Our Disgrace........

dragon300zx

[font=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]The remark below SADLY is 100% correct.


"I am absolutely disgusted. After the tsunami our people, even the ones who lost everything, wanted to help the others who were suffering," said Sajeewa Chinthaka, 36, as he watched a cricket match in Colombo, Sri Lanka.

"Not a single tourist caught in the tsunami was mugged. Now with all this happening in the U.S. we can easily see where the civilized part of the world's population is."


And Jesse Jackson is making speeches defending the looters and shooters. He needs to get dropped off down there and left to fend for himself. Just another step towards socialism.
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Harryb

dragon300zx wrote:

[font=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]The remark below SADLY is 100% correct.


"I am absolutely disgusted. After the tsunami our people, even the ones who lost everything, wanted to help the others who were suffering," said Sajeewa Chinthaka, 36, as he watched a cricket match in Colombo, Sri Lanka.

"Not a single tourist caught in the tsunami was mugged. Now with all this happening in the U.S. we can easily see where the civilized part of the world's population is."


And Jesse Jackson is making speeches defending the looters and shooters. He needs to get dropped off down there and left to fend for himself. Just another step to wards socialism.
[/font]

It would seem to me that with everything that has happened the looters are a very small part of the problem. My years in Vietnam taught me that if you put people in uncivilized surroundings they will act in an uncivilized way.

For years Republicans and Democrats turned a blind eye to all the warnings about what would happen to New Orleans if a category 3 or 4 hurricane hit. We were pre-warned of Katrina's arrival for days before it hit. We knew what would happen if the levees broke and when they did we had no ready response for the situation.

Thousands of people now have to live w/o food, water, power, medical care, or leadership from the local, state and federal governments. They have been effectively abandoned to their faith. If I was in New Orleans w/o food or water I would break in a store window to find those supplies.

The real disgrace is not that a few criminals act like criminals when chaos reigns. The disgrace is that our "leaders" did not lead when leadership was desperately needed.

dragon300zx

Harryb wrote:

We were pre-warned of Katrina's arrival for days before it hit. We knew what would happen if the levees broke and when they did we had no ready response for the situation.

If I was in New Orleans w/o food or water I would break in a store window to find those supplies.

The real disgrace is not that a few criminals act like criminals when chaos reigns. The disgrace is that our "leaders" did not lead when leadership was desperately needed.

Hell I would steal food and water too. But big screen tv's, 15 pairs of shoes, guns and ammunition, shooting at evacuation helicopters....

I am no fan of our goverment and they did fall flat on their face on this one. But as you said there were days of warning about this. There was a mandatory evcauation. The eldery, the sick, the little kids. The ones who couldn't evacuate on their own, they aren't the ones shooting at blackhawks, rescue boats, and so on. The ones who could have left, could have found a way out, the young and strong who could be helping get people to safety, save lives, and keep things organized. Their the ones taking pot shots at those who are trying to help. The tourists who knew their was a hurricane coming yet still went down there for a vacation anyways (I was just reading on cnn this morning about a woman who went down their sunday knowing the hurricane was coming but "wasn't going to miss her birthday on bourbon street drinking" now complaining cause she is stranded there). These people are a drain on society every day. They are as much to blame for their situation, and whats going on as the goverment is.

I'm all for helping out and if I could get the time off work (asked but was denied) I'd be on a red cross bus on the way down there to put in two weeks helping out. We are supposed to be the most civilized and advanced country in the world. Yet we can't plan ahead to keep our own people safe, or even stay calm to try and save our own lives when we are in the middle of a crisis.

[font=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva]We can't expect the federal goverment to come to the rescue if the local goverment/law enforcement/people in charge, aren't even going to try and keep things organized.
Tourist Debbie Durso of Washington, Mich., said she asked a police officer for assistance and his response was, "'Go to hell _ it's every man for himself.'"[/font]

Steve Cavigliano

Harryb wrote:

For years Republicans and Democrats turned a blind eye to all the warnings about what would happen to New Orleans if a category 3 or 4 hurricane hit. We were pre-warned of Katrina's arrival for days before it hit. We knew what would happen if the levees broke and when they did we had no ready response for the situation.

Thousands of people now have to live w/o food, water, power, medical care, or leadership from the local, state and federal governments. They have been effectively abandoned to their faith. If I was in New Orleans w/o food or water I would break in a store window to find those supplies.

The real disgrace is not that a few criminals act like criminals when chaos reigns. The disgrace is that our "leaders" did not lead when leadership was desperately needed.

with Harry 200%. I was in the area (Biloxi) in '69 during Hurricane Camille and remember that the Army Corp of Engineers were warning leaders at that time that New Orleans was a disaster waiting to happen because the levee system was old and inadequate. They escaped Camille without major levee breaks, it was no surprise when Katrina proved those predictions true :cry

While the storm could be classified a natural disaster, the tragedy in New Orleans was man made. Or more correctly, we allowed it to happen :uhoh

Heads, at the highest levels, should roll for this "disgrace". The relief efforts would be laughable if they weren't so pathetic Although I have contributed what I could to the relief effort, I know I sure am embarassed to be an American today

Steve

dragon300zx

I don't know about being embarassed to be an american so much as ashamed of the leardership we have elected though the years (after all this isn't just the current administrations failure). I remember reading one quote that "levies that protected beyond the category 3 hurricane just were not cost effective" or something along those lines. When is portecting life not cost effective? If the levies had held up it would not be this bad today.

Levies built to take whatever we can throw at them = $500,000,000.00 (or so on)

Not being cought with your pants down :buttkiss = priceless.

gsgary

What the bloody hell is going on, in the pictures we are seeing over here all they seem to be bothered about are looters and not the people dying. In one shot on are news there are old people in wheel chairs from a home with no food or water a helicopter comes in dump water and food and all the young run off with it were is the army why arn't they distributing it because they are in Iraq, in another a women is frantic with her baby dying and just up the road about 6 policemen are surrounding a store because there is 1 looter inside. Bush promises things around the world but can do nothing on his front door step

Sorry for the rant
Gary

snookman23

levies and other assorted safety devices
Well, since we will be spending $100 billion on an additional 10 ft on top of the New Orleans levees, maybe we should throw in $16 trillion to put the entire city of Los Angeles on a rubber pad to avoid earthquake destruction. We could also encapsulate the entire Midwest in a clear polyethylene bubble for the spring and summer months to eliminate tornado damage for a measly $148 trillion.

Im being facetious, but I have two points.
1. I know Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson (on a side note, any John Street fans out there? ) won't like this, but it is all based on a cost, value analysis. I'm not supporting the Army Corps here, because they have their shortcomings, but you can't protect everything all of the time.
2. The other problem here is a false sense of security. As we saw on 9/11, we ALL take our safety and security for granted. Adding another 10ft. to the levees does not guarantee that they will not be breached by some other storm. There are so many factors that become part of a complicated flood control system like that. Its real easy after the fact to say... the pumps were not substantial enough, the levees weren't constructed correctly, etc.

My question is, the Mayor of New Orleans was complaining about GW Bush and associates not reacting quickly enough, but WHERE was the plan by the city of New Orleans to assist in evacuation of those who could not leave on their own accord?????? Shouldn't the policemen and national guardsmen etc have been evacuating the city BEFORE the hurricane, the was an evacuation order was there not?!?!?!

In closing, I DO feel very badly for the people that could not leave their homes. But what about the stupid rednecks that decided to stay because the last one didn't hit as hard as they said. Have we not learned anything. Why is everyone trying to blame someone here?!?!?!?! A freakin' category 4 hurricane hit the Gulf Coast. We've all seen the videos, thats one heck of a storm.

By the way, I am a civil engineer and a photographer. Yeah, I know they dont mix.

mercphoto

There is blame to spread everywhere with regards to New Orleans.

1) Why did so many people ignore a MANDATORY evacuation notice?

2) Why did so many people decide to stick out a CATEGORY 5 hurricane in a city below sea level?

3) Why was the National Guard not put on immediate notice BEFORE the hurricane hit?

4) Looting for food and water is absolutely acceptable. I would do the very same thing. Looting for televisions and jewelry IS CRIMINAL. Shooting at evacuation helicopters and busses is CRIMINAL. Forcing health care providers to the upper levels of a hospital because of lawlessness and looting in the lower floors is CRIMINAL. I don't care if its a "small percent of the people" because they cause a HUGE PERCENT OF THE PROBLEM.

5) Why didn't anyone put a security force at the Super Dome so that thugs can't cause fights, violence and rapes in the first place?

6) What is taking the State and the Feds so long to bring in troops and TAKE CONTROL THROUGH FORCE and martial law?

fishlips

My question is, the Mayor of New Orleans was complaining about GW Bush and associates not reacting quickly enough, but WHERE was the plan by the city of New Orleans to assist in evacuation of those who could not leave on their own accord?????

Iraq (a lot of them)

snookman23

all things aside
I propose a ban on ALL UNC fans... baby blue.... ickk

fishlips

okay, that lost a lot of the impact i had intended.

Shouldn't the policemen and national guardsmen etc have been evacuating the city BEFORE the hurricane, the was an evacuation order was there not?!?!?!

they were in iraq


sorry for the goof.

mercphoto

fishlips wrote:

Iraq (a lot of them)

I'm sorry, but that is a foolish response I've heard from several people. And yes, its times like this when the liberal left really get my dander up. Not saying you are one of them, but that excuse is coming from the Left a lot.

Nothing about Iraq would have kept the City of New Orleans from developing an evacuation plan. They could have used the public city busses, school busses, the police and fire forces, private citizens as volunteers. They could have asked everyone to fill their vehicles with as many people as they could to evacuate those who could not. There are many ways this could have been done without the national guard. Imagine that, people solving their own problems without the government's help and hand-holding. Will miracles never cease.

Blaming New Orleans on the Iraq War isn't reality, its a political jab, pure and simple.

snookman23

evacuation
Total evacuation would have been utterly impossible, but was there ANY plan other than "all those with cars, drive, all those without.... ummm"

BTW, just kidding about UNC

on a side note, how about a reality show with Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Don King and George W... " I positively speakify that I would utterly and postifomatically watch any real to life television show with the President of the YOU-NIIITED STAYYYTES"

dragon300zx

[font=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva] Russia, Japan, Canada, France, Honduras, Germany, Venezuela, Jamaica, Australia, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Greece, Hungary, Colombia, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Mexico, China, South Korea, Israel, the United Arab Emirates, NATO and the Organization of American States

Have all offered help. Will we be smart and take it or be smug (no relation to our parent site) and shrug it off? Right now there is a ship on the way from the dutch goverment with a diving platoon, navy vessel, and dyke inspection team (heard from several dutch friends on another forum).

We always complain about helping the rest of the world but there are alot of countries offering to step up and help us. Guess we have to wait and see if it happens, or if we even hear about it if it does.
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mercphoto

snookman23 wrote:

Total evacuation would have been utterly impossible, but was there ANY plan other than "all those with cars, drive, all those without.... ummm"

Total evacuation is impossible, correct. However, significantly more COULD have evacuated themself but did not. That just makes the problem worse -- the more who stay behind make the problem worse after the storm. And was there any plan? No, that IS part of the problem. Equally part of the problem is that people did not take it upon themself to help out either. I'm sure not every car or bus that left New Orleands before the storm was full of people in every available seat.

NOT EVERYTHING REQUIRES GOV'T INTERVENTION!!!! THAT IS WHAT DRIVES ME UP THE WALL ABOUT THE LEFT IN THIS NATION! The gov't didn't do this, the gov't didn't do that. Well, yes, that is correct. But gimony cripes, people were told to leave, and a very large number of people who COULD have left didn't! I'm sorry, but they share a big part of the burden of the blame of what is going on. Personal choice has consequences, it just so happens that the consequence of this particular choice was rather high. But it doesn't change the fact that a large number of people in trouble right now are in trouble as a direct result of a conscious choice they made.

Hopefully people will learn from this for the next disaster.

colourbox

mercphoto wrote:

5) Why didn't anyone put a security force at the Super Dome so that thugs can't cause fights, violence and rapes in the first place?

6) What is taking the State and the Feds so long to bring in troops and TAKE CONTROL THROUGH FORCE and martial law?

5) I understand that there are several hundred security patrolling the Superdome. But a few hundred vs. tens of thousands, well, there's the math.

6) Early on, you couldn't drive in anything through the water that would carry enough troops to make a difference. But by now, the point is very well taken.

snookman23

dragon300zx wrote:

[font=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva] Russia, Japan, Canada, France, Honduras, Germany, Venezuela, Jamaica, Australia, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Greece, Hungary, Colombia, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Mexico, China, South Korea, Israel, the United Arab Emirates, NATO and the Organization of American States

Out of curiosity, where did you get that information from?[/font]

dragon300zx

bloomberg.com, cnn.com has a smaller list, Rueters, etc.

" France Steps Up

France has 35 disaster-relief workers in the Caribbean islands of Martinique and Guadeloupe ready to leave for the U.S. the minute they are asked, Denis Simonneau, deputy spokesman for the French Foreign Ministry, said today. Another relief crew of 60 could be sent from mainland France ``very quickly,'' he said.

Simonneau said France also has 600 tents, 1,000 camp beds, 60 generators, and three portable water-treatment plants ready to be shipped from Martinique. In addition, two planes, two naval ships and a hospital ship are standing ready in the Caribbean, he said.

Nathalie Loiseau, a spokeswoman at the French embassy in Washington, said France made its offer yesterday and is awaiting a response.

``We weren't expecting a response within hours,'' Loiseau said. ``There's an inter-agency committee that meets every day, and they will examine the offers and decide which ones conform to what they need and what the U.S. have the means to accept.''"

mercphoto

dragon300zx wrote:

We always complain about helping the rest of the world but there are alot of countries offering to step up and help us. Guess we have to wait and see if it happens, or if we even hear about it if it does.

We'll take the help, I have no doubt about that. We took help from the Canadians after 9/11, as an example.

What irritates me is the United States was the largest provider of help after the Tsunami hit (when you factor in ALL types of assistance, such as government, private giving, the high cost of the military assistance from aircraft carriers and choppers flying in supplies, etc.), and yet that part of the world didn't thank us, and now those militants are praising Katrina. Now that is worth complaining about.

dragon300zx

mercphoto wrote:

We'll take the help, I have no doubt about that. We took help from the Canadians after 9/11, as an example.

What irritates me is the United States was the largest provider of help after the Tsunami hit (when you factor in ALL types of assistance, such as government, private giving, the high cost of the military assistance from aircraft carriers and choppers flying in supplies, etc.), and yet that part of the world didn't thank us, and now those militants are praising Katrina. Now that is worth complaining about.

Several of those goverments have already made donations to katrina relief funds already.

Sri Lankan President Chandrika Kumaratunga said she and her fellow citizens felt solidarity with those affected.

"Having experienced the fury of nature ourselves during the December 26 tsunami, the people of Sri Lanka and I fully empathize with you at this hour of national grief," she said in a message to the U.S.

And while the small island nation is still recovering from the tsunami disaster, it also pledged $25,000 to the American Red Cross, the AP reported.

Harryb

mercphoto wrote:

Total evacuation is impossible, correct. However, significantly more COULD have evacuated themself but did not. That just makes the problem worse -- the more who stay behind make the problem worse after the storm. And was there any plan? No, that IS part of the problem. Equally part of the problem is that people did not take it upon themself to help out either. I'm sure not every car or bus that left New Orleands before the storm was full of people in every available seat.

NOT EVERYTHING REQUIRES GOV'T INTERVENTION!!!! THAT IS WHAT DRIVES ME UP THE WALL ABOUT THE LEFT IN THIS NATION! The gov't didn't do this, the gov't didn't do that. Well, yes, that is correct. But gimony cripes, people were told to leave, and a very large number of people who COULD have left didn't! I'm sorry, but they share a big part of the burden of the blame of what is going on. Personal choice has consequences, it just so happens that the consequence of this particular choice was rather high. But it doesn't change the fact that a large number of people in trouble right now are in trouble as a direct result of a conscious choice they made.

Hopefully people will learn from this for the next disaster.

New Orleans does not have an effective system of mass transport. Many people did not have cars so they couldn't leave. There were many others who were not fit to travel. The hospitals weren't evacuated. Then you have many folks who hope it won't be as bad as predicted (sort of like our "leaders"). Its not easy to leave your home and all you own. Everytime there is a hurricane you have a sizeable number of folks who don't evacuate. That's too be expected.

A DISASTER LIKE KATRINA NEEDS A FEDERAL RESPONSE. Its beyond the scope of local governments to deal with. Thats why the Prez is enpowered to declare a national emergency. You need a unified response and not the fragmented disorganized non-response we have seen before today. I may be a big silly here but if we can send a man to the moon and if we can invade Iraq I don't see getting food, water and medical treatment to the poor folks at the NO Convention Center to be that impossible.

Of course we can say its their own fault and they deserve what they are getting. Look at them expecting a government handout!!! What nerve expecting the government to respond to what may be the largest natural disaster in our history. As punishment they should be forced to read "Atlas Shrugged".

Anson

this CNN interview will blow you away
http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=158007&postcount=17

colourbox

mercphoto wrote:

and yet that part of the world didn't thank us, and now those militants are praising Katrina. Now that is worth complaining about.

There were no thanks at all at any level? And these militants...are the majority? I find it hard to imagine that most of those men, women, elderly, and children were stubbornly ungrateful and later went to the warehouse to re-arm...

Ann McRae

I know that Canada has offered the same emergency response troops and equipment (large, mobile water purification systems, medical troops, etc.)that we sent to the Tsunami, as well as several different search and rescue troops from across the country. We have offered medicines (and apparantly being taken up on that one). I get the sense that


1. No one with in the organizational structure of the US Administration is sure yet of how they want this implemented


and

2. No one from the same organizations on down to the average citizen really expected or was prepared to be able to deal with thousands of homeless for many, many days. Even still, measures to deal with the fall out are reactionary - I've heard reports that the Astrodome cannot continue to accept the remaining people in the Superdome - surely the math for this could have been done ahead. The bus drivers are houred out and cannot conitnue moving the refugees - that one doesn't seem logistically impossible either. Of course, as I sit here in the frozen north (taxed to death but NBL to be hit by any natural disasters) it is easy for me to observe and comment. I am not there dealing with what must be horrible pressure.

If you were told to evacuate for such a disaster, would you have taken a days supply of goods, a week, a month? Some of these folks will be homeless for many, many months. How will they deal with that? I do not know how I would have prepared myself previously, but I now expect I would be better prepared for having watched this one.


Who would ever have thought we would be talking about refugee camps on US soil? My deepest sympathies to all.

ann

mercphoto

Harryb wrote:

Of course we can say its their own fault and they deserve what they are getting. Look at them expecting a government handout!!! What nerve expecting the government to respond to what may be the largest natural disaster in our history. As punishment they should be forced to read "Atlas Shrugged".

Quite possibly, maybe everyone should read that book.

You liked to twist my words, Harry. I never said everyone could evacuate. I said those that could and chose not to are making the problem worse for those who could not. Yes, not everyone could get out of dodge, for a variety of reasons. But a large number of those who are still there had the ability and chose not to. That is causing the problem to be worse than it needed to be.

I have no problem helping those who could not get out of dodge. But those who could, and blame only the government and refuse to accept the fact that they are in a life-threatening situation out of their own voluntary choice is a recipe for making that same mistake all over again. People need to own up to when they make a poor choice, otherwise mistakes will happen again.

I am not saying "don't help these people". What I am saying is "they need to take part of the blame for the position that they are in". This problem did not need to be as bad as it has become. I'm sorry for this, I do realize it is politically incorrect for people to take responsibility for their own actions. Maybe as punishment I should be forced to read the writings of Karl Marx.

fishlips

mercphoto wrote:

NOT EVERYTHING REQUIRES GOV'T INTERVENTION!!!! THAT IS WHAT DRIVES ME UP THE WALL ABOUT THE LEFT IN THIS NATION! The gov't didn't do this, the gov't didn't do that. Well, yes, that is correct. But gimony cripes, people were told to leave, and a very large number of people who COULD have left didn't! I'm sorry, but they share a big part of the burden of the blame of what is going on. Personal choice has consequences, it just so happens that the consequence of this particular choice was rather high. But it doesn't change the fact that a large number of people in trouble right now are in trouble as a direct result of a conscious choice they made.

Hopefully people will learn from this for the next disaster.

ok, i was going to let this go…but

this is what drives me crazy about the conservative right. "not saying your are one of them…"

conservatives sit in their dry houses, drinking there wine, watching all this unfold on the tv and they see it all in black and white terms, not race, just, this way or that way, no in between. conservatives think to themselves, i would have left, why the hell didn't they? they didn't do what they were asked, so f%*k 'em. most of the people left there are the poorest of the poor. most conservatives don't know too many people that poor, so they have no idea what it is like to live that way and can't begin to answer that question.

they didn't help themselves get out of harms way, why should the government help? BEACAUSE IT'S WHAT AMERICA DOES! WE HELP THOSE WHO CAN'T HELP THEMSELVES. UNLESS THEY ARE POOR AND LIVE HERE.

i'm done.

Anson

Dear Bill Jurasz
re: your post! :jawdrop mindboggling!

-have you ever had to live pay check to pay check?
-do you have the foggiest clue as to the poverty rate in the South (New Orleans)?
-where was Gov't assistance to organize transportation for the poverty stricken elderly??
-what about the poorest of the poor who did not have a car, money for a full tank of gas, or even the cash for a simple bus ride out of town (not that there would have been enough private sector bus's to do the job!)

Bill...perhaps it is time folks like yourself, put down your camera or golf club and do some reading on the current state of affairs in this country! ( current Government included)

Misguided and misinformed folks like yourself blow me away!

SnapTheFrog

It's only my opinion, but I think it's too soon for fingers to be pointing. Historicaly, it's always the same. The truth comes out after all the dust has settled.

When the Titanic went down, the media was reporting that all were lost, none were lost, there was no truth to it hitting the ice berg, etc.

There's a lot of things we don't know and can't know. But sure, we can debate them, but to what end?
Yes, the levies could have been built better, but who can say they would have held up? Here in California, a lot of buildings that were earthquake rated went down like tinker toys.

Why didn't the National Guard do this, or patrol that? Again, don't know. Think about the last time you tried to get five of your friends to show up at the same place for dinner and on time? Now picture trying to do that for thousands.

I'm not making excuses or defending anyone, but what good will it do us to vent our anger and frustration when we don't know the entire truth? I'm sure they'll be plenty of blame to go around but in the mean time, yet, blaming doesn't fix the problem.


This isn't finger pointing, it's being responsible for your own decisions:
The only thing I know for a fact is that people were warned of the coming storm. There was a mandatory evacuation order given. That's the strongest warning the government can issue. They aren't going to kick in your door and drag you out. They figure, and rightly so, you're an adult, you've been warned, if you decide to stay then accept the outcome.

Those that chose to stay gambled with their and their familys lives. The storm came in and wreaked havoc on them. Now they're standing in front of news cameras condeming the government for not being there.

Of course there are exceptions. There are always exceptions.

And of course, the media is not there to do anything other than get ratings. This may sound like a grand exeration, but time and again, the media has demonstrated how they capitalize on fear. It wasn't bad enough that the storm took lives, but now reports are filled with shootings at helecopters. In fact, it happened one time. But the media blew it so far out of porportion, that the Governor stopped all rescue attempts by helo and boat. Once the facts were know, rescue operations were restarted. How many lives were lost because the of the media? We'll never know.

So yes, it's easy to find someone to pin the donkey tail on. I just caught myself doing it. Now I'm all pissed off and it's for nothing. I can't change what has already happened. Instead I'll try to change what will happen.

Good luck and God bless

dragon300zx

fishlips wrote:

they didn't help themselves get out of harms way, why should the government help? BEACAUSE IT'S WHAT AMERICA DOES! WE HELP THOSE WHO CAN'T HELP THEMSELVES. UNLESS THEY ARE POOR AND LIVE HERE.

i'm done.

To me the point is more that they didn't leave for whatever reason and now they are in this situation, rather than trying to make the best of it, they are making it worse.. It sucks, but america is trying to help them. All they have to do is keep it together, and help us help them. The coniditions there suck but that is not excuse for alot of the things that people down there are doing. Should we help, Yes. Should they sit there and expect us to solve there every problem, No. The first bus to the asto dome was a group that had organized themselves, found a bus, and did what they had to do. They didn't loot gun stores and start shooting at people trying to help them. They have a problem with no drinking water. Yet they are surrounded by tons of water. It wouldn't be too complicated to setup a system to do basic water filtration and boil it to make it drinkable. There is a problem with dead bodies everywhere. Ok so you organize and people move the bodies into a central location so they aren't strewn everywhere for the children to have to stare at constantly. They need to (I can't beleive I'm saying this) as the saying goes "Cowboy Up" and "take ownership" (can you tell I have sat through coutnless corporate meetings) of the situation. Yeah the response hasn't been as fast as it could have been but it was never going to be super fast. Like one of the generals said, "If you ever have 20,000 people come to supper, you know what I'm talking about," the general said. "If it was easy, it would have been done already." Not taking into consideration that only certain vehicles can even make it through the street there with the flooding and debris. It's a huge logistics nightmare that is only made even worse by the refugee's own actions.

mercphoto

Anson wrote:

-have you ever had to live pay check to pay check?

Yes. And I made decisions in my life to make that situation change. I also know a lot of people living paycheck to paycheck who refuse to own up to why that is, or to make the changes that are in their control to get themselves out of that situation. Its just too easy to blame other people.

-do you have the foggiest clue as to the poverty rate in the South (New Orleans)?

Yes. I've seen it first hand.

-where was Gov't assistance to organize transportation for the poverty stricken elderly??
-what about the poorest of the poor who did not have a car, money for a full tank of gas, or even the cash for a simple bus ride out of town (not that there would have been enough private sector bus's to do the job!)

As I have said MANY MANY TIMES, yes I know not everyone had the ability to evacuate. What I have said MANY MANY TIMES is that who could but chose not to made a poor choice. That choice has made matters worse than it needed to be. That is not refutable. Its also not cold-hearted to say. Its the simple truth.

Bill...perhaps it is time folks like yourself, to put down your camera or golf club and do some reading on the current state of affairs in this country! ( current Government included)

Misguided and misinformed folks like yourself blow me away!

Please, please please re-read what I actually wrote rather than what you think I wrote or rather what you hope I wrote. I explicitly said I am not saying we shouldn't help these people. What I am saying is that if people do not live up to the consequences of the choices they make in life they are not doing themselves any favors.

Its as simple as that.

By the way, I don't play golf. Nice of you to be that prejudiced though.

dragon300zx

:Public Service Announcment:

Let's just all remember that we all have our rights to our own opinions, and to voice them. Even if we don't agree. And for that matter no one here has said something that wasn't a valid point, that was right or wrong. We all get along pretty good so let's not let the goverment's disgrace become ours.

I'm very much an information freak and seek to know as many points of view and everything thats going on as I can which is why I made the original post. In some ways this disaster is just going to prove what a strong and caring country we are, and in others it is disgracing us and showing us for the first time what the rest of the world can feel like at times, as well as how we look to them from their eyes.