How do you deal? Beware.... long whining post...

WingsOfLovePhoto · September 7, 2009

Ugh... sorry to vent here but nobody else understands! Shot a wedding yesterday (my own and not as a guest this time). I had planned for months...ideas for shots etc..... bought extra equipment, got a second shooter , you get the drift.... Had met the with bride and groom several times to discuss. They assured me they were "picture people" and wanted portrait like pictures and not just PJ (not my style). Well..... I was asked to go in the am to do a a picture of her getting her hair done... which I did..went to the house and the hair was already in rollers and everybody was sitting around eating left overs. Not a great place to get any kind of pictures...took her outside and snapped a few.... She then told me that the girls would be getting dressed at her house but she would be getting dressed at the catering place (wedding/reception) in the same place. So we planned to meet there.

I had taken the gown/shoes/rings and the flowers were delivered there so I went early to do shots of those and the room etc... all good except for the room they were going to get dressed in....small rectangular, wall of mirror, pink striped wallpaper and a window with pink vertical blinds..

Anyhow I sent my 2nd shooter to where the guys were getting dressed. He then calls me and says they really didn't want many pictures.....

The girls finally show up...late... nobody dressed. All piled into this small room that has no air. The bride, 3 flower girls and 4 bridesmaids. Next thing you know it there is junk and people everywhere. Not making for pretty shots. Then the bride didn't want to get dressed until right before she was going to walk out...and they wouldn't let me keep the blind open for some light because somebody might see her...ugh on the dark pink room....

Next up....ceremony in enclosed porch with horrible back and side lighting. Let my 2nd shooter set up lights in various places triggered by pocked wizards. Big mistake #1. I should have used my flash on a bracket but He seemed confident in his lighting skills. Had him using a D300... I had the D3 and D700 on me.. ALL the pictures from the D300 were really noisy at 400iso. No clue why. The way the room was set up I wasn't able to get anywhere to get the bride and groom from the front, just snuck in from one side area for 1 shot. ugh again.... Finally the ceremony was over and all the bridal party and family went outside for pictures

I get there and they are all standing around smoking not looking interested at all in pictures. It was on a golf course so I am looking around trying to find some decent light but not much to be found and golfers kept showing up in the background. The bride didn't want to wander much from that spot because of the dress. Did pictures of the family there then sent them back in.

Finally convinced the bridal party to let me do pictures in a different location. Walked there...got a few pictures of the bridal party then sent them in. Started doing the bride and groom together. Not 5 (not what I wanted) poses in... somebody comes out and to tell us it was time to go in for the dinner. Ok...pictures done, lets not hold the food up.... ugh....

Inside the lighting was horrible, trying to bounce off a ceiling. My 2nd shooters pictures were all noisy and underexposed and many alternative...ie: rear curtain flash, dragged shutter etc... Most of mine were salvagable thanks to the D3 but not at all the quality I expect from myself.

So what I am getting at...how do you deal with the disappointment? I have felt sick all day that I didn't do a good job, that I didn't get what I should have due to all these obstacles. I am stressed and frustrated and wanting to never do another wedding again! I need to get a different 2nd shooter who has my kind of philosopy but don't know how to tell him.

I have salvaged some of the pictures by doing alternate processing. I am sure that these pictures are the best of themselves they have seen and I am not really worried much about what they will think other than maybe some missed opportunities for various reasons and I had offered to have them get dressed up again for a b/g session. Or at the very least a bridal session ( I don't have any formal pics of the bride alone) So this...it's my own feeling of failure that is going to kill me. :cry Sorry for being so long winded...just needed some friends who might understand....

ssimmonsphoto · September 7, 2009

I was in a similar-ish situation after my second wedding. It was the first Friday in April and I had to haul butt out of my "Day job" to get to the bride's house to get ready. The room for the dress and putting it on was their (messy) computer room about the size of a large closet and with just as much light. It was hard. I was having flash issues all day with the POS connecting properly (couldn't afford a better flash at the time, but have since bought better gear). The ceremony and reception were both held inside a big room with florescent lighting and it was absolutely pouring outside and dark. So there went the idea of any fun portraits at all. There was no sneaking away at all. Just the one room and the kitchen. It was so rough.

When I got home the next day, after meeting with another potential client on the way, I downloading my images and they were all noisy since my ISO was higher than I wanted it due to the screwy flash. Just one thing after another made me want to cry. I felt like I had screwed up big time, but I knew that I had to make the best of what I had and get them to the bride and groom. In the end, they were thrilled with what I gave them, or at leas that's what I was told and what my review from them says. Was I pleased with it? Heck no. But I chalked it up to a learning experience and a lesson in gear. So I got doubled of everything, got faster glass, etc. before my next gig. And I went in to it with as much optimism as I could muster.

It was much better. So much so that I actually enjoyed looking through the photos while editing. And now I have a portrait session with them booked for this month. So, basically, all I'm saying is that, I think you'll find that we've all had to face disappointment. But, if you can get yourself upright again and learn from it, then you'll be in better shape than you were before. It's those that don't get up again that figure out this business isn't for them.

As for your assistant, have you "contracted" with him for your next gig? If not, just use someone else. If he questions, just state that you wanted to give other new photogs the opportunity as well and that you'll be in touch if you need his services again.

Hope this helps!

SKnight · September 7, 2009

"I love mankind, it's people I can't stand."-Linus Van Pelt

The most chaotic thing I've ever seen is a wedding. Never on time, nobody cares that they're running late or not allowing things that need to happen, happen. I caught Hell once because a wedding I was talked into videotaping failed. The camera, one that was thrust into my hand, not only ate the tape with no spare tapes around but the photographer got a pic of me in the background all because he went somewhere he wasn't supposed to. "And that was the best photo, ruined!" You can't please someone especially the family. The B&G usually just want it done and over.

During preliminary planning I'd tell them that if they want their photos then I'll have to have total control for five minutes at a time. Also I'd want access to all areas to check it out first, figure out that you need special lighting with enough time to fix it.

Other than trying to get some control beforehand I really don't know what to tell you that experience (Or my lack of.) won't.

But especially considering the conditions, it sounds like you did pretty well.

coldclimb · September 7, 2009

Post a link to the album so we can pat you on the back for the ones you DID get!

I've found that whenever I think I did a pretty bad job, there's always people that like the shots I got.

Scott_Quier · September 8, 2009

Considering what you had to work with (client-wise), I think you did a very good job (though I would love to see some of the shots just to make sure

). Aside from that, sorry, but I really don't feel much sympathy for your rant - you ran into human nature and it bit you but good. Use this as a learning experience. To that end, here's a couple or three thoughts to ponder:

Repeat after me, "It is what it is" - keep that in mind. Always! The wedding day is NOT about the photographer, but about the bride and the decisions she makes. Because many of these decisions are being made on the fly, they will often not be made with the long-view in mind (they will be short sighted and focused on immediate gratification). You do NOT want to attempt to control the situation. You can mention the implications and repercussions of these decisions and hope she reverses herself ... but don't count on it. You gotta roll with the punches.

I've given up on believing the "I'm into the photography" statements. I've heard it too many times and it's actually panned out only once and then it was only minimally. I thought we were on the same page. We talked and she was excited. But, when the day came there was not time for most of it - she had to "maintain the schedule" of events. I felt so used and abused at the end of that day. It's not happening again. The only time I will ever again believe the "I'm into the pictures" statement is if I'm talking to a photographer and I've seen a portfolio that supports the statement. And, even then, I'll wonder about the situation - depending on the focus of the event coordinator.

As for the noise on the D300 - check the exif. Is there any chance that the exposure is being pushed in post production? If so, that would go a long, long way toward explaining the noise.

Lighting and trusting your second. Unless you've worked with your second a couple of times and KNOW that they know what they are doing, you can "trust" but you must "verify". You have to remember that you are responsible. By way of example, I shot as the second for a lady who I trained so, maybe, I know better than she does?. She arrived late to the venue (traffic was really bad). While waiting for her, I did a lighting evaluation and came up with a couple of ideas. SHE made the decision on how to light the venue and then she TESTED the lighting with both a light meter and with test exposures. We have, obviously, worked together a number of times but she still verified that it was right before moving onto the next preparation step.

zoomer · September 8, 2009

I'm with Scott.
What was described is not an atypical wedding at all.
Wedding photography is not easy. I repeat wedding photography is not easy.
Very seldom will things go according to plan. Someone is almost always late, your photography schedule WILL be cut short most of the time you have to build that into your schedule and you will still be short of time due to late people.
Sunday we did wedding where we were schedule to have 3 hours of photography time with the bride groom bridal party and families. We got 40 minutes total due to late people.
Every wedding will be a lighting challenge, keep it simple, the simpler you keep it the more you will be willing to react to the changes in schedule/plan.

Never trust another persons assessment of their own skills!!
If you are the main photography it is your responsibility to make sure you get the pictures and that they are good.
Really no excuses are acceptable, you either did the job or you didn't, if the pictures are no good it is the photographers fault, always!

ChatKat · September 8, 2009

Fluid
Weddings have a life of their own. I am there to document it as it is not as I envision it should be. I have a laundry list of wish it had beens but it's not my wedding - it's the bride and groom;'s.

This coming Saturday, I am doing a wedding outdoors at 10 am. When I was in on the prep schedule, I said that we need formals time. The timeline is set. As soon as the ceremony is over they have to move to the reception venue. No time for photos. Bride won't see the groom before the ceremony and no time after. No time at the reception venue because they are leaving for their honeymoon right from the venue and it will be too short as it is. Well, probably no formals unless I get some photos before the ceremony - where I have to be there ready to shoot at 7:30 am (I am a night owl). As long as I disclose what I can and can't do - it's their choice.

As for 2nds - they have to be supervised and I have to know their work well. The style has to fit mine too

pwp · September 8, 2009

I've had similar situations. B&G made several requests prior to wedding, then on the day of, they were extremely reluctant to cooperate or even want to take pics. I explained the situation to the Bride's parents after the fact, so that they could relay information if it came up. You do the best you can. I have a clause in my contract about "cooperative spirit" so that the B&G are informed well ahead of time that they are expected to participate, or else I cannot be held liable for missed shots.

Sam · September 8, 2009

Scott posted: "Repeat after me, "It is what it is" - keep that in mind."

It really depends on what the definition of is, is.

WingsOfLovePhoto:

As far as I am concerned vent away. We all need that sometimes.

Now whee are those photos?

Sam

JohnBiggs · September 8, 2009

Sounds like a wedding job. The situation is never ideal for the photographer. You have to be quick and make the most of it.

zoomer · September 8, 2009

By the way wings...
Don't take my post personally, I vent like crazy to my assistant, she could tell you stories.
This last wedding Saturday....the brides sister was 2 hours late, called 5 times, I can't find the hotel...I can't find the hotel....It's Boise Idaho for (*^%$%&^& how hard could it be. So the bride cried everytime she called so she had to have her makeup redone 3 times. So my 3 hour planned photo session turned into 40 minutes.

Then at the reception the three bridesmaids...one of them was separated from her husband and was all upset cause she just found out he cheated on her with someone.....well halfway through the reception turns out that because she could not take the guilt anymore one of the bridesmaids confesses that it was her who cheated with her best friends husband...now the bride is crying again....so they kicked the bad bad bridesmaid out of the wedding... OMG. But yeah I got all the pictures and they are good..if I say so myself.

Don't know if that helps but there it is lol...it is what it is...

SKnight · September 8, 2009

zoomer wrote:

By the way wings...
Don't take my post personally, I vent like crazy to my assistant, she could tell you stories.
This last wedding Saturday....the brides sister was 2 hours late, called 5 times, I can't find the hotel...I can't find the hotel....It's Boise Idaho for (*^%$%&^& how hard could it be. So the bride cried everytime she called so she had to have her makeup redone 3 times. So my 3 hour planned photo session turned into 40 minutes.

Then at the reception the three bridesmaids...one of them was separated from her husband and was all upset cause she just found out he cheated on her with someone.....well halfway through the reception turns out that because she could not take the guilt anymore one of the bridesmaids confesses that it was her who cheated with her best friends husband...now the bride is crying again....so they kicked the bad bad bridesmaid out of the wedding... OMG. But yeah I got all the pictures and they are good..if I say so myself.

Don't know if that helps but there it is lol...it is what it is...

Are you sure you didn't stumble onto the set of Days of Our Lives? Wow.

Shima · September 8, 2009

zoomer: wow that's some f'ed up drama, lol

wings: I always tell my bride at the beginning of the day that if she can accept that the day is not going to go 100% perfect and that things will likely run late or not be exactly as planned, she will have a happy wedding... and it always gets them to understand that the day is about them, and i'm just following their lead and capturing it as we go.

So when I on occasion don't have time for things or my bride doesn't want to go somewhere due to dress concerns, etc, at the end of the day everyone understands that we did what we could w/ the day and as said earlier by Scott "it is what it is." Live by this and your stress levels will go way down.

Funny (but super easily corrected) mistake I made at the first wedding where I had two 5D Mark II's... I had just gotten the 2nd 5D Mark II body a few days before the wedding, set the date and time... upload everything int lightroom to realize that I set the new 5D Mk II to a YEAR behind. Thankfully lightroom fixes this easily with the batch meta data correction, but that was one of those post wedding d'oh moments where if Lightroom hadn't come to the rescue, I might have cried. Thankfully I was aware lightroom could fix it and didn't need to... but my point is, we've all done things where later we're not so happy w/ our silly mistakes.

Qarik · September 8, 2009

hahahah...zoomer!

Wings of Love..I think often the phographer has vastly different level of expectations then the B&G. I think 1/2 the battle is changing your level of expectations on the fly and running with what you have.

zoomer · September 8, 2009

I am very sorry wings, I had no intent to hijack your post, please feel free to yell at me...but the bride from Saturday just called me and told me to delete every photo that bad bad bridesmaid was in....no big surprise...

sweet caroline · September 8, 2009

Take a nice hot bath, a long walk, a relaxed dinner, whatever it takes to get out of the emotional reaction. I've had shoots that were painful, and I was disappointed with the results, but once I really got into processing realized the pictures were actually pretty good. Of course you expect a lot of yourself, and it's natural to be disappointed, but you will likely feel better about it soon and just move on.

I'd love to see some of the shots you don't feel terrible about (even if they aren't quite up to your standards)!

Caroline

Moogle Pepper · September 8, 2009

Hmm.. Wings, just step back and don't look at them for a little bit. Go out, go to the city, do something fun. Like what Sweet_Caroline says, do something to get your mind off what has happened. And most likely when you start processing, they will turn out to be better than what you initially thought.

leaforte · September 8, 2009

The pink striped wallpaper, pink vertical blinds, cramped quarters. etc. ARE going to be the memory. The happy couple may, in the future, shed a tear that you captured it.

cdonovan · September 8, 2009

We understand because not all wedding shoots are magazine material from start to finish! It's just your job to capture them when they want to be captured, how they are that day.

It's a hard reality, when we want everything to be perfect, and well, that rarely, if ever, happens!:D

SKnight · September 9, 2009

zoomer wrote:

I am very sorry wings, I had no intent to hijack your post, please feel free to yell at me...but the bride from Saturday just called me and told me to delete every photo that bad bad bridesmaid was in....no big surprise...

Hopefully not causing too much threadjack.

I wouldn't give them to her, but I wouldn't delete them either. You never know.

[/threadjack]

Art Scott · September 9, 2009

SKnight wrote:

Hopefully not causing too much threadjack.

I wouldn't give them to her, but I wouldn't delete them either. You never know.

[/threadjack]

I agreee here and also the Bad BAd Brides maid just might contact you for a photo or 2 also........

I have been in your shoes many times, as a contract shootist you always get the weddings that the main photog doesn't want for what ever reason......just gotta keep a good attitude and shoot whatcha can and whatcha don't get ya don't get....or they don't get......It is what it is......

As someone suggested....a hot bath , long stroll.....oh hell hit the Hookah bar and fill that sucker with primo tequila and ice.....then puff away.....it'll take the blues away...................:D:D:D

Where dem pix?????

WingsOfLovePhoto · September 9, 2009

Sorry it has been so long for my reply. I really appreciate all of you sharing stories, telling me to snap out of it, or to relax...my motto always has been "it is what it is" (Scott you're mean

) in other parts of my life. I just never have had to relate to it in my photography life! I think I just expect too much of myself, and probably others too. I have been editing these pictures then walking away, went out to lunch etc...when I go back I realize they aren't all too bad. My contract only states 500-600 pictures and I will have no problem with that, and I feel better that I offered them a bridal shoot so I am giving them at least the option...they probably wont take it. I feel that mostly though the pictures I did get could have been gotten by anybody. There didn't seem to be much creative thought in any due to the time crunch and my talent lies more in that then in the fstops and shutter speeds. I did try though, actually was up on a chair (took my shoes off) trying to get a shot and got yelled at by the owner of the venue. Since I had so much time on my hands with the lateness there are probably too many flower and gown shots but whaddya gonna do

And Zoomer...I really think your's wins the prize, no worry about thread jack. I like hearing other stories, makes mine no so bad! But I wanted to add something to the puking bride in the other thread. Apparently somebody at this wedding had an "accident" and left underwears full of poo on the floor of the men's bathroom and the groom asked me to take a picture of it. Thankfully at that time it was cake cutting so I was able to stall and when asked again it was already cleaned up...whew... Being a nurse I am used to seeing that but taking a picture of it? Not so much....

Anyhow... I just uploaded some of the photos that were easy to edit. Still have to work on the ceremony and the party (the real challenge)but it's a start. Here is the link to the ones I have done... http://www.wingsoflovephoto.com/Weddings/Kim-and-Steve/9561928_minZM/1/644453847_iTW7D if you are interested in looking and letting me know what you think. And here is one of my favorites..... post edit...this actually is not the right one..ignore the blue color balance issues, that has been fixed..... oh and THANK YOU for the support and dgrin friendship

Sam · September 9, 2009

Sandy,

I think you did great. I believe they will be very happy.

I do have a question though............Why does your contract specify a number of shots?

While I think you have a lot of nice PJ style photos many are (in my opinion) way too similar. Why not pick the best photo of the shot you wanted. I think this will tell a better story than going through shots that are almost indistinguishable from each other.

Some shot seem to want more room at the bottom.

Again, don'r worry...................they will be happy.

Sam

WingsOfLovePhoto · September 9, 2009

Sam wrote:

Sandy,

I think you did great. I believe they will be very happy.

I do have a question though............Why does your contract specify a number of shots?

While I think you have a lot of nice PJ style photos many are (in my opinion) way too similar. Why not pick the best photo of the shot you wanted. I think this will tell a better story than going through shots that are almost indistinguishable from each other.

Some shot seem to want more room at the bottom.

Again, don'r worry...................they will be happy.

Sam

Thanks Sam...I just noticed that some are identical, not meant to be uploaded.... having issues with exporting from lightroom. It is sometimes doubling them and I am not aware. I will just hide those for now. And the story is kind of scattered at the moment because I haven't worked on the ceremony yet. That should help. My contract says 500-600 edited photos, but there may be more. It was recomended to me that I put a general number in there somewhere.

cdonovan · September 9, 2009

I was expecting to see a load of bad shots. They aren't bad, you're probably worried about delivering a certain number, which shouldn't be an issue!

I think you did well, fwiw, in the striped wallpaper room, the carpet was more mortifing than the wallpaper, imho!

You handled it all well, and all you can do is work with what you were given, right!:D

sweet caroline · September 9, 2009

The couple should be happy with your work. Stop worrying about it. I had my own wedding disappointment in May. On the big day, they just weren't really that interested in putting much time into the photos, but they wanted the lined up family shots. I had no time with just the couple, and hardly any time with just the bride. The dressing room was tiny and crowded, the lighting throughout the venue was terrible, no flash allowed in the ceremony, etc. But they really were a sweet couple, and they were thrilled with what I got.

Caroline

goldenstarphoto · September 10, 2009

I think you did a great job with what you had to work with.

"And I think I am going to tell my 2nd that the next wedding Oct 9th that I am going to do alone....tell him I just can't afford to use him, I really don't want to hurt his feelings.... "

Are you sure he isn't a member of DGRIN? If so, he already knows how you feel.............

PinkShoesRCool · September 10, 2009

I'm sure your clients will be happy. The photos you've posted so far are great, despite working with difficulty.

Brush off the experience, learn from it & then move on to the next one!

Scott_Quier · September 10, 2009

WingsOfLovePhoto wrote:

Sorry it has been so long for my reply. I really appreciate all of you sharing stories, telling me to snap out of it, or to relax...my motto always has been "it is what it is" (Scott you're mean ) in other parts of my life. I just never have had to relate to it in my photography life! I think I just expect too much of myself, and probably others too. I have been editing these pictures then walking away, went out to lunch etc...when I go back I realize they aren't all too bad.

Being the mean and nasty guy that I am

I gotta tell you just what I think of the photos in your gallery. I actually viewed them all, at least in thumbnail, so that I could really load up and give it to you with both barrels. So, I hope you're sitting down for this....

Like Sam said, there are a lot of them that are very similar to each other. But, that's about the only thing I can see that needs comment. The photos in the gallery (all 20 pages of them) look good, strong, competent, well focused and exposed and do a decent job of telling the story of the day - at least as far as you've gotten in the processing. I really think your client(s) are going to be well pleased with the results so stop beating yourself up over this. You done good!

FedererPhoto · September 10, 2009

JohnBiggs wrote:

Sounds like a wedding job. The situation is never ideal for the photographer. You have to be quick and make the most of it.

You said it!

Even though weddings are full of amazing photographic moments... they generally take place at the worst time of day, with a bunch of people trying to change things, with poor schedules, in an environment over which you have minimal, if any, control.

Anyone can make awesome wedding photographs on a overcast day with an amazing location and super-cooperative people. You really become a wedding photographer when you can do it at high noon on a cloudless day with people who hate your very guts.

angevin1 · September 10, 2009

WingsOfLovePhoto wrote:

So what I am getting at...how do you deal with the disappointment? I have felt sick all day that I didn't do a good job, that I didn't get what I should have due to all these obstacles.

I have been reading the posts now for a bit, and you've gotten some really good advice.

All along in my reading All I could think of was the disappointment...but not yours. Yours is easy to understand, we are and ought to be our worst critics. It's what raises you above the fray.

No, thinking of the disappointment of the Wedding party of the second Wedding I had the audacity to shoot. The Grooms Mom hired me. And She was happy with me and the results, but I'd venture to say she was alone in this. The B&G would have just as soon not had any photog. And the Brides fam made it abundantly clear that they thought little of me.

I showed up at my appointed time two hours early to shoot as much as could be gotten of events, and certain components of the bridal party to
decrease the time needed for post ceremony shots. The looks, the stares and the body language told me much. Even though I had reconnoitered the Church at an earlier time, I wasn't invited to the rehearsal, so I didn't get to talk to the clergy until D-Day. And then found out that the clergy didn't allow photography during the ceremony. A bit of quick work on my part did allow me to photograph, but they wanted and did seat me on the fifth row aisle seat. Umm, lessee, combined with a sanctuary with NO Windows whatsoever, candle light only and a D200 and D70, I'm amazed I got any photos worth having. The formals went along well with the Groom and his fam, all cut-ups and the like, but the Brides fam was just horrid.

I did the best I could. I cajoled, I teased and used many words to attempt to build confidence and joy where little was showing.

It was very hurtful to be treated this way, but in the end, I knew I had behaved well and kindly. I did a superb job with the criteria given and the treatment displayed.

I am glad so many folks post to this forum, because I learn so much just from reading.

How do you deal? Beware.... long whining post...

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