I think that's the only way to live. I can't imagine NOT beating myself up on a regular basis, it drives me to improve my craft.
You can always tell when another photographer DOESN'T do this- They take the same boring images year after year, and they never feel driven to improve. They admire good photography, but they never sit down and discern what is DIFFERENT between their work and the good photography; they never get down on themselves and throw away half their portfolio because they realize they can do better. No matter how good I get at this craft, I hope there will always be someone out there who can put me in my place. It's good for my own improvement, and it's healthy for my ego. :-)
=Matt=
Upon further thought, however, I have to caveat this whole discussion with:
It's VERY easy to get overwhelmed in an un-healthy way. I realized that this morning as I was checking my Twitter feed. I'm following 100% photographers, industry news and that kinda stuff. So I get bombarded with tweets like "Business is great in 2010!" ...and... "Booked another wedding today, consulting with five more brides this week!" ...or... "come to my workshop! I'll teach you how to make tons of money or take stunning photos, even if you're a total newbie!" ...or... "click here to learn how to photoshop your crappy images so they look great, or how to pose a subject in 3 easy steps, or the 10 tips for getting into business..."
And so on and so forth. This morning I had enough. I'll never out-book photographer X. I'll never out-shoot photographer Y. And I just don't need photographer Z telling me that the YEARS of busting my ass at photography were a waste because they've got 10 easy steps for newbies to surpass my artistic skill or business success in just a few months.
My point is, if you're getting past the point of "man, I have a looong ways to go" and you're getting to the point of real depression / jealousy, ...it's time to throttle back on your daily dose of competition.
It's great to admire other photographers work, and it's healthy if you realize how much better you can get. But it's extremely un-healthy if you go down certain paths too. And especially in this phase of "social networking rocks!" ...it's all too easy to overload on competitive spirit.
Feeling driven to do better next time is good. Feeling so down that you wanna call it quits and give away your camera is NOT good...
Matt, if this was a facebook note, I would like this ten times over. I am hoping to toss my current portfolio when 2010 comes in. I hope I do much better, so I have been tinkering around in the background doing so.
Also, I hate all those tweets you mention about! It's great others are getting awesome business! But I like real people with real minds, not just blatant marketing.
Originally Posted by joshhuntnm Also, ever notice the really great photographers only take really beautiful brides?
Yes, I have noticed this... and am jealous that they have countless beautiful brides coming to them. Enough that they can refuse the uglier ones and stlil be well off.
It is because those brides will do almost anything to get the best photogs. If they are willing to pay that price they are also more inclined to pay much much much more attention to their health and general appearance. It's just a matter of fact. and the photographers know it. So they capitalize on it and base much of their work on those.
It is because those brides will do almost anything to get the best photogs. If they are willing to pay that price they are also more inclined to pay much much much more attention to their health and general appearance. It's just a matter of fact. and the photographers know it. So they capitalize on it and base much of their work on those.
True... to a point. I just booked a wedding this weekend (and have 25 more consultations this week... just kidding! that was a joke... don't virtually karate chop me!) where the bride is not one of those perfect barbie girly girl gals... and my prices are higher than they have ever been. But it is also true that weddings where the couple is willing to pay more for photography.. chances are they paid more for everything else too, including boob jobs, tanning and hairdos.
True... to a point. I just booked a wedding this weekend (and have 25 more consultations this week... just kidding! that was a joke... don't virtually karate chop me!) where the bride is not one of those perfect barbie girly girl gals... and my prices are higher than they have ever been. But it is also true that weddings where the couple is willing to pay more for photography.. chances are they paid more for everything else too, including boob jobs, tanning and hairdos.
KARATE VIRTUAL CHOP!! Austin Powers style! edit: I wrote Aston haha!
Here's a stupid question: Have you ever looked at someone else's work and thought, "Man, I have a loooooooooong ways to go?" Fess up peeps and give me your thoughts on this.
What do you do about it? Do you try and emulate? Copy? Shrug your shoulders? See more creatively or give up or just keep doing what you are doing?
Umm ... oh, heck yeah. Let's see, there's Swartzy, heatherfeather, Agnieszka, urbanaries, jeffreaux2, photogmomma, Shay Stephens, divamum, Moogle Pepper, Mishka, Llywellyn, Blurmore, .... and the list just goes on and on.
By the same token, I try to keep it in perspective - I know I have limitations and I'll never be as good as many others here and elsewhere. I try to measure my abilities, improvements, etc against where I was this time last year rather than against others. If I'm better than I was, well that's (usually) good enough for me. It's all about the journey rather than the destination (or so I like to try to keep in mind).
Here's a stupid question: Have you ever looked at someone else's work and thought, "Man, I have a loooooooooong ways to go?" Fess up peeps and give me your thoughts on this.
What do you do about it? Do you try and emulate? Copy? Shrug your shoulders? See more creatively or give up or just keep doing what you are doing?
I'm pretty much a newb, right? But when I look at other photographers and I admire their photos, I don't think to myself, "Man, I have a looooooooooong ways to go." No. I think to myself, "I will get there." That's always my mindset. Even when I'm beset with negative thoughts and insecurities, this little phrase squiggles it's way into my subconscious and I feel better. I will get there.
Because I do still have a ways to go. But my goals are clear and bulleted, and if I have to measure myself against other photographers I know I'll *never* get to my own goals lol.
Swartzy, the day an artist DOESN'T think that is they day they have have either given in to hubris, or have become a hack who just doesn't care any more. Realising that there is no"perfect" and that we can always do better next time is what keeps it worth doing, IMO, what drives us on. "A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?" and all that. (with apologies to Browning)
This is a great thread, and I particularly love the quotes below:
I think that's the only way to live. I can't imagine NOT beating myself up on a regular basis, it drives me to improve my craft.
You can always tell when another photographer DOESN'T do this- They take the same boring images year after year, and they never feel driven to improve. They admire good photography, but they never sit down and discern what is DIFFERENT between their work and the good photography; they never get down on themselves and throw away half their portfolio because they realize they can do better. No matter how good I get at this craft, I hope there will always be someone out there who can put me in my place. It's good for my own improvement, and it's healthy for my ego. :-)
By the same token, I try to keep it in perspective - I know I have limitations and I'll never be as good as many others here and elsewhere. I try to measure my abilities, improvements, etc against where I was this time last year rather than against others. If I'm better than I was, well that's (usually) good enough for me. It's all about the journey rather than the destination (or so I like to try to keep in mind).
I think to myself, "I will get there." That's always my mindset. Even when I'm beset with negative thoughts and insecurities, this little phrase squiggles it's way into my subconscious and I feel better. I will get there.
Swartzy, the day an artist DOESN'T think that is they day they have have either given in to hubris, or have become a hack who just doesn't care any more. Realising that there is no"perfect" and that we can always do better next time is what keeps it worth doing, IMO, what drives us on. "A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?" and all that. (with apologies to Browning)
This is a great thread, and I particularly love the quotes below:
Amen to that. I'm always comparing my work to others, I truly believe that because of Dgrin and the ability to do just that, that it makes me a better photographer year after year.
My favorite thing each year is to compare versus the previous year and see just how much I've improved. Anytime you think you're peaking, just bite your tongue and wait until the following year and blow yourself away all over again with what you didn't realize you could do!
Interesting thread! I'm certainly blown away by many, many, many photographers, and my wife is constantly hearing me talk about how I wish I could do such-and-such. However, I know I'm quite new to this (just got my first DSLR about 9 months ago) and I have a ton to learn. It's hard with a job, an almost 3 y/o + another on the way, and grad school, to find much time to practice. As I am finishing my masters in May, I'm looking forward to having a teeny bit more time to improve.
My slight inversion of this question is, do you ever blow yourself away? I don't mean extreme hubris or thinking you're just the greatest photog ever and all others should bow before your greatness, but do you ever find yourself looking at something you've created and inspiring yourself? My two favorite photos I've (ever) taken are of my daughter picking flowers (weeds actually, but hey, she was just barely 2 ). They're not technically great, but I just love them. I had them framed for my wife for Xmas, and I will just stand in the hall and stare at them. I'm never thinking anything like "man, I'm awesome," in fact, I'm sure other people would look at them and consider them quite ordinary. But I do look at them and wish that I could more regularly produce photos that I would love as much, b/c looking through the rest of my stuff, these 2 must surely be totally accidental! One thing that makes me happy when I look at them, however, is knowing that they aren't accidental, and I actually was trying to do what I ended up with, so that gives me a little confidence going forward.
So anyway, we must all like what we're doing, or we wouldn't keep doing it, but do you ever have moments like this, when you maybe just can't believe that you actually created what you're looking at? Or does that only happen to me because I'm such a neophyte?
Yep, I have a 20x30 gallery wrap on my wall in black and white of a weed in the White Sands National Park in New Mexico that I took this summer. Every time I look at it I feel inspired to create more amazing photographs like it.
My slight inversion of this question is, do you ever blow yourself away? I don't mean extreme hubris or thinking you're just the greatest photog ever and all others should bow before your greatness, but do you ever find yourself looking at something you've created and inspiring yourself? ...
So anyway, we must all like what we're doing, or we wouldn't keep doing it, but do you ever have moments like this, when you maybe just can't believe that you actually created what you're looking at? Or does that only happen to me because I'm such a neophyte?
Good question. Yes, I genuinely enjoy looking at my photos. I guess it makes sense, because they're composed and processed to please my eye, but I'm occasionally really impressed.
My slight inversion of this question is, do you ever blow yourself away? I don't mean extreme hubris or thinking you're just the greatest photog ever and all others should bow before your greatness, but do you ever find yourself looking at something you've created and inspiring yourself?
Not exactly "blow myself away", but I certainly take pride in certain images, especially those where I know that it was actual skill/technique and active decisions on my part that made the shot work rather than only luck and a tailwind to have pushed the shutter at the right time by chance. I have a few where I knew HOW to set it up for success before I started (ie right lens choices, right location choices, right framing choices, right lighting choices, right exposure choices), and could therefore take advantage of the bullseye moments that were presented to me once things got going, and actually felt in command of what I captured; I'm genuinely proud of those pictures.
For me the hard part is doing that consistently - the technique part of my brain still isn't "automatic" enough yet and I get some kind of weird right brain/left brain inconsistency going on in the heat of the moment. Improving, yes, but it's still where I feel I fail. Sometimes I want to kick myself afterward for forgetting about something I KNOW how to do... and simply didn't incorporate at the time because the artistic side of my brain was so busy seeing things and posing and interacting and etc etc that I forgot something stupidly basic. So when I see a decent shot where I NAILED it and know how/why I nailed it and that it was something I did rather than just getting lucky, I do feel quite pleased with myself.
But then I look at the work of bloomphotog, or heatherfeather, or agnieszka, or swartzy or {insert name of any of the many awesome 'togs in here and elsewhere} and know how far I have to go and... we start the topic all over again
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I always look at the work of others in awe. There was a shot posted here recently of a couple on the dance floor. available light only from an overhead spot. Unbelievable. And the poster was asking if anyone liked it.
On the other hand, i see some adds that tout the photog as being the best ever and wonder who would pay for that stuff.
I don't profess to be a pro, actually I've only gotten serious about photography about a year ago. I know I have a long way to go to capture images of the same quality as most togs on this message board, so I keep coming back to Dgrin and look at others work, and try and figure out how they got the results that they got, and then try to incorporate some of it the next time I get the camera out of the bag. Over the past year I've seen some improvement in my available light shots, but still need to work on that some more, and I owe my improvement to those who commented on my earlier shots that I posted. As a result of the improvement, I've been asked to be the track photographer at one of the local drag strips for the 2010 season. The owner of the track is also going to get me credentials to shoot the upcoming "Pinks All Out" event at Maple Grove Speedway in May.
GaryB
GaryB “The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it!” - Ansel Adams
I'm so glad to know I'm not the only one who drools on everyone elses photography and wishes to be as good! I will keep trying, I am determined You guys are great!
The way this discussion has gone it has brought up another point in my mind and that is comparing to yourself. I just submitted 25 pics to the local newspaper for an on-line wedding feature they are doing and after agonizing for 3 days over what pictures to use I finally made my selections and sent them off at the last minute.
After looking back I realized that half of them were from my most recent wedding. A wedding where I didn't even look at the pictures for a couple of days for fear that there was a lot of junk. Absolutely pushed to the edge of my frazeledness, but low and behold it is (in my mind) my best work yet. That "auto-mode" that Diva speaks of is surfacing for me.
It seems that many photogs put too much into the technical aspects or not enough. Middle ground seems hard to find in that respect. Getting to where the technical stuff comes easy will allow you, the photog to really create from within. Not to say that technical perfection is mandatory, but competency is.
So why do I love my last set most? Is it because these images are newest to me or because I am improving with each set? I don't know, but I think comparing to others will show you where you need to be and then comparing to yourself will ultimately show you how to get there. I've personally got a long way to go and in truth, I hope than when I have been doing this as long as Swartzy I still feel that way, and like Swartzy still feel the need to reinvent myself from time to time.
There are a bunch of people here that are just awesome and whose work I admire. Of course, look at the various pros is helpful and sometimes even the not so pro shots are helpful in that there's an idea worth a second look.
John. Thanks for those two climbing photogs. A quick look through the galleries was pretty cool. I was reminded of an interview I read with Corey Rich (www.coreyrich.com). In it, he talked about the time spent thinking about what shots he wanted and the effort taken to position to get his shots. Amazing line of work for sure.
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So why do I love my last set most? Is it because these images are newest to me or because I am improving with each set? I don't know, but I think comparing to others will show you where you need to be and then comparing to yourself will ultimately show you how to get there. I've personally got a long way to go and in truth, I hope than when I have been doing this as long as Swartzy I still feel that way, and like Swartzy still feel the need to reinvent myself from time to time.
Matt
I've been watching this discussion for a while and figured it was time to jump in...
I, too, love my last set the most. I always do. My theory is that every session gives me just a bit more experience (obviously) but also the opportunity to think outside just a little bit more than I did in the one before it.
I look back at some of my work, even as recent as 3 months ago and while I do *like* it, I don't love it near as much as pictures I shot just 2 weeks ago.
And the comment a few pages ago about drooling over jeffreaux2's work... I second'ed a wedding with him and suffered through the worst light in the bride's house... Jeff, of course, made it look super easy and his shots came out AMAZING, I *watched* him do and still can't figure out how he got those shots...
I do drool over some photog's here on this forum, but at the same time, it makes me stop and think how they set it up and how I can replicate the same shot. Of course, if I had the snow/mountains/lighthouses/beaches that half of you had, I might stand a fighting chance...
There is a NY wedding photographer that I follow quite a bit, and her photos are exceptional enough to bring a complete stranger to tears. Her blog used to make me feel defeated - but I've been following her for several years and when I think back, or look at posts from 2 years ago, her photos remind me alot of my own. So in the end, it's encouraging.
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It's VERY easy to get overwhelmed in an un-healthy way. I realized that this morning as I was checking my Twitter feed. I'm following 100% photographers, industry news and that kinda stuff. So I get bombarded with tweets like "Business is great in 2010!" ...and... "Booked another wedding today, consulting with five more brides this week!" ...or... "come to my workshop! I'll teach you how to make tons of money or take stunning photos, even if you're a total newbie!" ...or... "click here to learn how to photoshop your crappy images so they look great, or how to pose a subject in 3 easy steps, or the 10 tips for getting into business..."
And so on and so forth. This morning I had enough. I'll never out-book photographer X. I'll never out-shoot photographer Y. And I just don't need photographer Z telling me that the YEARS of busting my ass at photography were a waste because they've got 10 easy steps for newbies to surpass my artistic skill or business success in just a few months.
My point is, if you're getting past the point of "man, I have a looong ways to go" and you're getting to the point of real depression / jealousy, ...it's time to throttle back on your daily dose of competition.
It's great to admire other photographers work, and it's healthy if you realize how much better you can get. But it's extremely un-healthy if you go down certain paths too. And especially in this phase of "social networking rocks!" ...it's all too easy to overload on competitive spirit.
Feeling driven to do better next time is good. Feeling so down that you wanna call it quits and give away your camera is NOT good...
Just thought I'd point that out!
=Matt=
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Also, I hate all those tweets you mention about! It's great others are getting awesome business! But I like real people with real minds, not just blatant marketing.
It is because those brides will do almost anything to get the best photogs. If they are willing to pay that price they are also more inclined to pay much much much more attention to their health and general appearance. It's just a matter of fact. and the photographers know it. So they capitalize on it and base much of their work on those.
www.tednghiem.com
True... to a point. I just booked a wedding this weekend (and have 25 more consultations this week... just kidding! that was a joke... don't virtually karate chop me!) where the bride is not one of those perfect barbie girly girl gals... and my prices are higher than they have ever been. But it is also true that weddings where the couple is willing to pay more for photography.. chances are they paid more for everything else too, including boob jobs, tanning and hairdos.
KARATE VIRTUAL CHOP!! Austin Powers style!
www.tednghiem.com
I was looking at Aston Martin DB7s...
www.tednghiem.com
By the same token, I try to keep it in perspective - I know I have limitations and I'll never be as good as many others here and elsewhere. I try to measure my abilities, improvements, etc against where I was this time last year rather than against others. If I'm better than I was, well that's (usually) good enough for me. It's all about the journey rather than the destination (or so I like to try to keep in mind).
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I'm pretty much a newb, right? But when I look at other photographers and I admire their photos, I don't think to myself, "Man, I have a looooooooooong ways to go." No. I think to myself, "I will get there." That's always my mindset. Even when I'm beset with negative thoughts and insecurities, this little phrase squiggles it's way into my subconscious and I feel better. I will get there.
Because I do still have a ways to go. But my goals are clear and bulleted, and if I have to measure myself against other photographers I know I'll *never* get to my own goals lol.
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This is a great thread, and I particularly love the quotes below:
Amen to that. I'm always comparing my work to others, I truly believe that because of Dgrin and the ability to do just that, that it makes me a better photographer year after year.
My favorite thing each year is to compare versus the previous year and see just how much I've improved. Anytime you think you're peaking, just bite your tongue and wait until the following year and blow yourself away all over again with what you didn't realize you could do!
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My slight inversion of this question is, do you ever blow yourself away? I don't mean extreme hubris or thinking you're just the greatest photog ever and all others should bow before your greatness, but do you ever find yourself looking at something you've created and inspiring yourself? My two favorite photos I've (ever) taken are of my daughter picking flowers (weeds actually, but hey, she was just barely 2
So anyway, we must all like what we're doing, or we wouldn't keep doing it, but do you ever have moments like this, when you maybe just can't believe that you actually created what you're looking at? Or does that only happen to me because I'm such a neophyte?
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Good question. Yes, I genuinely enjoy looking at my photos. I guess it makes sense, because they're composed and processed to please my eye, but I'm occasionally really impressed.
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Not exactly "blow myself away", but I certainly take pride in certain images, especially those where I know that it was actual skill/technique and active decisions on my part that made the shot work rather than only luck and a tailwind to have pushed the shutter at the right time by chance. I have a few where I knew HOW to set it up for success before I started (ie right lens choices, right location choices, right framing choices, right lighting choices, right exposure choices), and could therefore take advantage of the bullseye moments that were presented to me once things got going, and actually felt in command of what I captured; I'm genuinely proud of those pictures.
For me the hard part is doing that consistently - the technique part of my brain still isn't "automatic" enough yet and I get some kind of weird right brain/left brain inconsistency going on in the heat of the moment. Improving, yes, but it's still where I feel I fail. Sometimes I want to kick myself afterward for forgetting about something I KNOW how to do... and simply didn't incorporate at the time because the artistic side of my brain was so busy seeing things and posing and interacting and etc etc that I forgot something stupidly basic. So when I see a decent shot where I NAILED it and know how/why I nailed it and that it was something I did rather than just getting lucky, I do feel quite pleased with myself.
But then I look at the work of bloomphotog, or heatherfeather, or agnieszka, or swartzy or {insert name of any of the many awesome 'togs in here and elsewhere} and know how far I have to go and... we start the topic all over again
I always look at the work of others in awe. There was a shot posted here recently of a couple on the dance floor. available light only from an overhead spot. Unbelievable. And the poster was asking if anyone liked it.
On the other hand, i see some adds that tout the photog as being the best ever and wonder who would pay for that stuff.
GaryB
“The single most important component of a camera is the twelve inches behind it!” - Ansel Adams
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After looking back I realized that half of them were from my most recent wedding. A wedding where I didn't even look at the pictures for a couple of days for fear that there was a lot of junk. Absolutely pushed to the edge of my frazeledness, but low and behold it is (in my mind) my best work yet. That "auto-mode" that Diva speaks of is surfacing for me.
It seems that many photogs put too much into the technical aspects or not enough. Middle ground seems hard to find in that respect. Getting to where the technical stuff comes easy will allow you, the photog to really create from within. Not to say that technical perfection is mandatory, but competency is.
So why do I love my last set most? Is it because these images are newest to me or because I am improving with each set? I don't know, but I think comparing to others will show you where you need to be and then comparing to yourself will ultimately show you how to get there. I've personally got a long way to go and in truth, I hope than when I have been doing this as long as Swartzy I still feel that way, and like Swartzy still feel the need to reinvent myself from time to time.
Matt
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John. Thanks for those two climbing photogs. A quick look through the galleries was pretty cool. I was reminded of an interview I read with Corey Rich (www.coreyrich.com). In it, he talked about the time spent thinking about what shots he wanted and the effort taken to position to get his shots. Amazing line of work for sure.
I've been watching this discussion for a while and figured it was time to jump in...
I, too, love my last set the most. I always do. My theory is that every session gives me just a bit more experience (obviously) but also the opportunity to think outside just a little bit more than I did in the one before it.
I look back at some of my work, even as recent as 3 months ago and while I do *like* it, I don't love it near as much as pictures I shot just 2 weeks ago.
And the comment a few pages ago about drooling over jeffreaux2's work... I second'ed a wedding with him and suffered through the worst light in the bride's house... Jeff, of course, made it look super easy and his shots came out AMAZING, I *watched* him do and still can't figure out how he got those shots...
I do drool over some photog's here on this forum, but at the same time, it makes me stop and think how they set it up and how I can replicate the same shot. Of course, if I had the snow/mountains/lighthouses/beaches that half of you had, I might stand a fighting chance...
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