My 2nd Wedding - Another Favor

met · August 9, 2010

So I shot a wedding this past Friday for a friend of mine. I told her no a few times and that she needed to hire a pro, but she said she wasn't able to find one last minute and couldn't afford one, etc. After asking several times, I finally acquiesced. This is another one of those favor things and I was basically shooting this for free for a friend for all intents and purposes. Having been in and helped to plan several weddings - I'm very familiar with the flow of weddings in general, so I wasn't worried about that aspect of it. I was pretty pleased at the progress I'd made from last year when I went through this same thing with another friend of mine that got married. This time I shot on full manual without any glitches and felt more comfortable handling the varied lighting. I borrowed my mom's D80 as a backup, made a light scoop (took the link from Scott's siggy) and borrowed a 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8 from a photographer friend of mine that owed me a favor.

They each only had one attendant (both family members) so most of the groups were family shots and she wanted those fairly straightforward.

I don't have them all processed, so I'll be posting them in a couple different batches.

C&C very welcome. I would definitely like to know what you think I did right and what I need to improve. Also feedback on the processing is always appreciated.

Batch 1: Getting Ready
1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

More to follow. Thanks for looking.

Darren Troy C · August 9, 2010

So far, so good!

Anxious to see more!

Really like #s 5 & 6.

Matthew Saville · August 9, 2010

Once again, Met, GORGEOUS photos, I don't really have anything at all to say as far as a critique goes.

The only thing that irks me is the circumstance and business end of things- Forgive me for calling someone upper middle class if they're not, but this doesn't look "poor" to me. YES, it's better that they hired you for free (or for a little?) ...than some stranger for $1500, because $1500 strangers almost ALWAYS end in disappointment. However, just glancing at these images I'd say you did at least a $3-4K job. And I'd say that the client COULD have afforded almost that much, if they had placed more value on photography in the first place.

I'm making this judgment partly based on the fact that the bride simply LOOKS like she could afford a little something, but also mostly based on the fact that they waited till the last minute to secure someone. That just screams de-valued.

So it's not your fault, and to some extent it's not the bride's fault, not directly. I blame the entire industry, and the digital revolution in general, for letting people de-value photography.

Those who've been around know I've got quite a soap box speech about "de-valuing" professional photography, but I'll stop here. Suffice it to say you did a gorgeous job, Molly, and you SHOULD have gotten paid at least a thousand bucks or two for work this good, and that's STILL considering it a favor. If you were doing this quality work professionally, it'd be worth 2-3 times as much. So get a bunch more 2nd shooting etc. work under your belt asap, and then start putting your foot down when people tell you they're so broke they can't afford ANYTHING!

=Matt=

met · August 9, 2010

Thanks for the feedback on the photos. It's a big boost. I try to be objective when looking at my photos. I was proud of myself with how they were turning out, but didn't want to be one of those delusional people. lol If she had been a random person telling me she was broke, I wouldn't have bought into it. However, it's just her and her mom and I know they don't have a lot of money. They're a young couple and the groom's father has also been out of work for awhile. She bought her dress secondhand, her sister-in-law did the hair and makeup, etc. The whole wedding was planned in about 1-2 months (a Friday night affair). BUT I also think they don't quite comprehend the favor I did them. And you're right - I don't want to set this precedent with my friends. I know part of it is that I'm not a professional (so it's a mental thing for me that I don't expect to be paid like a pro) and I just love creating images in general even though it is a lot of work - so I end up doing favors. And I cringed because I didn't want her to pay some schmuck off Craigslist $1000 for crap dumped on a disc at the end of the night. In the end I'll probably give her about 500-750 Lightroomed images (I'm not doing heavy Photoshop work on any of them), so I'll probably only end up with about 5-7 hours in post on these.

I haven't quite decided if I've hit on the processing of some of the bridal portraits, so I'll post a few of my variations when I get home later tonight to get feedback if I'm on the right track with them.

Thanks!

sweet caroline · August 9, 2010

Lovely work:) You did a good thing for your friend, and you have some beautiful images for your portfolio. Next time, charge some. Put what you would charge a stranger in the contract, and then show the discount. It really does help people understand the deal they are getting and what a big favor it is.

heatherfeather · August 10, 2010

sweet caroline wrote: »

Lovely work:) Put what you would charge a stranger in the contract, and then show the discount. It really does help people understand the deal they are getting and what a big favor it is.

YES! you did great! The gown photo is a very fun take on an old theme... I like what you did.

I have been actually having some fun this summer doing a couple weddings for old friends at quite a discount... (Fun for me, since I love to give gifts and it is mine to give if I want to...) But I had noticed in the past that if they didn't have to invest their money, they didn't want to invest their time either....and then the photos reflect the lack of care the couple gives them. But I figured out that if I show them what my time is worth, they don't want to waste it. Give them a dollar figure and then tell them that it is your gift to them. They'll get it.

chrisjohnson · August 10, 2010

Around here we never charge friends or neighbors for favors. Everything is done with wallets closed. It means they "owe you a big one" and won't be charging you when you ask for their help. I think you did the right thing and your work is certainly good enough to charge for at the right time.

On 5 I would have liked more dof on the rich background fabrics - but this is a question of personal taste, or maybe the carpet is a bit faded when you look too closely.

Nice work.

met · August 10, 2010

Ok, I would appreciate a little input as far as processing goes on a few of these bridal potraits. I didn't notice it at the time - but I should have straightened that one patch of hair on her neck in several of the pics. I know I need to work on noticing those little things.

Bridal Portraits

7. I did with very simple straightforward processing - just boosted a little cause I shot in RAW.

8. I know the bangs are a little distracting, but I really liked her natural grin.

9. I pumped this one a little more, which blew out the dress some.

10.

11.

12. This is where I was questioning a bit. Does this processing almost make her look more asian than hispanic?

13. Another little variation. Too red or purplely?

Thanks.

Qarik · August 10, 2010

the compositions are good enough though I am not digging the processing on several levels..1st the skin tones look a bit muddy and the grass color has "dirty green" look to it in some places and too saturated in other places. I *think* you overexposed in camera and maxed out thhe recovery slider in many of the shots and that is contributing. Look at the umbrella..it's dingy grey in the last 2 shots. Finally the set lacks bit of cohesion because of the different style of PP that are done. For example look at the skin tones from shot to shot..the 1st few look similar then it changes..then it change again in the last few. This just throw the eye off.

Please go back and redo! I say this because the shots are otherise pretty good and *worth* salvaging! I would try to match the PP work in shot 10 (lovely bokeh btw).

hmm..do you have vignette on these? I think that might be contributing to the dingy white as well.

Matthew Saville · August 10, 2010

goldenballs wrote: »

Around here we never charge friends or neighbors for favors. Everything is done with wallets closed. It means they "owe you a big one" and won't be charging you when you ask for their help. I think you did the right thing and your work is certainly good enough to charge for at the right time.

On 5 I would have liked more dof on the rich background fabrics - but this is a question of personal taste, or maybe the carpet is a bit faded when you look too closely.

Nice work.

I think of it this way: How many friends could you call at 4 AM and have them come bail you out of jail or off the side of the road or something? Those people get the "wallets closed" treatment. Everybody else just gets a discount. And think about it- What is the most expensive favor THEY could possibly do for you? A few hundred bucks for this or that? Maybe even double it, and my point is, I don't shoot a $5,000 wedding job for free, just because someone is a friend. Products and time need to be paid for, one way or another.

Just something to mull over...

=Matt=

met · August 10, 2010

Qarik wrote: »

the compositions are good enough though I am not digging the processing on several levels..1st the skin tones look a bit muddy and the grass color has "dirty green" look to it in some places and too saturated in other places. I *think* you overexposed in camera and maxed out thhe recovery slider in many of the shots and that is contributing. Look at the umbrella..it's dingy grey in the last 2 shots. Finally the set lacks bit of cohesion because of the different style of PP that are done. For example look at the skin tones from shot to shot..the 1st few look similar then it changes..then it change again in the last few. This just throw the eye off.

Please go back and redo! I say this because the shots are otherise pretty good and *worth* salvaging! I would try to match the PP work in shot 10 (lovely bokeh btw).

hmm..do you have vignette on these? I think that might be contributing to the dingy white as well.

Thanks, yeah there are vignettes on several of them - maybe over done. The various processing and skin tones are because I can't make up my mind so I was putting various versions out to see what went over better. My goal is to make them more cohesive once I hit on exactly what I like. I didn't really use the recovery slider in them I don't think - because I usually touch that as little as possible. I'll have to go back and check them in Lightroom. The recovery is used in some of the black and white ones because that is a preset that I have for that particular look. I did mess with the greens in most of them because I was trying to figure out how much I wanted the green to pop and show up in the image versus how much I wanted it to kind of fade in the background. Are there any of the processing styles that you think are on the right track with some tweaking? I was leaning towards 7/8 and 9/10.

Matthew Saville · August 11, 2010

met wrote: »

Thanks, yeah there are vignettes on several of them - maybe over done. The various processing and skin tones are because I can't make up my mind so I was putting various versions out to see what went over better. My goal is to make them more cohesive once I hit on exactly what I like. I didn't really use the recovery slider in them I don't think - because I usually touch that as little as possible. I'll have to go back and check them in Lightroom. The recovery is used in some of the black and white ones because that is a preset that I have for that particular look. I did mess with the greens in most of them because I was trying to figure out how much I wanted the green to pop and show up in the image versus how much I wanted it to kind of fade in the background. Are there any of the processing styles that you think are on the right track with some tweaking? I was leaning towards 7/8 and 9/10.

The best way to make these decisions is NOT online, it's in print. What I would highly recommend is making 4x6's of each one of these images, and scrutinizing them, comparing them with what you see on your monitor as well. Get your monitor calibrated of course. This will REALLY help you develop your eye for color, and develop / solidify your style, instead of going back and forth and publishing a collection of work that is slightly different from photo to photo...

=Matt=

chrisjohnson · August 11, 2010

Matthew Saville wrote: »

I think of it this way: How many friends could you call at 4 AM and have them come bail you out of jail or off the side of the road or something? Those people get the "wallets closed" treatment. Everybody else just gets a discount. And think about it- What is the most expensive favor THEY could possibly do for you? A few hundred bucks for this or that? Maybe even double it, and my point is, I don't shoot a $5,000 wedding job for free, just because someone is a friend. Products and time need to be paid for, one way or another.

Just something to mull over...

=Matt=

Right, it is not that easy to make the judgement call.

Moogle Pepper · August 11, 2010

Judgment call on... giving the "wallet closed?" I think it is quite easy, you just know who would get out of jail, willing to do the craziest stuff for you, at 4 am. You would have to be that close to each other to know it. But as Matt said, how many of them are there that would do that for you?

But anyway, Met, I like the processing of the first set.

chrisjohnson · August 12, 2010

Moogle Pepper wrote: »

Judgment call on... giving the "wallet closed?" I think it is quite easy, you just know who would get out of jail, willing to do the craziest stuff for you, at 4 am. You would have to be that close to each other to know it. But as Matt said, how many of them are there that would do that for you?

But anyway, Met, I like the processing of the first set.

I like to think almost anybody in my Ipod would help me get out of jail at 4 in the morning. Hopefully I never need to put this to the test.

I get Matt's point and respect it. I also get Met's from her different position. It is a long journey to go from where she is to where Matt is, and it likely starts by charging a friend or a friend-of-a-friend. This is always going to be a difficult judgement call which is why people bring it up so often on this board. Matt is being very helpful and practical.

I am lucky to be doing well enough professionally to be generous about pro-bono work. I am a sucker for pleas for help. From a selfish perspective it makes me feel good about myself and I often get to do things I might not otherwise do. I never think about reciprocity
but, mulling it over, maybe this is why I would not be sitting in jail at 4 in the morning wondering who to call.

A short message from the pulpit by reverend goldenballs.

Matthew Saville · August 12, 2010

goldenballs wrote: »

...It is a long journey...

...I am lucky to be doing well enough professionally to be generous about pro-bono work. I am a sucker for pleas for help...

...I never think about reciprocity...

Yes it takes a lot of creative business tactics to get going in busiess. And I'll be honest- I started out shooting (almost) for free as well. I think my first ~5 weddings were less than $500. And I probably shot a couple weddings for people who SHOULD have ponied up for a much more expensive photographer, but just didn't value their pictures enough to know any better. So in the spirit of full disclosure, I speak from experience as one who was part of the "problem" to begin with. But I try and chalk it up to a lesson learned, and now I feel slightly obligated to try and help restore the industry before the phenomenon of de-valuation completely devours the low and mid sections of the photographic industry.

And yes, some may be lucky enough, but I guess I take it one step further and I would ask even you, GB, to still keep a keen eye out for signs that your "freebie" clients are de-valuing photography. I think it's awesome that you do pro-bono work, honest, but I'm just saying keep both eyes open. If you show up to a pro-bono job and the bride's got $1500 shoes, a $1500 cake and a $1500 dress, well, congratulations my friend, you've just been had. Usually this is not the case among experienced professionals of course; we know a duck when it looks / quacks / walks like a duck. It's often the PROSUMERS who don't know any better, and they think they're gaining experience by shooting for free, or they think they're doing well when they charge $500 just so they can buy that new 50 1.4 they've been wanting...

AGAIN, I'm not saying that there aren't dirt-poor clients out there. Broke people get married all the time! I'm just saying that as an industry, we need to keep our eyes open. Instead of chasing "experienc" or a quick buck, we should draw the line when a bride has a $15-30K wedding budget but only $0-1000 for their photography.

=Matt=

trevorb · August 14, 2010

Really enjoyed your first and second set, you have a great eye for light.

Jane B. · August 14, 2010

Matt
I know next to nothing about wedding photography but I do notice that your location is listed as Southern California which from other things I get the impression is one of the, if not the, most expensive part of the US! Please think about this when comparing your pricing to others from say the mid-west.

Matthew Saville wrote: »

Yes it takes a lot of creative business tactics to get going in busiess. And I'll be honest- I started out shooting (almost) for free as well. I think my first ~5 weddings were less than $500. And I probably shot a couple weddings for people who SHOULD have ponied up for a much more expensive photographer, but just didn't value their pictures enough to know any better. So in the spirit of full disclosure, I speak from experience as one who was part of the "problem" to begin with. But I try and chalk it up to a lesson learned, and now I feel slightly obligated to try and help restore the industry before the phenomenon of de-valuation completely devours the low and mid sections of the photographic industry.

And yes, some may be lucky enough, but I guess I take it one step further and I would ask even you, GB, to still keep a keen eye out for signs that your "freebie" clients are de-valuing photography. I think it's awesome that you do pro-bono work, honest, but I'm just saying keep both eyes open. If you show up to a pro-bono job and the bride's got $1500 shoes, a $1500 cake and a $1500 dress, well, congratulations my friend, you've just been had. Usually this is not the case among experienced professionals of course; we know a duck when it looks / quacks / walks like a duck. It's often the PROSUMERS who don't know any better, and they think they're gaining experience by shooting for free, or they think they're doing well when they charge $500 just so they can buy that new 50 1.4 they've been wanting...

AGAIN, I'm not saying that there aren't dirt-poor clients out there. Broke people get married all the time! I'm just saying that as an industry, we need to keep our eyes open. Instead of chasing "experienc" or a quick buck, we should draw the line when a bride has a $15-30K wedding budget but only $0-1000 for their photography.

=Matt=

TheCheesehead · August 15, 2010

My 2nd Wedding - Another Favor

Matthew Saville wrote: »

Once again, Met, GORGEOUS photos, I don't really have anything at all to say as far as a critique goes.

The only thing that irks me is the circumstance and business end of things- Forgive me for calling someone upper middle class if they're not, but this doesn't look "poor" to me. YES, it's better that they hired you for free (or for a little?) ...than some stranger for $1500, because $1500 strangers almost ALWAYS end in disappointment. However, just glancing at these images I'd say you did at least a $3-4K job. And I'd say that the client COULD have afforded almost that much, if they had placed more value on photography in the first place.

I'm making this judgment partly based on the fact that the bride simply LOOKS like she could afford a little something, but also mostly based on the fact that they waited till the last minute to secure someone. That just screams de-valued.

So it's not your fault, and to some extent it's not the bride's fault, not directly. I blame the entire industry, and the digital revolution in general, for letting people de-value photography.

Those who've been around know I've got quite a soap box speech about "de-valuing" professional photography, but I'll stop here. Suffice it to say you did a gorgeous job, Molly, and you SHOULD have gotten paid at least a thousand bucks or two for work this good, and that's STILL considering it a favor. If you were doing this quality work professionally, it'd be worth 2-3 times as much. So get a bunch more 2nd shooting etc. work under your belt asap, and then start putting your foot down when people tell you they're so broke they can't afford ANYTHING!

=Matt=

I like your take on this.

Matthew Saville · August 15, 2010

Jane B. wrote: »

Matt
I know next to nothing about wedding photography but I do notice that your location is listed as Southern California which from other things I get the impression is one of the, if not the, most expensive part of the US! Please think about this when comparing your pricing to others from say the mid-west.

Certainly, sorry about that. Hopefully those who live elsewhere can do a little quick math based on the average income of their target market.

The philosophy I'm speaking of should be transferable to different economies, is my point: Don't let yourself get taken advantage of by strangers, or friends you barely know.

=Matt=

Irrok · August 15, 2010

I think you images are stunning. I really like the first two with the sepia tone applied. The dress is always a challenge to capture, but I think you did well. It is a shame that they did not pay you for your services. Your work is beyond beginner. I'd have to say that overall your images look soft, almost feminine. That's a great look for weddings and brides... +

-Best

chrisjohnson · August 16, 2010

Matthew Saville wrote: »

Yes it takes a lot of creative business tactics to get going in busiess. And I'll be honest- I started out shooting (almost) for free as well. I think my first ~5 weddings were less than $500. And I probably shot a couple weddings for people who SHOULD have ponied up for a much more expensive photographer, but just didn't value their pictures enough to know any better. So in the spirit of full disclosure, I speak from experience as one who was part of the "problem" to begin with. But I try and chalk it up to a lesson learned, and now I feel slightly obligated to try and help restore the industry before the phenomenon of de-valuation completely devours the low and mid sections of the photographic industry.

And yes, some may be lucky enough, but I guess I take it one step further and I would ask even you, GB, to still keep a keen eye out for signs that your "freebie" clients are de-valuing photography. I think it's awesome that you do pro-bono work, honest, but I'm just saying keep both eyes open. If you show up to a pro-bono job and the bride's got $1500 shoes, a $1500 cake and a $1500 dress, well, congratulations my friend, you've just been had. Usually this is not the case among experienced professionals of course; we know a duck when it looks / quacks / walks like a duck. It's often the PROSUMERS who don't know any better, and they think they're gaining experience by shooting for free, or they think they're doing well when they charge $500 just so they can buy that new 50 1.4 they've been wanting...

AGAIN, I'm not saying that there aren't dirt-poor clients out there. Broke people get married all the time! I'm just saying that as an industry, we need to keep our eyes open. Instead of chasing "experienc" or a quick buck, we should draw the line when a bride has a $15-30K wedding budget but only $0-1000 for their photography.

=Matt=

Fully agree with what you say here.

I think a lot of beginners have a problem HOW to ask for money and then how much, and then all those what if questions like what if "my friend" is not happy with my work. So they end up doing it for free.

Actually the uncomfortable part of pro-bono is that nobody likes to feel like a charity case. Most would prefer to pay. I actually lost a couple of clients over the years because NOT paying made them feel so uncomfortable and I never figured out how to ask them for money.

Perhaps your "budget" idea is good for weddings. You say I'll do it for 15% (or whatever) of what the whole thing is costing you, including the honeymoon. Then they tell you what the price ought to be.

Matthew Saville · August 16, 2010

goldenballs wrote: »

...I think a lot of beginners have a problem HOW to ask for money and then how much, and then all those what if questions like what if "my friend" is not happy with my work. So they end up doing it for free...

...I actually lost a couple of clients over the years because NOT paying made them feel so uncomfortable and I never figured out how to ask them for money...

This is exactly what I'm talking about. This is one of the core issues that the entire business of photography is faced with today. Beginners who get a camera, get interested in making some money on the side, and unknowingly do $2-4K worth of work for just a few hundred bucks, or for free.

Just do the math- how many thousand MORE "aspiring professional" photographers are out there now compared to 5 years ago? How much MORE "pro bono" work are they doing, compared to 5 years ago?

NOTE, I'm not talking about the total. As I've always said, poor people get married too and there's always room in the industry for aspiring pros and low-budget weddings. What I'm talking about is the INCREASE of this phenomenon. Because that increase directly correlates to a DECREASE in the size of the pie going to the hard-working full-time professionals.

BTW I'm *not* pointing fingers here, I certainly don't claim to know anyone's financial situation, etc. Hopefully, I'm just raising awareness.

=Matt=

chrisjohnson · August 17, 2010

Matthew Saville wrote: »

This is exactly what I'm talking about. This is one of the core issues that the entire business of photography is faced with today. Beginners who get a camera, get interested in making some money on the side, and unknowingly do $2-4K worth of work for just a few hundred bucks, or for free.

Just do the math- how many thousand MORE "aspiring professional" photographers are out there now compared to 5 years ago? How much MORE "pro bono" work are they doing, compared to 5 years ago?

NOTE, I'm not talking about the total. As I've always said, poor people get married too and there's always room in the industry for aspiring pros and low-budget weddings. What I'm talking about is the INCREASE of this phenomenon. Because that increase directly correlates to a DECREASE in the size of the pie going to the hard-working full-time professionals.

BTW I'm *not* pointing fingers here, I certainly don't claim to know anyone's financial situation, etc. Hopefully, I'm just raising awareness.

=Matt=

Let's forget the pro-bono for a minute. I don't do pro-bono photography, mainly because I am not good enough and too scared about failing, especially for friends. I do consultancy for small businesses who run into partnership problems, or are going down, or wondering how to go to the next level. The people I offend are bankers and accountants, and who cares about them. They do quite nicely thank you with or without me because they have legal protection and they do not get upset easily.

You are right, the photo business is changing fast because many people can take a half-decent photo and are glad to do it because it is their hobby. This is not really pro-bono; this is an army of hobbyists who are stumbling towards a business, and threatening the pro livelihood as they do so.

One trouble with the photo industry is that it is not organized. There is nobody lobbying for codes of conduct or legislation that might protect the professional even though there are real issues regarding intellectual property, copyright, and personal privacy. Many amateurs who take payment do not pay taxes even. No sensible industry would be leaving this to Washington to decide, but the photo business is entirely individuals who are not organized. Consumer protection is in its infancy - what happens when you hire a nitwit to shoot your hopefully once-in-a-lifetime wedding and they screw up? When the airline taking you on your honeymoon screws up then you have some rights - not many, but some. Even the cake guy can get sued if people get an upset stomach.

I think most pro-photographers are best advised to select a niche and invest in marketing their real value in a transparent way, for want of alternatives. What are the differences between hiring a pro or an amateur for weddings? Most photographers here tend to answer by talking about the quality of their photos. (In the case of the amateur this is usually assuming good weather, good lighting, and nothing going wrong with their kit). What should a wedding couple budget for photography? There is no proper information readily available. There is no standard code of practice. There are no industry guarantees.

When people hire YOU they are assuming firstly that you will be RELIABLE - I assume. Just the same as when you buy the wedding cake - it will arrive on time, be baked properly, give satisfaction, etc. You can charge a lot because you can guarantee to deliver a result (second shooter, back-up kit, lighting, etc). The dreamy images with bokeh are a given, I assume - even an amateur can deliver this on the right day. You get top dollar because you combine reliabilty with a conventional artistry - not the other way around. As a marketing guy I do believe that most wedding photographers would be better off selling a reliable service as top priority, not their artistic style.

Sorry for the long and burbly post which is going well off-topic. I sense your real concern is how to move the pro-photography business forward and that triggered my interest.

SeascapeS · August 20, 2010

Interesting conversation. I'm stuck in the middle of the "favors" also. Friends of friends and such. I end up spending 20+ hours on editing and end up with a $50 gift card.

Just an FYI - we are in the suburbs of PA and my daughter's friend called a photographer for prices: $5,000 not including any prints.

met · October 14, 2010

Since I shared from the beginning, I thought I'd give a bit of an update on this situation. I had written the whole thing off several weeks ago, but recently had contact with her again which is bringing it all up for me again. Argh.

When I spoke with her I explained that I would have a teaser up ASAP, but it would probably be at least 3-4 weeks before I would get all the proofs online for her family to order prints. Photographer is not my job, so it would be something I'd be completing on the side in my free time.

So here's a little set up. I live in Iowa. The week after her wedding, all of those major floods hit Iowa (my town was particularly hard hit) which meant I had no power and water in my apartment for the first week. (We're talking all major highways flooded - no way in and out of town, etc.) The week after that my sister-in-law is in and out of the hospital with pregnancy complications and my niece was born prematurely, so I was traveling extensively back and forth to the hospital for that. That's two weeks after the wedding. Amazingly enough, I still had about 1/2 the photos done. Teaser up, all the portraits completed and was just working on the reception photos. I e-mailed her the teaser the day or two after her wedding - no reply. Ok, so no feedback. Whatevs. Two weeks after the wedding I get a text. It was pretty much along the lines of .... "Where's my photos? My family wants to order pictures." I reiterated to her that it would be 3-4 weeks, but I was working on them as fast as I could and briefly explained my situation. First day of week 3 - a text message. "I really need my pictures." And phone call from her husband - I sent him to voicemail it was basically, "When can we get the pictures." At that point I sent him a text telling him exactly what I told her Week 2. Week 4 - I have all the pictures up. I sent her a text to that effect and that I needed her new address so that I could send her the disk. Basically at this point - I just want to wash my hands of the whole thing, give them the disk and be done with it. I hear nothing from her. Two weeks after that I send her another text because her e-mail wasn't going through explaining once again that I just needed her address to mail her disk. The week after that - I sent her husband a message about needing their address. No reply. Finally I get an e-mail from her a couple days ago. "Hey - when can I get my disk?" I immediately replied that I was just waiting on the address and explained that I'd been trying to contact her. Her only reply was the address - no explanation that her e-mail and phone number had changed or anything. I told her I would put it in the mail the next day. She briefly thanked me - end of story.

Wow. Oh um, I hope you liked the pictures.

Oh and the family that had been so insistent on seeing the pictures within 2 weeks cause they HAD to order prints right away. They haven't ordered a single thing and they've been up for over a month.

I'm taking deep breaths, trying to be a kind person and letting it go.

Lesson learned. HARD. I guess everyone has to at some point.

met · October 14, 2010

Irrok wrote: »

I think you images are stunning. I really like the first two with the sepia tone applied. The dress is always a challenge to capture, but I think you did well. It is a shame that they did not pay you for your services. Your work is beyond beginner. I'd have to say that overall your images look soft, almost feminine. That's a great look for weddings and brides... +

-Best

Thanks so much for your kind comments.

Agnieszka · October 14, 2010

Qarik wrote: »

the compositions are good enough though I am not digging the processing on several levels..1st the skin tones look a bit muddy and the grass color has "dirty green" look to it in some places and too saturated in other places. I *think* you overexposed in camera and maxed out thhe recovery slider in many of the shots and that is contributing. Look at the umbrella..it's dingy grey in the last 2 shots.

Matthew Saville wrote: »

Once again, Met, GORGEOUS photos, I don't really have anything at all to say as far as a critique goes.

=Matt=

Ha! Ok ... I'm gonna go against the stream here ... yet again!

(Must be not my day today

)

First off ... Matt ... WOW! Did not expect that from you! Met, the photos are nice, but they don't wow me - not at all (sorry!).

THE PHOTOS:

#1 nice but soft ... don't know why you did a portrait (while she was not in her dress) so I'm assuming it's a candid, if so .... nice catch

#2 I like your perspective, I like her look on her face

#3 Ohhhhhh boy. Not liking it at all. What's that line on the wall? Why is the dress hanging in no-man land in the middle of the wall? I don't know. Just not anything special (and I'm not saying it's necessarily bad, just saying that *I* might have hung it up somewhere else ...)

#4 Nice

#5 Nice, but again .. nothing special ... did you get any other detail shots?

It might be a nice photo in like a little collage, but just the photo itself doesn't wow me.

#6 Nice

ok ... then the bridals. I totally have to agree with Quarik, the whites were wayyyy blown and then you tried to save them by playing with the levels ... Been there, done that > let's face it, IT HAPPENS. BUT let's be honest here, the white umbrella DID end up gray, there are absolutely NO details in the dress and as mentioned the skin tones are all over the place (but as you said, you were trying to figure out which one you like best - so no critique on that one

)

THE FREE SHOOT:
I shoot for free for friends & family. I have absolutely no desire to make my friends pay for my work, I do it because I love them and they ask me because they love my work, it's my gift for them. Everybody has a different approach.

The only thing I DO make sure is that they LISTEN to me! (listen, listen, talk, talk!!!!!) It is veeeryyyy important to me that we work out a schedule together, I explain them that I want to give them THE BEST PHOTOS (and they we are not putting the schedule together FOR ME, but FOR THEM, and their final photos). This is very important as as soon as your friends realize you'll shoot their wedding, they won't interview any photographers, and will not understand the photo-side (you don't pay for it > you don't spend any minute thinking about it). So it's YOUR fault if things don't work out in that department (not saying you necessarily, Met ... just saying in general). And no, they will not order one single print, nor buy an album from you. Do not go with high expectations into stuff like this. Any sold print is a treasure you just discovered!

PRICING!
Matt ... wow ... ya know ... this was the second wedding she shot ... so ...

Matthew Saville wrote: »

However, just glancing at these images I'd say you did at least a $3-4K job.

=Matt=

Just because somebody spends some hours in photoshop or lightroom does not mean that they should get paid like a pro that has been in the business for years! Uhm ... nothing against you Met, but $3-4K is a bit much, don'tcha think?????? Not sure where this comment came from - maybe you saw more photos than the rest of us?

I have a lot to say about building up a portfolio and charging for the first couple weddings, but I'm gonna bite my lips and keep them shut, otherwise this response is going to be a liiiiiitle bit long

Met - I'm sorry if this all sounds ridiculously harsh to you. I hope I didn't offend you! It's nothing you said or did .. the photos are nice ... it's just where the whole discussion is going, and people not seeing some of the problems

I do hope to see more of this set and from you, don't let my comments discourage you, this was not my intention. Just wanted to throw out my opinion

Moogle Pepper · October 14, 2010

met wrote: »

Lesson learned. HARD. I guess everyone has to at some point.

It's tough and it sucks, but at least you learned something here.

l.k.madison · October 14, 2010

I, too, give out shoots for free.. I've only done a few (including a wedding for a DEAR friend -the first time I met her I was just starting to suffer from morning sickness in the backseat of a mutual friend's car). I shot my sister's best friend's baby for free, as a gift, because I wanted to, despite losing my baby just a few short weeks before that.

I have another friend (my husband's boss's wife) who's been trying to get pregnant for 8 years and has had two miscarriages and an IUI treatment trying to conceive. She, too will get a free shoot as soon as she has a successful pregnancy. Her husband has helped us put food on the table when they were struggling themselves to do the same. She's getting a free shoot because gosh darnit, she deserves it. And the 400 miles between us won't phase me either, it'll be worth every minute of the 16 hour round trip.

Met, honestly, that first photo blew me away. Aside from the fact that she wasn't in her dress, had she been in her dress, it would be an absolute WOW. It's still an A in my book, though.

I'm sorry she burned you and gave you a bad experience. Some people just see a favor as exactly that - a favor and nothing more. Like you have NOTHING else to worry about but them. We all know people like that. There's still people out in this world that will see it as a gift, and honor it and treasure it for exactly what it is.

Oh, and by the way, I have another free wedding in a few weeks. The bride shot my wedding just over 3 years ago. Bridals on a disk, every negative from the wedding and 200 4x6s in an album handed over without her accepting a penny. I can't charge her, I *won't* charge her.

How one does their business is exactly that, their business. Just my $.02.

met · October 14, 2010

Agnieszka wrote: »

Ha! Ok ... I'm gonna go against the stream here ... yet again! (Must be not my day today )

First off ... Matt ... WOW! Did not expect that from you! Met, the photos are nice, but they don't wow me - not at all (sorry!).

THE PHOTOS:

#1 nice but soft ... don't know why you did a portrait (while she was not in her dress) so I'm assuming it's a candid, if so .... nice catch

#2 I like your perspective, I like her look on her face

#3 Ohhhhhh boy. Not liking it at all. What's that line on the wall? Why is the dress hanging in no-man land in the middle of the wall? I don't know. Just not anything special (and I'm not saying it's necessarily bad, just saying that *I* might have hung it up somewhere else ...)

#4 Nice

#5 Nice, but again .. nothing special ... did you get any other detail shots? It might be a nice photo in like a little collage, but just the photo itself doesn't wow me.

#6 Nice

ok ... then the bridals. I totally have to agree with Quarik, the whites were wayyyy blown and then you tried to save them by playing with the levels ... Been there, done that > let's face it, IT HAPPENS. BUT let's be honest here, the white umbrella DID end up gray, there are absolutely NO details in the dress and as mentioned the skin tones are all over the place (but as you said, you were trying to figure out which one you like best - so no critique on that one )

THE FREE SHOOT:
I shoot for free for friends & family. I have absolutely no desire to make my friends pay for my work, I do it because I love them and they ask me because they love my work, it's my gift for them. Everybody has a different approach. The only thing I DO make sure is that they LISTEN to me! (listen, listen, talk, talk!!!!!) It is veeeryyyy important to me that we work out a schedule together, I explain them that I want to give them THE BEST PHOTOS (and they we are not putting the schedule together FOR ME, but FOR THEM, and their final photos). This is very important as as soon as your friends realize you'll shoot their wedding, they won't interview any photographers, and will not understand the photo-side (you don't pay for it > you don't spend any minute thinking about it). So it's YOUR fault if things don't work out in that department (not saying you necessarily, Met ... just saying in general). And no, they will not order one single print, nor buy an album from you. Do not go with high expectations into stuff like this. Any sold print is a treasure you just discovered!

PRICING!
Matt ... wow ... ya know ... this was the second wedding she shot ... so ...

Just because somebody spends some hours in photoshop or lightroom does not mean that they should get paid like a pro that has been in the business for years! Uhm ... nothing against you Met, but $3-4K is a bit much, don'tcha think?????? Not sure where this comment came from - maybe you saw more photos than the rest of us?

I have a lot to say about building up a portfolio and charging for the first couple weddings, but I'm gonna bite my lips and keep them shut, otherwise this response is going to be a liiiiiitle bit long

Met - I'm sorry if this all sounds ridiculously harsh to you. I hope I didn't offend you! It's nothing you said or did .. the photos are nice ... it's just where the whole discussion is going, and people not seeing some of the problems I do hope to see more of this set and from you, don't let my comments discourage you, this was not my intention. Just wanted to throw out my opinion

Hey no problem, no offense. The first few were candids of her getting ready. I did get several detail shots, that was just one that I happened to have done when I did my initial post. I did have problems with the bridals trying to figure out how I wanted to process them and some of those were experiments. The umbrella wasn't actually white. It was kind of a light greyish/tan color.

I wouldn't charge a close friend for pictures and never have. She's actually more of an acquaintance (well the groom's family are acquaintances and she is kind of a friend of a friend). I'm not trying to "break into" wedding work. I supposed the irk comes in when I encouraged her multiple times to hire a pro and she kept coming back to me asking me to do them. And then barely acknowledges me afterwards except to ride my butt within two weeks of the wedding even though we had discussed a clear time line before. I wasn't actually expecting to sell prints - I just found it ironic that the reason she was constantly on my case was because her family was hot to trot to order prints and they haven't for a month now.

I shoot for the joy of shooting and don't want to lose it.

Here's the few I put on my blog.
http://mollytippett.blogspot.com/2010/08/matt-maria-wedding-sneak-peek.html

My 2nd Wedding - Another Favor

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