Probing question for discussion

Swartzy · December 30, 2009

Here's a stupid question: Have you ever looked at someone else's work and thought, "Man, I have a loooooooooong ways to go?" Fess up peeps and give me your thoughts on this.

What do you do about it? Do you try and emulate? Copy? Shrug your shoulders? See more creatively or give up or just keep doing what you are doing?

Art Scott · December 30, 2009

I am always looking for inspiration from other fotogs....I have a bookmrk of over 3K fotogs world wide ........I even see works of long gone fotogs that I wish I could be half as good or lucky as they were to get certain shots..........most of the ones I crave to be as good as or as inspired as are either retired, dead or european......Euro fotogs seem to get more liberal clients from family portraits to wedding to commericial ad work.........but my american friends and family say it is loose morals...not that they are less uptight:D

heatherfeather · December 30, 2009

Um yeah. I just try new things... perhaps copy a little.. buy more gear... try again... Drag my kids around for more practice... Hang out on a great forum I know of... Shoot up miles of memory and repeat

-But-

I am having a lot of fun doing Angie's "best of" slideshow, because I can see how far I have come in just this year! There is hope, yet! Now I can't wait to see my best of 2010!

Mox · December 30, 2009

Oh heck yeah. All the time!

I keep reading and playing around and practicing. And try to keep in mind what I liked about it the next time I shoot.

Mox · December 30, 2009

heatherfeather wrote:

Um yeah. I just try new things... perhaps copy a little.. buy more gear... try again... Drag my kids around for more practice... Hang out on a great forum I know of... Shoot up miles of memory and repeat

-But-

I am having a lot of fun doing Angie's "best of" slideshow, because I can see how far I have come in just this year! There is hope, yet! Now I can't wait to see my best of 2010!

Oh how I wish I had kids for that! (Wait, is that the wrong reason???)

Agnieszka · December 31, 2009

Swartzy wrote:

Here's a stupid question: Have you ever looked at someone else's work and thought, "Man, I have a loooooooooong ways to go?" Fess up peeps and give me your thoughts on this.

What do you do about it? Do you try and emulate? Copy? Shrug your shoulders? See more creatively or give up or just keep doing what you are doing?

YES! That's how I feel about your pics, seriously, ... you're depressing me!!

I try my hands on their style. See what I like about their work and try to achieve something similar with my camera toys ... not a easy thing to do. I think my 2010 resolution will be to use more external lights .... (Hmmm, New Year resolutions .... ohhh, that might be my next weeks "weekly discussion"

) I somehow remember I had the same resolution for this year ... hmmmmmm

heatherfeather wrote:

I am having a lot of fun doing Angie's "best of" slideshow, because I can see how far I have come in just this year! There is hope, yet! Now I can't wait to see my best of 2010!

Ohhhh, yay!! I can't wait to see it

I just finished mine, but I'm sill working on one more (slide show) before I post it on my blog tomorrow

Yay! Soooo ready to be done with it ... Have to say, it's no fun to go through that many pics

Mox wrote:

Oh how I wish I had kids for that! (Wait, is that the wrong reason???)

Ohhhh haha, I can't wait for my little "model" / victim to show up next year, hehe

coldclimb · December 31, 2009

The world of climbing photography that has been my focus mostly by circumstance is relatively small compared to weddings, but yes for years I've watched other climbing photographers' photos in magazines and online and been jealous. I still do. People like Jorg Zeidelhack, Neil Monteith, and Simon Carter seem to always have better pictures than me.

But then as I grow and get better, I realize that most of adventure photography is really just BEING there in the first place, and the technical aspects of my photos compared to theirs are often very similar. Their photos are undeniably awesome and I don't mean to bring them down, but sometimes I feel like I'm right there too, just a little rookie without the name these guys have acquired for themselves over time through their high quality work.

I believe someday if I stay around long enough, someone will watch MY OWN work and strive to attain images on a par with it.

Hopefully we'll get to hit the rocks together and share the experience.

mmmatt · December 31, 2009

Ha! yeah right. I'm the friggin bomb dude. I look at other peoples schwag and think "Man you should be as good as me!".

Or, after I wake up from that cocky little dream (obviously the above is a joke), I do look at others work in an envious way, but there is never any feeling of insecurity, or "I'll never be able to do that" but more of a feeling of excitement in how I could do that. I look, I learn, and (seriously this time)... I am confident I can do it. I'll do it my way, and I may flop trying to do it the first 100 times, but I'll get it because I want to. So yeah... in that way I really am cocky! My mother taught me that I could do anything I want to do... faith in myself, my maker, and an overall belief that it is all inside of me and simply up to me.

Sounds to me like you are in a winter funk my friend! Throw that crap away and just go back to being awesome!

Matt

Jeremy Winterberg · December 31, 2009

I can name 7 photographers that have posted in this thread so far that I am envious of...

bow Seriously, you all have mad skills.

But, if there is a single photographer out there that says, I'm the best, no one can compare... they need to shoot themselves in the face.

I think we all are envious of each other.

Sometimes I can really pull off a stunning image even though I've only been taking photography seriously for about a year and a half. But, sometimes I just flat out suck! Thats when I look at everyone elses work, learn from it, and apply it to my work and I see wonderful improvement. I hope others view my work in the same way.

Great discussion Swartzy!

oh, and I'm scraping together a few images for my best of 2009 slideshow as well... although, I don't have that many wedding photos (have only seconded [does from the crowd count as seconding? haha] one wedding)... OH WELL!

Richard · December 31, 2009

Agnieszka wrote:

YES! That's how I feel about your pics, seriously, ... you're depressing me!!

I think it goes with the territory in any creative field. There will always be someone better, so deal with it. It is useful, though, to analyze carefully why certain pics just blow your socks off: is it the composition? The light? The color? The subject? All that and more? What? Then try to pay more attention to whatever it is that you have found.

Moogle Pepper · December 31, 2009

Swartzy wrote:

Here's a stupid question: Have you ever looked at someone else's work and thought, "Man, I have a loooooooooong ways to go?" Fess up peeps and give me your thoughts on this.

What do you do about it? Do you try and emulate? Copy? Shrug your shoulders? See more creatively or give up or just keep doing what you are doing?

Yes.

Hang my head in shame.

Just kidding! I look for the differences and see if I can do better with the next.

Ohhhh, yay!! I can't wait to see it I just finished mine, but I'm sill working on one more (slide show) before I post it on my blog tomorrow Yay! Soooo ready to be done with it ... Have to say, it's no fun to go through that many pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mox
Oh how I wish I had kids for that! (Wait, is that the wrong reason???)

Ohhhh haha, I can't wait for my little "model" / victim to show up next year, hehe

That's what my brother, sister in law, and nephew are for!!

Another reason I travel with them all the time! Lots of modeling for me and playing around with most ideas!

But get to your slideshow!! Sheesh!

Mishka · December 31, 2009

heatherfeather wrote:

I am having a lot of fun doing Angie's "best of" slideshow, because I can see how far I have come in just this year! There is hope, yet! Now I can't wait to see my best of 2010!

That's exactly how I feel...I've been going through my photos from this past year, and I sometimes shudder at the early weddings. Not that they were awful...just that I think I've come a long way. That's encouraging! The challenge for me is always to improve and be constantly thinking of creative shots to take. It's too easy to sit back and be comfortable in the familiar.

I do subscribe to several photographers blogs...and use some of their ideas as a way to make me think about how I can be more creative with my own work. I think I'm always going to want to be improving.

Sam · December 31, 2009

Swartzy wrote:

Here's a stupid question: Have you ever looked at someone else's work and thought, "Man, I have a loooooooooong ways to go?" Fess up peeps and give me your thoughts on this.

What do you do about it? Do you try and emulate? Copy? Shrug your shoulders? See more creatively or give up or just keep doing what you are doing?

If I look to long at many of the images posted here I get really depressed.

I generally deal with it by getting drunk, screaming, wailing, banging my head against the fireplace, (it's brick), going to the emergency room for stitches, sequestering myself in a cold dark cave without food or water for 48 hours.

Other than that I find other work inspirational.

Sam

Moogle Pepper · December 31, 2009

Sam wrote:

If I look to long at many of the images posted here I get really depressed.

I generally deal with it by getting drunk, screaming, wailing, banging my head against the fireplace, (it's brick), going to the emergency room for stitches, sequestering myself in a cold dark cave without food or water for 48 hours.

Other than that I find other work inspirational.

Sam

+1

zoomer · December 31, 2009

Constantly.
I am always looking at the work of the best photographers. I pick out what I like about what they do and try to do the same thing. I have learned so much that way over the years.
Then from all that my own style gradually emerges. I try not to ever blatantly copy any one elses shots.
As a photographer when you start thinking you are as good as it gets then you stop growing and improving.
Every 3 or 4 months I look back on my own work and say to myself "What was I thinking?".
On the flip side of that growth it gets very expensive because every six months I have to get all new prints for the office and sample books because my work changes so much.

VayCayMom · December 31, 2009

Well OF COURSE!!! I am a noob, just 2 yrs old really. Almost everyone's work is better than mine.

I find it very exciting to find stuff that blows me away.

Once I just emailed the photographer (Angie!)and asked how she achieved a certain look I admired, and she was VERY nice and gave me some tips!

For me the best thing about finding photographers work that inspires you is when you see your work heading toward that " look" you admire.

And I am still trying to define what my style is or should be or whatever is the real me, so it is all just part of what makes photography so much fun for me.

I never thought I would suddenly find I wanted to be a photographer at my age, mid 50s, not to mention what a surprise to realize I have a real talent for it as well. So it is all exciting to me!

kres · December 31, 2009

Well...

As I see it, you've got 3 ways to really polish your craft:

1) Have natural, perfect skill

2) Have aptitude, and practice to hone your skills

3) Have desire and apply the millwork to improve methodically.

I've been told that I'm #2 - but when looking at some of the work here, sometimes feel like it's more like scenario 3 that improves me.

How do I deal? I've learned most of my hard skills by some type of imitation and reconstruction. Once I think I've got the mill work down, I start trying to make it look like my own.

Recently, I pulled some old shots off a card that I'd thought lost, and was super excited. I had thought that that roll was going to have some spectacular stuff on it. Turns out I made so many technical mistakes that out of 100 shots, ~3 were of any value. It was depressing. But then I deconstructed the event: I was out of practice with low light shooting, I had chosen the wrong body for the conditions, the lens was fast, but the autofocus was not...

I spent the night drilling - and though I felt like a tool while doing it (and the kids and the cat were VERY annoyed by the end....), at the end of my self imposed punishment, I was nailing the shots that I'd flubbed so badly before. Later I took those technical skills and applied a artful style that I had coveted here and came up with some shots that I'm really proud of.

It's a lot of damn work - but even though MUCH of the stuff here is better then what I can produce consistently, its SO rewarding to improve I keep it up. Making progress is an addiction, no matter how small.

Agnieszka · December 31, 2009

VayCayMom wrote:

Well OF COURSE!!! I am a noob, just 2 yrs old really. Almost everyone's work is better than mine. I find it very exciting to find stuff that blows me away.

Once I just emailed the photographer (Angie!)and asked how she achieved a certain look I admired, and she was VERY nice and gave me some tips!

For me the best thing about finding photographers work that inspires you is when you see your work heading toward that " look" you admire.

And I am still trying to define what my style is or should be or whatever is the real me, so it is all just part of what makes photography so much fun for me.

I never thought I would suddenly find I wanted to be a photographer at my age, mid 50s, not to mention what a surprise to realize I have a real talent for it as well. So it is all exciting to me!

Haha, awwww, well, I'm always happy to help

I guess it never hurts to ask, most stuff you'll be able to google, but then there are those photographers where you look at their pics and you don't even know where to start ....

There are some crazy things out there. I always save my favorite pics (that I find on the web) in a special folder on my computer and whenever I feel uninspired it always helps to look at those pics and .... as Richard said, figure out what it is that you loved about the pic, and try to find your way to achieve the same look

Llywellyn · December 31, 2009

Oh heck ya'.

Usually I sit and stare at whatever creative-soul-crushing—I mean awe-inspiring—photo I've found and try to figure out why it has that effect on me: story, emotion, posing, lighting, concept, composition, processing? Then I usually give it a try, to the best of my abilities. Many times I futz it up, or I'm unhappy with my version of it, but in the emulating, I inevitably learn something new. Sometimes that something becomes a small part of my workflow, which seems in a constant state of flux. :giggle

Most of the time, others' work just fills my head with more ideas, which inspires more excitement and planning, until it reaches an overwhelming place and I have to talk myself back from the ledge of renting a large studio space with a huge pool and pulleys.

Seeing how far I have to go is depressing, yes, and then inspiring. I like knowing there's so much more to learn, because otherwise I fear I'd become bored, as has happened to many of my past creative endeavors. This one looks like it's going to stick, because I get to see so many different directions and interpretations it can take.

Bring on more depression-inspiration! Depresspiration? Inspression? ...you know what I mean.

Swartzy · December 31, 2009

It's wonderful to hear all your analogies and methods. These are very helpful to all readers. I felt it would be a good discussion as none of us are an "island" and most often are affected the same ways.

I too work on emulating a particular look of those who are inspirational. There is some phenominal talent out there, and yes, I too shake my head sometimes wondering how on Earth a look is produced.

One thing I've been doing lately (since these silly cell phone come with a camera anyway) is take a pic of the screen and save it in a folder...concepts for posing, lighting, attitude, mood, look, etc. I'll view them about once a week....kind of like having a digital version of a "look book". These pics come in handy when desiring to pose groups, couples, seniors and the like. It also affords concepts for post processing as we all know, any significant work goes through quite a bit to bring a photo to a "stellar" level.

@Matt

: I'm not really in a winter funk....just wanted to probe and get ideas how everyone deals with the undeniable issues as we all are our own worst critics..and we all want to keep improving our craft. I will say though that winter does slow down the cool shot making and the brain has more time to think about stuff....I'm going to set up some bridal shoots with models here in the near future...maybe outside in the cold and snow...see if I can come up with something radically cool (no pun intended).

Thanks gang...keep weighing in.....we all need to feed off each other....ha! Vampire Photographers

Darren Troy C · December 31, 2009

Absolutley! Inspiration without motivation is ludicrous. I keep an on-going, ever-growing set of images that I don't copy "word-for-word" but certainly try and put my own spin on what it is I like about the image I'm seeing. Creativity, to the Nth degree, needs to come from somewhere other than a manufactured presence. However, gaining perspective from someone elses work is the sincerest form of flattery, is it not?

WillCAD · December 31, 2009

Every time I read the Dgrin boards and look at the pics here, I think, "Man, my pics are utter crap."

Then I go look through my pics for a while and still think, "Man, my pics are utter crap."

But the crap stinks less today than it did in years past. Eventually I hope to get to the point where I think my pics are "good."

Kinkajou · January 1, 2010

Not that I have much to go on here with only two weddings under my belt - and one of those as a second shooter - but for me the answer is research research research. I know I have a long way to go, and as Jeremy said, many of you guys are 'spectacular' in my book and are at a level I hope to achieve someday. Looking at what gets posted gives here me hope and inspiration.

I have a limited budget and can't afford photoshop or external lighting or a 5DM2 or a 70-200/1.4IS, so all I can do is improve my skills with what limited equipment I've got. I check out wedding/photography blogs regularly and subscribe to a few of my favorites as well as follow the DGrin boards pretty closely in order to see what's going on. I'm always looking for things that stand out, and trying to figure out why I like them.

Before a shoot, I review all of those things and take notes so that if I get stuck in a shoot or I can't remember what that really great thing was that I saw, I've got it written down and can give it a try. Then I just shoot like crazy and hope something good comes out of it

I guess my rules would be:
1. research research research
2. shoot shoot shoot

You guys are awesome, keep up the good work

Jeremy Winterberg · January 1, 2010

Kinkajou wrote:

Before a shoot, I review all of those things and take notes so that if I get stuck in a shoot or I can't remember what that really great thing was that I saw, I've got it written down and can give it a try. Then I just shoot like crazy and hope something good comes out of it

I write down every idea I have in a journal. Also pictures that I wish to achieve a similar look I will print it out and glue it in that journal. The journal goes with me on every shoot. I have everything in there... even my business plan I'm working on.

The past 3 days I've had nothing but non stop ideas flowing through my mind. I haven't slept since I decided I wanted to get office space for my studio. I litterally did not fall asleep last night. In 2 hours I will have been up for 24 hours straight. The nights before I didn't fall asleep till 7am, and I would sleep till 3-4pm.

Tomrrow I have an engagment shoot for one of my weddings this summer... its supposed to be 1 degree above for the high. Sometimes I wish my camera wasn't made of magnesium alloy! And because of that shoot, even more ideas are flowing.

A Taste Of My Mind That Is Going Insane Right Now wrote:

Locations outside that will look halfway decent with overcast skies and snow: Pheonix Park, Banbury Place, Carson Park, Rod 'n Gun Park, that little church near the cemetery, that one alley near that one tall building downtown by the library.

What angles do you want? Wide aiming at the sky maybe? Idk - perhaps if there are sweet looking clouds, otherwise it will just look like crap. Remember to seperate them per the advice given last time... don't want people yelling at you again!

I've been like this all week long. I've written 20 pages back and front in this stupid journal with ideas... layouts... budgets... gear I need... gear I want... realistic start-up dates... obsticles that will deter me... NEVERENDING!!!! I'm gonna overdose on sleeping pills tonight.

Blurmore · January 1, 2010

Short answer...no. I don't look at other people's work and think that I have a long way to go. I look at people's business and think...wow I have a long way to go.

When I feel like I'm in a rut, and especially at the beginning of the year I make a cheat sheet of poses I see on the internets. Basically I make a B&W tear sheet that I keep in my camera bag, then if those poses feel right for the couple...I try them out. I work as a second photographer for a studio that runs through the SAME poses like a machine with every client whether they are "good" for that client or not, he chalks it up to "branding" or some bull, but he is vastly more successful than I so I'm not knocking it. If however I reduced myself to doing the exact same thing with every client I doubt I could do it for more than a year and still be interested.

Right now I started to go through my stuff I didn't edit (sub contract jobs) for retrospective year end stuff, and I STILL can't look at it yet. So I need more time away from it. I have a job booked next week for the large national company I work for, it is as a second which is good, because the way I feel right now about my work, I'm not sure I could pull off being a primary.

mmmatt · January 1, 2010

Jeremy: Slow down big fella! Get some sleep, then turn that brain on again. Prime with coffee, and then start it up slowly!

Jason, your work is solid man, you have no worries. I can't tell you how to get the bookings because I'm working on that too. Use your 2nd shooter gig as a way to fly way outside of the box! that is the best part about 2nd shooter'n.

As for the inspiration of others work. I find that if I describe the picture instead of printing the picture, it makes for better inspiration. Try it! My minds eye is where I find my real motivation.

subject in focus moving background blurred.
Ring hand on foreground object, subject blurred in background.
Big picture, small subject
Shadows from railing framing face
His kiss on her forehead she slowly looks up, eyes first
Footsies
hair light, snoot on 1/2 face
Edge of long shadow
Subject corner of frame, shoot wide and away

This is enough to jog my memory and then I can more easily place my objective around my subject instead of trying to place my subject into the objective. Not sure if that makes sense! I have a hard time looking through pictures and trying to "do that pose" when I am with clients, but running through a written list of objectives brings the essence of those appreciated shots back enough that I can utilize them in my own way.

Swartzy my friend, it still sounds like a funk to me!

matt

joshhuntnm · January 2, 2010

I don't think there any thing wrong with copying. Probably the pics you copy were copied by the person you are looking at. what looks like creativity can often be copied.

of course, background and setting can't be copied and that makes a world of difference. Also, ever notice the really great photographers only take really beautiful brides?

Jeremy Winterberg · January 2, 2010

joshhuntnm wrote:

Also, ever notice the really great photographers only take really beautiful brides?

Yes, I have noticed this... and am jealous that they have countless beautiful brides coming to them. Enough that they can refuse the uglier ones and stlil be well off.

well, I fell asleep at 8... woke up at 3 (10 minutes ago). crap. taking another sleeping pill, I want to be out till 10 am. Engagement shoot at 1pm and I want to be well rested. Not looking forward to the cold, its supposed to be more like -8 now for the high vs 1 above. Definitely excited for lunch... They're treating me to Panera Bread, never ate there before... any suggestions?

WillCAD · January 2, 2010

Jeremy Winterberg wrote:

Yes, I have noticed this... and am jealous that they have countless beautiful brides coming to them. Enough that they can refuse the uglier ones and stlil be well off.

well, I fell asleep at 8... woke up at 3 (10 minutes ago). crap. taking another sleeping pill, I want to be out till 10 am. Engagement shoot at 1pm and I want to be well rested. Not looking forward to the cold, its supposed to be more like -8 now for the high vs 1 above. Definitely excited for lunch... They're treating me to Panera Bread, never ate there before... any suggestions?

Panera has pretty good food. We have a bunch of Panera locations in this part of the country; there are more of them than there are Starbucks!

Here's the soups menu; on a frigid day, I recommend sticking with something hot.
http://www.panerabread.com/menu/cafe/soups.php

The broccoli-cheddar and baked potato soups seem to be the most popular. Both are excellent and pretty hearty for such a cold day.

Aside from that... cover up! And stop by Home Depot and pick up a bunch of those chemical hand and foot warmers fir inside your clothes.

joshhuntnm · January 2, 2010

Swartzy wrote:

Here's a stupid question: Have you ever looked at someone else's work and thought, "Man, I have a loooooooooong ways to go?" Fess up peeps and give me your thoughts on this.

What do you do about it? Do you try and emulate? Copy? Shrug your shoulders? See more creatively or give up or just keep doing what you are doing?

Think about this Swartzy--we all emulate you!!

Matthew Saville · January 2, 2010

Swartzy wrote:

Here's a stupid question: Have you ever looked at someone else's work and thought, "Man, I have a loooooooooong ways to go?" Fess up peeps and give me your thoughts on this.

What do you do about it? Do you try and emulate? Copy? Shrug your shoulders? See more creatively or give up or just keep doing what you are doing?

I think that's the only way to live. I can't imagine NOT beating myself up on a regular basis, it drives me to improve my craft.

You can always tell when another photographer DOESN'T do this- They take the same boring images year after year, and they never feel driven to improve. They admire good photography, but they never sit down and discern what is DIFFERENT between their work and the good photography; they never get down on themselves and throw away half their portfolio because they realize they can do better. No matter how good I get at this craft, I hope there will always be someone out there who can put me in my place. It's good for my own improvement, and it's healthy for my ego. :-)

=Matt=

Probing question for discussion

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