I'm also a little uncomfortable with splitting the forum... at this point, I visit the Street forum about once a month. There's no good reason for not going over there more often, I guess it just never got incorporated into my routine... and I wouldn't be surprised if I'm not the only one.
Also, since the street forum was created, traffic here seems to have slowed (for obvious reasons), and it seems like fewer comments are being made on shots. I don't know how, but I feel like finding a way to encourage commenting would really help things. So, in suggesting that, I'm thinking about why I may or may not choose to comment.
A - if there are already a full page of comments, I usually don't have much to add, so I don't
B - if the images posted just don't do it for me and don't seem to have that much potential... "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" kicks in and I stay quiet. However, if it's been a few days, they've asked for C&C and still no one has posted any comments, I try to give it a go.
C - changeable environmental things - my mood, other things that are going on around me, etc.
So maybe something for me to to work on for me would be to find a way to get myself to comment right away on stuff that doesn't get me excited but has been posted for C&C. It's just the right thing to do, so time to suck it up and do it. Nicely.
I do feel that there is some kind of disparity between the "hey I just got a camera and this is a picture of my friend/sister/kid/roommate" folks and the "I took this shot the other day in manual mode while taking into consideration the lighting, composition, DOF, etc., etc." folks (which, for the record, could be pro or non-pro, natural light or strobist, child or adult subject... all getting back to Ivar's issue of how one would ever split the forum in two). Whether anything should be done with that disparity, I don't know.
I do really enjoy Angie's weekly discussion threads in the wedding forum. Sometimes they continue on for a couple weeks and end up being several pages long, but every now and again there is one that doesn't get much traction, which is fine. The appeal the thread has depends on who's reading it, which can change at any given time in a public space like this. I think it's worth giving them a try. It might help people post their opinions/thoughts/methods on the topic and get them in the mood for posting - hopefully leading to some more comments.
Just for the record, there are a few people here (and in Weddings) that comment regularly, and you guys are awesome. You and Ivar keep this place alive. I really feel that without commenting/C&C happening, the forum would not be effective and people wouldn't post. So keep it up you guys! You're the reason this place is successful
To the rest of you folks reading this... go comment on something after you're done reading this thread and spread the love!
A good running time...really...would be....forever. Seriously.
Yeah, bad choice of words on my side; The conversations/discussions would stay up indefinitely of course, and will be listed in a sticky of something for easy reference.
What I meant is how often should a new discussion be started? every week? or when a discussion dies down a bit? I guess we can have more than one discussion being active at one time, I just don't want to sticky 10370912731 posts at the same time.
As for areas of improvement - I really like the idea of "article" threads - discussing technique, etc. I also really like the idea of trying to incorporate the "assignments" thing somehow. I've participated in some of Nik's assignments - and learned a lot. But, the question is always - "who?" We have a limited number of "pros" around here - and they already give a lot - plus we can forget that they have lives outside of grin. So - I don't know how to answer that one.
Anyway. I don't know that I've helped - more rambled...
I life outside of dgrin? really? what's that like?
You've helped, for sure we could even try, somehow to combine the 'assignments' into the 'articles', so to speak. I need to think about how that would work for a bit, though, and it would need to be done in such a way that it would be possible for (nearly) everyone to participate.
You're on the total right track with doing an assessment. Problem is, you don't have very many folks participating in the assessment.1. Consider doing a pole, where registered users can vote anonymously: limited by the options to vote for. Perhaps even some sort of regular weekly or Monthly pole, so that the organism can morph.
I really don't want to do a poll, because that will limit the choices to whatever I come up with. I'm only one person with only one view, and I really want input/suggestions.views from others here. I know I'll be the one implementing it, but the ideas don't have to be solely mine, i think.
As mentioned in my initial post, people are free to contact me by PM, and I will not make their names public in any way if they prefer
2. Along with the pole, and as you are attempting to do here, See if you can figure a way to get non-regular posters to contribute to your query. I have no idea how!
Yeah, I'd love for a lot more people to contribute...
4. My personal contribution: Model me this. I like the idea of having a separate space devoted to using a model for a given shooting environment and posting those for critique. I like this idea because it separates the family photo album stuff from the Purposely Modeled Shoot.
as a nOOb, don't know how long i can use this since i've been here from more than a year, here's a few comments...
1. i really enjoy the People forum because of the diversity and the amount of traffic. Separating might affect the amount of views or comments, since more views = more comments. There's always a new posts to view, so it's not boring.
2. If you decide to create separate forum, Pro vs. non-pro, i don't think that'll work. How 'bout natural light people and strobist people.
pro/nopro is still a thing I'm thinking about since it has been suggested, but at this time I'm thinking it will do more harm than good... but who knows. The (flash)light may come to me.
I'm also a little uncomfortable with splitting the forum... at this point, I visit the Street forum about once a month. There's no good reason for not going over there more often, I guess it just never got incorporated into my routine... and I wouldn't be surprised if I'm not the only one.
Also, since the street forum was created, traffic here seems to have slowed (for obvious reasons), and it seems like fewer comments are being made on shots. I don't know how, but I feel like finding a way to encourage commenting would really help things. So, in suggesting that, I'm thinking about why I may or may not choose to comment.
A - if there are already a full page of comments, I usually don't have much to add, so I don't
B - if the images posted just don't do it for me and don't seem to have that much potential... "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" kicks in and I stay quiet. However, if it's been a few days, they've asked for C&C and still no one has posted any comments, I try to give it a go.
C - changeable environmental things - my mood, other things that are going on around me, etc.
So maybe something for me to to work on for me would be to find a way to get myself to comment right away on stuff that doesn't get me excited but has been posted for C&C. It's just the right thing to do, so time to suck it up and do it. Nicely.
i wasn't sure If I should bring this up, but I've had a period that I commented on *all* threads, and for a period now that I've *not* commented on pretty much all threads; (I still read *all* posts, btw.) I wanted to see what the impact was, if any. It feels to me like once commenting has started, more comments will follow. Sometimes the comment itself gets commented; People agree or disagree, it is an opening for more discussions/suggestions it seems.
As with most forums, it does also seem to be a 'give and take' thing most of the time. If you comment on other people's posts, others are more likely to comment on your posts.
I do feel that there is some kind of disparity between the "hey I just got a camera and this is a picture of my friend/sister/kid/roommate" folks and the "I took this shot the other day in manual mode while taking into consideration the lighting, composition, DOF, etc., etc." folks (which, for the record, could be pro or non-pro, natural light or strobist, child or adult subject... all getting back to Ivar's issue of how one would ever split the forum in two). Whether anything should be done with that disparity, I don't know.
I do really enjoy Angie's weekly discussion threads in the wedding forum. Sometimes they continue on for a couple weeks and end up being several pages long, but every now and again there is one that doesn't get much traction, which is fine. The appeal the thread has depends on who's reading it, which can change at any given time in a public space like this. I think it's worth giving them a try. It might help people post their opinions/thoughts/methods on the topic and get them in the mood for posting - hopefully leading to some more comments.
I think it is okay for some discussions to die down quickly, and others to spark more interest/replies. If a discussion is not picked up by the forum-members, no problem, move on to the next one I think.
Seems like the 'discussions' are something that is a relatively popular request; It is something that is relatively easy to implement so I think we should at least give that a try. I'll think about the format a bit, and then post about it, asking for feedback on it.
There seems to be a group that is in favor of 'splitting' the forum and one that seems against. Personally I'm neither really as long as I think the forum and we as members all will benefit from whatever happens.
Questions I'd like to know more on:
Are the "pros" lacking some sort of challenge (to improve)?
Do you have suggestions on the 'discussions'?
The old questions in my initial post remain, also; If you have any thing (also something different or seemingly very small, or something that has not been mentioned before!!!!) that you feel will improve this forum, I'd love to hear it
Issue
One of the issues for many of the pros is that the forums are accessible to the public. If you make a living as a pro, you might not want to have images critiqued openly because you can dilute you on line presence.
Id rather NOT split "people" into smaller pieces...for some of the very reasons Ivar brought up....but also because it will limit traffic. I was a member on photographycorner forums and it is split up (or was) much like the suggestions, but it slowed traffic, and discouraged posting to some degree.
A monthly discussion on a certain topic would be awesome...and empowering to newbs.....especially with a sticky where they could all be found.
But having everything together can limit traffic as well. I haven't made it through the rest of the thread yet, but I have to reply to this before I go on.
On Photography On The Net, there was always a huge divide in their people sections. POTN has a dedicated Glamour/Nude forum that you have to have at least 500 post on the forum to enter or consent from one of the moderators.
The problem is, a lot of people that do model shots don't want to be mixed in with the nudes, so the modeling photos were going into the people section along with the standard snapshots of peoples families. This created havoc as all of the people shooting models and more mature stuff (say swimsuit shots and more risque but not nude photos) would end up in people with the people shooting families complaining that that sort of material should not be in the people forum and should be in the glamour/nude forum. In turn, the people posting more mature photography (be it in subject or skill) were always complaining about having to wade through the snapshots of people's kids and camping trips and just general family photos.
They were eventually broken up into "People" and "Family & Kids". This has solved most all the problems. Now of course if you're taking photos of kids who are modeling, you may think that it would be confusing, but general faith in humanity not being retarded has prevailed and people have generally chosen to put them in the correct section.
I know it's really hard to split forums like this where they can fit hand in hand and essentially you are splitting by skill level; just take a sample of 10 random threads from each and you'll see.
But if users are continued to have to post everything together, there may be some people that want to post pictures of their family but are reluctant to do so in a forum next to scantily clad models and some people that want to post glamour shots but don't want to bother lumping them in with all the snapshots of people's kids.
On a scale of 1 to 10, my awesomeness goes all the way to 11.
Late to the party, here, but I've been so busy that's pretty much true of everything in the last two weeks :oogle
I don't like the idea of a pro/nonpro split, as I think it will immediately draw lines which are intimidating, and complicated. Even defining that is going to open up an unnecessary can of worms, really. Is the amateur shooting for money pro or non pro? Is the pro taking pictures of his cousin's newborn? Etc etc. Just too many potential hairs to split.
If a split is truly desired (and, reading this thread, I'm not sure it is), what about Formal vs informal?
I LOVE the idea of stickied, monthly (or however often) discussion threads a la Wedding Forum. That's something I Find very interesting to read, even though - since I don't shoot weddings - I have nothing to contribute.
I've certainly noticed that the people forum ebbs and flows in terms of activity. Sometimes you can post and it'll sit on the front page for days. Other times, it's scrolled down in a couple of hours. This part of the winter typically seems pretty slow, unless a bunch of folks get snowed up and start doing self portraits, like we all did last year!
In general, Ivar, I'd say that this forum is a very nice place to hang out. I've had SO MUCH HELP from people, especially with this recent marathon of shots I've been putting together. I'm so grateful. And as soon as my workload starts to ease a little, I can return to posting in response to others more, as I have in the past. I've simply been so short of time that I've had to "post and run" as it were!
Sorry, late for the game. As you might have noticed, I've been a little less active lately: my new job is a total proof of the (Russian?) saying "the job takes all the time allotted for it, and then some".
Anyways.. Here are my random thoughts on the topic...
Splitting is good. It helps similarly oriented/minded people find each other's work easier and thus stay on top of what's going on in "their" world. Help is typically more constructive, since the "locals" do specialize in this particular niche and usually know what they are talking about.
At the same time, splitting is bad. We lose the "broad view", we tend to stick to our "shell" sub-forums and never look outside. At least talking about myself...
The biggest reason I do like current splitting is that I know one thing - there are no pets/kids in the GoFigure And I do believe Pets/Kids do deserve their own niche since, just like Weddings, it's a very specific type of images and techinques. And I know I would have at least one extra vote on this;-) - for no other reason that I would never want to visit it.
Apart from that I think the further subdivision would be an overkill. I've seen forums that tried to address every possible niche with their own subforums - the end was rather sad. Nobody knew where to post what, most of the subforums eded up dead since there was too few regulars for it to survive, off topics happened and the was no way to fix them: imagine you have "Studio portrait", "Outdoor portrait", "Indoor portrait", "Flash-assisted portrait", "Natural light portrait". So, where should poor me post flash-assisted outdoor sunset portrait?
Bottom line:
Leave GF as is due to its "mature" content requirements
Add "Pets and Kids" - this is quite a definitive arrangement
Weddings is not even a part of anymore People - well - let it be, it's also a very specific niche
And keep the rest of the People as one wonderful mix
If the cost of adding a forum is high might there either be a tagging (in the subject) or perhaps dgrin could support a tagging in the thread. One way to slice the pie is POSED/UNPOSED. Then it isn't about how many lights, natural, indoor/outdoor but it carries the weight that you are wanting a 'professional' look to the outcome. Or perhaps it is PLANNED/unplanned to cover jumps, or candids that are taken for specific purpose and desired outcome (such as pro shots from a reception or the like). Whatever the tag, could we keep the lower overhead of one forum but have some grass-roots tagging of "POSED: family of 4", "my little girl" ? If it were possible to tag the thread then there could be a filter, but I don't see that as part of the dgrin search flow at this time.
There have been times that I wanted to be able to hide a thread (not here), but that is another option where folks can just tag threads as 'not interested' and then they won't clutter the inbox anymore. Not something you can do; don't know if its even possible given the platform and data management system.
Some discussion topics? First steps in moving from 'family friend w/ camera' to 'paying position'; first steps with off-camera flash. ETTL/iTTL vs Manual with flashes. Posing discussions -- groups/varied sizes [both dimensions]/etc.. Personally, I never did the strobist bootcamp projects, perhaps a group here might want to undertake some of those tasks and feedback in this community. Recent example: Diva's thread on mimicking natural light has been very helpful. At some level many of these discussions sort of have homes under the biz or technique areas so not sure if they belong here, or if they do because they have a narrower focus on people photography.
Love the boards and grateful for the feedback I do receive. Thanks for asking questions about improvement -- it is a hard nut to crack. If you know folks who have stopped posting, getting some feedback on why they stopped might also help.
consider this a "playing devil's advocate" post
not that it's up to me, but so far out of everyone's suggestions as to how to split up the board, if that were to happen, none of the suggestions seem to really address all of the types of photography that are currently in this forum... i agree that gofigure is its own forum for a reason, and the fact that i never have to see scantily clad ladies makes me pretty happy. the fact that street/PJ has it's own place to grow is great. i agree that i'm not always excited about family snapshots, but it's seems to me that it's just too hard to split out. but really, how many random family shots are actually posted in this forum? i don't really feel like i have to "wade through" snapshots to get to what i'm looking for; there's really only a handful in any given month... right? unless i'm wrong. i have a terrible memory
but as other's have suggested, how can you split out "kids" from "people"? for example maybe someone like adbsgicom or kidzmom or divamum or whoever is taking pictures of their kids for practice, to understand their camera, to try out new techniques, etc. we've all seen these folks learn and grow and turn into respectable photographers who know their technique and have opinions that we valeu. would that happen if they were sequestered in a kids/family forum and didn't visit a forum focused on professional-style photography? and what about the pros who focus on child/family photography? and what about the pros who focus on other stuff but happened to catch a really great candid of a child? s
and breaking out a pro forum... i totally understand why that would have value to some, but like divamum suggested, how do you define who is pro? am i pro? i just officially registered with the state and irs as a business, but my quality level is not the same as chatkat or heatherfeather's, but the hope is to get there someday... so where does that put someone like me, or someone like me two weeks ago before i registered as a business?
again, it's not up to me and honestly, i'll be fine with whatever happens because everyone here gives honest feedback and good contributions to the forums, and i value their opinions. as long as the people are still around, then that's what really matters to me.
and ivar... it looks like there aren't many small changes that we'd like to see, so that must mean that you're doing a good job!
To add another 2 cents... I am another of the lurker/viewer/non-commenter types. I look at many of the posts, and I appreciate when the experienced photogs give C&C. However, I very seldom feel that I have anything to contribute other than "I like it," etc, so I don't often comment. I don't have the know-how to offer tips, so I guess I just prefer to save the bandwidth.
As for splitting forums, I wouldn't mind a Kids & Pets type forum, but other than that, I think the set up here is pretty good. Most of my photos are of Kids & Pets, and having to go to "Other Cool Shots" for doggy shots just seems a little awkward to me. OTOH, that can lead to a distinction of "is this a snapshot of my kids or an artistic portrait," and therefore where does it go? On the whole, I'd say that the current split of fora is good. It's already on the verge of being a bit overwhelming, IMO.
I also like the idea of weekly/monthly/whatever discussion topics. I like to read some of the discussions on the Wedding forum, and think that's a good idea. I don't know how much I would personally contribute, but if a topic sparked my interest and I felt I had something worthwhile to add, I would.
I'm here b/c I am interested in many different things photographic, and hopefully as I "grow up" as a photographer, I will be adding more than just as a lurker.
Some really really good points have been brought to the table. I am not necessarily an advocate of "splitting" the forum further, especially pro vs. amature....as that would crimp participation. I would however like to see a way (whatever that is) to have a place that posters would place their better work. Ice cream on kid's faces and pictures of pets simply are not on the same scale as someone attempting lighting techniques w/headshots.
What should be encouraged is refined work (or the attempt at such). Having a place for that could possibly help put the focus on effort and learning. It's not just about studio lighting or any one technique. It comes down to (for me anyway) a shooter thinking about what they post and putting their best foot forward. All are welcome to participate in that forum and many will learn leaps and bounds just from reading....then when they are serious enough about it, post their shots and get honest feedback. As it stands now, one will post a really bad shot and everyone (just to be nice) will say...."Good Job".
Certainly we don't want to create an atmosphere of "Elitist" or discourage anyone but at the same time it would benefit all to have a bit more cohesive type image representation in the same forum.
Swartzy, sounds like a people-specific version of how the refinery is spec'ed. I joined just after the whipping post went away so I don't know how the two compared or why the change happened. I like that you called it 'best foot forward' since my best foot isn't anywhere near your best foot, and I'd like to have a place to get feedback on getting better and what I did wrong and how to do it right next time around.
I love the thought of the OP tagging the content of their thread... If there could be a dialogue box with pre chosen categories where you could click what category your people photo falls under when you create your "new thread"... It might be an easy fix to what we were wanting...
It would be cool is if they were "sortable" according to those carefully chosen categories.
So if I was looking for ideas for SR portraits they would all pop up without a lot of searching. And you could choose more than one when you create your thread since your thread could apply to multiple categories. That way you can see all the new content, or limit it to just what you want to focus on.
As to the Pro/Non pro split... I really do not like the idea of attempting to define the quality of a person's work... we are all on the ladder of learning. I hope my photos are more pro next year than they are this year. It sounds pompous to assume that you are a pro and others aren't... Besides, I learn stuff from the newbs threads all the time!
BTW, thanks so much, Ivar, for reading all of our posts and caring enough to make the forum better. That is a huge load! And I am so appreciative!
Alrighty. I just went through this entire thread and read every post. I'm really wishing I would have got on this closer to it's birth, but I just found it.
Having read everyone's ideas and thoughts, here is what I'm thinking.
I am normally a landscape/fine art type photographer, albeit not a great one, but all the while learning and trying to better my skills. However, I have recently been trying to learn as much as I can about lighting, posing, and portraiture photography. A lot of people, as noted, like to post their photos of their kids (or adult family members) in every day life, snapshots if you will. However sometimes those "snapshots" turn out to be an AMAZING photo, and should be treated as such. However many other people are actually setting up a photo, with a model (be in a kind, pet, adult), lighting, background, doing precision editing to make the photo the best it can be. I recently posted a thread in the "People" forum asking for help on my processing. As I have not had a lot of experience in PS and editing people (i.e. skin, teeth, eyes, etc...), the photos posted had people in it, but were concentrated on the editing of the photos, not the actual photo itself. Hindsight says that they possibly should have gone in the "technique" forum maybe? I dunno. However since my goal is the people, and learning portraiture photograph and editing, it went into people.
I believe that splitting of the forum in something in the manner of a POSED/UNPOSED type situation would be most beneficial. However, again, an UNPOSED photo can, and has been, most deserving of things that are considered "snap shots". I don't think a PRO/AMATEUR distinction would work well, as many people have noted, however I do think a splitting in the form of someone looking for serious critique on posing, lighting, composition, post, and overall technique versus the "I took a cute photo of my kid/dog/family doing something silly or interesting or what-have-you" would be great.
My biggest thing when I post images in a good, valued, knowledgable critique. I'm looking for honest information about not only what I did wrong (there's more of that) and what is good. Not only WHAT to improve...but the evermost important, HOW.
I think there are a few "PROS" that frequent this forum, and they are so helpful. Someone giving an honest critique about the samples posted, backed with what's wrong, why it's wrong, how to fix it, examples, etc..., PLUS what is good, why it's good, etc... are the most valuable aspect of this forum and why I post here. The issue I find is that, I usually just select the "New Stuff" button and go through a little bit looking for something interesting. I'll go through the "House of Canon" sub-forum, "Go-Figure" (as Nic is a genius with lighting and posing), and then be done. I need to start going through the "People" forum as a whole, specifically, rather than just everything that is new. One big issue for me is, being new and not really knowing what I'm doing, is when I do get critique (which is asked for and welcomed), is that a lot of it is negative (in the best way possible though), and it can get rather disheartening. I know I'm not great and what I'm trying to do, but I'm trying. Sometimes it's hard for me to look at GREAT photos because I'm not there, or even close to there. I begin to ask the question, should I even be doing this? Why am I doing this if I'm not producing good results? I think it can be rather daunting for people to post work that is not up to "PRO" quality I think, however we all have to start somewhere.
Wow...okay that was a bit more of a ramble than intended. I'll stop. I think some of that is useful...hopefully.
One of the issues for many of the pros is that the forums are accessible to the public. If you make a living as a pro, you might not want to have images critiqued openly because you can dilute you on line presence.
Dgrin is an online public forum, and that is not going to change. You can always use a name other than that of yourself or your business if you don't want people to find you
But having everything together can limit traffic as well. I haven't made it through the rest of the thread yet, but I have to reply to this before I go on.
On Photography On The Net, there was always a huge divide in their people sections. POTN has a dedicated Glamour/Nude forum that you have to have at least 500 post on the forum to enter or consent from one of the moderators.
The problem is, a lot of people that do model shots don't want to be mixed in with the nudes, so the modeling photos were going into the people section along with the standard snapshots of peoples families. This created havoc as all of the people shooting models and more mature stuff (say swimsuit shots and more risque but not nude photos) would end up in people with the people shooting families complaining that that sort of material should not be in the people forum and should be in the glamour/nude forum. In turn, the people posting more mature photography (be it in subject or skill) were always complaining about having to wade through the snapshots of people's kids and camping trips and just general family photos.
They were eventually broken up into "People" and "Family & Kids". This has solved most all the problems. Now of course if you're taking photos of kids who are modeling, you may think that it would be confusing, but general faith in humanity not being retarded has prevailed and people have generally chosen to put them in the correct section.
I know it's really hard to split forums like this where they can fit hand in hand and essentially you are splitting by skill level; just take a sample of 10 random threads from each and you'll see.
But if users are continued to have to post everything together, there may be some people that want to post pictures of their family but are reluctant to do so in a forum next to scantily clad models and some people that want to post glamour shots but don't want to bother lumping them in with all the snapshots of people's kids.
Nudes/mature stuff on Dgrin are going to stay 'on their own' in Go Figure, so at leasr we don't have that problem here. I still feel, like you, that splitting based on skill level is going to be trouble and a lot of work and confusion.
Late to the party, here, but I've been so busy that's pretty much true of everything in the last two weeks :oogle
I don't like the idea of a pro/nonpro split, as I think it will immediately draw lines which are intimidating, and complicated. Even defining that is going to open up an unnecessary can of worms, really. Is the amateur shooting for money pro or non pro? Is the pro taking pictures of his cousin's newborn? Etc etc. Just too many potential hairs to split.
If a split is truly desired (and, reading this thread, I'm not sure it is), what about Formal vs informal?
I LOVE the idea of stickied, monthly (or however often) discussion threads a la Wedding Forum. That's something I Find very interesting to read, even though - since I don't shoot weddings - I have nothing to contribute.
I've certainly noticed that the people forum ebbs and flows in terms of activity. Sometimes you can post and it'll sit on the front page for days. Other times, it's scrolled down in a couple of hours. This part of the winter typically seems pretty slow, unless a bunch of folks get snowed up and start doing self portraits, like we all did last year!
In general, Ivar, I'd say that this forum is a very nice place to hang out. I've had SO MUCH HELP from people, especially with this recent marathon of shots I've been putting together. I'm so grateful. And as soon as my workload starts to ease a little, I can return to posting in response to others more, as I have in the past. I've simply been so short of time that I've had to "post and run" as it were!
I think the discussion thing is going to be a go
I think you, I and the majority, except for a few, is in agreement that a pro/nopro split will probably not be the best option.
I'm still not 100% sure if a split is the best thing, tbh, but who knows.
BTW, so far most all of you have been speaking about 'splitting' the forum, as in "a" and "b". It's also possible to add 1 sub-forum for instance, like 'kids' or 'studio' or something, leaving the rest where it is
The biggest reason I do like current splitting is that I know one thing - there are no pets/kids in the GoFigure And I do believe Pets/Kids do deserve their own niche since, just like Weddings, it's a very specific type of images and techinques. And I know I would have at least one extra vote on this;-) - for no other reason that I would never want to visit it.
...
Bottom line:
Leave GF as is due to its "mature" content requirements
Add "Pets and Kids" - this is quite a definitive arrangement
Weddings is not even a part of anymore People - well - let it be, it's also a very specific niche
And keep the rest of the People as one wonderful mix
Dixi
Pets are not part of 'People' and as far as I'm concerned they never will be. Like I said before I know they can be part of the family, but they are not people; Also, People as it is is one of the largest forums on Dgrin already.
GF is going to stay as it is for sure; I don't see any reason to change that at this time.
Weddings is not part of 'People' anymore; I've got no direct 'powers' there I think it is doing good on its own, and I think Angie is doing an awesome job there.
One of the things that is currently floating around as *AN* idea, is maybe have a 'kids' subforum of some sort? I think that's what you are saying also.
If the cost of adding a forum is high might there either be a tagging (in the subject) or perhaps dgrin could support a tagging in the thread. One way to slice the pie is POSED/UNPOSED. Then it isn't about how many lights, natural, indoor/outdoor but it carries the weight that you are wanting a 'professional' look to the outcome. Or perhaps it is PLANNED/unplanned to cover jumps, or candids that are taken for specific purpose and desired outcome (such as pro shots from a reception or the like). Whatever the tag, could we keep the lower overhead of one forum but have some grass-roots tagging of "POSED: family of 4", "my little girl" ? If it were possible to tag the thread then there could be a filter, but I don't see that as part of the dgrin search flow at this time.
There have been times that I wanted to be able to hide a thread (not here), but that is another option where folks can just tag threads as 'not interested' and then they won't clutter the inbox anymore. Not something you can do; don't know if its even possible given the platform and data management system.
Some discussion topics? First steps in moving from 'family friend w/ camera' to 'paying position'; first steps with off-camera flash. ETTL/iTTL vs Manual with flashes. Posing discussions -- groups/varied sizes [both dimensions]/etc.. Personally, I never did the strobist bootcamp projects, perhaps a group here might want to undertake some of those tasks and feedback in this community. Recent example: Diva's thread on mimicking natural light has been very helpful. At some level many of these discussions sort of have homes under the biz or technique areas so not sure if they belong here, or if they do because they have a narrower focus on people photography.
Love the boards and grateful for the feedback I do receive. Thanks for asking questions about improvement -- it is a hard nut to crack. If you know folks who have stopped posting, getting some feedback on why they stopped might also help.
I like the idea of somehow 'tagging' a thread, so people know more about its contents before going in to the actual thread. Getting people to actually put keywords in the title is going to be .... well, I think everyone can imagine a bad word to put there.
We all know how much people love reading rules and guidelines We are looking at upgrading VB, I don't know how long that will take, and I don't know what additional features that will have to help us with this but who knows?
not that it's up to me, but so far out of everyone's suggestions as to how to split up the board, if that were to happen, none of the suggestions seem to really address all of the types of photography that are currently in this forum... i agree that gofigure is its own forum for a reason, and the fact that i never have to see scantily clad ladies makes me pretty happy. the fact that street/PJ has it's own place to grow is great. i agree that i'm not always excited about family snapshots, but it's seems to me that it's just too hard to split out. but really, how many random family shots are actually posted in this forum? i don't really feel like i have to "wade through" snapshots to get to what i'm looking for; there's really only a handful in any given month... right? unless i'm wrong. i have a terrible memory
but as other's have suggested, how can you split out "kids" from "people"?
...
and ivar... it looks like there aren't many small changes that we'd like to see, so that must mean that you're doing a good job!
Just posted that in reply to one of the other posts also, but we don't need to do any 'splitting' as in 'cutting in two'... we could add a sub-forum for a specific category of shots, and leave the rest as is. Same like Go Figure is a sub-forum now
Some really really good points have been brought to the table. I am not necessarily an advocate of "splitting" the forum further, especially pro vs. amature....as that would crimp participation. I would however like to see a way (whatever that is) to have a place that posters would place their better work. Ice cream on kid's faces and pictures of pets simply are not on the same scale as someone attempting lighting techniques w/headshots.
What should be encouraged is refined work (or the attempt at such). Having a place for that could possibly help put the focus on effort and learning. It's not just about studio lighting or any one technique. It comes down to (for me anyway) a shooter thinking about what they post and putting their best foot forward. All are welcome to participate in that forum and many will learn leaps and bounds just from reading....then when they are serious enough about it, post their shots and get honest feedback. As it stands now, one will post a really bad shot and everyone (just to be nice) will say...."Good Job".
Certainly we don't want to create an atmosphere of "Elitist" or discourage anyone but at the same time it would benefit all to have a bit more cohesive type image representation in the same forum.
I can definitely see what you want, Swartzy I'm also trying to to think of other ways we can accomplish something similar, besides having it in a separate (sub)forum, because I feel it could have some downsides as well, doing it like that. For now, you can always place it in the Refinery if you like.
I like that you called it 'best foot forward' since my best foot isn't anywhere near your best foot, and I'd like to have a place to get feedback on getting better and what I did wrong and how to do it right next time around.
I know it is a bit of a utopian thought, but I'd really like to get the commenting level in general up a bit, somehow
I love the thought of the OP tagging the content of their thread... If there could be a dialogue box with pre chosen categories where you could click what category your people photo falls under when you create your "new thread"... It might be an easy fix to what we were wanting...
It would be cool is if they were "sortable" according to those carefully chosen categories.
So if I was looking for ideas for SR portraits they would all pop up without a lot of searching. And you could choose more than one when you create your thread since your thread could apply to multiple categories. That way you can see all the new content, or limit it to just what you want to focus on.
As to the Pro/Non pro split... I really do not like the idea of attempting to define the quality of a person's work... we are all on the ladder of learning. I hope my photos are more pro next year than they are this year. It sounds pompous to assume that you are a pro and others aren't... Besides, I learn stuff from the newbs threads all the time!
yeah, I like the idea of tagging of some sort, so you can have one big 'pool' of threads, and select the ones that you want somehow. I'm afraid that the current version of VB is not going to allow that, and I'm not even sure about newer versions
BTW, thanks so much, Ivar, for reading all of our posts and caring enough to make the forum better. That is a huge load! And I am so appreciative!
You're welcome; This forum (Dgrin) and People in specific are very special and important to me, personally, also. I've learned so much about photography and more, even the job I had at SmugMug I got through Dgrin, really. So if I can do something to make it better, no problem
Alrighty. I just went through this entire thread and read every post. I'm really wishing I would have got on this closer to it's birth, but I just found it.
Having read everyone's ideas and thoughts, here is what I'm thinking.
I am normally a landscape/fine art type photographer, albeit not a great one, but all the while learning and trying to better my skills. However, I have recently been trying to learn as much as I can about lighting, posing, and portraiture photography. A lot of people, as noted, like to post their photos of their kids (or adult family members) in every day life, snapshots if you will. However sometimes those "snapshots" turn out to be an AMAZING photo, and should be treated as such. However many other people are actually setting up a photo, with a model (be in a kind, pet, adult), lighting, background, doing precision editing to make the photo the best it can be. I recently posted a thread in the "People" forum asking for help on my processing. As I have not had a lot of experience in PS and editing people (i.e. skin, teeth, eyes, etc...), the photos posted had people in it, but were concentrated on the editing of the photos, not the actual photo itself. Hindsight says that they possibly should have gone in the "technique" forum maybe? I dunno. However since my goal is the people, and learning portraiture photograph and editing, it went into people.
In general, post processing I would move to 'Technique', because in it is a forum specifically for that, and because of the quantity of posts there compared to here it may have a better chance to get (more) replies. However, if the 'technique' questions thread includes at least one shot and the questions is specific about a shot(s) I have no problem with it being here, either.
I believe that splitting of the forum in something in the manner of a POSED/UNPOSED type situation would be most beneficial. However, again, an UNPOSED photo can, and has been, most deserving of things that are considered "snap shots". I don't think a PRO/AMATEUR distinction would work well, as many people have noted, however I do think a splitting in the form of someone looking for serious critique on posing, lighting, composition, post, and overall technique versus the "I took a cute photo of my kid/dog/family doing something silly or interesting or what-have-you" would be great.
My biggest thing when I post images in a good, valued, knowledgable critique. I'm looking for honest information about not only what I did wrong (there's more of that) and what is good. Not only WHAT to improve...but the evermost important, HOW.
I think there are a few "PROS" that frequent this forum, and they are so helpful. Someone giving an honest critique about the samples posted, backed with what's wrong, why it's wrong, how to fix it, examples, etc..., PLUS what is good, why it's good, etc... are the most valuable aspect of this forum and why I post here. The issue I find is that, I usually just select the "New Stuff" button and go through a little bit looking for something interesting. I'll go through the "House of Canon" sub-forum, "Go-Figure" (as Nic is a genius with lighting and posing), and then be done. I need to start going through the "People" forum as a whole, specifically, rather than just everything that is new. One big issue for me is, being new and not really knowing what I'm doing, is when I do get critique (which is asked for and welcomed), is that a lot of it is negative (in the best way possible though), and it can get rather disheartening. I know I'm not great and what I'm trying to do, but I'm trying. Sometimes it's hard for me to look at GREAT photos because I'm not there, or even close to there. I begin to ask the question, should I even be doing this? Why am I doing this if I'm not producing good results? I think it can be rather daunting for people to post work that is not up to "PRO" quality I think, however we all have to start somewhere.
Wow...okay that was a bit more of a ramble than intended. I'll stop. I think some of that is useful...hopefully.
Giving "good" critiques is actually an art, almost. Someone may say something that is totally true, but because of the way it is written it may feel very negative. It sometimes is hard for the OP, but please try to keep in mind that 99% of the time it is not meant as negative as it may feel; Similar for other shots; When you see others that are 'great' in your mind, it doesn't mean that yours are bad. You may have room to improve, but that's different, and *everyone* has that.
Also, even if you are a 'beginner', that doesn't mean that you have no right to comment or dislike (things about) images that are 'pro', if you know what I mean
One of the things that is currently floating around as *AN* idea, is maybe have a 'kids' subforum of some sort? I think that's what you are saying also.
Pretty much..yeah. Especially because this would also eliminate 90% of the snapshots from the general area ...
I definitely see need for a "Family" forum - As mentioned earlier, that type of work holds its own dynamics and IMO, lumping it into one pot makes sense. And seeing as families like having shots of their pets, they should be included too (and I don't say that because I got a monkey on my back from my doggy port being moved - Just sayin' what I see).
Then if you do that, what about the seniour/teen shots??? They're no longer kids, really, and the results kinda celebrate as such. These shots are stand-alones IMO and really wouldn't feel right in a *Family* forum either.
Where would it end?
Attempting to 'class' (Pro vs. Am) images into seperate threads would be as futile as trying to get a river to flow uphill.... It just ain't gonna work (MO).
ANYTHING that promotes an open discussion is GOOD. It encourages growth and makes up a piece of the Community's Foundation. I'm all for it and feel that there isn't nearly enough, now..... I have purposely held back on replying to this thread, waiting to see some of the 'veterans' respond - Where are they all?
The respondents thus far, are all but a little, "spit in the bucket". If members like things "as is", should they not be stating so???
Everything I've stated here, results in me scratching my bald head. Like I said in opening; I dunno.
Comments
Also, since the street forum was created, traffic here seems to have slowed (for obvious reasons), and it seems like fewer comments are being made on shots. I don't know how, but I feel like finding a way to encourage commenting would really help things. So, in suggesting that, I'm thinking about why I may or may not choose to comment.
A - if there are already a full page of comments, I usually don't have much to add, so I don't
B - if the images posted just don't do it for me and don't seem to have that much potential... "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" kicks in and I stay quiet. However, if it's been a few days, they've asked for C&C and still no one has posted any comments, I try to give it a go.
C - changeable environmental things - my mood, other things that are going on around me, etc.
So maybe something for me to to work on for me would be to find a way to get myself to comment right away on stuff that doesn't get me excited but has been posted for C&C. It's just the right thing to do, so time to suck it up and do it. Nicely.
I do feel that there is some kind of disparity between the "hey I just got a camera and this is a picture of my friend/sister/kid/roommate" folks and the "I took this shot the other day in manual mode while taking into consideration the lighting, composition, DOF, etc., etc." folks (which, for the record, could be pro or non-pro, natural light or strobist, child or adult subject... all getting back to Ivar's issue of how one would ever split the forum in two). Whether anything should be done with that disparity, I don't know.
I do really enjoy Angie's weekly discussion threads in the wedding forum. Sometimes they continue on for a couple weeks and end up being several pages long, but every now and again there is one that doesn't get much traction, which is fine. The appeal the thread has depends on who's reading it, which can change at any given time in a public space like this. I think it's worth giving them a try. It might help people post their opinions/thoughts/methods on the topic and get them in the mood for posting - hopefully leading to some more comments.
Just for the record, there are a few people here (and in Weddings) that comment regularly, and you guys are awesome. You and Ivar keep this place alive. I really feel that without commenting/C&C happening, the forum would not be effective and people wouldn't post. So keep it up you guys! You're the reason this place is successful
To the rest of you folks reading this... go comment on something after you're done reading this thread and spread the love!
Spread the love! Go comment on something!
What I meant is how often should a new discussion be started? every week? or when a discussion dies down a bit? I guess we can have more than one discussion being active at one time, I just don't want to sticky 10370912731 posts at the same time.
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
You've helped, for sure
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
As mentioned in my initial post, people are free to contact me by PM, and I will not make their names public in any way if they prefer
Yeah, I'd love for a lot more people to contribute...
Thanks for the suggestions!
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
flash/noflash: thanks for the suggestion
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
As with most forums, it does also seem to be a 'give and take' thing most of the time. If you comment on other people's posts, others are more likely to comment on your posts.
I think it is okay for some discussions to die down quickly, and others to spark more interest/replies. If a discussion is not picked up by the forum-members, no problem, move on to the next one I think.
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
Seems like the 'discussions' are something that is a relatively popular request; It is something that is relatively easy to implement so I think we should at least give that a try. I'll think about the format a bit, and then post about it, asking for feedback on it.
There seems to be a group that is in favor of 'splitting' the forum and one that seems against. Personally I'm neither really as long as I think the forum and we as members all will benefit from whatever happens.
Questions I'd like to know more on:
Are the "pros" lacking some sort of challenge (to improve)?
Do you have suggestions on the 'discussions'?
The old questions in my initial post remain, also; If you have any thing (also something different or seemingly very small, or something that has not been mentioned before!!!!) that you feel will improve this forum, I'd love to hear it
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
One of the issues for many of the pros is that the forums are accessible to the public. If you make a living as a pro, you might not want to have images critiqued openly because you can dilute you on line presence.
Flash Frozen Photography, Inc.
http://flashfrozenphotography.com
But having everything together can limit traffic as well. I haven't made it through the rest of the thread yet, but I have to reply to this before I go on.
On Photography On The Net, there was always a huge divide in their people sections. POTN has a dedicated Glamour/Nude forum that you have to have at least 500 post on the forum to enter or consent from one of the moderators.
The problem is, a lot of people that do model shots don't want to be mixed in with the nudes, so the modeling photos were going into the people section along with the standard snapshots of peoples families. This created havoc as all of the people shooting models and more mature stuff (say swimsuit shots and more risque but not nude photos) would end up in people with the people shooting families complaining that that sort of material should not be in the people forum and should be in the glamour/nude forum. In turn, the people posting more mature photography (be it in subject or skill) were always complaining about having to wade through the snapshots of people's kids and camping trips and just general family photos.
They were eventually broken up into "People" and "Family & Kids". This has solved most all the problems. Now of course if you're taking photos of kids who are modeling, you may think that it would be confusing, but general faith in humanity not being retarded has prevailed and people have generally chosen to put them in the correct section.
I know it's really hard to split forums like this where they can fit hand in hand and essentially you are splitting by skill level; just take a sample of 10 random threads from each and you'll see.
But if users are continued to have to post everything together, there may be some people that want to post pictures of their family but are reluctant to do so in a forum next to scantily clad models and some people that want to post glamour shots but don't want to bother lumping them in with all the snapshots of people's kids.
I don't like the idea of a pro/nonpro split, as I think it will immediately draw lines which are intimidating, and complicated. Even defining that is going to open up an unnecessary can of worms, really. Is the amateur shooting for money pro or non pro? Is the pro taking pictures of his cousin's newborn? Etc etc. Just too many potential hairs to split.
If a split is truly desired (and, reading this thread, I'm not sure it is), what about Formal vs informal?
I LOVE the idea of stickied, monthly (or however often) discussion threads a la Wedding Forum. That's something I Find very interesting to read, even though - since I don't shoot weddings - I have nothing to contribute.
I've certainly noticed that the people forum ebbs and flows in terms of activity. Sometimes you can post and it'll sit on the front page for days. Other times, it's scrolled down in a couple of hours. This part of the winter typically seems pretty slow, unless a bunch of folks get snowed up and start doing self portraits, like we all did last year!
In general, Ivar, I'd say that this forum is a very nice place to hang out. I've had SO MUCH HELP from people, especially with this recent marathon of shots I've been putting together. I'm so grateful. And as soon as my workload starts to ease a little, I can return to posting in response to others more, as I have in the past. I've simply been so short of time that I've had to "post and run" as it were!
Anyways.. Here are my random thoughts on the topic...
Splitting is good. It helps similarly oriented/minded people find each other's work easier and thus stay on top of what's going on in "their" world. Help is typically more constructive, since the "locals" do specialize in this particular niche and usually know what they are talking about.
At the same time, splitting is bad. We lose the "broad view", we tend to stick to our "shell" sub-forums and never look outside. At least talking about myself...
The biggest reason I do like current splitting is that I know one thing - there are no pets/kids in the GoFigure
Apart from that I think the further subdivision would be an overkill. I've seen forums that tried to address every possible niche with their own subforums - the end was rather sad. Nobody knew where to post what, most of the subforums eded up dead since there was too few regulars for it to survive, off topics happened and the was no way to fix them: imagine you have "Studio portrait", "Outdoor portrait", "Indoor portrait", "Flash-assisted portrait", "Natural light portrait". So, where should poor me post flash-assisted outdoor sunset portrait?
Bottom line:
Leave GF as is due to its "mature" content requirements
Add "Pets and Kids" - this is quite a definitive arrangement
Weddings is not even a part of anymore People - well - let it be, it's also a very specific niche
And keep the rest of the People as one wonderful mix
Dixi
There have been times that I wanted to be able to hide a thread (not here), but that is another option where folks can just tag threads as 'not interested' and then they won't clutter the inbox anymore. Not something you can do; don't know if its even possible given the platform and data management system.
Some discussion topics? First steps in moving from 'family friend w/ camera' to 'paying position'; first steps with off-camera flash. ETTL/iTTL vs Manual with flashes. Posing discussions -- groups/varied sizes [both dimensions]/etc.. Personally, I never did the strobist bootcamp projects, perhaps a group here might want to undertake some of those tasks and feedback in this community. Recent example: Diva's thread on mimicking natural light has been very helpful. At some level many of these discussions sort of have homes under the biz or technique areas so not sure if they belong here, or if they do because they have a narrower focus on people photography.
Love the boards and grateful for the feedback I do receive. Thanks for asking questions about improvement -- it is a hard nut to crack. If you know folks who have stopped posting, getting some feedback on why they stopped might also help.
Who is wise? He who learns from everyone.
My SmugMug Site
not that it's up to me, but so far out of everyone's suggestions as to how to split up the board, if that were to happen, none of the suggestions seem to really address all of the types of photography that are currently in this forum... i agree that gofigure is its own forum for a reason, and the fact that i never have to see scantily clad ladies makes me pretty happy. the fact that street/PJ has it's own place to grow is great. i agree that i'm not always excited about family snapshots, but it's seems to me that it's just too hard to split out. but really, how many random family shots are actually posted in this forum? i don't really feel like i have to "wade through" snapshots to get to what i'm looking for; there's really only a handful in any given month... right? unless i'm wrong. i have a terrible memory
but as other's have suggested, how can you split out "kids" from "people"? for example maybe someone like adbsgicom or kidzmom or divamum or whoever is taking pictures of their kids for practice, to understand their camera, to try out new techniques, etc. we've all seen these folks learn and grow and turn into respectable photographers who know their technique and have opinions that we valeu. would that happen if they were sequestered in a kids/family forum and didn't visit a forum focused on professional-style photography? and what about the pros who focus on child/family photography? and what about the pros who focus on other stuff but happened to catch a really great candid of a child? s
and breaking out a pro forum... i totally understand why that would have value to some, but like divamum suggested, how do you define who is pro? am i pro? i just officially registered with the state and irs as a business, but my quality level is not the same as chatkat or heatherfeather's, but the hope is to get there someday... so where does that put someone like me, or someone like me two weeks ago before i registered as a business?
again, it's not up to me and honestly, i'll be fine with whatever happens because everyone here gives honest feedback and good contributions to the forums, and i value their opinions. as long as the people are still around, then that's what really matters to me.
and ivar... it looks like there aren't many small changes that we'd like to see, so that must mean that you're doing a good job!
Spread the love! Go comment on something!
As for splitting forums, I wouldn't mind a Kids & Pets type forum, but other than that, I think the set up here is pretty good. Most of my photos are of Kids & Pets, and having to go to "Other Cool Shots" for doggy shots just seems a little awkward to me. OTOH, that can lead to a distinction of "is this a snapshot of my kids or an artistic portrait," and therefore where does it go? On the whole, I'd say that the current split of fora is good. It's already on the verge of being a bit overwhelming, IMO.
I also like the idea of weekly/monthly/whatever discussion topics. I like to read some of the discussions on the Wedding forum, and think that's a good idea. I don't know how much I would personally contribute, but if a topic sparked my interest and I felt I had something worthwhile to add, I would.
I'm here b/c I am interested in many different things photographic, and hopefully as I "grow up" as a photographer, I will be adding more than just as a lurker.
My site 365 Project
What should be encouraged is refined work (or the attempt at such). Having a place for that could possibly help put the focus on effort and learning. It's not just about studio lighting or any one technique. It comes down to (for me anyway) a shooter thinking about what they post and putting their best foot forward. All are welcome to participate in that forum and many will learn leaps and bounds just from reading....then when they are serious enough about it, post their shots and get honest feedback. As it stands now, one will post a really bad shot and everyone (just to be nice) will say...."Good Job".
Certainly we don't want to create an atmosphere of "Elitist" or discourage anyone but at the same time it would benefit all to have a bit more cohesive type image representation in the same forum.
NAPP Member | Canon Shooter
Weddings/Portraits and anything else that catches my eye.
www.daveswartz.com
Model Mayhem site http://www.modelmayhem.com/686552
Who is wise? He who learns from everyone.
My SmugMug Site
I love the thought of the OP tagging the content of their thread... If there could be a dialogue box with pre chosen categories where you could click what category your people photo falls under when you create your "new thread"... It might be an easy fix to what we were wanting...
It would be cool is if they were "sortable" according to those carefully chosen categories.
So if I was looking for ideas for SR portraits they would all pop up without a lot of searching. And you could choose more than one when you create your thread since your thread could apply to multiple categories. That way you can see all the new content, or limit it to just what you want to focus on.
As to the Pro/Non pro split... I really do not like the idea of attempting to define the quality of a person's work... we are all on the ladder of learning. I hope my photos are more pro next year than they are this year. It sounds pompous to assume that you are a pro and others aren't... Besides, I learn stuff from the newbs threads all the time!
BTW, thanks so much, Ivar, for reading all of our posts and caring enough to make the forum better. That is a huge load! And I am so appreciative!
Having read everyone's ideas and thoughts, here is what I'm thinking.
I am normally a landscape/fine art type photographer, albeit not a great one, but all the while learning and trying to better my skills. However, I have recently been trying to learn as much as I can about lighting, posing, and portraiture photography. A lot of people, as noted, like to post their photos of their kids (or adult family members) in every day life, snapshots if you will. However sometimes those "snapshots" turn out to be an AMAZING photo, and should be treated as such. However many other people are actually setting up a photo, with a model (be in a kind, pet, adult), lighting, background, doing precision editing to make the photo the best it can be. I recently posted a thread in the "People" forum asking for help on my processing. As I have not had a lot of experience in PS and editing people (i.e. skin, teeth, eyes, etc...), the photos posted had people in it, but were concentrated on the editing of the photos, not the actual photo itself. Hindsight says that they possibly should have gone in the "technique" forum maybe? I dunno. However since my goal is the people, and learning portraiture photograph and editing, it went into people.
I believe that splitting of the forum in something in the manner of a POSED/UNPOSED type situation would be most beneficial. However, again, an UNPOSED photo can, and has been, most deserving of things that are considered "snap shots". I don't think a PRO/AMATEUR distinction would work well, as many people have noted, however I do think a splitting in the form of someone looking for serious critique on posing, lighting, composition, post, and overall technique versus the "I took a cute photo of my kid/dog/family doing something silly or interesting or what-have-you" would be great.
My biggest thing when I post images in a good, valued, knowledgable critique. I'm looking for honest information about not only what I did wrong (there's more of that) and what is good. Not only WHAT to improve...but the evermost important, HOW.
I think there are a few "PROS" that frequent this forum, and they are so helpful. Someone giving an honest critique about the samples posted, backed with what's wrong, why it's wrong, how to fix it, examples, etc..., PLUS what is good, why it's good, etc... are the most valuable aspect of this forum and why I post here. The issue I find is that, I usually just select the "New Stuff" button and go through a little bit looking for something interesting. I'll go through the "House of Canon" sub-forum, "Go-Figure" (as Nic is a genius with lighting and posing), and then be done. I need to start going through the "People" forum as a whole, specifically, rather than just everything that is new. One big issue for me is, being new and not really knowing what I'm doing, is when I do get critique (which is asked for and welcomed), is that a lot of it is negative (in the best way possible though), and it can get rather disheartening. I know I'm not great and what I'm trying to do, but I'm trying. Sometimes it's hard for me to look at GREAT photos because I'm not there, or even close to there. I begin to ask the question, should I even be doing this? Why am I doing this if I'm not producing good results? I think it can be rather daunting for people to post work that is not up to "PRO" quality I think, however we all have to start somewhere.
Wow...okay that was a bit more of a ramble than intended. I'll stop. I think some of that is useful...hopefully.
OneTwoFiftieth | Portland, Oregon | Modern Portraiture
My Equipment:
Bodies: Canon 50D, Canon EOS 1
Lenses: Canon 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105mm f/4L IS, Canon 50mm f/1.4, Canon 100mm f/2.8 Macro, Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8
Lighting: Canon 580EXII, Canon 420 EX, 12" Reflector, Pocket Wizard Plus II (3), AB800 (3), Large Softbox
Stability: Manfrotto 190CXPRO3 Tripod, Manfrotto 488RC4 Ball Head, Manfrotto 679B Monopod
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
I think you, I and the majority, except for a few, is in agreement that a pro/nopro split will probably not be the best option.
I'm still not 100% sure if a split is the best thing, tbh, but who knows.
BTW, so far most all of you have been speaking about 'splitting' the forum, as in "a" and "b". It's also possible to add 1 sub-forum for instance, like 'kids' or 'studio' or something, leaving the rest where it is
I'm glad to hear you see this as a nice place
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
GF is going to stay as it is for sure; I don't see any reason to change that at this time.
Weddings is not part of 'People' anymore; I've got no direct 'powers' there
One of the things that is currently floating around as *AN* idea, is maybe have a 'kids' subforum of some sort? I think that's what you are saying also.
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
We all know how much people love reading rules and guidelines
Thanks for the suggestions on the topics
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
And, thanks :curtsey
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
You're welcome; This forum (Dgrin) and People in specific are very special and important to me, personally, also. I've learned so much about photography and more, even the job I had at SmugMug I got through Dgrin, really. So if I can do something to make it better, no problem
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
Giving "good" critiques is actually an art, almost. Someone may say something that is totally true, but because of the way it is written it may feel very negative. It sometimes is hard for the OP, but please try to keep in mind that 99% of the time it is not meant as negative as it may feel; Similar for other shots; When you see others that are 'great' in your mind, it doesn't mean that yours are bad. You may have room to improve, but that's different, and *everyone* has that.
Also, even if you are a 'beginner', that doesn't mean that you have no right to comment or dislike (things about) images that are 'pro', if you know what I mean
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
I definitely see need for a "Family" forum - As mentioned earlier, that type of work holds its own dynamics and IMO, lumping it into one pot makes sense. And seeing as families like having shots of their pets, they should be included too (and I don't say that because I got a monkey on my back from my doggy port being moved - Just sayin' what I see).
Then if you do that, what about the seniour/teen shots??? They're no longer kids, really, and the results kinda celebrate as such. These shots are stand-alones IMO and really wouldn't feel right in a *Family* forum either.
Where would it end?
Attempting to 'class' (Pro vs. Am) images into seperate threads would be as futile as trying to get a river to flow uphill.... It just ain't gonna work (MO).
ANYTHING that promotes an open discussion is GOOD. It encourages growth and makes up a piece of the Community's Foundation. I'm all for it and feel that there isn't nearly enough, now..... I have purposely held back on replying to this thread, waiting to see some of the 'veterans' respond - Where are they all?
The respondents thus far, are all but a little, "spit in the bucket". If members like things "as is", should they not be stating so???
Everything I've stated here, results in me scratching my bald head. Like I said in opening; I dunno.
Good luck.