My shots were simply candids.. I had my camera with me and planned on doing some food shopping and had time to kill. I didn't set up the "Juicy Couture" thing beforehand.. it's ironic because my college-aged daughter loves the store and I didn't even realize it was there. There was a rock where I simply sat down and started comparing the two kit lenses.. and decided to shoot a bunch of shots.
"Your pictures are boring and borderline stalker-esque"
As for that comment, how you can find the images of the Romainian and Dominican girl "boring" how much visual stimulation do you need to ellicit a response. Again- unposed and candid. Technically- they were well done- but not perfect.
This "stalker-esque" comment bothers me because you probably don't have 16 years of active law enforcement experience behind you- like I do.
Here's the statute from NYS Penal Law (I've booked many offenders of the following)
Penal Code § 120.45. Stalking in the fourth degree. 1999.
A person is guilty of stalking in the fourth degree when he or she intentionally, and for no legitimate purpose, engages in a course of conduct directed at a specific person, and knows or reasonably should know that such conduct:
is likely to cause reasonable fear of material harm to the physical health, safety or property of such person, a member of such person's immediate family or a third party with whom such person is acquainted; or
causes material harm to the mental or emotional health of such person, where such conduct consists of following, telephoning or initiating communication or contact with such person, a member of such person's immediate family or a third party with whom such person is acquainted, and the actor was previously clearly informed to cease that conduct; or
is likely to cause such person to reasonably fear that his or her employment, business or career is threatened, where such conduct consists of appearing, telephoning or initiating communication or contact at such person's place of employment or business, and the actor was previously clearly informed to cease that conduct.
I guess it really wasn't "stalker-esque"- right?
The day I can't go out and take pictures of *any* of gods creatures and creations- that will be the day I move away.
And you really wonder why no one is replying to your posted photos? I sure as heck won't, not if I'm going to get a multi-paragraph rebuttal and NYS Penal code thrown at me as a response.
And, seriously, other people tell you your pictures are boring. You rebut that they're not. What's the point of providing you feedback if you're just going to tell us we're wrong?
I wouldn't mind if you had something constructive to say, but to just say "not compelling" without reason accomplishes nothing.
I also said her image entered in #59 (to me) was not compelling either.
followed by:
We are primarily all amateurs here. I'm here to learn and participate, and simply telling someone to "keep shooting" serves no purpose. Even at the firearms range it would be foolish to tell someone to keep shooting if they were way off the mark and making fundamental errors. In short- correct them and they won't have to keep shooting without effect. As far as the "classy" comment- you really don't know me well enough to accurately determine that.
I don't think the qualifies as "going bananas" but, whatever.
None of my images were posed at all, and the smiles you see were a typical response to being on the other side of the lens.
The Romainian girl was just very chatty and extremely nice.. and she wanted to see the image in my LCD. When she saw it- SHE wanted a do-over! Not posed at all.
You concede to the fact that "As far as the lack of comments on threads unless you are part of some clique. Maybe you are right."
There will always be "cliques" and these behaviors are learned in our teens- but it's unfortunately a default response to newcomers and neophyte's and unfamiliar situations. IMHO
The past is history, the futures a mystery.
By "going bananas" I mean you were nasty.
Indiegirl said she didn't find your entry compelling (which is a helpful critique in the challenges section because the viewer is the one voting) sometimes there is not much more to say or time to say it.
You have a bit of an attitude and though I thought about posting a reply to your images, your come back to indiegirl "I didn't find your entry terribly compelling either. I guess shooting a guy in a crosswalk would be safe, but it's bland as a rice cake" made me not want to because you are confrontational and I get enough of that crap on the subway rides. I am here on dgrin to learn not to fight.
As for the clique--I was new a year ago too and had some of my images ignored as well. I still do, just go to my last two or three posts in cool shots--nada, nothing, but I didn't have a fit about it.
I already said I would try and comment more, I meant it, however your attitude leads me to think I may not on yours just to save myself some serious aggrevation.
And if I didn't spell somethings right is because I'm typing fast and I"m pissed, I know how much you like to pick on that too.
And you really wonder why no one is replying to your posted photos? I sure as heck won't, not if I'm going to get a multi-paragraph rebuttal and NYS Penal code thrown at me as a response.
And, seriously, other people tell you your pictures are boring. You rebut that they're not. What's the point of providing you feedback if you're just going to tell us we're wrong?
If someone said you images were "stalker-esque" you wouldn't respond?
I don't see them as boring.. so it's just a difference of opinion, thats all.
The Penal Code was just to explain *exactly* what "Stalking" actually is.
Sometimes it's not good to just throw terms around willy-nilly.
misterb, I see a issue here that hasnt been meantioned. What is it that you want to get from your photography? (these arnt questions you need to answear here, just things to ask yourself) What is it about photography that you enjoy and what is it that you want to get out of it?
For me, it is all personal enjoyment. I really dont care what others think about my photography, if it is good or bad, as the only thing that matters is that I am happy with it. I am always trying to improve, but as long as I am happy with my photos, thats what matters to me.
Some people take shots to please others, and thats okay, people do photography for many different reasons, I dont know why you enjoy photography, but I think you need to make it clear to yourself what you want to get from photography, why you do it, and always be thinking of that when you post your photos here.
Maybe others are not inline with what you want, are in a different frame of mind, so there comments come across as harsh, etc.
Whatever your goals are in posting your photos here, they might not fit into what others goals are.
At dgrin, it seems when people just post images without saying much, it is open for critique and whatever they want to say about the images. It seems if that is not what you want, that you have to point the thread in the direction you want by asking questions, etc, making it known what you want from the poeple who respond.
When I want to only post photos and have everyone say nice things about them (no matter what the quality), I show them to friends and family, because I know I wont get that here, or on most photography forums, and wouldnt expect that (that only happens with images that are extremly good, and most of us dont take images like that everyday)
misterb, What is it that you want to get from your photography?
Very good question.
I've always loved photography, but one thing or another always pushed it to the back burners. The Army, kids growing up, work in law enforcement, and life in general.
Now, I have a pretty good chance to immerse myself in something I always loved.. photography. I'm really not looking to pidgeon-hole myself as one "type" of photography... like "macro" or "street", etc.
Rather- I want to dabble in several area's concurrently.
I'm gonna take a simple measure to present what I've shot, which I will coin the term for: "The Olympic Podium" standard. What it means is that I will submit my best THREE images and then ask those who are inclined to post which would get "gold", "silver" and "bronze".
If my pictures are/continue to bore anyone here, or if my temperament and Personality are an issue, please take the simple step and place me on your "ignore list" which can be found in the "You!" link at the top of the screen. Chances are- I don't really want your feedback anyway.
However- if you want to "share & compare" and then learn to grow as photographers- I'd like to embark on that journey. You will find no better and loyal friend once you get to know me. I'm not one to tear into anyones work because it's not something I like doing. I watched "Work of Art" on Bravo and honestly felt bad when they eviserated some of the artists!
I welcome CC, as long as you can relay to me exactly *what* it is that is glaringly wrong or can use improvement. A simple "Me no like!" statement is a waste of electrons and effort to type- serves no purpose.
I have a new camera, so it's also a learning curve- and I'm even missing some prerequisite-items like a good flash and tripod- but I'll make do until I can get what I need.
First, to the 'clique,' some people get all the comments complaint. I've been here since the beginning. I'm the "artist in residence" - not my term :-). And the majority of the time I post I get three, four comments if I'm lucky, and, to be honest, I see that my images get looked at less than those posted by a number of other people. Now I could react to that several ways: I could go off and sulk; I could decide that my work sucks; or I could conclude that traditional street/documentary style just doesn't appeal to allot of people on this list. Well, I'm not going to go off and sulk; I think too much of my own work to buy number 2 - although we all produce mediocre to crappy images from time to time, and we are all lousy judges of our own images; so I'll settle on number 3.
There is still a general belief here that if a photo was taken out of doors, it's a "street photo." Well it's not. A shot of a pretty woman on the street is not a "street photo," it's a shot of a pretty woman - unless it somehow tell us something, or makes us laugh, or makes us cry, or makes us think, or tells us about the human condition.
Numerous times in the past I've made references to the "masters" - male and female, many of whom are dead. And one of those times someone actually said - and I am paraphrasing - 'why do you keep talking about those old farts?' Well, I keep suggesting that people on this list look at the work of Gary Winnogrand, Lee Friedlander, Helen Levitt, Eugene Smith, Eugene Richards, Henri Cartier-Bresson, and on and on, because if we do, we may learn something. If you were learning to paint, you'd spend endless hours looking at the works of great painters. If you want to do street photography, spend endless hours with the great street photographers. As I told the students in this semester's science writing class, if you want to be a good writer, read good writers. Read. Read. And read some more. And I then recommended a number of works of non-fiction and fiction that are worth reading simply because they are so well written, subject matter aside.
I realize that I am guilty of, as a rule, not commenting on photos that don't do anything for me. A photo doesn't have to have succeeded for me to comment on it, but I have to feel that it's at least in the ball park of what I think we're trying to do here. I could get into a big debate about why chatting up a cute girl on the street and taking some pleasant headshots of her isn't street photography, but...
First, to the 'clique,' some people get all the comments complaint. I've been here since the beginning. I'm the "artist in residence" - not my term :-). And the majority of the time I post I get three, four comments if I'm lucky, and, to be honest, I see that my images get looked at less than those posted by a number of other people. Now I could react to that several ways: I could go off and sulk; I could decide that my work sucks; or I could conclude that traditional street/documentary style just doesn't appeal to allot of people on this list. Well, I'm not going to go off and sulk; I think too much of my own work to buy number 2 - although we all produce mediocre to crappy images from time to time, and we are all lousy judges of our own images; so I'll settle on number 3.
There is still a general belief here that if a photo was taken out of doors, it's a "street photo." Well it's not. A shot of a pretty woman on the street is not a "street photo," it's a shot of a pretty woman - unless it somehow tell us something, or makes us laugh, or makes us cry, or makes us think, or tells us about the human condition.
Numerous times in the past I've made references to the "masters" - male and female, many of whom are dead. And one of those times someone actually said - and I am paraphrasing - 'why do you keep talking about those old farts?' Well, I keep suggesting that people on this list look at the work of Gary Winnogrand, Lee Friedlander, Helen Levitt, Eugene Smith, Eugene Richards, Henri Cartier-Bresson, and on and on, because if we do, we may learn something. If you were learning to paint, you'd spend endless hours looking at the works of great painters. If you want to do street photography, spend endless hours with the great street photographers. As I told the students in this semester's science writing class, if you want to be a good writer, read good writers. Read. Read. And read some more. And I then recommended a number of works of non-fiction and fiction that are worth reading simply because they are so well written, subject matter aside.
I realize that I am guilty of, as a rule, not commenting on photos that don't do anything for me. A photo doesn't have to have succeeded for me to comment on it, but I have to feel that it's at least in the ball park of what I think we're trying to do here. I could get into a big debate about why chatting up a cute girl on the street and taking some pleasant headshots of her isn't street photography, but...
I still ask you why do you want feed back from folks here that you have very little respect for ? If I scroll down, I see images from others here that are not as *compelling* or even in the same league (image quality wise) and by the way this was the first insult !!!!!!
Your --? comment above I wish I could spell maybe I could come up with a better word for what you just wrote. It Is why I took the time to call you on your
What you just wrote above[your last post here] makes this look like --thank you all for the feed back and help
Well, I keep suggesting that people on this list look at the work of Gary Winnogrand, Lee Friedlander, Helen Levitt, Eugene Smith, Eugene Richards, Henri Cartier-Bresson, and on and on, because if we do, we may learn something. ...
I remember these Winogrand shots from reading photography books when I was young:
I'm a relative noob here. I feel like my progress in photography is like driving up a mountain road. Just when I think I'm getting near the top, I round the curve and see miles of road ahead. But, that's what I like--the adventure and discovery.
I try to live life and view critiques of my photography with a thick skin and soft heart. I figure even the worst, negative critique has at least the potential for an element of truth. I try to let the inflammatory rhetoric roll of my back and absorb the kernel of truth, if there is one. Being a geek by trade, I know with time I'll probably be able to master the technical, maybe even at a "professional" level. My challenge, I think, is finding the art in the shot--the composition, use of lines, shapes, negative space, the story and such. As suggested, I try and spend as much time studying the great artists, photographers or otherwise, as much as the technical manuals. What do I want my photos to do? One of two things, I think (subject to change without notice)--tell a compelling story or somehow make the soul sing of the viewer.
In the same vein, I figure my critique is about as developed as my photography skills. So, I've written a few critiques only to erase them before posting. At the same time, I'm trying to stretch myself in doing the critique. In forcing myself to write a critique, it forces me to define what it is about the image that is positive and negative. And, I've received some blunt critiques of my critiques, .
I hoped that ramble added a little seasoning to the stew of the discussion without ruining the whole pot.
First, to the 'clique,' some people get all the comments complaint. I've been here since the beginning. I'm the "artist in residence" - not my term :-). And the majority of the time I post I get three, four comments if I'm lucky, and, to be honest, I see that my images get looked at less than those posted by a number of other people. Now I could react to that several ways: I could go off and sulk; I could decide that my work sucks; or I could conclude that traditional street/documentary style just doesn't appeal to allot of people on this list. Well, I'm not going to go off and sulk; I think too much of my own work to buy number 2 - although we all produce mediocre to crappy images from time to time, and we are all lousy judges of our own images; so I'll settle on number 3.
There is still a general belief here that if a photo was taken out of doors, it's a "street photo." Well it's not. A shot of a pretty woman on the street is not a "street photo," it's a shot of a pretty woman - unless it somehow tell us something, or makes us laugh, or makes us cry, or makes us think, or tells us about the human condition.
Numerous times in the past I've made references to the "masters" - male and female, many of whom are dead. And one of those times someone actually said - and I am paraphrasing - 'why do you keep talking about those old farts?' Well, I keep suggesting that people on this list look at the work of Gary Winnogrand, Lee Friedlander, Helen Levitt, Eugene Smith, Eugene Richards, Henri Cartier-Bresson, and on and on, because if we do, we may learn something. If you were learning to paint, you'd spend endless hours looking at the works of great painters. If you want to do street photography, spend endless hours with the great street photographers. As I told the students in this semester's science writing class, if you want to be a good writer, read good writers. Read. Read. And read some more. And I then recommended a number of works of non-fiction and fiction that are worth reading simply because they are so well written, subject matter aside.
I realize that I am guilty of, as a rule, not commenting on photos that don't do anything for me. A photo doesn't have to have succeeded for me to comment on it, but I have to feel that it's at least in the ball park of what I think we're trying to do here. I could get into a big debate about why chatting up a cute girl on the street and taking some pleasant headshots of her isn't street photography, but...
Dang. This was a shot straight to the heart of the matter addressing the actual issue and not just the symptoms. +1 to the bravo
My shots were simply candids.. I had my camera with me and planned on doing some food shopping and had time to kill. I didn't set up the "Juicy Couture" thing beforehand.. it's ironic because my college-aged daughter loves the store and I didn't even realize it was there. There was a rock where I simply sat down and started comparing the two kit lenses.. and decided to shoot a bunch of shots.
"Your pictures are boring and borderline stalker-esque"
As for that comment, how you can find the images of the Romainian and Dominican girl "boring" how much visual stimulation do you need to ellicit a response. Again- unposed and candid. Technically- they were well done- but not perfect.
This "stalker-esque" comment bothers me because you probably don't have 16 years of active law enforcement experience behind you- like I do.
Here's the statute from NYS Penal Law (I've booked many offenders of the following)
Penal Code § 120.45. Stalking in the fourth degree. 1999.
A person is guilty of stalking in the fourth degree when he or she intentionally, and for no legitimate purpose, engages in a course of conduct directed at a specific person, and knows or reasonably should know that such conduct:
is likely to cause reasonable fear of material harm to the physical health, safety or property of such person, a member of such person's immediate family or a third party with whom such person is acquainted; or
causes material harm to the mental or emotional health of such person, where such conduct consists of following, telephoning or initiating communication or contact with such person, a member of such person's immediate family or a third party with whom such person is acquainted, and the actor was previously clearly informed to cease that conduct; or
is likely to cause such person to reasonably fear that his or her employment, business or career is threatened, where such conduct consists of appearing, telephoning or initiating communication or contact at such person's place of employment or business, and the actor was previously clearly informed to cease that conduct.
I guess it really wasn't "stalker-esque"- right?
The day I can't go out and take pictures of *any* of gods creatures and creations- that will be the day I move away.
I'm a relative noob here. I feel like my progress in photography is like driving up a mountain road. Just when I think I'm getting near the top, I round the curve and see miles of road ahead. But, that's what I like--the adventure and discovery.
I try to live life and view critiques of my photography with a thick skin and soft heart. I figure even the worst, negative critique has at least the potential for an element of truth. I try to let the inflammatory rhetoric roll of my back and absorb the kernel of truth, if there is one. Being a geek by trade, I know with time I'll probably be able to master the technical, maybe even at a "professional" level. My challenge, I think, is finding the art in the shot--the composition, use of lines, shapes, negative space, the story and such. As suggested, I try and spend as much time studying the great artists, photographers or otherwise, as much as the technical manuals. What do I want my photos to do? One of two things, I think (subject to change without notice)--tell a compelling story or somehow make the soul sing of the viewer.
In the same vein, I figure my critique is about as developed as my photography skills. So, I've written a few critiques only to erase them before posting. At the same time, I'm trying to stretch myself in doing the critique. In forcing myself to write a critique, it forces me to define what it is about the image that is positive and negative. And, I've received some blunt critiques of my critiques, .
I hoped that ramble added a little seasoning to the stew of the discussion without ruining the whole pot.
Tracker,
Don't erase your C&c, not only is it benefecial to the poster, but you will get a lot out of it too. Once you can put into words why an image doesn't work for you, it will help you as a photographer. I still struggle with the C&C myself.
As to you being a noob and offering up critique, sometimes noobs offer something which the more seasoned people don't pick up on or overlook or you see the photo in a totally different and refreshing way.
Tracker,
Don't erase your C&c, not only is it benefecial to the poster, but you will get a lot out of it too. Once you can put into words why an image doesn't work for you, it will help you as a photographer. I still struggle with the C&C myself.
As to you being a noob and offering up critique, sometimes noobs offer something which the more seasoned people don't pick up on or overlook or you see the photo in a totally different and refreshing way.
I second Liz's observations. I will confess, btw, that I too have typed up a detailed critique then deleted it.
Looking back at some of the photographs I took with my first digital point & shoot 10 years ago, when everything I saw was suddenly new and interesting and, most of all, photo worthy to my eyes, I mourn the loss of enthusiasm and, in a sense, innocence with which I viewed the world around me. I found beauty in lines, color, faces, designs, flowers, clouds, patterns, a street post, a truck driving down the highway - everything. It was a glorious beginning to my journey in photography, a journey that has had many ups and downs since.
I think it is a good thing when people look at our photographs with fresh eyes and then try to write down why they like or don't like what they see. That sort of critique benefits the one expressing it as much, if not more, than the one receiving it.
I don't comment as much as I would like and feel bad that I don't because I believe that commenting is important not just for the forum but for my own growth. Also, I get a lot out of looking at everyone's photographs and at the reactions of others and I know I should give back more.
It is hard to say why something pleases me - often just as hard as saying why something does not. It takes me time - sometimes a lot of time and, as my 70th birthday fast approaches, time is at a premium. Only rarely can I bring myself to toss off a comment and move on (though I do it on some occasions when I am comfortable that I have captured what I like about a picture.) (BTW, my health is fine and I hope to live to 90, but can't count on that!)
One more thought on commenting - the phrase "it doesn't do anything for me" seems to me to be a valid comment and I accept it as a helpful critique. Not everyone loves every photograph. In this forum, we expect to respond with something more than saying "it's a pretty picture." But we need something to respond to: emotion, irony, the wtf factor. Sometimes I see and feel something in a photograph I took that no one else sees - or that not everyone does. That's fine with me. It makes me look harder to see what it is I was responding to and whether my photograph actually captured what I was seeing.
As for being neglected, I've had my share of orphan posts. I feel like an outsider in this forum - a feeling that many if not all of us seem to share - and not at all as though I am part of the "in" crowd. Generally, I am lucky to get 2 or 3 comments on a post. Maybe it is in the nature of what we do - this feeling of isolation - a feeling of being apart in a crowd - that lets us take the pictures that we do. The lack of comments? Probably a different reason for each of us.
Finally, I miss Rutt's participation too. His comments were brief and sometimes brutal. Often I didn't agree. But he was honest in his responses and was not being mean spirited or holier than thou. We don't all have to comment in than manner, but it was good to have someone who did.
Virginia
_______________________________________________ "A photograph is a secret about a secret. The more it tells you, the less you know." Diane Arbus
I can't believe I just read through 10 minutes of this...ha.
I looked at your photos a couple days ago and they did nothing at all for me so I did not comment. I typically don't comment unless photos are exceptional enough to get my attention or someone specifically asks for help or the person is a regular contributing member.
The other times I will comment are for people who have paid their dues in the forum, by commenting on others posts and general participation. If I see people I know don't contribute I never reply to their posts...called paying your dues.
From time to time someone not familiar to me will post excellent work, I always respond to that, love to see new people with talent come to the forums (I say forums in general as I do not normally participate in this particular street and PJ forum).
If you posted pictures that just plain are not that good, which you did, and are not a regular contributing member of the forum....just do the math.
The plain truth is that it is not atypical for others viewing your work to have a far different view of it than you do, which is obviously the case here.
I know this from first hand experience....I post photos all over that place that I think are pretty good...fact is they never quite get the response I expect....can go both ways, better or worse.
Summary. Get better at the photography, contribute on a regular basis and ask for help. You will start getting responses.
(Notice I did not mention bitching when no one responds as being a good way to go .
Comments
And you really wonder why no one is replying to your posted photos? I sure as heck won't, not if I'm going to get a multi-paragraph rebuttal and NYS Penal code thrown at me as a response.
And, seriously, other people tell you your pictures are boring. You rebut that they're not. What's the point of providing you feedback if you're just going to tell us we're wrong?
By "going bananas" I mean you were nasty.
Indiegirl said she didn't find your entry compelling (which is a helpful critique in the challenges section because the viewer is the one voting) sometimes there is not much more to say or time to say it.
You have a bit of an attitude and though I thought about posting a reply to your images, your come back to indiegirl "I didn't find your entry terribly compelling either. I guess shooting a guy in a crosswalk would be safe, but it's bland as a rice cake" made me not want to because you are confrontational and I get enough of that crap on the subway rides. I am here on dgrin to learn not to fight.
As for the clique--I was new a year ago too and had some of my images ignored as well. I still do, just go to my last two or three posts in cool shots--nada, nothing, but I didn't have a fit about it.
I already said I would try and comment more, I meant it, however your attitude leads me to think I may not on yours just to save myself some serious aggrevation.
And if I didn't spell somethings right is because I'm typing fast and I"m pissed, I know how much you like to pick on that too.
_________
If someone said you images were "stalker-esque" you wouldn't respond?
I don't see them as boring.. so it's just a difference of opinion, thats all.
The Penal Code was just to explain *exactly* what "Stalking" actually is.
Sometimes it's not good to just throw terms around willy-nilly.
You don't have to respond- it's your prerogative.
I sent you a PM.
For me, it is all personal enjoyment. I really dont care what others think about my photography, if it is good or bad, as the only thing that matters is that I am happy with it. I am always trying to improve, but as long as I am happy with my photos, thats what matters to me.
Some people take shots to please others, and thats okay, people do photography for many different reasons, I dont know why you enjoy photography, but I think you need to make it clear to yourself what you want to get from photography, why you do it, and always be thinking of that when you post your photos here.
Maybe others are not inline with what you want, are in a different frame of mind, so there comments come across as harsh, etc.
Whatever your goals are in posting your photos here, they might not fit into what others goals are.
At dgrin, it seems when people just post images without saying much, it is open for critique and whatever they want to say about the images. It seems if that is not what you want, that you have to point the thread in the direction you want by asking questions, etc, making it known what you want from the poeple who respond.
When I want to only post photos and have everyone say nice things about them (no matter what the quality), I show them to friends and family, because I know I wont get that here, or on most photography forums, and wouldnt expect that (that only happens with images that are extremly good, and most of us dont take images like that everyday)
Very good question.
I've always loved photography, but one thing or another always pushed it to the back burners. The Army, kids growing up, work in law enforcement, and life in general.
Now, I have a pretty good chance to immerse myself in something I always loved.. photography. I'm really not looking to pidgeon-hole myself as one "type" of photography... like "macro" or "street", etc.
Rather- I want to dabble in several area's concurrently.
I'm gonna take a simple measure to present what I've shot, which I will coin the term for: "The Olympic Podium" standard. What it means is that I will submit my best THREE images and then ask those who are inclined to post which would get "gold", "silver" and "bronze".
If my pictures are/continue to bore anyone here, or if my temperament and Personality are an issue, please take the simple step and place me on your "ignore list" which can be found in the "You!" link at the top of the screen. Chances are- I don't really want your feedback anyway.
However- if you want to "share & compare" and then learn to grow as photographers- I'd like to embark on that journey. You will find no better and loyal friend once you get to know me. I'm not one to tear into anyones work because it's not something I like doing. I watched "Work of Art" on Bravo and honestly felt bad when they eviserated some of the artists!
I welcome CC, as long as you can relay to me exactly *what* it is that is glaringly wrong or can use improvement. A simple "Me no like!" statement is a waste of electrons and effort to type- serves no purpose.
I have a new camera, so it's also a learning curve- and I'm even missing some prerequisite-items like a good flash and tripod- but I'll make do until I can get what I need.
Thanks for the interesting question and feedback.
There is still a general belief here that if a photo was taken out of doors, it's a "street photo." Well it's not. A shot of a pretty woman on the street is not a "street photo," it's a shot of a pretty woman - unless it somehow tell us something, or makes us laugh, or makes us cry, or makes us think, or tells us about the human condition.
Numerous times in the past I've made references to the "masters" - male and female, many of whom are dead. And one of those times someone actually said - and I am paraphrasing - 'why do you keep talking about those old farts?' Well, I keep suggesting that people on this list look at the work of Gary Winnogrand, Lee Friedlander, Helen Levitt, Eugene Smith, Eugene Richards, Henri Cartier-Bresson, and on and on, because if we do, we may learn something. If you were learning to paint, you'd spend endless hours looking at the works of great painters. If you want to do street photography, spend endless hours with the great street photographers. As I told the students in this semester's science writing class, if you want to be a good writer, read good writers. Read. Read. And read some more. And I then recommended a number of works of non-fiction and fiction that are worth reading simply because they are so well written, subject matter aside.
I realize that I am guilty of, as a rule, not commenting on photos that don't do anything for me. A photo doesn't have to have succeeded for me to comment on it, but I have to feel that it's at least in the ball park of what I think we're trying to do here. I could get into a big debate about why chatting up a cute girl on the street and taking some pleasant headshots of her isn't street photography, but...
"He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan
"The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
Bravo!
Your --? comment above I wish I could spell maybe I could come up with a better word for what you just wrote. It Is why I took the time to call you on your
What you just wrote above[your last post here] makes this look like --thank you all for the feed back and help
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I remember these Winogrand shots from reading photography books when I was young:
I will definately look at his work!
I try to live life and view critiques of my photography with a thick skin and soft heart. I figure even the worst, negative critique has at least the potential for an element of truth. I try to let the inflammatory rhetoric roll of my back and absorb the kernel of truth, if there is one. Being a geek by trade, I know with time I'll probably be able to master the technical, maybe even at a "professional" level. My challenge, I think, is finding the art in the shot--the composition, use of lines, shapes, negative space, the story and such. As suggested, I try and spend as much time studying the great artists, photographers or otherwise, as much as the technical manuals. What do I want my photos to do? One of two things, I think (subject to change without notice)--tell a compelling story or somehow make the soul sing of the viewer.
In the same vein, I figure my critique is about as developed as my photography skills. So, I've written a few critiques only to erase them before posting. At the same time, I'm trying to stretch myself in doing the critique. In forcing myself to write a critique, it forces me to define what it is about the image that is positive and negative. And, I've received some blunt critiques of my critiques,
I hoped that ramble added a little seasoning to the stew of the discussion without ruining the whole pot.
Dang. This was a shot straight to the heart of the matter addressing the actual issue and not just the symptoms. +1 to the bravo
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Dear letter of the law,
Please talk to the spirit of the word "-esque".
Sincerely,
-Captain Literal
Hi! I'm Wally: website | blog | facebook | IG | scotchNsniff
Nikon addict. D610, Tok 11-16, Sig 24-35, Nik 24-70/70-200vr
Tracker,
Don't erase your C&c, not only is it benefecial to the poster, but you will get a lot out of it too. Once you can put into words why an image doesn't work for you, it will help you as a photographer. I still struggle with the C&C myself.
As to you being a noob and offering up critique, sometimes noobs offer something which the more seasoned people don't pick up on or overlook or you see the photo in a totally different and refreshing way.
_________
I second Liz's observations. I will confess, btw, that I too have typed up a detailed critique then deleted it.
Looking back at some of the photographs I took with my first digital point & shoot 10 years ago, when everything I saw was suddenly new and interesting and, most of all, photo worthy to my eyes, I mourn the loss of enthusiasm and, in a sense, innocence with which I viewed the world around me. I found beauty in lines, color, faces, designs, flowers, clouds, patterns, a street post, a truck driving down the highway - everything. It was a glorious beginning to my journey in photography, a journey that has had many ups and downs since.
I think it is a good thing when people look at our photographs with fresh eyes and then try to write down why they like or don't like what they see. That sort of critique benefits the one expressing it as much, if not more, than the one receiving it.
I don't comment as much as I would like and feel bad that I don't because I believe that commenting is important not just for the forum but for my own growth. Also, I get a lot out of looking at everyone's photographs and at the reactions of others and I know I should give back more.
It is hard to say why something pleases me - often just as hard as saying why something does not. It takes me time - sometimes a lot of time and, as my 70th birthday fast approaches, time is at a premium. Only rarely can I bring myself to toss off a comment and move on (though I do it on some occasions when I am comfortable that I have captured what I like about a picture.) (BTW, my health is fine and I hope to live to 90, but can't count on that!)
One more thought on commenting - the phrase "it doesn't do anything for me" seems to me to be a valid comment and I accept it as a helpful critique. Not everyone loves every photograph. In this forum, we expect to respond with something more than saying "it's a pretty picture." But we need something to respond to: emotion, irony, the wtf factor. Sometimes I see and feel something in a photograph I took that no one else sees - or that not everyone does. That's fine with me. It makes me look harder to see what it is I was responding to and whether my photograph actually captured what I was seeing.
As for being neglected, I've had my share of orphan posts. I feel like an outsider in this forum - a feeling that many if not all of us seem to share - and not at all as though I am part of the "in" crowd. Generally, I am lucky to get 2 or 3 comments on a post. Maybe it is in the nature of what we do - this feeling of isolation - a feeling of being apart in a crowd - that lets us take the pictures that we do. The lack of comments? Probably a different reason for each of us.
Finally, I miss Rutt's participation too. His comments were brief and sometimes brutal. Often I didn't agree. But he was honest in his responses and was not being mean spirited or holier than thou. We don't all have to comment in than manner, but it was good to have someone who did.
Virginia
"A photograph is a secret about a secret. The more it tells you, the less you know." Diane Arbus
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Ain't that the truth, he has gotten allot of views/comments though
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I looked at your photos a couple days ago and they did nothing at all for me so I did not comment. I typically don't comment unless photos are exceptional enough to get my attention or someone specifically asks for help or the person is a regular contributing member.
The other times I will comment are for people who have paid their dues in the forum, by commenting on others posts and general participation. If I see people I know don't contribute I never reply to their posts...called paying your dues.
From time to time someone not familiar to me will post excellent work, I always respond to that, love to see new people with talent come to the forums (I say forums in general as I do not normally participate in this particular street and PJ forum).
If you posted pictures that just plain are not that good, which you did, and are not a regular contributing member of the forum....just do the math.
The plain truth is that it is not atypical for others viewing your work to have a far different view of it than you do, which is obviously the case here.
I know this from first hand experience....I post photos all over that place that I think are pretty good...fact is they never quite get the response I expect....can go both ways, better or worse.
Summary. Get better at the photography, contribute on a regular basis and ask for help. You will start getting responses.
(Notice I did not mention bitching when no one responds as being a good way to go
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