Quite possibly, maybe everyone should read that book.
You liked to twist my words, Harry. I never said everyone could evacuate. I said those that could and chose not to are making the problem worse for those who could not. Yes, not everyone could get out of dodge, for a variety of reasons. But a large number of those who are still there had the ability and chose not to. That is causing the problem to be worse than it needed to be.
Of course they are making the problem worse. If they had left they wouldn't need to be rescued now. Accepting that fact is kind of meaningless. In every emergency there are those who chosse correctly and those who make the wrong choice. Last year I choose to ride out the hurricanes in my neck of the woods. My friends who evacuated had a much rougher time than I did. I remember folks who went to Daytona to escape the storm and found out that the storm had changed course and was headed for Daytona.
I have no problem helping those who could not get out of dodge. But those who could, and blame only the government and refuse to accept the fact that they are in a life-threatening situation out of their own voluntary choice is a recipe for making that same mistake all over again. People need to own up to when they make a poor choice, otherwise mistakes will happen again.
Sorry but you are really off the mark here. People will look at their choices and many will realize that they goofed. The issue here is not personal responsibility but the inability of the Federal government to effectively coordinate an effective response to the situation. This is a federal responsibility not an individual responibility. The response is inadequate and people are dying because of this failure of leadership.
I am not saying "don't help these people". What I am saying is "they need to take part of the blame for the position that they are in". This problem did not need to be as bad as it has become. I'm sorry for this, I do realize it is politically incorrect for people to take responsibility for their own actions. Maybe as punishment I should be forced to read the writings of Karl Marx.
Sorry but the failure to have an effective plan to one: prevent or lessen the impact of what happened; two to evacuate the affected areas; and three to respond to an event that was predicted and we knew could very likely happen are not the responsibility of the individual citizens of the affected areas. I don't give a hoot if Joe Smith was an idiot and didn't evacuate. Thats an issue for him to resolve. I do give a damn that we are unable to respond to the situation effectively. The simple fact is that we failed this test. We have to look at what happened and make sure that it never happens again. Its not liberalism, its not conservatism, its just plain old common sense.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
we don't get a lot of these threads here so i'll be brief:
1) keep it civil
2) no personal attacks - if you don't like what a poster's saying then find a way to rebut *without* getting personal.
3) see #s 1 and 2
Thanks for your clarification on your initial post, although not necessary, as your message came across loud and clear on your first attempt!
As for golf, great game, good for the head and the heart.
I am now 49 and picked the game up quite late, as I was in my late teens before experiencing my first 18 holes.
You should give it a go, as it is quite enjoyable.
Harry, I'll be real brief here and then leave this thread. You only want to blame the government, and place none of the blame on the individuals who made the poor choice to stick around. I'm blaming all parties, because frankly blame does belong everywhere. The fact that you see zero personal responsibility in all this is distressing. I don't know what share of the blame should be assigned to personal responsibilty, but it certainly isn't zero.
Harry, I'll be real brief here and then leave this thread. You only want to blame the government, and place none of the blame on the individuals who made the poor choice to stick around. I'm blaming all parties, because frankly blame does belong everywhere. The fact that you see zero personal responsibility in all this is distressing. I don't know what share of the blame should be assigned to personal responsibilty, but it certainly isn't zero.
Thats because the government is responsible to me as a citizen of this country. Individuals have to take responsibility for themselves and are not answerable to me.
I don't see what the purpose of asking if the folks at the convention center are responsible for being there. The fact is that they are there. The fact is they need help. Even the Prez says the response hasn't been adequate. I blame our leaders and agencies for the inadequate response. We need to look at what happened and why we failed. Saying that the folks who didn't evacuate are partly to blame does nothing to resolve the fact that the agencies who were responsible for responding failed. Thats the issue that has to be addressed once we get past this tragedy. Thats the issue that concerns me as a citizen and a voter.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
There is blame to spread everywhere with regards to New Orleans.
3) Why was the National Guard not put on immediate notice BEFORE the hurricane hit?
4) Looting for food and water is absolutely acceptable. I would do the very same thing. Looting for televisions and jewelry IS CRIMINAL. Shooting at evacuation helicopters and busses is CRIMINAL. Forcing health care providers to the upper levels of a hospital because of lawlessness and looting in the lower floors is CRIMINAL. I don't care if its a "small percent of the people" because they cause a HUGE PERCENT OF THE PROBLEM.
5) Why didn't anyone put a security force at the Super Dome so that thugs can't cause fights, violence and rapes in the first place?
6) What is taking the State and the Feds so long to bring in troops and TAKE CONTROL THROUGH FORCE and martial law?
Martal Law? I really doubt that. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not the most informed person when it comes to politics and so forth but I really can't see Martial Law being put into effect. I think it should have been put into effect before this struck to force people to evacuate, and if not then now to try to protect the people that are stuck there, regardless of why they stayed. But martial law would prove that we failed, that the system didn't work.
National guard and the military, they are spread so thin across the world, especially in Iraq that we just don't have the human resources to pull off such an undertaking at the moment. The Reserves near me in North Riverside IL just got deployed to Iraq, 2000 people that could have been used in this effort. But no, they were sent overseas. my friend in Ft Brag is being delployed to New Orleans but it seems to be too little too late.
I don't think now is the time to blame anyone, there will be plenty of time for that later. Now is the time to prove me wrong Pres Bush and other head officials, prove that you can take care of your own people, pull troops out of Iraq if they are needed, declare martial law, do something.
I just read this article on CNN and I just about burst into tears. I just don't have any more word to describe what I feel right now.
Katrina hit Florida on Saturday and the Gulf on Sunday and land on Monday.
Monday - President Bush is at a fund raiser in Orange County, CA
Monday - Reverend Phelps blames the hurricane on gays.
Monday - Ralph Reed (Christian Coalition) blames it on abortionists.
Tuesday - President Bush is at a fund raiser in San Diego, CA
Wednesday - President Bush is golfing in Arizona
Wednesday - President Bush cuts his vacation short (after 5 weeks???)
Wednesday - Secretary Rice is shopping in NYC. Attends the theater.
Thursday - In response to gasoline prices, President Bush tels the nation "...it's to be expected..." rather than issue warnings against price gouging.
Thursday - House Speaker Hastert says "New Orleans doesn't deserve to be saved"
Friday - Congress votes on $10 billion aid package - absent from vote...? Speaker Hastert who is at a fund raiser.
Friday - VP Cheney is still on vacation.
2002 & 2003 & 2004 - President Bush cuts budget for Army Corp of Engineer reconstruction program of gulf port levies.
2003 & 2004 - President Bush cuts FEMA Disaster Relief Budget
2002 & 2003 & 2004 & 2005 - Government pours $200 billion+ into Iraq... $90 billion missing and unaccounted for. $17 million+ paid to Halliburton in No-bid contracts.
I swore that I was not going to get involved in this thread but, what the hell.
You can point fingers and blame whoever you want to at this point, I really don't care, it is doing nothing to solve THIS problem. We'll have plenty of time to argue, point fingers and apply what we have learned to help protect american lives in the future once the dust has settled.
What we need to do is see what WE can do to help those in need RIGHT NOW.
You don't have to donate a large amount of money or even give more than you can afford, but give a couple bucks if you can afford it and let's work the problem.
My dad is a Red Cross volunteer and leaves tomorrow to see what he can do to help the situation, he has participated in every Flood, earthquake, hurricane for the last 15 years. I have often been concerned for his safety when he goes to help but this is the first time I have actually asked him not to go because I worried about his personal safety from the people he goes out of his way to try and help. Yet he leaves tomorrow morning to go see what he can do to help.
I think we can all learn a lesson from his actions. We have no friends or family in the area. But he told me last night, they're Americans.. we're all family.
I swore that I was not going to get involved in this thread but, what the hell.
You can point fingers and blame whoever you want to at this point, I really don't care, it is doing nothing to solve THIS problem. We'll have plenty of time to argue, point fingers and apply what we have learned to help protect american lives in the future once the dust has settled.
What we need to do is see what WE can do to help those in need RIGHT NOW.
You don't have to donate a large amount of money or even give more than you can afford, but give a couple bucks if you can afford it and let's work the problem.
My dad is a Red Cross volunteer and leaves tomorrow to see what he can do to help the situation, he has participated in every Flood, earthquake, hurricane for the last 15 years. I have often been concerned for his safety when he goes to help but this is the first time I have actually asked him not to go because I worried about his personal safety from the people he goes out of his way to try and help. Yet he leaves tomorrow morning to go see what he can do to help.
I think we can all learn a lesson from his actions. We have no friends or family in the area. But he told me last night, they're Americans.. we're all family.
Ed
Ed - you're absolutely right. Maybe we can change the timber of this thread by displaying what has been done and what more can be done.
I started an employee donation campaign at work and we have collected $9500 in 2.5 days and with matching funds that equals 19000 and growing. I also have sheparded a blood donation campaign and 50 employees have already donated.
The past 2 evenings I have shown up at Red Cross collection sites (with water and snacks) and helped out. I'm not an official RC volunteer so I couldn't handle money so I helped clean up and break down boxes and bundled donated goods.
I am really worried from what i am seeing on TV most of the people that are in trouble are black i hope it does not have anything to do with the colour of skin
Gary
Ed - you're absolutely right. Maybe we can change the timber of this thread by displaying what has been done and what more can be done.
I started an employee donation campaign at work and we have collected $9500 in 2.5 days and with matching funds that equals 19000 and growing. I also have sheparded a blood donation campaign and 50 employees have already donated.
The past 2 evenings I have shown up at Red Cross collection sites (with water and snacks) and helped out. I'm not an official RC volunteer so I couldn't handle money so I helped clean up and break down boxes and bundled donated goods.
Why arn't people coming in from the nearest towns and Cities with cars vans buses lorries and helping the people of New Orleans i am getting very upset her in the Uk watching what is happening please help the people of New Orleans
Well, since we will be spending $100 billion on an additional 10 ft on top of the New Orleans levees, maybe we should throw in $16 trillion to put the entire city of Los Angeles on a rubber pad to avoid earthquake destruction. We could also encapsulate the entire Midwest in a clear polyethylene bubble for the spring and summer months to eliminate tornado damage for a measly $148 trillion.
Im being facetious, but I have two points.
1. I know Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson (on a side note, any John Street fans out there? ) won't like this, but it is all based on a cost, value analysis. I'm not supporting the Army Corps here, because they have their shortcomings, but you can't protect everything all of the time.
2. The other problem here is a false sense of security. As we saw on 9/11, we ALL take our safety and security for granted. Adding another 10ft. to the levees does not guarantee that they will not be breached by some other storm. There are so many factors that become part of a complicated flood control system like that. Its real easy after the fact to say... the pumps were not substantial enough, the levees weren't constructed correctly, etc.
My question is, the Mayor of New Orleans was complaining about GW Bush and associates not reacting quickly enough, but WHERE was the plan by the city of New Orleans to assist in evacuation of those who could not leave on their own accord?????? Shouldn't the policemen and national guardsmen etc have been evacuating the city BEFORE the hurricane, the was an evacuation order was there not?!?!?!
In closing, I DO feel very badly for the people that could not leave their homes. But what about the stupid rednecks that decided to stay because the last one didn't hit as hard as they said. Have we not learned anything. Why is everyone trying to blame someone here?!?!?!?! A freakin' category 4 hurricane hit the Gulf Coast. We've all seen the videos, thats one heck of a storm.
By the way, I am a civil engineer and a photographer. Yeah, I know they dont mix.
Civil Engineer and photographer here too...and I agree with the cost/benifit analysis. It's how everything is designed in these circumstances....it's about risk = probability of occurance and severity of event. That's how engineers determine how much is enough.
The problems in New Orleans are directly related to
1) A city which shouldn't exist in the first place - It's below sea level for crying out loud? Of course it's going to flood!
2) Knowing this - the leaders should have had a REALLY good preparedness and evacuation plan...part of which would have been a - don't move to this city because we don't think it'll be around much longer - ad campain.
You know, there wasn't much that leaders could do to prevent 9/11. But there was a LOT they could have done to prevent the tragedy happening in New Orleans.
Does FEMA really have to have a go ahead from the president to take action?
Poor George, everyone loves to whip him.
Bear
Firstly; because we are a Federalist form of government there needs to be a request made by the states for federal interaction. (The Govenor of LA declared a state of emergency 2 days before Katrina hit and asked the White House for assistance)
Secondly; previous to this administration the FEMA Director was free to act with the full authority of his post to respond to such state requests. Good 'ole Dubya chose to consolidate FEMA into the Homeland Security Department and cut its budget at the same time.
Super-fantastic that your Dad is helping in the heat of the battle.
The folks that are working 24 /7 are the best. Period!
Although, we will quickly learn, as the next few days roll along that folks in 100's of outpost areas, will continue to endure another 2/3/4 days (perhaps a week? who knows?) before FEMA, RedCross, National Gaurd etc. are able to get to these specific locations, over a large geographic area.
Of ALL the locations hit by the storm, what percentage of these areas are currently being covered by all media outlets? (I would suggest to you at this time, that the percentage is very small indeed!) and all this week the media has got to the storm hit areas, long before any one else!
Heck, as I write this note, the bulk of rescue is primarily focused on the Convention center in New Orleans, as they now have everyone out of the Dome..still working on the Convention Center and the Heli's are feverishly picking folks of the roofs in New Orleans.
*No blame suggested, just the reality of who's boots are on the ground and where!
You might want to turn on your TV! ...as there have been TV news reports TODAY, covering communities out of Florida helping neighbors hit by the storm...no FEMA/Redcross etc. as yet in these communities!
Just neighbors helping neighbors!
As we type our little notes back and forth to each other ..if you are suggesting that every location along Mississippi, Alabama, etc. ...let alone within New Orleans city limits itself has rescuers in place!....
with all due respect, I think not!
though...Time Will Tell!
Best Regards,
p.s. the following is an online BLOG that you may be interested in
as of 2:01 PM -Today!!- "Now this is something that requires tact, and I do not have much experience with reporting, but I think the world needs to know how overwhelmed the police are out here: I have reports from 3 different police sources that 2 police officers have committed suicide. Out of respect for their families, I will not name them or go into detail. Truly tragic how bad things are. I sincerely hope I did the right thing in reporting this."
Katrina Tragedy
I don't know about disgrace - no disgrace accords to the people who are knocking themselves out to do something, to get it right. Sure there is a lot of anger, but anger is part of grief. The blaming will go on for ever, but surely it is too huge and too complex to simply blame "across the board". We probably get some slightly different reports in Australia, as our news teams there send their stuff back direct. One tonight (we are night-time just now) told of some "looters" who took their stolen food and drink into the stadium and gave it out to the neediest. Told of US citizens who drove extraordinary distances from their safe homes carrying everything they owned to give away to the refugees. Told of police officer supposedly "guarding" a shop whose conscience would not let him prevent people from taking food and drink so desparately needed.
On this thread, one thing I couldn't help noticing - where are the female DGrinners? Has every post been from one of the fellers? I thank everyone who has posted here, because it has helped me understand how much people who are not in the zone are hurting. But I'd like to hear what Ginger feels, Ann, Lyn, Snapapple, on the opinions and thoughts and reactions that this thread has drawn out. We share your grief, but the feeling here seems more of intense helpless sympathy, not of criticism or anger.
Has this been posted, an old Natl Geo article. WOW, if true. I have not checked it out, I mean I read it, but I just woke up and I have not gone to see if it is bogus, but I don't see how it could be.
Funny, I should come to post this and see the thing from Possum re "where are the women?". It has often crossed my mind that this is the one place I belong to that is dominantly male, and it really is, isn't it???
I usually think about that when I am having a "reaction" to something. However, it is just interesting.
I did not know this thread was here until like yesterday, I happened on it by accident. I probably would have commented if I had noticed it earlier. I don't think the subject heading is that subject specific, if that makes sense. I am on a small, maybe 12 active people, international group from my hard of hearing club who are very interested in politics, natl, international, etc. affairs. Things can be talked about there that can't be talked about other places.
I was "no mail" with them for awhile, and I went back to being active a few days ago, and there is where I have been pouring out my heart and my feelings.
I was so gratified that I cried when I had posted about an animal help organization called Noah's Wish, and a "friend" from that group donated to them.
I am coming from a different perspective. I live in the SC lowlands. We, in 1989, had the first of the "most expensive" hurricanes in the US. It was Hugo bull's eye, Charleston. I was living, renting, on a barrier island. The same one my church is on. The scenes I see on TV now are a magnified, much larger version of the one I lived through, as I feel it. As I told the other group, a flooded island is a flooded island. The city was devastated, but not in the way of New Orleans. The worst hit place was north of us, in the way of hurricanes, a place called McClellanville, I think, my spelling might be off. But my life was changed forever. There were similarities. And differences. But I have dealt with the organizations. I have posted elsewhere that FEMA sucked, the Red Cross was OK, but that the best places were the religious organizations as they are not buried in the buraucracy. I got my help from the Catholic Church, but all the religious groups were, and still are, very active in that type of thing.
So, I am having a lot of trouble with this emotionally myself. To me it is the worst thing I have ever seen. Emotionally I feel it much more than I ever felt 9/11, and I am sure people in the NYC area would still relate closer to 9/11, but this is terrible.
And not just for now, I expected a big hurricane to hit Charleston this year. We are due, the Atlantic is right. And this area is so built up that imo it cannot be evacuated effectively. I expected to be very inconvenienced, scared, and I would have to leave home early, often (they never know really where the hurricane is going), etc.
The big concern I have is we are not fighting terrorists here, IMO, we are fighting a change in the climate, global warming, etc. In essence, I see that we are the enemy ourselves, it is an internal battle. To drive or not to drive, AC or not, big cars, little cars, and much more than that I am afraid. I am really scared for the future.
As far as blame, well, did I mention that my little group is very liberal? They are. Except for one lone male conservative voice, who is still more liberal than other people I know. They, these liberals, are trying to sort through their own feelings. I think right now, there is growing sentiment that the "blame game" is not appropriate. There is anger at Michael Moore. What has happened has happened. And this is the time to fix it, if possible. How, or even if, it should be fixed is an issue. Lives should be saved. Etc.
However, at the same time, I am having my own flashbacks to the devastation of losing my home and everything in it.
I am not in a financial position to do more than the most token of responses, so I was really moved to tears when Linda on that group did donate to that animal group. I am very upset when I see the animals. And I do believe strongly in the religious orgs, I have had good feelings about Catholic Charities for a long time. I trust them. Linda, nowhere near ever being a catholic, she has tried to donate to them, but is having trouble getting the money to them easily. Linda is a social worker, she has a cochlear implant for her hearing, such as it is, she is in upstate NY, she has worked with Catholic Charities and has seen them in action. Next paycheck, she is hoping to get through to them.
I don't feel too bad that she has not gotten to them as I feel that it is a very popular org that is being mentioned all over the internet. People will be donating in churches, today and lots of times, for the people. But the animals, I was so grateful, just so.......
I have sat on my couch with my dogs, and I have promised them that I will never leave them. That is my emotional response. They do not watch TV with comprehension, smile, so they have no idea, but they do have their own concerns. I accidentally flooded the house the other day and the whole downstairs is still wet from that. (Long story I have told practically no one), but the dogs can't sit down anywhere and be dry unless it is in their crates or on the couch. So I have spend more time with them on the couch, and especially my male Corgi, he has been very upset, so I have sat there and cried with them, and in that respect I have told them I would never leave him, or any of them.
I am not a disinterested party here, I have been through something similar, I am still living it to a degree...........
I will say that when you are there, the whys and wherefores, there is no time for that, there is only time for problem solving. I did get help from everyone, I had renters insurance. I got my senator's office involved and finally fema helped me w something like 500.00. Red cross provided me w a mattress. But my church stood willing to do whatever it took. That is strong stuff. I continued to vote for Fritz Hollings until he retired, last year. He is also upset w Fema,again, and is reliving this stuff. He still lives on one of the islands, but he has been through this, though he has the means to get through it better, he .................well, you have to be there. And he has, to a degree. And his machine was terrific. Same, somewhat w Strom Thurmond, I am not in favor of term limits. Etc. I still go to the same church, but I do not live on the island.
I actually think it all sucks and there is so much involved it is not a simple thing. But I do not really think these areas should be built up in the first place.
and the animals ...
That is an amazing article - it doesn't "look" bogus, and the links from it seem all genuine. The day the hurricane came on shore and we were all being told it was not as bad as feared, my first concern then was for the pets being abandoned by the evacuation. An animal welfare agency in Australia was already asking for donations to help kit up the US agencies to get trucks in to pick up stranded animals. I'd mentioned that in Andy's first thread in News and Events (he was way ahead of everyone here), then I felt a bit worried that I would be dumped on for putting animals first when it suddenly all became very different. Anyway, they are asking us to donate direct to the US Agency now - I think their website is www.ifaw.org - to help with pet rescue. .... yes that's the one, it has a bit of background on what they are doing and hope to do.
My only words suitable for print are for the masses of humanity who have suffered greatly: May peace of mind one day find you. I will continue to do all I can to help. Have faith in your fellow man...We do care...
Hate to put a damper in all the anti-Bush people over Katrina. (Ok, I'll admit, I LOVE putting a damper in all the anti-Bush rhetoric. Just interjecting some reality here):
we are now learning that Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco might have had a direct role in delaying federal assistance in the Katrina disaster. The story is surfacing that at one point George Bush offered federal help, and Governor Blanco, a Democrat, by the way, said that she preferred to wait for 24 hours before she made that request. That sure gets in the way of the Blame Bush game, doesn't it?
Gosh a link to two right wing web sites. What a shock that they have a rather singular view of events. Here's a link to the National Geographic that is a bit more objective and insightful.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Hate to put a damper in all the anti-Bush people over Katrina. (Ok, I'll admit, I LOVE putting a damper in all the anti-Bush rhetoric. Just interjecting some reality here):
Comments
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
1) keep it civil
2) no personal attacks - if you don't like what a poster's saying then find a way to rebut *without* getting personal.
3) see #s 1 and 2
thank you
Portfolio • Workshops • Facebook • Twitter
Bill,
Thanks for your clarification on your initial post, although not necessary, as your message came across loud and clear on your first attempt!
As for golf, great game, good for the head and the heart.
I am now 49 and picked the game up quite late, as I was in my late teens before experiencing my first 18 holes.
You should give it a go, as it is quite enjoyable.
p.s. an update on New Orleans ..(see: Bigfoot's phone number)
Blog- http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/
Regards,
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
I don't see what the purpose of asking if the folks at the convention center are responsible for being there. The fact is that they are there. The fact is they need help. Even the Prez says the response hasn't been adequate. I blame our leaders and agencies for the inadequate response. We need to look at what happened and why we failed. Saying that the folks who didn't evacuate are partly to blame does nothing to resolve the fact that the agencies who were responsible for responding failed. Thats the issue that has to be addressed once we get past this tragedy. Thats the issue that concerns me as a citizen and a voter.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
National guard and the military, they are spread so thin across the world, especially in Iraq that we just don't have the human resources to pull off such an undertaking at the moment. The Reserves near me in North Riverside IL just got deployed to Iraq, 2000 people that could have been used in this effort. But no, they were sent overseas. my friend in Ft Brag is being delployed to New Orleans but it seems to be too little too late.
I don't think now is the time to blame anyone, there will be plenty of time for that later. Now is the time to prove me wrong Pres Bush and other head officials, prove that you can take care of your own people, pull troops out of Iraq if they are needed, declare martial law, do something.
I just read this article on CNN and I just about burst into tears. I just don't have any more word to describe what I feel right now.
SmugMug Technical Account Manager
Travel = good. Woo, shooting!
nickwphoto
Monday - President Bush is at a fund raiser in Orange County, CA
Monday - Reverend Phelps blames the hurricane on gays.
Monday - Ralph Reed (Christian Coalition) blames it on abortionists.
Tuesday - President Bush is at a fund raiser in San Diego, CA
Wednesday - President Bush is golfing in Arizona
Wednesday - President Bush cuts his vacation short (after 5 weeks???)
Wednesday - Secretary Rice is shopping in NYC. Attends the theater.
Thursday - In response to gasoline prices, President Bush tels the nation "...it's to be expected..." rather than issue warnings against price gouging.
Thursday - House Speaker Hastert says "New Orleans doesn't deserve to be saved"
Friday - Congress votes on $10 billion aid package - absent from vote...? Speaker Hastert who is at a fund raiser.
Friday - VP Cheney is still on vacation.
2002 & 2003 & 2004 - President Bush cuts budget for Army Corp of Engineer reconstruction program of gulf port levies.
2003 & 2004 - President Bush cuts FEMA Disaster Relief Budget
2002 & 2003 & 2004 & 2005 - Government pours $200 billion+ into Iraq... $90 billion missing and unaccounted for. $17 million+ paid to Halliburton in No-bid contracts.
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
SmugMug Technical Account Manager
Travel = good. Woo, shooting!
nickwphoto
You can point fingers and blame whoever you want to at this point, I really don't care, it is doing nothing to solve THIS problem. We'll have plenty of time to argue, point fingers and apply what we have learned to help protect american lives in the future once the dust has settled.
What we need to do is see what WE can do to help those in need RIGHT NOW.
You don't have to donate a large amount of money or even give more than you can afford, but give a couple bucks if you can afford it and let's work the problem.
My dad is a Red Cross volunteer and leaves tomorrow to see what he can do to help the situation, he has participated in every Flood, earthquake, hurricane for the last 15 years. I have often been concerned for his safety when he goes to help but this is the first time I have actually asked him not to go because I worried about his personal safety from the people he goes out of his way to try and help. Yet he leaves tomorrow morning to go see what he can do to help.
I think we can all learn a lesson from his actions. We have no friends or family in the area. But he told me last night, they're Americans.. we're all family.
Ed
www.edhughesphoto.com
I started an employee donation campaign at work and we have collected $9500 in 2.5 days and with matching funds that equals 19000 and growing. I also have sheparded a blood donation campaign and 50 employees have already donated.
The past 2 evenings I have shown up at Red Cross collection sites (with water and snacks) and helped out. I'm not an official RC volunteer so I couldn't handle money so I helped clean up and break down boxes and bundled donated goods.
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
Gary
Gary
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
The problems in New Orleans are directly related to
1) A city which shouldn't exist in the first place - It's below sea level for crying out loud? Of course it's going to flood!
2) Knowing this - the leaders should have had a REALLY good preparedness and evacuation plan...part of which would have been a - don't move to this city because we don't think it'll be around much longer - ad campain.
You know, there wasn't much that leaders could do to prevent 9/11. But there was a LOT they could have done to prevent the tragedy happening in New Orleans.
*Tsk Tsk*
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Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4211320.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4210674.stm
Poor George, everyone loves to whip him.
Bear
http://behr655.smugmug.com/gallery/2514206#132038106
3:42 PM Saturday "why is it that trucks of NBC are here and..."
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB112558354053629071-_S_bQOoFXC04G7cyYosV_f6v6m4_20060902,00.html?mod=blogs
................the answer is more of the same from current leadership:bigbs
www.edhughesphoto.com
Secondly; previous to this administration the FEMA Director was free to act with the full authority of his post to respond to such state requests. Good 'ole Dubya chose to consolidate FEMA into the Homeland Security Department and cut its budget at the same time.
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
Ed
Super-fantastic that your Dad is helping in the heat of the battle.
The folks that are working 24 /7 are the best. Period!
Although, we will quickly learn, as the next few days roll along that folks in 100's of outpost areas, will continue to endure another 2/3/4 days (perhaps a week? who knows?) before FEMA, RedCross, National Gaurd etc. are able to get to these specific locations, over a large geographic area.
Of ALL the locations hit by the storm, what percentage of these areas are currently being covered by all media outlets? (I would suggest to you at this time, that the percentage is very small indeed!) and all this week the media has got to the storm hit areas, long before any one else!
Heck, as I write this note, the bulk of rescue is primarily focused on the Convention center in New Orleans, as they now have everyone out of the Dome..still working on the Convention Center and the Heli's are feverishly picking folks of the roofs in New Orleans.
*No blame suggested, just the reality of who's boots are on the ground and where!
You might want to turn on your TV! ...as there have been TV news reports TODAY, covering communities out of Florida helping neighbors hit by the storm...no FEMA/Redcross etc. as yet in these communities!
Just neighbors helping neighbors!
As we type our little notes back and forth to each other ..if you are suggesting that every location along Mississippi, Alabama, etc. ...let alone within New Orleans city limits itself has rescuers in place!....
with all due respect, I think not!
though...Time Will Tell!
Best Regards,
p.s. the following is an online BLOG that you may be interested in
http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/
as of 2:01 PM -Today!!-
"Now this is something that requires tact, and I do not have much experience with reporting, but I think the world needs to know how overwhelmed the police are out here: I have reports from 3 different police sources that 2 police officers have committed suicide. Out of respect for their families, I will not name them or go into detail. Truly tragic how bad things are. I sincerely hope I did the right thing in reporting this."
I don't know about disgrace - no disgrace accords to the people who are knocking themselves out to do something, to get it right. Sure there is a lot of anger, but anger is part of grief. The blaming will go on for ever, but surely it is too huge and too complex to simply blame "across the board". We probably get some slightly different reports in Australia, as our news teams there send their stuff back direct. One tonight (we are night-time just now) told of some "looters" who took their stolen food and drink into the stadium and gave it out to the neediest. Told of US citizens who drove extraordinary distances from their safe homes carrying everything they owned to give away to the refugees. Told of police officer supposedly "guarding" a shop whose conscience would not let him prevent people from taking food and drink so desparately needed.
On this thread, one thing I couldn't help noticing - where are the female DGrinners? Has every post been from one of the fellers? I thank everyone who has posted here, because it has helped me understand how much people who are not in the zone are hurting. But I'd like to hear what Ginger feels, Ann, Lyn, Snapapple, on the opinions and thoughts and reactions that this thread has drawn out. We share your grief, but the feeling here seems more of intense helpless sympathy, not of criticism or anger.
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Has this been posted, an old Natl Geo article. WOW, if true. I have not checked it out, I mean I read it, but I just woke up and I have not gone to see if it is bogus, but I don't see how it could be.
Funny, I should come to post this and see the thing from Possum re "where are the women?". It has often crossed my mind that this is the one place I belong to that is dominantly male, and it really is, isn't it???
I usually think about that when I am having a "reaction" to something. However, it is just interesting.
I did not know this thread was here until like yesterday, I happened on it by accident. I probably would have commented if I had noticed it earlier. I don't think the subject heading is that subject specific, if that makes sense. I am on a small, maybe 12 active people, international group from my hard of hearing club who are very interested in politics, natl, international, etc. affairs. Things can be talked about there that can't be talked about other places.
I was "no mail" with them for awhile, and I went back to being active a few days ago, and there is where I have been pouring out my heart and my feelings.
I was so gratified that I cried when I had posted about an animal help organization called Noah's Wish, and a "friend" from that group donated to them.
I am coming from a different perspective. I live in the SC lowlands. We, in 1989, had the first of the "most expensive" hurricanes in the US. It was Hugo bull's eye, Charleston. I was living, renting, on a barrier island. The same one my church is on. The scenes I see on TV now are a magnified, much larger version of the one I lived through, as I feel it. As I told the other group, a flooded island is a flooded island. The city was devastated, but not in the way of New Orleans. The worst hit place was north of us, in the way of hurricanes, a place called McClellanville, I think, my spelling might be off. But my life was changed forever. There were similarities. And differences. But I have dealt with the organizations. I have posted elsewhere that FEMA sucked, the Red Cross was OK, but that the best places were the religious organizations as they are not buried in the buraucracy. I got my help from the Catholic Church, but all the religious groups were, and still are, very active in that type of thing.
So, I am having a lot of trouble with this emotionally myself. To me it is the worst thing I have ever seen. Emotionally I feel it much more than I ever felt 9/11, and I am sure people in the NYC area would still relate closer to 9/11, but this is terrible.
And not just for now, I expected a big hurricane to hit Charleston this year. We are due, the Atlantic is right. And this area is so built up that imo it cannot be evacuated effectively. I expected to be very inconvenienced, scared, and I would have to leave home early, often (they never know really where the hurricane is going), etc.
The big concern I have is we are not fighting terrorists here, IMO, we are fighting a change in the climate, global warming, etc. In essence, I see that we are the enemy ourselves, it is an internal battle. To drive or not to drive, AC or not, big cars, little cars, and much more than that I am afraid. I am really scared for the future.
As far as blame, well, did I mention that my little group is very liberal? They are. Except for one lone male conservative voice, who is still more liberal than other people I know. They, these liberals, are trying to sort through their own feelings. I think right now, there is growing sentiment that the "blame game" is not appropriate. There is anger at Michael Moore. What has happened has happened. And this is the time to fix it, if possible. How, or even if, it should be fixed is an issue. Lives should be saved. Etc.
However, at the same time, I am having my own flashbacks to the devastation of losing my home and everything in it.
I am not in a financial position to do more than the most token of responses, so I was really moved to tears when Linda on that group did donate to that animal group. I am very upset when I see the animals. And I do believe strongly in the religious orgs, I have had good feelings about Catholic Charities for a long time. I trust them. Linda, nowhere near ever being a catholic, she has tried to donate to them, but is having trouble getting the money to them easily. Linda is a social worker, she has a cochlear implant for her hearing, such as it is, she is in upstate NY, she has worked with Catholic Charities and has seen them in action. Next paycheck, she is hoping to get through to them.
I don't feel too bad that she has not gotten to them as I feel that it is a very popular org that is being mentioned all over the internet. People will be donating in churches, today and lots of times, for the people. But the animals, I was so grateful, just so.......
I have sat on my couch with my dogs, and I have promised them that I will never leave them. That is my emotional response. They do not watch TV with comprehension, smile, so they have no idea, but they do have their own concerns. I accidentally flooded the house the other day and the whole downstairs is still wet from that. (Long story I have told practically no one), but the dogs can't sit down anywhere and be dry unless it is in their crates or on the couch. So I have spend more time with them on the couch, and especially my male Corgi, he has been very upset, so I have sat there and cried with them, and in that respect I have told them I would never leave him, or any of them.
I am not a disinterested party here, I have been through something similar, I am still living it to a degree...........
I will say that when you are there, the whys and wherefores, there is no time for that, there is only time for problem solving. I did get help from everyone, I had renters insurance. I got my senator's office involved and finally fema helped me w something like 500.00. Red cross provided me w a mattress. But my church stood willing to do whatever it took. That is strong stuff. I continued to vote for Fritz Hollings until he retired, last year. He is also upset w Fema,again, and is reliving this stuff. He still lives on one of the islands, but he has been through this, though he has the means to get through it better, he .................well, you have to be there. And he has, to a degree. And his machine was terrific. Same, somewhat w Strom Thurmond, I am not in favor of term limits. Etc. I still go to the same church, but I do not live on the island.
I actually think it all sucks and there is so much involved it is not a simple thing. But I do not really think these areas should be built up in the first place.
That Natl Geographic article is interesting.
ginger
That is an amazing article - it doesn't "look" bogus, and the links from it seem all genuine. The day the hurricane came on shore and we were all being told it was not as bad as feared, my first concern then was for the pets being abandoned by the evacuation. An animal welfare agency in Australia was already asking for donations to help kit up the US agencies to get trucks in to pick up stranded animals. I'd mentioned that in Andy's first thread in News and Events (he was way ahead of everyone here), then I felt a bit worried that I would be dumped on for putting animals first when it suddenly all became very different. Anyway, they are asking us to donate direct to the US Agency now - I think their website is www.ifaw.org - to help with pet rescue. .... yes that's the one, it has a bit of background on what they are doing and hope to do.
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I have this issue of National Geographic. I found the article very discouraging ...
Brad
www.digismile.ca
Sources:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/5/234033.shtml
http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html
Funny how I don't see this on CNN...
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http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature5/
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How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Funny, I saw it on CNN this morning,
ginger