Dalston Horse Jumping

canon400d · August 9, 2009

Yesterday I attended Dalston Agricultural show to see if I could put into practice what you told me from my first attempt at photographing horse jumping. I was using my 40D and I found a fence as you refer to as Oxers two poles wide which was right against the boundary line. This forced me into using my 17-55 2.8 but I had a huge van right behind me with a generator running so I was unable to use the rule of thumb by listening to the horses approaching.
I took a load of shots and some of the kids were jumping in the under 12 class and they appeared to be having a fantastic time.
I was shooting Manual as I usually do but is it better to shoot Total Value to keep the shutter speed high?
Anyhow, I will appreciate all your C & C as it is the only way I am going to learn. I must admit I really enjoy photographing horse jumping and this is my second attempt.
regards
Bob
1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

pyry · August 9, 2009

1 and 3 are good, 10 and 12 are spot on.

I would like to see more space in the compositions in the direction the horse is running in many of these and a more contrasty pp.

Snowgirl · August 9, 2009

Hi. Nice set. Here are my thoughts:
#1 - priceless. Great pony and the kid's expression is priceless.
#2 - too late horse starting to descend
#3, 11, 12 and 13 are good
#5 - a vertical (as opposed to an oxer) too late
#6 over vertical - better to catch the horse coming up.
#7 nice and sharp but a bit late, as is #8. #9 is also late, as are 14 & 15 and 15 seems a bit out of focus
#10 Cool shot.

canon400d · August 9, 2009

Snowgirl wrote:

Hi. Nice set. Here are my thoughts:
#1 - priceless. Great pony and the kid's expression is priceless.
#2 - too late horse starting to descend
#3, 11, 12 and 13 are good
#5 - a vertical (as opposed to an oxer) too late
#6 over vertical - better to catch the horse coming up.
#7 nice and sharp but a bit late, as is #8. #9 is also late, as are 14 & 15 and 15 seems a bit out of focus
#10 Cool shot.

Great Snowgirl I really appreciate that. Is it better to shoot manual or TV because I was a wee bit disappointed with the last shots of the day with the larger horses which I missed out on. The fences were in focus but the horses were not pin sharp like you referred to no 15. When I checked the exif I found the shutter speed was too low. But once again thanks for your reply.
Regards
Bob

canon400d · August 9, 2009

pyry wrote:

1 and 3 are good, 10 and 12 are spot on.

I would like to see more space in the compositions in the direction the horse is running in many of these and a more contrasty pp.

Thanks Pyry once again I appreciate your advice. As you will see from the vertical jumps the riders are all looking to the left because the horse was going to the left. I would have liked to have seen some facial expression on these shots. Is this what you are meaning by more space in the compositions. Also do you think the shots need more contrast?
Regards
Bob

pyry · August 9, 2009

canon400d wrote:

Thanks Pyry once again I appreciate your advice. As you will see from the vertical jumps the riders are all looking to the left because the horse was going to the left. I would have liked to have seen some facial expression on these shots. Is this what you are meaning by more space in the compositions. Also do you think the shots need more contrast?
Regards
Bob

No, meant that you should place more space in the comp in front the horse rather than behind it. You seem to have set your shot up using the fence and then just wait for the horse to come by, right? Try panning with the horse as it comes through.

It's one the rules of thumb for shooting a moving target - put more space in front and less behind.

examples: 7 is ok, 8 is running away, 10 is good, 12 and 13 are running out of frame.

canon400d · August 9, 2009

pyry wrote:

No, meant that you should place more space in the comp in front the horse rather than behind it. You seem to have set your shot up using the fence and then just wait for the horse to come by, right? Try panning with the horse as it comes through.[/quote

Yes you are exactly right. I did use the fence and then waited for the horse to arrive and obviously I was getting similiar shots but with different riders. Mmmm when you say panning I have started to learn this at motor rallies. But does this not cancel out the rule of thumb by listening for the horse approaching. As I said I was unable to use this method because of a damned generator immediately behind me.
Regards
Bob

pyry · August 9, 2009

canon400d wrote:

Yes you are exactly right. I did use the fence and then waited for the horse to arrive and obviously I was getting similiar shots but with different riders. Mmmm when you say panning I have started to learn this at motor rallies. But does this not cancel out the rule of thumb by listening for the horse approaching. As I said I was unable to use this method because of a damned generator immediately behind me.
Regards
Bob

Not unless you have a neck as loud as Robo-Cop's

It just helps keep your comps nice regardless of any timing, you can still use the sound to time your shot.

If you shoot bursts you can start timing by looking for where the horses jump and start shooting, say a stride before and keep blasting away through the whole jump - this what I do. You will end up with hundreds of shots and a low keeper rate, but the good ones are more likely to be there and you get more choice to select the shots are great even if they break all the rules of thumb

canon400d · August 9, 2009

pyry wrote:

Not unless you have a neck as loud as Robo-Cop's
It just helps keep your comps nice regardless of any timing, you can still use the sound to time your shot.

If you shoot bursts you can start timing by looking for where the horses jump and start shooting, say a stride before and keep blasting away through the whole jump - this what I do. You will end up with hundreds of shots and a low keeper rate, but the good ones are more likely to be there and you get more choice to select the shots are great even if they break all the rules of thumb

Yes superb Pyry. I know what you mean and great advice which I will sure use on my next shoot. Should I use Manual or TV? Thanks again.
Regards
Bob

divamum · August 9, 2009

canon400d wrote:

1

Great "kid picture" which definitely captures the moment, although the purist in me is bothered by her actual riding position (toes pointed down and "loose" seat in the air as well as rather heavy hands), and way the pony is hanging his forelegs in the air . Some of that could possibly be minimized by shooting slightly earlier, on takeoff when the rider is more likely to be a little more still. That said, Pyry and SG both love this shot, so I think I'm the odd-man out on this one (like I say, it's the purist equitation person in me

).

2

This one's late.

3

Nicely-timed shot of a tidy horse and rider. Like this one a lot.

4

Late, although less of a deal-breaker in this one because of the way the horse was WAY over the top of the fence (look at how much room he gave himself with his hind legs!!). But notice how the rider is already drifting back into the saddle; not the most flattering part of the arc for either horse or rider.

5

This one's late for an in-the-air shot and a little early for a "classic" landing shot. That said, I like the implied sense of moving on by the look to the next fence even though they were on a left-hand turn.

10

I really like this one - my favorite of the set. The wide angle shot from below makes the fence look much bigger, the sky is a nice neutral bg, horse and rider look very organized and in rhythm...

For the situation you had, this angle works very well for me.

11

Nice tight in-the-air shot

Nice timing and nice horse/rider combo on all three of these. Note that the first of these is taken earlier, on takeoff, but not TOO early - the horse is already folding his legs and is in the first part of the "bascule" position that Hoofie mentioned last time.

I tend to shoot most things aperture priority - partly to control dof, and partly because I never feel like I can think fast enough in manual. That said, but I keep a constant eye on my shutter speed to ensure it's not drifting below 200+ (or 500+ if I'm using the tele, which is more often than not for these ). I'm not great at panning (yet - working on it)... one of the many reasons I like the head-on shot like I posted from last week!!!

HoofClix · August 9, 2009

Well, I'm glad the weather held out for you!

You got lots of the correct timing advice above, so I won't reiterate. In general, even though you have some late shots there, you have a generally better showing here than in your other thread, mostly because I think you got better angles and used a better lens. I assume that you used a 70-300 lens that other time, which unless you are shooting fixed at f5.6, you'll get a lot of variability in your shots that won't have been intentional.

Yes, if you're wanting to do a lot of this, panning is the way to go, turning with the hips to follow the horse, and then learn to take "the shot" without using the fps of the camera. fps seems like the way to go, but the fact is it creates soft shots that are both late and early.

Did they let you in the ring there??

canon400d · August 10, 2009

divamum wrote:

Great "kid picture" which definitely captures the moment, although the purist in me is bothered by her actual riding position (toes pointed down and "loose" seat in the air as well as rather heavy hands), and way the pony is hanging his forelegs in the air . Some of that could possibly be minimized by shooting slightly earlier, on takeoff when the rider is more likely to be a little more still. That said, Pyry and SG both love this shot, so I think I'm the odd-man out on this one (like I say, it's the purist equitation person in me ).

This one's late.

Nicely-timed shot of a tidy horse and rider. Like this one a lot.

Late, although less of a deal-breaker in this one because of the way the horse was WAY over the top of the fence (look at how much room he gave himself with his hind legs!!). But notice how the rider is already drifting back into the saddle; not the most flattering part of the arc for either horse or rider.

This one's late for an in-the-air shot and a little early for a "classic" landing shot. That said, I like the implied sense of moving on by the look to the next fence even though they were on a left-hand turn.

I really like this one - my favorite of the set. The wide angle shot from below makes the fence look much bigger, the sky is a nice neutral bg, horse and rider look very organized and in rhythm... For the situation you had, this angle works very well for me.

Nice tight in-the-air shot

Nice timing and nice horse/rider combo on all three of these. Note that the first of these is taken earlier, on takeoff, but not TOO early - the horse is already folding his legs and is in the first part of the "bascule" position that Hoofie mentioned last time.

I tend to shoot most things aperture priority - partly to control dof, and partly because I never feel like I can think fast enough in manual. That said, but I keep a constant eye on my shutter speed to ensure it's not drifting below 200+ (or 500+ if I'm using the tele, which is more often than not for these ). I'm not great at panning (yet - working on it)... one of the many reasons I like the head-on shot like I posted from last week!!!

Hi there Divamum,
I really appreciate once again you looking and explaining each image to keep me on the right track. However, I am a wee bit confused when you say No. 3 was too late and yet you liked no.4 when the horse was further over the fence than no.3.
I too am struggling with panning as I have just started to learn this at motor rallies.
I appreciate you using AP and will consider this. However, I have been using Manual but thought maybe TV would be better. I was wondering what everyone else used as I was advised to use TV at the motor rallies.
I really do enjoy shooting the horse jumpers but unfortunately the shows are coming to an end over here and because of the bad weather so many shows were cancelled.
Once again thanks for all your advice I will probably sort some more images and post them soon if you would like to comment on them.
Regards
Bob

canon400d · August 10, 2009

HoofClix wrote:

Well, I'm glad the weather held out for you!

You got lots of the correct timing advice above, so I won't reiterate. In general, even though you have some late shots there, you have a generally better showing here than in your other thread, mostly because I think you got better angles and used a better lens. I assume that you used a 70-300 lens that other time, which unless you are shooting fixed at f5.6, you'll get a lot of variability in your shots that won't have been intentional.

Yes, if you're wanting to do a lot of this, panning is the way to go, turning with the hips to follow the horse, and then learn to take "the shot" without using the fps of the camera. fps seems like the way to go, but the fact is it creates soft shots that are both late and early.

Did they let you in the ring there??

Hi there Mark,
Thanks for looking and replying which I truly appreciate. Yes the weather was in my favour which was a bonus as we have had so many shows cancelled. The timing advice I really appreciate. The lens I used in my other thread was a canon 70-200 but it was the F4 not the 2.8 so I had to make sure the shutter speed was quite high shooting hand held.
I was not in the ring and I didn't like to ask. I have just recently tried to get into the hang of panning at a couple of motor rallies I have been to. I never gave it a thought for horse jumping but I certainly will the next time. Where I was positioned on this occasion was about 20feet from the green fence so I was forced to use my 17-55 2.8. The reason I am asking which mode you shoot on is because in the latter stages I missed out on the big horses at the same fence as I must have had a lapse of concentration and I was a wee bit low on the shutter speeds. The fence was in focus but the horse and rider were not pin sharp.
Thanks once again.
Regards
Bob

HoofClix · August 10, 2009

canon400d wrote:

Hi there Mark,
The reason I am asking which mode you shoot on...

I'm using a Nikon D200 at the shows, and I have the 70-200 f2.8 VR for the jumping ring like you are shooting. Basically, outdoors always on Aperture priority, in daylight at about f3.5. (f3.5 to give me good subject dof but good isolation from the background.) I adjust the ISO to make sure that the speeds are fast fast fast... I prefer to see speeds faster than 1/800. I want the horse/rider as frozen as I can get them. If it's early or really overcast.. and I can't get that fast, I'll open up to f2.8 so that I don't have to go above ISO 800..

Panning is a must to learn in most any or these sports. Your subjects will be much more crisp, even when your speeds get slow...

Hey, if you want to practice your timing, you might see if you can go to the training farms where these folks practice, and you can practice there yourself. I do it all the time, especially when I get new equipment... Of course, when you live in a country when it's likely to rain any given moment of any given day...

divamum · August 10, 2009

canon400d wrote:

Hi there Divamum,
I really appreciate once again you looking and explaining each image to keep me on the right track. However, I am a wee bit confused when you say No. 3 was too late and yet you liked no.4 when the horse was further over the fence than no.3.
Regards
Bob

I'm not sure I understand the question... I think you may have mistakenly mis-assigned my comments to the wrong photo...

To clarify (comments for each photo above it)

2 This one is too late (although a fraction later might -possibly - have made an ok landing shot, but without the sense of turning in the air, it might just have looked late)

2

3 This one is just right - nice shot

3

4 This one IS late, but it works better simply because of the way the horse composed himself over the fence - he hasn't gone that far with unfolding his forelegs, so even though he has started h is descent, he's still mostly in the position we expect to see in the air. He's also really kicking up his hind heels which combines to make it seem more like an in-the-air shot.

4

Question for you: are you a rider yourself, or familiar with the technical aspects of jumping? From the questions you've asked, I'm going to assume that you're somewhat new to this, but HUGE apologies that is not the case (and if I am wrong, just ignore the next paragraphs because it will be wholly redundant

) However...

It really helps to know a bit about how a rider gauges their distance to a fence. The "perfect" jump has a takeoff from approximately the same distance as the fence is high; similarly, the landing "should" touch down approximately as far away from the fence on the landing side as the fence is high (in theory, forming a perfect half-circle over the jump) . It rarely happens exactly that way, but it's optimum. If they get too close to the fence, or throw in an extra stride at the last minute, they often wind up jumping pretty much from a standstill, often with legs all over the place, uneven forelegs (sometimes hanging one down badly - can cause some serious falls over higher fences), and sometimes unseating their rider with a "cat-jump" out of nowhere.

Conversely, if they leave a stride out and jump from too far back, they flatten out over the fence - often pulling a rail down with a hind leg, particularly if it's a fence with some width), and the rider will often look like they threw themselves over the fence in an attempt to guarantee the jump.

Once you get a feel for how a rider "sees their distance" (iow, judges from where to jump) it makes it easier to gauge where the horse will take off when they're still a few strides away. This not only helps with timing the shutter, but can also indicate when it's not worth taking the shot because you can tell that they're going to have an ungainly jump (although Hoofie, as resident professional equitog, what's your policy on that - do you photograph trainwrecks you can see coming, or just hope for a better fence somewhere else in the round to catch another shot?)

I'm not sure if I have any examples from that shoot I did last weekend; I think I culled the tossers already because I'm low on hdd space, but I'll have a look and see if I can find some examples in the morning.

HTH!

canon400d · August 11, 2009

HoofClix wrote:

I'm using a Nikon D200 at the shows, and I have the 70-200 f2.8 VR for the jumping ring like you are shooting. Basically, outdoors always on Aperture priority, in daylight at about f3.5. (f3.5 to give me good subject dof but good isolation from the background.) I adjust the ISO to make sure that the speeds are fast fast fast... I prefer to see speeds faster than 1/800. I want the horse/rider as frozen as I can get them. If it's early or really overcast.. and I can't get that fast, I'll open up to f2.8 so that I don't have to go above ISO 800..

Panning is a must to learn in most any or these sports. Your subjects will be much more crisp, even when your speeds get slow...

Hey, if you want to practice your timing, you might see if you can go to the training farms where these folks practice, and you can practice there yourself. I do it all the time, especially when I get new equipment... Of course, when you live in a country when it's likely to rain any given moment of any given day...

Hi Mark,
Yeah I am with Canon but I made a big mistake when I purchased the F.4 70 -200 being a learner which I still am I should have gone for the 2.8. Anyhow, I will certainly use AP the next time and I will keep in mind what you have said.(should I use AP rather than TV in the motor rallies I have started to attend?)
I have just started to use the panning system and I am not quite sure how it is done. 1. Do I do this in continuous mode? I would really appreciate Mark if you could give me instructions on this panning. I have already said I love the horse jumping but there are no more shows left for me to attend. I will try and find out where they practice but to be honest they are all really amateurs coming from farms in our area if you know what I mean.
I really appreciate your reply and thanks once again for taking the time to look and reply.
Regards
Bob

canon400d · August 11, 2009

divamum wrote:

I'm not sure I understand the question... I think you may have mistakenly mis-assigned my comments to the wrong photo...

To clarify (comments for each photo above it)

2 This one is too late (although a fraction later might -possibly - have made an ok landing shot, but without the sense of turning in the air, it might just have looked late)

3 This one is just right - nice shot

4 This one IS late, but it works better simply because of the way the horse composed himself over the fence - he hasn't gone that far with unfolding his forelegs, so even though he has started h is descent, he's still mostly in the position we expect to see in the air. He's also really kicking up his hind heels which combines to make it seem more like an in-the-air shot.

Question for you: are you a rider yourself, or familiar with the technical aspects of jumping? From the questions you've asked, I'm going to assume that you're somewhat new to this, but HUGE apologies that is not the case (and if I am wrong, just ignore the next paragraphs because it will be wholly redundant ) However...

It really helps to know a bit about how a rider gauges their distance to a fence. The "perfect" jump has a takeoff from approximately the same distance as the fence is high; similarly, the landing "should" touch down approximately as far away from the fence on the landing side as the fence is high (in theory, forming a perfect half-circle over the jump) . It rarely happens exactly that way, but it's optimum. If they get too close to the fence, or throw in an extra stride at the last minute, they often wind up jumping pretty much from a standstill, often with legs all over the place, uneven forelegs (sometimes hanging one down badly - can cause some serious falls over higher fences), and sometimes unseating their rider with a "cat-jump" out of nowhere.

Conversely, if they leave a stride out and jump from too far back, they flatten out over the fence - often pulling a rail down with a hind leg, particularly if it's a fence with some width), and the rider will often look like they threw themselves over the fence in an attempt to guarantee the jump.

Once you get a feel for how a rider "sees their distance" (iow, judges from where to jump) it makes it easier to gauge where the horse will take off when they're still a few strides away. This not only helps with timing the shutter, but can also indicate when it's not worth taking the shot because you can tell that they're going to have an ungainly jump (although Hoofie, as resident professional equitog, what's your policy on that - do you photograph trainwrecks you can see coming, or just hope for a better fence somewhere else in the round to catch another shot?)

I'm not sure if I have any examples from that shoot I did last weekend; I think I culled the tossers already because I'm low on hdd space, but I'll have a look and see if I can find some examples in the morning.

HTH!

Hi there Divamum,
I really do appreciate everything you say.
I was brought up on a farm and and was involved with ponies and horses. However I joined the police and my daughter was really involved and I was right behind her when she was in her teens. I was not into photography then. My daughter died suddenly at 26yrs with high blood pressure 1999, I only wish I had been into photography the way I am now.
Regards
Bob

divamum · August 11, 2009

canon400d wrote:

Hi there Divamum,
I really do appreciate everything you say.
I was brought up on a farm and and was involved with ponies and horses. However I joined the police and my daughter was really involved and I was right behind her when she was in her teens. I was not into photography then. My daughter died suddenly at 26yrs with high blood pressure 1999, I only wish I had been into photography the way I am now.
Regards
Bob

So sorry to hear about your daughter.

As I said, IGNORE any redundant comments I may have written! Part of my take is simply a result of the difference between UK and US riding styles (my riding started when we lived in Britain, but I continued when we moved over here, so I've been part of both worlds firsthand, although did more over here since that was during my teen years....)

In any case, look forward to more of your shots! It's been great to "blether horse" with you.

canon400d · August 11, 2009

divamum wrote:

So sorry to hear about your daughter.

As I said, IGNORE any redundant comments I may have written! Part of my take is simply a result of the difference between UK and US riding styles (my riding started when we lived in Britain, but I continued when we moved over here, so I've been part of both worlds firsthand, although did more over here since that was during my teen years....)

In any case, look forward to more of your shots! It's been great to "blether horse" with you.

Hi Divamum,
I must admit it has been great to 'blether' with you and I am learning from you all the time. I think I have got the message but I will post some more shots tomorrow and I will nominate the good ones and the bad ones. I know I will be wrong but am longing to give it a go. Thanks again about my daughter.
Regards
Bob

HoofClix · August 12, 2009

canon400d wrote:

... but I made a big mistake when I purchased the F.4 70 -200 being a learner which I still am I should have gone for the 2.8.

Well, we all have our collection of mistakes.....

canon400d wrote:

...(should I use AP rather than TV in the motor rallies I have started to attend?)

I am known as a rather dumb ox in some circles, and I must confess I don't know what "TV" mode is. Must be a secret Canonite code word.:D

canon400d wrote:

..I have just started to use the panning system and I am not quite sure how it is done. 1. Do I do this in continuous mode? I would really appreciate Mark if you could give me instructions on this panning.

OK, again I don't have the secret Canon decoder ring, but put your camera in continuous focus mode. Hold the lens barrel palm up with your left hand, and get your elbows firmly into your body so that your upper body and camera are a firm, but flexible unit. Follow the target by turning smoothly at the waist and hips. I hope this makes sense.. (Hey, sometimes I even show off by turning my camera upside down, swithcing hands, and using my left hand on the alternate shutter release and my right hand under the barrel!!!

)

canon400d wrote:

..I will try and find out where they practice but to be honest they are all really amateurs coming from farms in our area if you know what I mean.

If they have but one jump that they are practicing on, that's all you need to practice all of this, amateur or pro. I'll see if I can recommend you some folks who are really nice, though you might have to hit the motorway and head for Leeds, or just north of there.. You might also make a trip to either Badminton or Burghley in the springtime.. Basically the two top events in the world..

canon400d wrote:

..I really appreciate your reply and thanks once again for taking the time to look and reply.
Regards
Bob

My absolute pleasure sir..

CookieS · August 12, 2009

I like 3 the best, did you use lucis or another HDR program to bring out the shadows ?

canon400d · August 12, 2009

divamum wrote:

So sorry to hear about your daughter.

As I said, IGNORE any redundant comments I may have written! Part of my take is simply a result of the difference between UK and US riding styles (my riding started when we lived in Britain, but I continued when we moved over here, so I've been part of both worlds firsthand, although did more over here since that was during my teen years....)

In any case, look forward to more of your shots! It's been great to "blether horse" with you.

Here are some more I took for you to comment on. The ones I have said are 'not bad' is because their legs are well tucked in. I am probably miles wrong.
Regards
Bob
1 not bad
618156513_h6EX7-L.jp

2 not bad

3 bad

4 not bad

5 bad horse jumping out of frame

6 too late

7 too late

8 too late

9 not sure maybe bad

10 not bad

11 not sure maybe not bad

12 too late

13 not bad

14 not bad

15 too late

canon400d · August 12, 2009

HoofClix wrote:

Well, we all have our collection of mistakes.....

I am known as a rather dumb ox in some circles, and I must confess I don't know what "TV" mode is. Must be a secret Canonite code word.:D

OK, again I don't have the secret Canon decoder ring, but put your camera in continuous focus mode. Hold the lens barrel palm up with your left hand, and get your elbows firmly into your body so that your upper body and camera are a firm, but flexible unit. Follow the target by turning smoothly at the waist and hips. I hope this makes sense.. (Hey, sometimes I even show off by turning my camera upside down, swithcing hands, and using my left hand on the alternate shutter release and my right hand under the barrel!!! )

If they have but one jump that they are practicing on, that's all you need to practice all of this, amateur or pro. I'll see if I can recommend you some folks who are really nice, though you might have to hit the motorway and head for Leeds, or just north of there.. You might also make a trip to either Badminton or Burghley in the springtime.. Basically the two top events in the world..

My absolute pleasure sir..

Hi Mark,
The TV mode is Total Value and works the opposite way to AP in TV you select the shutter speed and it automatically selects the F stop.
Thanks for the panning instructions I will certainly put that into practice the next time I am out.
I would certainly appreciate any recommendations you can find. I don't mind travelling a few miles although Leeds is just over a hundred miles from where I am in south west Scotland. I will certainly look out the dates for the Badminton and Burghly horse trials.
Thanks once again for your kind help.
Regards
Bob

canon400d · August 12, 2009

CookieS wrote:

I like 3 the best, did you use lucis or another HDR program to bring out the shadows ?

Hi
I have never heard of lucis I do have Photomatix pro 3 but this was not an HDR shot. I use CS4 and in actual fact I did very little too it.
Regards
Bob

HoofClix · August 12, 2009

OK, so "TV" is what we call "Shutter Priority." On the Nikon it is, shhhh, signified by the letter "S."

Also, one of the big signs of framing rather than panning is that you get late shots. You just can't react quickly enough with you finger when you first see the horse enter the frame...

That first of your new shots is one of the best you've posted...

divamum · August 12, 2009

General comment - in terms of timing I'm not looking at how far ACROSS the jump the horse is, but where he is in the 180 degree cycle which forms the arc over the fence; in a perfect world, we want to see them at the apex (or slightly before). Depending on where they took off, that apex may not be centered over the jump.

#1 Excellent - agree with The Hoofster that it's one of the best you've shared

#2 Your timing is fine (too early if anything), but it wasn't a great jump - this is a classic example of what happens when they throw in an extra stride and/or nearly stop and then "cat-jump" - note the hanging forelegs (instead of tightly tucked like he's trying to stick his nose between his knees), and how close to the fence his hind legs are, even though they're still on the ground. Her position in the air is good, however.

#3 early

#4 Nice

5 Horse jumping out of frame, and the focus looks not as sharp in this one.

6 In this one he's a long way across the fence and it's not a great jump (neither of them are happy - she sat down over the fence which is probably why his ears are back and he looks so grumpy!), but note how his legs are still tightly tucked so it doesn't really come over as a "late" shot - I'm more aware of it being another rider who got way too close and then "yee-haw-ed" over it.

7 OOF and a tad late, but not hideously so - his forelegs are only jusssttt starting to unfold.

8 too late

9 this is just a bad jump from horse and rider - timing kind of secondary issue on that one...

10 might have been better a split second sooner or later, but it's not bad as is - that horse REALLY rounds over the fence and the rider's position is very secure and "textbook", so it still looks good.

11 early

12 Is a fraction late, but I think you'll find that horse just doesn't tuck very tightly - looks like he doesn't really fold up his front legs that much, so even earlier it might have looked a little "hang-y", as in the previous shot.

13 a tad late and/or horse doesn't tuck very much (sometimes it's hard to judge unless you see them in action)

14 Excellent rider position, and the timing is fine

15 Same shot as 14

HTH!!

(PS I went through this typing pretty fast - if I mistakenly appended a comment to the wrong shot as I scrolled down, apologies in advance!!!)

canon400d · August 13, 2009

HoofClix wrote:

OK, so "TV" is what we call "Shutter Priority." On the Nikon it is, shhhh, signified by the letter "S."

Also, one of the big signs of framing rather than panning is that you get late shots. You just can't react quickly enough with you finger when you first see the horse enter the frame...

That first of your new shots is one of the best you've posted...

Thanks Mark I will remember what you have said and you really have made my day with your opinion of the first shot. I will certainly try and take future shots like this one.
Regards
Bob

canon400d · August 13, 2009

divamum wrote:

General comment - in terms of timing I'm not looking at how far ACROSS the jump the horse is, but where he is in the 180 degree cycle which forms the arc over the fence; in a perfect world, we want to see them at the apex (or slightly before). Depending on where they took off, that apex may not be centered over the jump.

#1 Excellent - agree with The Hoofster that it's one of the best you've shared

#2 Your timing is fine (too early if anything), but it wasn't a great jump - this is a classic example of what happens when they throw in an extra stride and/or nearly stop and then "cat-jump" - note the hanging forelegs (instead of tightly tucked like he's trying to stick his nose between his knees), and how close to the fence his hind legs are, even though they're still on the ground. Her position in the air is good, however.

#3 early

#4 Nice

5 Horse jumping out of frame, and the focus looks not as sharp in this one.

6 In this one he's a long way across the fence and it's not a great jump (neither of them are happy - she sat down over the fence which is probably why his ears are back and he looks so grumpy!), but note how his legs are still tightly tucked so it doesn't really come over as a "late" shot - I'm more aware of it being another rider who got way too close and then "yee-haw-ed" over it.

7 OOF and a tad late, but not hideously so - his forelegs are only jusssttt starting to unfold.

8 too late

9 this is just a bad jump from horse and rider - timing kind of secondary issue on that one...

10 might have been better a split second sooner or later, but it's not bad as is - that horse REALLY rounds over the fence and the rider's position is very secure and "textbook", so it still looks good.

11 early

12 Is a fraction late, but I think you'll find that horse just doesn't tuck very tightly - looks like he doesn't really fold up his front legs that much, so even earlier it might have looked a little "hang-y", as in the previous shot.

13 a tad late and/or horse doesn't tuck very much (sometimes it's hard to judge unless you see them in action)

14 Excellent rider position, and the timing is fine

15 Same shot as 14

HTH!!

(PS I went through this typing pretty fast - if I mistakenly appended a comment to the wrong shot as I scrolled down, apologies in advance!!!)

Thanks ever so much Divamum for taking your time for explaining each image. I think I see the road I have to travel and you too have made my day with your views on this first shot. I will certainly try and take similar shots.
Regards
Bob

Snowgirl · August 15, 2009

canon400d wrote:

Hi Mark,
The TV mode is Total Value and works the opposite way to AP in TV you select the shutter speed and it automatically selects the F stop.
Regards
Bob

Actually, in the canon world, Tv stands for "Time Value" but your explanation is bang on!

canon400d · August 18, 2009

Snowgirl wrote:

Actually, in the canon world, Tv stands for "Time Value" but your explanation is bang on!

Yes you are quite right Snowgirl. In my 400D instruction book TV is referred to as Time Value in my 40D instruction book it is referred to as Total Value. Apart from that what did ya think about the photos?
Regards
Bob

dlplumer · August 18, 2009

Bob, I love watching you grow as a photographer. Really good stuff man

Dalston Horse Jumping

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