My thought about the public vote was this: You may have people voting for the worst 9 of the lot plus their own to up their chances of winning. Of course it's all objective, but those who are serious have an idea of what is good and what is not. I wonder if the public voters take as much time studying each shot as the appointed judges who have their reputations on the line. The judges feel pressure; the rest of us do not. We entered and are not impartial. You hate to think the worst about people, but it is a valid point.
For those of you who did thoughtfully vote, good for you! And for those who resisted the urge to vote for themselves....give yourself a pat on the back!
Pat, Pat... but it was hard.
I also thought the same as you, it would be easy to vote for the lousy ones, plus yours. For me, I couldn't. My inner voice would have me miserable in no time.
In regards to voting for the worst 9 and themselves I really do not see a trend in that direction. In fact we saw that 6 choices matched our main judge and the public vote, I would say that is pretty good.
When we have two judges they are accused of being blind because opinions are very different from person to person. Many of you wished to have the ability to be more involved in the process and also have the ability to vote for more than one. This two step process so far seems to be a decent compromise.
Addressing the 24 hour time frame, Everyone knows when the challenge is ending and it was very soon after that when the poll was posted. Posting the results needed to happen at a time when I am able to compile both the start and the end, making it an evening.
I plan on doing this again in the next round and possibly the Mega, so we will have a few rounds of refining the process to see if it should be adopted permanently or not.
In the end it is impossible to please everyone but I will try even when it is much more work on my end this way.
I'm not unhappy with it, just pointing out a potential flaw. I'm still new, but I never thought that the judges were blind; I saw their torment in the process by the comments they made and never questioned their choices. I didn't even realize that things could go badly until I sat down to vote and it occurred to me that I could either be honest or dishonest. The things that make you go "Hmmmm".
I'm not one to be angry or upset over a loss; I just gear up for and look forward to the next one. Move on and learn.
Sean, you will see the trend more than anyone else. If it seems to be working well, then I won't second guess your judgment.
Community judgment
I just thought about another possibility of having the community judgment done:
What about using the star system already existent in the contest gallery?
Everyone who wants to judge an entry will be able to insert some comments
under the image they like and choose 1 to 5 stars to show the range of their
appreciation. At the end, the number of stars can be counted in order to select
the first 10 favorites.
This system will have some advantages:
1. Eliminate the possibility of voting for themselves,
2. Make the judgment based on a more attentive observation of each entry,
3. Let the participants know about the reason of the top favorites selection.
The star system does not have any form of giving a total automatically and would require a substantial amount of manual counting. This star scenario is already in place as a smug community such as daily photos.
Re: Vote for the DSS #57 (Milk) Top Ten public choice.
The star idea is an excellent thought.
As far as skewed voting and objectivity goes, well, I think there's a fair amount of subjectivity in our dss challenge voting because the judging is not blind, and even though judges are discouraged from participating in dailies, they see names on entries. And of course the final vote is by everyone, and names and dailies are part of the mix.
So I think it boils down to this being a friendly, supportive competition, so a little subjectivity is fine.
I'm here to learn, be inspired, and hopefully make some cool shots. DSS has been a great creative outlet for me. So thanks!
I know this - I am in the dailies. I was thinking about the challenges.
All the best,
Because we are using a gallery that allows for anyone to comment and rate using the star system, we are essentially already doing this. We are just not using the stars as part of a voting system, basically because it was never designed to work that way. I am not about to go through each of the comments to count votes, especially when we have a great polling system already.
If it is transparency of who is voting for who that your after we could easily make everyone's vote a public display but I have decided not to implement that feature due to problems with it in the past. It also seems to discourage votes.
Why not disallow any entrants the ability to vote- period!
Then, maybe we can eliminate the "vote for yours and the 9 worst" scenario.
Not an easy thing to "police" and if the voting ever degenerated into the abyss that everyone seems to be afraid of. That will be the day I would recommend stopping the challenges altogether.
Why not disallow any entrants the ability to vote- period!
Then, maybe we can eliminate the "vote for yours and the 9 worst" scenario.
That wouldn't be fair to do. Voting for ones self is a vote that they believe in themselves, and what 1 person might feel is one of the "worst" another person will see it as one of the best because art is in the eyes of the beholder. I like good photographs, but I also look for something out of the ordinary that I haven't seen before in other photos. For me, it's that thing that IS out of the ordinary that makes a photo stand out.
Not an easy thing to "police" and if the voting ever degenerated into the abyss that everyone seems to be afraid of. That will be the day I would recommend stopping the challenges altogether.
well said . For years here at dgrin same old grap lets do it this way . Someone always has a better way ,just as in the public vote you all will see it may differ just a bit from 2 judges but not everyone will be happy .Only one person is every really happy with how it works each challenge D notice they never complain
Comments
Pat, Pat... but it was hard.
I also thought the same as you, it would be easy to vote for the lousy ones, plus yours. For me, I couldn't. My inner voice would have me miserable in no time.
My SmugMug
When we have two judges they are accused of being blind because opinions are very different from person to person. Many of you wished to have the ability to be more involved in the process and also have the ability to vote for more than one. This two step process so far seems to be a decent compromise.
Addressing the 24 hour time frame, Everyone knows when the challenge is ending and it was very soon after that when the poll was posted. Posting the results needed to happen at a time when I am able to compile both the start and the end, making it an evening.
I plan on doing this again in the next round and possibly the Mega, so we will have a few rounds of refining the process to see if it should be adopted permanently or not.
In the end it is impossible to please everyone but I will try even when it is much more work on my end this way.
I'm not one to be angry or upset over a loss; I just gear up for and look forward to the next one. Move on and learn.
Sean, you will see the trend more than anyone else. If it seems to be working well, then I won't second guess your judgment.
If I could tell the story in words, I wouldn't need to lug around a camera. ~Lewis Hine
http://sandizphotos-seascapes.smugmug.com/
I just thought about another possibility of having the community judgment done:
What about using the star system already existent in the contest gallery?
Everyone who wants to judge an entry will be able to insert some comments
under the image they like and choose 1 to 5 stars to show the range of their
appreciation. At the end, the number of stars can be counted in order to select
the first 10 favorites.
This system will have some advantages:
1. Eliminate the possibility of voting for themselves,
2. Make the judgment based on a more attentive observation of each entry,
3. Let the participants know about the reason of the top favorites selection.
What do you think?
TravelwaysPhotos.com ...... Facebook
VegasGreatAttractions.com
Travelways.com
To bad... It was just a thought
I know this - I am in the dailies. I was thinking about the challenges.
All the best,
TravelwaysPhotos.com ...... Facebook
VegasGreatAttractions.com
Travelways.com
The star idea is an excellent thought.
As far as skewed voting and objectivity goes, well, I think there's a fair amount of subjectivity in our dss challenge voting because the judging is not blind, and even though judges are discouraged from participating in dailies, they see names on entries. And of course the final vote is by everyone, and names and dailies are part of the mix.
So I think it boils down to this being a friendly, supportive competition, so a little subjectivity is fine.
I'm here to learn, be inspired, and hopefully make some cool shots. DSS has been a great creative outlet for me. So thanks!
LiflanderPhotography.com
LiflanderPhotography.com
Because we are using a gallery that allows for anyone to comment and rate using the star system, we are essentially already doing this. We are just not using the stars as part of a voting system, basically because it was never designed to work that way. I am not about to go through each of the comments to count votes, especially when we have a great polling system already.
If it is transparency of who is voting for who that your after we could easily make everyone's vote a public display but I have decided not to implement that feature due to problems with it in the past. It also seems to discourage votes.
Then, maybe we can eliminate the "vote for yours and the 9 worst" scenario.
Not an easy thing to "police" and if the voting ever degenerated into the abyss that everyone seems to be afraid of. That will be the day I would recommend stopping the challenges altogether.
That wouldn't be fair to do. Voting for ones self is a vote that they believe in themselves, and what 1 person might feel is one of the "worst" another person will see it as one of the best because art is in the eyes of the beholder. I like good photographs, but I also look for something out of the ordinary that I haven't seen before in other photos. For me, it's that thing that IS out of the ordinary that makes a photo stand out.
Panasonic Lumix 10x DMC-TZ3 :photo
Leica Mega O.I.S./28mm WIDE :smile6
well said . For years here at dgrin same old grap lets do it this way . Someone always has a better way ,just as in the public vote you all will see it may differ just a bit from 2 judges but not everyone will be happy .Only one person is every really happy with how it works each challenge
“PHOTOGRAPHY IS THE ‘JAZZ’ FOR THE EYES…”
http://jwear.smugmug.com/