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My observations about this "Street & PJ" forum
misterb
Banned Posts: 601 Major grins
Maybe it's me but I just don't get the lack of feedback, comments, and general *interest* in these images.
http://www.digitalgrin.com/showthread.php?t=178030
It was kinda hard to shoot in rapidly changing light (peek-a-boo sunlight) and with white structures wreaking havoc on the focus/meter.
Yet- I think I posted up some darn good shots, and others that were excellent- yet nobody has anything to say.
If I scroll down, I see images from others here that are not as *compelling* or even in the same league (image quality wise) yet they get 10-12 responses, cheerleader-style!
:huh
I'm hoping this forum (street & PJ) isn't a situation where your feedback is sadly determined by the "Three P's":
- Popularity
- Post-Count
- Personality
(and I thought the days of the HS Lunch tables were behind me!)
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Don't take it so hard. It is primary day many places and a work day. Maybe many users are just busy... Give it time!
Don
'I was older then, I'm younger than that now' ....
My Blog | Q+ | Moderator, Lightroom Forums | My Amateur Smugmug Stuff | My Blurb book Rust and Whimsy. More Rust , FaceBook .
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http://www.danielkimphotography.com
2&3 look like they have focus issues [may be my AOL] most have background issues that distract. 16 &18 are the best of the shoot #6 your shot makes her mouth look ???? ask her I would bet she would say take that shot down NOW
“PHOTOGRAPHY IS THE ‘JAZZ’ FOR THE EYES…”
http://jwear.smugmug.com/
damn has an "n" in it- putz.
I surmise that lack of feedback will ensure that.
If you can't reel them in with your photography, try insults!
Yep you may be right .I have posted on dgrin for years and what am I most noted for --my terrible spelling but in this cause DAM may work! It is something big that holds back something .In your case ego holding back talent. We use too have a contest each year in wildlife called "the butt shot" I was very good at that but if I ever meet you and get a shot then I will have a sure winner.
“PHOTOGRAPHY IS THE ‘JAZZ’ FOR THE EYES…”
http://jwear.smugmug.com/
lol!
Yeah must of been one of the "P's" he forgot about
My Galleries
Flicker
G+
a) too many images in one post
b) they're all portraits (with the exception of #1) with no relationship to the concept of "street" photography. perhaps you should have posted in "people"
.
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
This was the first insult:
You may be just too dam good for this poor forum and make everyone speechless or jealous.
To be honest, this was my reaction to the post as well. Why isn't this in the People forum? They didn't say 'street photography' to me but not being terribly skilled in this genre, I was hesitant to offer my opinion. I'm sure you'd get the response you crave over there.
I do agree though that there seems to be a certain group of members on the forum who consistently give and get comments to each other. It may seem a bit cliquish but likely it's because they've got more skill and their photos garner more interest because of it. Maybe many, like me, don't feel knowledgeable enough to feel comfortable commenting beyond "I like this one".
That said, it is disheartening to get little to no response to posts especially from the more skilled members who could provide valuable feedback about why photos do or don't work and offer suggestions about what to work on. Been there many many times and will be again.
The lack of feedback, good or bad, results in lack of growth in this genre and in developing the ability to make good, useful comments, loss of interest in the forum and subsequently even less motivation to participate in an active way.
Just my 2 cents.
... I'm still peeling potatoes.
patti hinton photography
Ok about your images, it's been nailed on the head already--the biggest thing that stood out to me were the posed shots which to me are almost going against what "street/pj" is about.
As far as the lack of comments on threads unless you are part of some clique. Maybe you are right. I do notice that I mostly comment on the dgrinners posts who have been here from the start of this forum about a year ago. I feel more comfortable commenting on theirs especially when it's negative. They know that a year ago I didn't know much about photography other than turning the camera on, and now I know a little bit more
I commented on a new dgrinners post a few months ago--the first post knocked my socks off, I mean it blew me away and I couldnt' wait for him to post more images. The second post was much like yours, posed and smiles for the camera, and while good the only thing street about them is that they were standing on pavement, so I told him this and I havent' seen him since. I felt pretty bad about that and so now I'm more cautious about commenting on posts other than the core group (again mostly if it's negative). Then when I do I find myself trying to butter them up so they won't get offended--so it's easier not to comment.
Sometimes images just don't work for me, they just leave me flat, but I still dont' have the skill or knowlege to say exactly why. I noticed on a "challenges" post someone made that comment to you "doesn't work for me" and you went bananas. Well sometimes images just don't work, i've been on the receiving end of that many times.
This post is good in that it's lighting a fire under me to go ahead and comment on everyones photos, regardless of who it is. It's mainly my problem and something I have to get over.
To me this is one of the tougher subforums on dgrin. It's not a feel good lovey-dovey group and that's what I liked about it. I don't mind the negative comments on my photos that's how I learn, but it's tough for me to dish it out to those that don't know me. I shall try and remedy that.
_________
Liz, I think you are one of the fortunate members who actually gets feedback consistently when you post. Part of it may be that you've made it well known that you want brutal feedback but a big part of it is that you have the talent for this that attracts the attention of the more seasoned members and of course, bd. There are a group of photographers that fall into this category from what I've observed. MichSwiss, flyinggina, are some of the others. I think that's where the feeling of clique develops. It seems to be the same members commenting on the same members. I've been here since the beginning of the forum too, don't have the talent you and the others mentioned have, post a fair bit, try to comment as best I can given my limitations with this genre and yet get minimal if any response to the majority of the shots I post. I'm not alone.
I know that we tend to have more emotional attachment to our captures which clouds our perception of them. I've posted plenty of them only to get zero feedback, good or bad. A few get a comment or two. I assume that they are so bad that they aren't worth even bothering to type a "does nothing for me" since the number of views is usually fairly high. After awhile it's hard not to start to feel that there's no point in posting anything at all because it's always the same members getting feedback, there's no opportunity to grow without feedback. I love the genre, would like to develop the skill, gain knowledge by reading comments on others' posts but would still appreciate feedback on my own on what works, what doesn't and why.
... I'm still peeling potatoes.
patti hinton photography
I have mixed reactions to Patti's post. I was ripped to shreds at the start of the Street forum, but I wanted it. I asked for it. Literally. The feedback was brutal and frank, but it helped me learn. Then the comments dried up. I'd post something that wouldn't get any comments for days, if at all. That was the next lesson. Honestly, it caused me a lot of anxiety. At some point though, I just started taking pictures and I post examples way too often. I still want to be ripped into, so assume that any post I make is fair game for full on attack.
Where I fail is critiquing other's work. I comment frequently, but seldom critically. At least brutally. I don't rip in to other's images as I'm still developing and don't have the skills to feedback other than from the gut. Maybe I should just dig in. But it would help if you're new to this forum if there was a lead in to what you'd like in return for sharing your work.
Maybe the end result of this thread is that "Street & PJ" is renamed the "Curmudgeon's Corner"
I've posted very few pictures on the forums here. I love to learn by reading and seeing what other people do with their pictures. That said, if there's a picture worth me making a note about (a recent picture that someone took of some boats in alaska immediately comes to mind), I will. I just looked at your link above and lo' and behold, I have seen your thread.
I don't want to sound rude but it won't come across any other way... your pictures are boring and borderline stalker-esque. There's no hidden punch lines in your pictures. There's no detail worth noting above some guy sitting in a mall eatery peeping women leaving one specific store.
I have a small post count and the pics I have posted have all been commented on (but one, but even I know when I post crap, sometimes it's just to get a reaction). If you want to pretty much guarantee comments, try posting ONE picture in the refinery and see how it gets torn apart. If you get NO comments there, your picture is not worth even commenting on. Back to the drawing board.
Again, I don't want to sound rude but that's my take on your thread and this rant is only reinforcing my an idea in my head that says you didn't put a lot of effort into the shots you took. That says even less for the photog community as a whole.
Just my .02.
-Wally
Hi! I'm Wally: website | blog | facebook | IG | scotchNsniff
Nikon addict. D610, Tok 11-16, Sig 24-35, Nik 24-70/70-200vr
That's what "The refinery" is for. (or so it seems to me).
Hi! I'm Wally: website | blog | facebook | IG | scotchNsniff
Nikon addict. D610, Tok 11-16, Sig 24-35, Nik 24-70/70-200vr
It might be interesting to note the "What I want from the Refinery" sticky. "Street" was opened very shortly afterwards. I wanted, want, feedback. People to talk with about taking meaningful images.
Taking street or candid images won't ever become a reliable source of income except for the rare few, so why do we do it and what drives us to improve?
Hi! I'm Wally: website | blog | facebook | IG | scotchNsniff
Nikon addict. D610, Tok 11-16, Sig 24-35, Nik 24-70/70-200vr
If you want ego-stroking, start a fan-club for yourself.
Well, I've looked at your images, and they are nice, but I didn't see anything excellent, at least not as compared to the rest of the Street/PJ forum. Out of the whole bunch, I'd say that #5 is the only one that stands out to me, and - I can NOT believe I'm actually typing this, somebody check to see if Hell has frozen over - I actually think it might look better in black and white. THUD. That was a bunch of jaws hitting the floor, because I generally despise black and white, and I've said so in the Street/PJ forum many times. Holy cow.
Anyway, look at it in this light - if nobody has anything to say about your pics, it's probably because your pics didn't catch anyone's eye, either in a good or bad way. If they were crap, you'd get a bunch of posts telling you they were crap. If they were awesome, you'd get cheerleader-style responses. If they were risque or controversial, you'd get angry responses. But you got only one, with generally constructive feedback. To me that says that your pics aren't stirring many emotions, one or or the other, which means they're not getting the job done (whatever job it was you were trying to get done with them).
... I'm still peeling potatoes.
patti hinton photography
That's my assessment as well.
I've been on other forums where the feedback is *invaluable* and it doesn't much matter that the topic was race cars or photography- simple participation and a general sense of esprit de corps goes a long way.
Indiegirl did get a response by me:
I wouldn't mind if you had something constructive to say, but to just say "not compelling" without reason accomplishes nothing.
I also said her image entered in #59 (to me) was not compelling either.
followed by:
We are primarily all amateurs here. I'm here to learn and participate, and simply telling someone to "keep shooting" serves no purpose. Even at the firearms range it would be foolish to tell someone to keep shooting if they were way off the mark and making fundamental errors. In short- correct them and they won't have to keep shooting without effect. As far as the "classy" comment- you really don't know me well enough to accurately determine that.
I don't think the qualifies as "going bananas" but, whatever.
None of my images were posed at all, and the smiles you see were a typical response to being on the other side of the lens.
The Romainian girl was just very chatty and extremely nice.. and she wanted to see the image in my LCD. When she saw it- SHE wanted a do-over! Not posed at all.
You concede to the fact that "As far as the lack of comments on threads unless you are part of some clique. Maybe you are right."
There will always be "cliques" and these behaviors are learned in our teens- but it's unfortunately a default response to newcomers and neophyte's and unfamiliar situations. IMHO
The past is history, the futures a mystery.
If I may reply bluntly...
My shots were simply candids.. I had my camera with me and planned on doing some food shopping and had time to kill. I didn't set up the "Juicy Couture" thing beforehand.. it's ironic because my college-aged daughter loves the store and I didn't even realize it was there. There was a rock where I simply sat down and started comparing the two kit lenses.. and decided to shoot a bunch of shots.
"Your pictures are boring and borderline stalker-esque"
As for that comment, how you can find the images of the Romainian and Dominican girl "boring" how much visual stimulation do you need to ellicit a response. Again- unposed and candid. Technically- they were well done- but not perfect.
This "stalker-esque" comment bothers me because you probably don't have 16 years of active law enforcement experience behind you- like I do.
Here's the statute from NYS Penal Law (I've booked many offenders of the following)
Penal Code § 120.45. Stalking in the fourth degree. 1999.
A person is guilty of stalking in the fourth degree when he or she intentionally, and for no legitimate purpose, engages in a course of conduct directed at a specific person, and knows or reasonably should know that such conduct:
- is likely to cause reasonable fear of material harm to the physical health, safety or property of such person, a member of such person's immediate family or a third party with whom such person is acquainted; or
- causes material harm to the mental or emotional health of such person, where such conduct consists of following, telephoning or initiating communication or contact with such person, a member of such person's immediate family or a third party with whom such person is acquainted, and the actor was previously clearly informed to cease that conduct; or
- is likely to cause such person to reasonably fear that his or her employment, business or career is threatened, where such conduct consists of appearing, telephoning or initiating communication or contact at such person's place of employment or business, and the actor was previously clearly informed to cease that conduct.
I guess it really wasn't "stalker-esque"- right?The day I can't go out and take pictures of *any* of gods creatures and creations- that will be the day I move away.
It would only have two members- me and my beagle!