff back, what will i need for a basic setup? I'm thinking two of the sb20's, two light stands, and i'll keep my umbrella's, and something to trigger them, which is the part i don't know anything about. Can those be used as a slave with the sb600? then you say that I don't need a meter, so I'm guessing the sb20's just be set to M, then I'd shoot and adjust the output for what i'm needing. I guess that doesn't sound bad, but it does sound like it will take lots of practice.
Anyway once again thanks to all for the advice. I think my lights will be making a trip back to the store this evening.
You can find these a little cheaper (I spent $25 each on a couple that I have) occassionally on Craigslist or Ebay, but that's not always effective use of time.
Flash Zebra sells all the flash trimmings (hotshoe adapters, umbrella brackets, optical triggers, etc.) at a very reasonable price with excellent service. It seems their site is down today but it should be coming back up (I hope).
A rough shopping list might include:
Nikon SB-20 @ B&H or simliar speedlight. If you're using umbrellas or brolly boxes these need not rotate around or have fancy LCD screens on them. The Vivitars Scott mentioned are also great for this.
2 White Umbrellas Don't forget eBay for these. The quality is pretty much identical to the cheapo umbrellas at B&H and you can find them for $5 or $6 depending on the day.
2 Umbrella brackets. These are the things that attach the umbrella, and the flash, to a stand. Make sure the brackets you get come with the cold shoe and the metal studs that insert into the bracket.
2 Optical Slaves. Check Flash Zebra (when they come back online) for these. B&H has them but they're twice as expensive. Alternatively, you can try some of the ebay sellers. There's not a world of difference between a really cheap optical slave and a really expensive as far as I'm concerned. These can be fired by the on-camera flash or the SB-600. Be careful when using CLS, though, as the preflashes will inadvertently fire your slaved flashes.
(Optional) Radio Trigger + Receivers. I chose CyberSyncs but many folks have excellent luck with the Cactus triggers Scott spoke about. Art, or one of the other Cactus users, can certainly point you in the right direction for them. You can also use a combination of Radio triggers and optical slaves. For a while I used a single CyberSync receiver for one flash and optical slaves on the others.
2 Light Stands ... or 3 or 4 or however many you need for the number of lights you buy. These don't have to be anything fancy to start off -- especially if you're working indoors. Also, consider a small backlight stand if you have an extra flash for a backlight. The regular stands are just too large to stay out of the way for that job.
I think that should get you started. Let me know if you have any questions bout the gear.
Despite the high cost of living, it remains popular.
Why do people post their equipment in their sig. Isn't it kind of like bragging? That having been said...
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But, unless you are doing this for $$$$, that practice is part of the fun. It's easiest to start with using just on flash/strobe and figure out how that behaves. Then add a reflector (a white foamcore board works well for this) and see what you can do. Now, substitute a second flash for the reflector - hmm, now you have to work with balancing the output from the flashes to deliver the lighting ratio you are wanting. Fun stuff ! And, really not very difficult.
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Scott is correct in that I do recommend the lesser expensive EBAy Triggers from photogearok ........they have a working distance of approx 150' and I have never had one fail....I had one arrive DOA ....but it was replaced without a hitch.....the ones I linked to above are 16 channels....you can get 4 channel ones but if your going beyoond the confines of your studio I suggest going up to 16 channels to make sure someone else is not using yur frequency....als o they are readio frequency, not IR beams.........
O also suggest getting the $5 adapter that is shown in the photo and marked as not included.......
I am also a huge propent of the Vivatar 285 strobes and the ebay seller that I linked you to (CAMETA CAMERA).....if you have the money for 2 to 5 sb900 then go that route so you can possibly maintain i-ttl capablilty.....but it sounds like you don't have that kind of money so I strongly suggest the Vivatar 285's......they were the PRO's workhorse Premier flash unit for several decades....STROBISTS REVIEW OF THE V285HV....I am so glad Vivitar saw the light and fixed the flash voltage and lowered it to 6v to be safe in all digital cams......
A few of these.....errrrr........1 for each flash.......This isn ot the only type it was just what poped up with my search
A brollybox for each light use for main or fill..........Other companies make Brolleyboxes, I just happen to like Paul Buff/White Lightning/Alien Bee products due to their FANFRICKINTASTIC CUSTOMER SUPPORT.....I also use WHITE LIGHTNING studio strobes.........
You can find really good light meters on the net realivily cheap (under $200) used.....Sekonic is a great brand and easy to learn....shot and chimp using your historgram is good but time consuming especially if you are with a client and especially if the subject is a clients child.......so really you need a meter....if you can squeeze the purse and drip just enuff blood to purchase one it will in time save your behind and that one time will make you wonder why you did not have one sooner to carry with you......
Here is my Minolta Flash Meter lll that I have on EBAY....it is a fantastic meter, but I wanted one with a spot meter built in for landscaping and sky shots where i knew there were several stops difference and needed to average out the difference of figure out how many shots I needed for HDRing the scene......so I now have a Sekonic L558.......
As Ziggy pointed out using manual strobes for lighting you have no modeling light.....I gaff taped a small "MAG LITE" to the flash head and aimed it as straight ahead as possible to see where I was shooting the center of the flash....it does help................
Forgive me if this was already suggested and I missed it, but have you considered getting a 2nd Nikon flash (eg the 900 or whatever the model is - sorry, not a Nikon gal!) and using that + your existing Nikon flash + triggers? That would presumably give you a good across the board setup that might not cost that much more than a full strobist rig (again, I'm not Nikon, so forgive me if I'm unintentionally suggesting something out of the price range!) Just seems to me that way you can go ttl or manual as your need arises....
Just a thought.
Unfortunately....using camera brand flashes and relying on the systems own IR contollers so you can keep with ttl is very limiting in distance and also very limiting for out of studio or just out door shooting....for instance....my brand new Nikon SB900 mounted on a flash bracket with the D300....no cables....works in commander mode with the lil poop up flash (yup I meant poop up)....but as soon as i step out doors....it no longer works....nothing to reflect that poop up flash set at 128 power to fire the 900......I found this out 2 days past my deadline to return it to best buy or I could have had 5 - Viv. 285HV's for the same money and since I do use a meter for off camera flash and already have a set of 5 triggers (for my studio strobes) then I was actually already set.....but I have found the SB900 to be so far the most intellengent of all new computerized flashes i have owned in the past several years.......
I am looking heavily at the Paul Buff/White Lightning/Alien
Bee CYCBER SYNCS....as I have heard that they allow your flashes to ttl communicate....if so then that will be fantastic for the pros that want to save space and use hotshoe mount strobes for all lighting.......but they do cost more than my now $22 flash triggers
i currently use:D
I am going with Divamum on this.
if your budget will allow get:
1) SB900 x3
2) 1 radio trigger + 3 receivers
This will give you mounted fill flash SB900 + 2 SB900 off camera strobes + 1 SB600. So you can some combination of main light, rim light, back drop light, hair light, etc.
If you are working in one area that is receptive to bounced flashes and need to save up for radio triggers then you can use your D90 as master and have 4 off camera strobes until money is there.
As for triggers..radio poppers, Pocket wizards or some off brand (I am waiting on the nikon veriosn o fthe new pocket wizards myself).
14-24 24-70 70-200mm (vr2)
85 and 50 1.4
45 PC and sb910 x2
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(rest of the series here: http://mkayser.smugmug.com/gallery/9127338_ziULN/1/608442309_NDXYb )
But, as time was going on I kept smelling this wierd smell, and it was getting really hot in my living room. I apparently had my umbrella too close to the bulb and it melted the base of the spokes! But not only that it melted the base of where the bulb goes in. Not good... So as much as I loved the lighting output, I can't deal with the seemingly dangerous fumes. Anyway I took everything back today except the umbrellas but the store is a little pricey and don't have much of the stuff mentioned here so i'm back to the gift card. And my aunt had to reschedule so I didn't get to do the maternity session with them.
Diva- yes I had considered that, but i was really trying to stay within the price range of >250 for the most basic setup. Now I have 2 umbrellas, but only one flash now, no light stands or flash adapters. almost back to square one.
Seymore- I am shooting people. I should've come here and asked before I made the decision to buy the kit!
So now I think the decision is now this: two vivitars/or sb-20's, 2 light stands, 2 umbrella adapters and something to trigger all this with.
Anyway I appreciate all the feedback and advice from everyone and I'm sure i'll have more questions as i purchase my setup. You guys all rock, thanks!!
Citation required, as they say in Wikipedia!
Not saying you aren't right, but would be interesting to read of your or others' experience with the new fluorescent continuous lighting.
I have two Excella Sprint 300 (but I am also on the trail of the Strobist!
Here's an example of what they can do:
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
But, in the interest of full and free discussion, consider taking flourescent lighting outdoors to the park across the street. Or taking it on a location shoot. Portability and versatility - but these come at the price of having to learn how to use these tools.
But I do agree. You have generated some very nice results - as demonstrated by the photo you included - no doubt about it.
And, I can see the attraction of being able to turn on the lights and see what you are going to get. To me, that is just too easy and feels almost like cheating. A lot of the pleasure I get from portrait work is being able to visualize what it is I want, then (in the dark as it were) setting the lights into the "proper" position and setting the power ratios. When I press the shutter button and see the result - I get a little rush that comes from that sense of accomplishement.
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Speedlight flashes have both a (fairly) continuous spectrum and variability in output (depending on the model and situation), lacking only the modeling light feature.
I use both compact flo and speedlights, as well as studio monolights and handle-bracket flash as well when the need requires. You can never have too much light or too many options.
For references relating to continuous spectrum, I already provided links in a previous reply to this thread.
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like would these work??
http://www.cccamera.com/spec_sheet.html?catalog{name]=PROMASTER%C2%AE-FT-1700-Flashes-and-speedlights&catalog[product_guids][0]=fe48aa1c-e3e8-46bb-983b-27dc842ee677
or this?
http://www.cccamera.com/spec_sheet.html?catalog[name]=PROMASTER%C2%AE-FTD-5550-DX-Flashes-and-speedlights&catalog[product_guids][0]=a3785cf9-8b77-4581-a4e0-7925f17e8e58
If it's all going to be off camera anyway, what do I need to be looking for?
I wish I could give you this information as fully and as entertainingly as David Hobby (Strobist) does in his Lighting Seminar. I don't think anyway that there is a short answer. What you are asking about is as much a "philosophy" of lighting as plain technique. So, although it will take you a day or two to get the Strobist way under your belt, I think you would get the most benefit from it, and have all your questions answered.
You need to be able to adjust power and spread and size and softness and color of light from your speedlights (by automatic electronics, or manual settings, umbrellas etc, filters etc, gobos etc) and your camera needs to be able to communicate with-trigger the flashes. That's it! (Without all the essential philosophy I mentioned).
N
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
For a remotely operated flash you want a flash with manual output controls. It's also nice to have a fairly high output so that you can use modifiers to condition the light.
I do recommend the Vivitar 285HV as they have a proven track record for this application. They also have that ability to plug in simple slaves that I mentioned before.
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Emphatically YES. Sending you a pm with some examples of something I was working on this morning....
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Since your camera can act as a "master" for the SB600, you can do this without any other purchase other than the stand, umbrella bracket and umbrella (although I thought you kept the umbrellas.)
A reflector or 2 can even help distribute light within the scene. Take a look here:
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=92550
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So funny because my very initial intent was to get a lightstand, umbrella and bracket...then I started browsing around and thinking "what if" and that's when I get in trouble
I do think that i'm going to take my gift card and buy another sb600 though, just because there's nothing else i will want to use it for at that store. the place is a little pricey for accessories that I can get cheaper somewhere online and out of pocket. Plus, the extra flash would be good to have as a backup.
Thanks for the help!!
With strobes like the promaster who ahve been around for quite some time...but no one seems to use them.....most serious ametueurs and pros use brands that have been proven..........I get a real bad taste in my mouth when I see Promaster flash units........I had a flash that exploded on me just before a wedding in NW Arkansas and I was looking for another Viv285......I was gauranteed that this promaster that had a dedicated module on it was so much better than my elo cheapo Viv would be....(really young sales man)......any the neares one in their company was in Ft Smith and it could not be where i was (Bentonville / Bella Vista) until monday.....I bought the Promaster.......it was a peice of crap.......the ttl side did not work well at all.....It did not put out consistant flash power.....I meter all my wedding shots and I had a notebook full of notes on flash power setting and such....it was awful.
So now I stay with brands I know I can trust...Vivatar, SunPak, and other name brands.........
Good lcuk opn your shoot(s)
above in bold
You can read about the technique used on this page on the Strobist Lighting 101 series.
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That's nice, Scott. Well done!
N
http://www.behance.net/brosepix