Wow-sorry it ended that way MET-that really sucks.
You did a great job and have nothing to feel bad about. I think we've covered the free vs charge debate. Use these to build business and make some lemonade.
BTW-I thought the smile on the bride looked tense-forced even-there might be bigger reasons for her snappish texts.
You did your part 110% The rest doesn't matter.
~Matt
__________________________________________
Enjoy the journey, it's the best part.
Nikon D70s
Nikon F4s
Pentax K1000
Olympus OM-10
Gitzo CF tripod/Arca Swiss ball head
Not nearly enough lenses
Met- I know this is an old post but I like your images!
The free-bee deal-y-o's are always so difficult especially with family and friends.
I just had a refferal from a family member to a mutual friend and when I quoted them my event pricing they told me point blank, I thought you were shooting for free for a while. OUCH! No thank you.
I think Angie has given a fair C&C on the photographs.....but I have a few thoughts on free shoots....
First off, Im sure we have all shot for free...if not still, then at least when we started out. Any condemnation IMO is hypocritical.
In any event it isnt the shooting for free that makes you feel "dirty"....its being taken advantage of....or feeling as though you have been handed the short end of the stick. Being paid for the photography doesnt always make up for that. The treatment you recieved...and the expectations....all of it...more than likely would have existed even had you been paid handsomely....and there is a real possibility that in this case expectations and pressure would be even higher.
Im no advocate for shooting for free;I dont think anyone should work (at any sort of labor) and not be paid a fair wage....but I can understand wanting to build a portfolio...and confidence....especially in wedding work.
Just remember....when you are charging several thousand dollars per event...there's a checkbook toting bridzilla out there somewhere who can squeeze you into her budget !
Met, don't let this wedding shoot affect you, or your friendship with the bride and her family. When you give something away (donate) to a friend...it's just that...gone. Place a followup call...not for your interest, but for theirs. Find out if they ran short of money, or something else happened. And, then let it go.
Earlier this year, I shot some family pictures for a friend...drove 40 miles to get to their house, spent several hours there...shot in and around their home and set up the strobes and took some family portraits...quite an effort really, but then again, they are close friends...the usual agreement is that I shoot, post process, and post to my website...they then order from the website at my cost...yes it was really for free..at least from my end. When they ran short on cash and couldn't afford the prints, I emailed the set to them, and forgot about it. (And, yes, even at that low of a price, they didn't have the money. Some family's really aren't doing all that well. I like to think that I, and others like me, are able to fill in the gaps, sometimes.)
Your first set is very nice...good effort. On the other hand, your second set leaves a lot to be desired...skin tones...dress blown out.
Since you say that you didn't have any glitches with manual exposure, please post the originals for 8, 10, and 13...so we can see where you are coming from. Where did you get the idea that pushing your photos to that extent and blowing out the dress is something that the bride wanted? Did you talk to her and tell her that you would post process the detail out of the dress? After all, as a photographer, you are working for the client, not yourself.
Just wondering why you post processed your outside shoots the way you did.
Remember, no one may want you to take pictures, but they all want to see them. Educate yourself like you'll live forever and live like you'll die tomorrow.
Thanks, yeah there are vignettes on several of them - maybe over done. The various processing and skin tones are because I can't make up my mind so I was putting various versions out to see what went over better. My goal is to make them more cohesive once I hit on exactly what I like. I didn't really use the recovery slider in them I don't think - because I usually touch that as little as possible. I'll have to go back and check them in Lightroom. The recovery is used in some of the black and white ones because that is a preset that I have for that particular look. I did mess with the greens in most of them because I was trying to figure out how much I wanted the green to pop and show up in the image versus how much I wanted it to kind of fade in the background. Are there any of the processing styles that you think are on the right track with some tweaking? I was leaning towards 7/8 and 9/10.
I did have problems with the bridals trying to figure out how I wanted to process them and some of those were experiments. The umbrella wasn't actually white. It was kind of a light greyish/tan color.
I'm not sure if you read between the lines or what, but nowhere did I say that I "nailed the exposure in manual". In fact, I said that I struggled with processing some of the bridals. And I didn't deliver those images to her like that - they were trial and error where I was trying to figure out where to go with them (over a month ago). I welcome critique to get better, but for some reason it seems to me that this thread seems to have taken on the tone of suddenly feeling the need to put me in my place in reaction to someone else liking an image from my set. I never claimed that my images were spectacular or that I was some kind of prodigy wedding photographer looking to charge pro prices after doing someone a favor, I was venting frustration over a situation where I felt used. I no longer have the RAW images from the wedding as I don't have tons and tons of hard drive space. Otherwise, I would post some of the originals (some that were nicely exposed and some that had some issues).
Ed, I posted my reply in response to your previously unedited post.
That's okay...I really want to help...I sometimes write...rewrite...and then post...trying to get a feeling for what is actually being said. Sorry if it offended you.
The thread did sort of get hijacked...talking about doing weddings for friends wasn't your original intent, I'm sure.
My original advice...and I trimmed it out since I thought your said you shot manual and didn't have any glitches...and I thought, well her first dress shot in you second posting is okay, maybe I read her intent incorrectly.
Here's my advice...a tip if you will. If you ever encounter that situation again where you find yourself unable to come up with a shooting solution in manual mode, don't panic, just put it in P or Aperture priority and shoot away...riding your flash exposure compensation in order to get the histogram looking good. That's my rule...make the histogram look good...that way when I post process, I most likely have a nice properly exposed image to work with.
I don't know if you were using a flash in your dress shots, but it's highly recommened...even on camera, with natural light coming in from an angle you can get some nice lighting.
If you find yourself in that situation again and you are in manual mode...aim your camera at the bright background, dial in an f-stop or two under exposure, and then let your flash light the subject.
I just did an engagement shoot last week...eveything was going okay, and then when the light started going away and the couple wanted a shot in from of a flag...everything went way over exposed...I was shooting my D300...with two SB900's in commander mode...something that I usually have nailed. I took a minute to try and figure it out, took a couple of more shots...didn't work...so I switched to aperture priority and got a real nice shot that they liked. I think you'll find that your camera is pretty smart...so when you need to...flip the switch and keep on going. I've found that a lot of times the camera's solution pretty close to what I had in mind anyway...and then if I want, I'll add whatever effect I was trying to get in camera, in Photoshop.
Don't let the manual only shooters talk you into never shooting in Auto mode so to speak. It has it's place...especially in changing light conditions like I was shooting in.
As far breaking the mold so to speak, let me recommend a book to you, "Captured by the Light," by David Ziser. (Available from Amazon for around $35...$20 off the cover price.) He's world renowned, and shoots Canon, and a mixture of Canon and Sigma lenses...some L glass, some not. Anyway, it's worth reading. I think you'll get a lot out of the book. He's been shooting high dollar weddings for the last 8 years shooting Jpegs. You have to know what you are doing, but...jpegs work well. So, I guess my suggestion is, don't be afraid to do what you feel is best at the time...but, get the shot....that's the bottom line.
Good luck on your next shoot.
Hope this helps.
I see that you do have an eye for posing...keep after it.
Remember, no one may want you to take pictures, but they all want to see them. Educate yourself like you'll live forever and live like you'll die tomorrow.
Comments
www.tednghiem.com
You did a great job and have nothing to feel bad about. I think we've covered the free vs charge debate. Use these to build business and make some lemonade.
BTW-I thought the smile on the bride looked tense-forced even-there might be bigger reasons for her snappish texts.
You did your part 110% The rest doesn't matter.
__________________________________________
Enjoy the journey, it's the best part.
Nikon D70s
Nikon F4s
Pentax K1000
Olympus OM-10
Gitzo CF tripod/Arca Swiss ball head
Not nearly enough lenses
The free-bee deal-y-o's are always so difficult especially with family and friends.
I just had a refferal from a family member to a mutual friend and when I quoted them my event pricing they told me point blank, I thought you were shooting for free for a while. OUCH! No thank you.
Complete Gear List Here
First off, Im sure we have all shot for free...if not still, then at least when we started out. Any condemnation IMO is hypocritical.
In any event it isnt the shooting for free that makes you feel "dirty"....its being taken advantage of....or feeling as though you have been handed the short end of the stick. Being paid for the photography doesnt always make up for that. The treatment you recieved...and the expectations....all of it...more than likely would have existed even had you been paid handsomely....and there is a real possibility that in this case expectations and pressure would be even higher.
Im no advocate for shooting for free;I dont think anyone should work (at any sort of labor) and not be paid a fair wage....but I can understand wanting to build a portfolio...and confidence....especially in wedding work.
Just remember....when you are charging several thousand dollars per event...there's a checkbook toting bridzilla out there somewhere who can squeeze you into her budget !
Jeff
-Need help with Dgrin?; Wedding Photography Resources
-My Website - Blog - Tips for Senior Portraiture
Earlier this year, I shot some family pictures for a friend...drove 40 miles to get to their house, spent several hours there...shot in and around their home and set up the strobes and took some family portraits...quite an effort really, but then again, they are close friends...the usual agreement is that I shoot, post process, and post to my website...they then order from the website at my cost...yes it was really for free..at least from my end. When they ran short on cash and couldn't afford the prints, I emailed the set to them, and forgot about it. (And, yes, even at that low of a price, they didn't have the money. Some family's really aren't doing all that well. I like to think that I, and others like me, are able to fill in the gaps, sometimes.)
Your first set is very nice...good effort. On the other hand, your second set leaves a lot to be desired...skin tones...dress blown out.
Since you say that you didn't have any glitches with manual exposure, please post the originals for 8, 10, and 13...so we can see where you are coming from. Where did you get the idea that pushing your photos to that extent and blowing out the dress is something that the bride wanted? Did you talk to her and tell her that you would post process the detail out of the dress? After all, as a photographer, you are working for the client, not yourself.
Just wondering why you post processed your outside shoots the way you did.
Educate yourself like you'll live forever and live like you'll die tomorrow.
Ed
That's okay...I really want to help...I sometimes write...rewrite...and then post...trying to get a feeling for what is actually being said. Sorry if it offended you.
The thread did sort of get hijacked...talking about doing weddings for friends wasn't your original intent, I'm sure.
My original advice...and I trimmed it out since I thought your said you shot manual and didn't have any glitches...and I thought, well her first dress shot in you second posting is okay, maybe I read her intent incorrectly.
Here's my advice...a tip if you will. If you ever encounter that situation again where you find yourself unable to come up with a shooting solution in manual mode, don't panic, just put it in P or Aperture priority and shoot away...riding your flash exposure compensation in order to get the histogram looking good. That's my rule...make the histogram look good...that way when I post process, I most likely have a nice properly exposed image to work with.
I don't know if you were using a flash in your dress shots, but it's highly recommened...even on camera, with natural light coming in from an angle you can get some nice lighting.
If you find yourself in that situation again and you are in manual mode...aim your camera at the bright background, dial in an f-stop or two under exposure, and then let your flash light the subject.
I just did an engagement shoot last week...eveything was going okay, and then when the light started going away and the couple wanted a shot in from of a flag...everything went way over exposed...I was shooting my D300...with two SB900's in commander mode...something that I usually have nailed. I took a minute to try and figure it out, took a couple of more shots...didn't work...so I switched to aperture priority and got a real nice shot that they liked. I think you'll find that your camera is pretty smart...so when you need to...flip the switch and keep on going. I've found that a lot of times the camera's solution pretty close to what I had in mind anyway...and then if I want, I'll add whatever effect I was trying to get in camera, in Photoshop.
Don't let the manual only shooters talk you into never shooting in Auto mode so to speak. It has it's place...especially in changing light conditions like I was shooting in.
As far breaking the mold so to speak, let me recommend a book to you, "Captured by the Light," by David Ziser. (Available from Amazon for around $35...$20 off the cover price.) He's world renowned, and shoots Canon, and a mixture of Canon and Sigma lenses...some L glass, some not. Anyway, it's worth reading. I think you'll get a lot out of the book. He's been shooting high dollar weddings for the last 8 years shooting Jpegs. You have to know what you are doing, but...jpegs work well. So, I guess my suggestion is, don't be afraid to do what you feel is best at the time...but, get the shot....that's the bottom line.
Good luck on your next shoot.
Hope this helps.
I see that you do have an eye for posing...keep after it.
Educate yourself like you'll live forever and live like you'll die tomorrow.
Ed