Ridiculous Pricing?
ImageX Photography
Registered Users Posts: 528 Major grins
I was just curious as to why so MANY photographers put a ridiculous price on their downloads? Do they do this because they KNOW that people can't afford that and they want to force them to buy prints only? I have seen some riculous pricing and clearly the photographer is NOT selling any images at that price. Some people charge as much as the cost of a new digital camera and their work is nothing special at all!!!! What is the whole point of that? Is it forcing prints on the customer? That really turns a customer off and then there is no sale at all. I personally like to make most of my images affordable so people will ACTUALLY buy them. Everyone is free to price their work as they wish but I was wondering why so many people like to price themselves out of a sale. Is it about prints or putting a false value on their work? :scratch
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This will provide me with real data and allow my to make a comment.
Sam
Specific sites.. including mine.... are irrelevant to the question. If you are an experienced photographer... then you likely know EXACTLY what I am talking about.
The reason for it is in case i should ever see a photo of mine somewhere it doesnt belong. I know what to ask for in court.
Basking in the shadows of yesterday's triumphs'.
... and that's a good reason... and I never thought of that. I thought it might be to force people to buy prints. If that was the case, I don't see why anyone would offer over priced downloads in the first place. Thanks for replying though. That makes sense and now I may go raise the price of my commercial downloads. lol
My understanding is the prices are high because most people are selling more than the actual download. They're selling the original large file PLUS the rights to reproduce as one sees fit. THAT is the part that I thought was the primary expense to photographers out there. People make their money off of prints so a lot of photogs put small versions of their pics online to stop people from illegally using them.
Just my thoughts
Hi! I'm Wally: website | blog | facebook | IG | scotchNsniff
Nikon addict. D610, Tok 11-16, Sig 24-35, Nik 24-70/70-200vr
Your right how silly of me. Information, facts, data, is irrelevant, and as a photographer I should be able know exactly what your saying. In fact I should know all these things without you even writing it.
Sam
Arrogance like that, especially to an experienced photographer such as Sam, won't get you very far.
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
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You BOTH are misreading my posts. It was a simple statement stating that he should know what I meant.... and I'm sure he did. The question was a general one and CLEARLY wasn't aimed at any specific site or photographer. Guys like davev and r3t1awr3yd got it just fine.... and didn't need to see mine or anyone elses photos. There was no arrogance and an experienced photographer would have known EXACTLY what I meant without trying to bring specific photos(namely mine) into it. It's no secret what the pricing is like and I just wanted to know why without it being turned into something else all together.... which Sam tried to do.
Some photos I can totally understand high prices but just an average regular pic? Wouldn't it be worth it to sell some of them for a much lower affordable price.... and then not really care what they do with it? Like say an average pic of some pretty trees. Wouldn't it be worth selling with the rights for something... instead of nothing? I understand the whole value/court thing a lot more than pricing yourself out of a sale.... even if the rights go with it. Some pics sure.... don't let them go cheap with the rights but just regular everyday photos? Or if the pic is of a specific person that no one will ever want but them. Why not price it so that they can actually afford it?
1) A "real" photographer with "average pics"??
2) A picture is really only as much as people are willing to pay for it. :cry
3) If someone is willing to pay a ridiculous amount for a picture why not sell it to them at a price that fits what they think the picture should cost?
4) Capitalism. eg: The pet rock. 'Nuff said.
EDIT:
You really need to read the mind your own business section of the site. It'll really enlighten you to some of the realizations that you need to have a photographer trying to make money. At first I was almost insulted by the idea of photography being "95% business and 5% skill" but the more you see people making money from "average" pictures, the more you start to understand that idea. I HIGHLY recommend you read up in there.
-Wally
Hi! I'm Wally: website | blog | facebook | IG | scotchNsniff
Nikon addict. D610, Tok 11-16, Sig 24-35, Nik 24-70/70-200vr
By average...I meant an average subject.
That's the problem, most people are NOT willing to pay a ridiculous amount for a photo..... so there is no sale.... and isn't that the point? To sell photos? I sell pics to motorcycle racers and the ONLY reason I am selling them..... is because they can afford them. I don't price myself out of sale. That's all I am getting at here. I could care less what they do with them after that. Sure, certain pics should be priced high but all of them? I think if many photographers made their photos affordable.... they would sell MUCH more and make more money instead of worrying so much about the rights. Sell it... let it go.... and then head to the bank!
That's why I am asking. To find out why it is the way it is.
"2) A picture is really only as much as people are willing to pay for it." Exactly!! So why price it way beyond what the average person thinks it is worth or frankly what they can afford? I'm not saying price them so low and cheapen your work. Just make it attainable for them!!!
Wouldn't be a better idea to price the commercial downloads high and make the personal downloads somewhat affordable? It just appears to me that most people want to sucker people into coming back to buy more prints over and over. If that's what it is.... then that's what it is.
This is what I am selling.... and people are buying ONLY because they can afford it. I would much rather sell than not sell. I just don't understand why most people don't feel the same as I do. I am just trying to understand.
How long have you been doing this?
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
Is there any particular reason why you don't believe your photos are worth what the other 4 guys are charging? How do you know you aren't leaving money at the table? Or do you think that if you price at half the price you'll get more than twice the volume?
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
I thought you pretty much already knew I just started?
It's not really a matter of what I think my photos are worth. It's a matter of what the customer will and can pay for them.... in the biggest recession of our lives. I have also been on the other side of the lens for years and I know what riders will and will not pay. We don't want lame prints either. It costs an arm and leg to race as it is and would rather have a set of tires instead of a pic or two.
My situation is a little different. The other photgraphers that are there are greedy outsiders and are only there to make money.... obviously. I am an active member in the club that I am shooting the races for. I am there to provide affordable images for the members. I talk to everyone and they all say the same thing. "The other guys charge way too much and can go get #$%@&#@". Sure, I could set my prices high and keep bringing them down until people start to buy them but I'm not about greed. I want to bring quality pics at affordable pricing to my fellow members. That's the service I am providing. Everyone already says my pics are better than the other guys and they are happy they can now afford to buy some pics of the events with reasonable prices. They weren't buying before I showed up. They were doing what they were forced to do. Settling for low res watermarked images.
It's not a matter of selling twice the volume at half price. It's a matter of either selling pics..... or NOT selling any pics.
I simply do not understand why anyone would price themselves out of a sale. I understand pricing high for the whole court thing and that's a good reason. I just think some people just worry too much about losing the copyright to an image. They are busy worrying while no one buys. Meanwhile, the next guy cuts an image loose and makes some money off of it. Who really cares about the copyright... especially if it's a pic of a specific person. It's not like you are gonna "leave money at the table" later... but if you did by chance... it's not gonna be much. By holding onto the copyrights and just selling a print or two every so often isn't going to net as much as just cutting it loose for a reasonable one time fee and move on. This all just applies to pics of specific people of course.
Don't get me wrong.... if people are getting hundreds of dollars for an image... more power to them! It just isn't gonna happen with what I'm doing.
Now comes the cost of actually running the business; insurance, rent, software, computers, biz cards etc. So that all has to be added on. It can add up.
If the customer tries to print the image and it doesn't look right, it is the photographer's fault (in the customer's mind). The photographer had no control over the printer used, the resolution of the image sent to the printer ... etc. If they sell a print there is a more contained loop where the photographer has more control and can make sure that the image is represented and printed well. I know that I have messed up a few prints and I have had to do reprints just because I did not configure things properly.
The question isn't a bad question, it is just a difficult one. Also the phrasing wasn't great as you did not explain the case study well.
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i really tried to stay away from replying to this thread.........I really did...............
What is an average subject........10 photographers lines up shooting anything will walk away with 10 different images.....that is not average................
A higher priced photo usually means that the photog actually knows what he/she is doing and also means they are not using lowend equipment...it also usually means they are established and people recognize their work....it may also mean they are there on assignment for a magazine.......YOU ON THE OTHER HAND ARE A SELF ADMITTED BEGINNER THAT IS DEVALUING THE WORK OF THE ESTABLISHED HARD WORKING PROS OUT THERE JUST BECAUSE IN YOUR EYES THE IMAGES ARE NOT WORTH WHAT IS BEING ASKED FOR THEM.....AND YES YOUR RACING BUDS ARE AGREEING WITH BECAUSE THEY NOW KNOW THEY CAN BUY FROM YOU ON THE CHEAP, WICH IN THE END WILL KILL YOUR BUSINESS ALSO WHEN YOU REALIZE HOW MUCH UNDERVALUED YOUR WORK IS BY YOU!!!
In some peoples eyes a beginner should not charge as much as some one that has been in business for many years....how ever that rank beginner should not price his stuff so low that it actually causes harm to his fellow photogs......it makes enemies and established Pros can find ways to keep you from getting access to shoot from good vantage points.......as stated a lot of pros have to PAY to be able to shoot at an event.........I have had to sit with event owners and go thru my books and cash box to show what was made (gross) by me for said event and then pay them cash for their cut for allowing me to shoot..........but when someone tried to undercut me with walmart pricing the next year I was begged to come back.......and when this happens the PRO is then in charge.......my payback percentage went way lower.........+ amenities ................Your pricing needs to be average as to what the whole community charges for the same work......by community I mean the REAL PROS.....you do not want them as enemies.....Accidents do happen.........if any of them know your selling dirt cheap they already know your equipment is not insured and it would not take much to put you out of business..............you want friends in the photog community not enemies......people who will help not try to destroy you.......................
Tou have a D300s.......but do not list lenses......what are you shooting these races with????? This might help answer why others prices are soo high as you say..........................
I just answered my own question.....they were shot with an 80-400 f4.5 to 5.6....... slow consumer grade lens........in the right hands can be a great lens.......in the right hands and also if it a superb copy.................
Hey, Art, that's funny. I didn't need a super expensive lens at all. Slow consumer lens or not..... these guys(same ones who are giving me money) are saying they are some of the best images they have seen from the track and we have had guys with HUGE $7000 Cannon lenses before. Guess what happened to that guy? He priced himself out of our events and he traveled across numerous states. No one did that to him or anyone else. They set prices that THEY thought their stuff was worth or for what they needed to get money back... and not for what people could afford. THAT is the whole point here. Why do people price themselves out of getting any sales at all????? You say I am devaluing my work yet I am the only making any money. Why not the big bad pro with godlike quality? Funny how that works. Does anyone not follow me here? You can't sell to people who can't afford your prices! If you want sales..... then I guess you better "devalue" your work or go home. Plain and simple.
You are also dead wrong about hurting my business for the future! I am establishing myself and people are liking it. I will soon raise prices..... but slowly. They may not like it BUT they aren't going anywhere else!
... and your comment about enemies and threats of breaking equipment is PURE GARBAGE!!! We don't need criminals around our club and if anyone tried something like that........ they would get beat down..... in a hurry. To tell you the truth..... I don't care one bit about those other guys who price fix. Isn't that illegal? Business is business!!! They weren't making money before me so I took their mistake and fixed it and I'm making money! Who said anything about dirt cheap either? I'm in business to make money of of my images. I can't make money if I can't sell images because I priced them wrong. Why is that so hard to understand? Maybe some people need to come down to reality and understand that people just don't have the money to pay for your self valued work. If you want to sell... then price things so people can buy your stuff. It's soooooooooooo simple.
Also, the track ISN'T a photography community!!! We race motorcycles! Do you think that someone from within the club should sell images that no one can afford because that's what the outsider photographers do? Really, is that what one should do just because the others have a camera too and also like to take pictures? That's a bunch of crap and isn't a real proposition. Our club is about the members and you are saying to stick with greedy outsiders who can't sell images because their prices are too high.
If the "pros" are doing their job, their pics should put a "beginner's" to shame. It's not about shame though. You're still writing as if this is a competition and not a business. HOPEFULLY the guys out there shooting for their business are shooting amazing pics but everyone has off days. HOPEFULLY the guys out there shooting are taking into account gas, car mileage, maintenance, gear insurance, gear depreciation, etc, etc. There's a lot more to going out there and shooting to make money than just going out to shoot for fun.
BTW, I shot the above pictures for free. I even turned down a free lunch. (I really bartered in my mind for a chance to watch a Trackday before I signed up for my own lol). Does it make me stupid to shoot tack sharp and beautiful pictures of a friend's bike for free? Yes lol. Could I have charged a lot? Sure. Would he have paid a couple bones for the set of pics I did? No doubt. That wasn't my goal though. I'm just saying, you've got to either think "hobby" or "occupation". Not both.
EDIT: I know you keep saying they priced themselves out of a sale but they're only still doing it because SOMEONE is buying their pictures lol.
EDIT 2: "If you want to sell... then price things so people can buy your stuff. It's soooooooooooo simple." What if you only want to sell to people who have lots of money and not just every joe schmo? How about we go with "If you want to sell, price things APPROPRIATELY".
Hi! I'm Wally: website | blog | facebook | IG | scotchNsniff
Nikon addict. D610, Tok 11-16, Sig 24-35, Nik 24-70/70-200vr
Nice pics. Be careful though!!! Guard your equipment before some pro photographers come and break it on you! lol I guess my situation is a little different and I even mentioned that in an early post. I guess no one read that and I am suppose to side with some outsiders. A couple of the guys do pretty good work BUT they still can't sell images because no one can afford them. If they want to make money.... then they have to come down to earth. it's simple and that's my whole point. Some money is better than no money..... no matter what take you spin on it. As a racer, I can produce better angles than the other guys and I know what the guys want. My stuff will be better and I could probably get MORE money for it than the other guys..... BUT not if anyone can't afford it. That's the whole point and now this has been spun into some whole photography ethics thing. All I know is they aren't making money and I am! You would think that someone who does all that work and puts in the time would do what they have to do to get paid!!!
"If the "pros" are doing their job, their pics should put a "beginner's" to shame."
I just want to know why people price themselves out of a sale. I am irrelevant in the matter. It got turned into an ethics thing instead of my question being answered. It still hasn't either.
Edit: No, they aren't selling. Not downloads... only prints. They are just still trying to get people to pay that. I know everyone and no one is buying. Only laughing and cussing their prices. That's no one's fault but their own.
In the end, it's about people pricing their widget at whatever they think their widget is worth. You say they're pricing themselves out of a sale but again, why would they still be there unless somebody was paying what they think their widget (picture in this case) is worth.
No one is referring to ethics when they talk about the actual costs that go into shooting an event but the people who've been doing it a while know what their time is worth.
Scenario:
Guy A sells one picture at $10,000.
Guy B sells ten thousand pictures at $1.
Do they make the same amount of money?
Who's the better photographer?
Who's picture is worth more?
Hi! I'm Wally: website | blog | facebook | IG | scotchNsniff
Nikon addict. D610, Tok 11-16, Sig 24-35, Nik 24-70/70-200vr
Pleas make up your mind: are people buying or not? Are they buying prints? Is your sole problem the price of their digital files?
Seriously, I think you need to stop ranting so much about other people's business model.
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
ack, why do I bother trying to explain that it costs money to run a business and that those costs have to be figured into what the product pricing is?
www.fastcatstudio.com
www.fastcatstudio.net - blog
It should probably be required reading for anyone even THINKING about becoming a pro photographer - or, for that matter, a hobbyist selling a few photos. In it he suggests things that should be taken into consideration when figuring out at what price to sell your products and services.
Whether you are selling photo prints, oil paintings, digital files or widgets, the principles still apply. Each person's figures will be different depending on the circumstances - but again, the principles apply.
I went through the exercises and determined that I need to charge $75 an hour, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week to make my business modestly profitable. Now, to some people, that sounds like a gigantic hourly wage. However, my actual pay cheque that I can spend on myself, my living expenses etc., AFTER I have paid all of my business expenses, is substantially less - more in the $15 - $20 an hour range. Minimum wage where I live will be $10 per hour next January and my take-home isn't that much higher, is it? Yet, if some look at the prices on my prints and services, they might think they were high.
Just sayin' - there are many sides to any issue. But if you want to survive and sell photos, even at a very modest profit per unit, (and if you don't want to make ANY profit, you should be a registered charity), pricing should reflect all relevant costs including that modest profit.
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Sam
Seriously, try reading the very first sentence in the thread.
Seriously, why do you even care that they price their downloads so high? As you said, they are selling prints, they are making money. I'm still really, really curious how "high" the asking price is for these other photographer's files versus the asking price of their prints.
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
I understand the guy A guy B thing. The whole entire point was why do people price themselves out of a digital download sale. Is it to sell prints only? That's what I was trying to find out. It had nothing to do with ethics or recouping expenses..... since that doesn't happen on their downloads because no one buys them. They are forced to buy prints only or use low res watermarked images.
People need to slow down and absorb what the post is about and not rush to turn into something else all together. Thanks to those who replied to the subject at hand and for not turning into something else.
$150-$200 for ONE personal digital download
.... and I don't care what their prices are! I am just wondering why they price themselves out of a digital download sale. Geez!!!
Thanks! You basically answered my question. Prints! That's what I thought. I personally think that's kind of shady. Withholding digital files to force people to buy prints. They can do what they want... and I don't care.... but people would like a digital file at a reasonable cost and I am going to provide that since none of the other guys will. Guess what? I'm making more money and could care less about the copyrights after the sale. There needs to be more people like me to provide the service that people want at events.