Beware using Pay Pal "Gift"

SystemSystem Posts: 8,192Registered Users moderator
edited May 26, 2011 in Flea Market
If you use the pay pal "gift" mode to avoid paying the fee, pay pal will not help you if there is a dispute with the transaction.
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Comments

  • BsimonBsimon New Dog, Old Tricks Posts: 252Registered Users Major grins
    edited September 30, 2010
    Paypal has its place but it seems to be getting more and more cumbersome. Anytime I sell now, I let the customer use their credit card and process it through MTG on my phone and email a receipt.
  • r3t1awr3ydr3t1awr3yd Lifetime Noob! Posts: 1,000Registered Users Major grins
    edited September 30, 2010
    Paypal didn't help me in the past when I used the regular "goods" mode lol.

    Hi! I'm Wally: website | blog | facebook | IG | scotchNsniff
    Nikon addict. D610, Tok 11-16, Sig 24-35, Nik 24-70/70-200vr
  • SeymoreSeymore Banned User Posts: 1,539Banned Major grins
    edited December 8, 2010
    I've been pondering this for some time now and wonder how you know this... and do you have any proof to back up your words?
  • yendikenoyendikeno Major grins Posts: 214Registered Users Major grins
    edited December 9, 2010
    Seymore wrote: »
    I've been pondering this for some time now and wonder how you know this... and do you have any proof to back up your words?

    I'm not the Captain, but there was a recent thread at Fred Miranda's site discussing this very issue. Seems that PayPal was cracking down on sellers who used this option too many times. I'll try to find that thread and post a link.

    EDIT - here's the link - http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/960825
    Regards,
    AZFred
  • SeymoreSeymore Banned User Posts: 1,539Banned Major grins
    edited December 9, 2010
    yendikeno wrote: »

    Thank you! Explains alot... thumb.gif
  • dogwooddogwood pixel hack Posts: 2,572Registered Users Major grins
    edited December 22, 2010
    Honestly, I avoid Paypal for anything whenever possible.

    Why? It's a major PITA to use (for example the repeated requests to log-in when all you want to do is pay for something). They spam you constantly too. And opting out of their spam takes ten days (!) during which time they continue to spam you.

    Ironically, while Paypal apparently can't turn off their spam easily, they were able to instantly cut-off donations to Wikileaks.

    That aside, there's about eight million other reasons to hate paypal -- enough to create plenty of content for a website called paypalsucks.com

    On the other hand, I've had fairly good success with google checkout. Just my personal experience, of course. I'm sure paypal wouldn't still be around if they totally sucked rolleyes1.gif

    Portland, Oregon Photographer Pete Springer
    website blog instagram facebook g+

  • PupatorPupator Major grins Posts: 2,322Registered Users Major grins
    edited December 24, 2010
    This is not directed at the OP, but to the topic in general:

    I'm no Paypal fan, but why would anyone expect them to help you in a dispute resolution if you lie about the nature of your transaction? If you try and cheat the system to avoid a fee, you shouldn't be surprised when it comes back to bite you. I think their fees are too high, but part of what you're paying for is some protection when things go bad.
  • Art ScottArt Scott Have PASSPORT will TRAVEL WICHITA, KS USAPosts: 8,959Registered Users Major grins
    edited December 24, 2010
    captain78 wrote: »
    If you use the pay pal "gift" mode to avoid paying the fee, pay pal will not help you if there is a dispute with the transaction.


    That is exactly correct.......because PayPal was used in a manner strictly forbidden in their rules....it is plainly written.

    I have used Paypal before it became part of the Ebay empire (about 11 yrs now) and I have never had a problem with them ....I have never received one piece of PayPal spam....lots of Phishing from hackers using the PayPal logo...but that is forwarded to PayPal and I get a reply stating yes it was a Phishing email and will be dealt with.....never felt their fees were high, but again it is a tax deduction..........
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • OverfocusedOverfocused Photo Nut Posts: 1,068Registered Users Major grins
    edited January 10, 2011
    Ive been with paypal for 4-5 years now and I don't get spam from them, only a special offer once in a blue moon that was actually something worth considering. Also, yes, I can confirm gifts are not insured since Paypal gets nothing they're not going to help you. You don't even have an option to file a dispute on gift payments in Paypals interface.
  • JustinThymeJustinThyme R&M Sports Photography Posts: 112Registered Users Major grins
    edited January 19, 2011
    Pupator wrote: »
    This is not directed at the OP, but to the topic in general:

    I'm no Paypal fan, but why would anyone expect them to help you in a dispute resolution if you lie about the nature of your transaction? If you try and cheat the system to avoid a fee, you shouldn't be surprised when it comes back to bite you. I think their fees are too high, but part of what you're paying for is some protection when things go bad.

    Define protection?

    I use paypal but usually avoid the regular fees and use the echeck option which is a $5 flat fee.

    Let me tell you a story about protection though. I sold a $3K lens to a gentleman in Oregon. He payed by paypal echeck and as soon as it cleared I shipped the lens and provided a tracking number. Within hours of sending off the tracking number There was a dispute filed stating "does not fit description of purchase". This buyer hadnt even seen the lens yet which BTW was in mint condition. I provided tracking info post haste so they could see it wasnt even there yet. In the meantime my paypal balance was put on hold. I offered full refund including return shipping costs. The money was refunded and the buyer provided a copy of a USPS receipt for parcel post shipping although I paid for fedex overnight. 3 weeks later I received the package and was now a proud owner of a chunk of cinder block that was placed in a box and shipped to me. I contact paypal who informed me that the time frame in which to dispute had already passed. End result, I was out a $3K lens and $3K. Yep that was protection alright!

    Story #2
    My wife is the treasurer of the local soccer club. They were accepting registration fees via paypal and this group of people all of the same ethnic background banded together and all filed a dispute with paypal on the fees paid after the player passes were issued. There were a suffucient number of dispute filed that paypal in their infinite wisdom froze the account. Well the insurance bill had to be paid post haste and paypal had locked down over $15K in registration fees. The only option to get the moeny to pay the clubs bills was to issue the refunds which still took several days and ended with the insurance lapsing, the club shutting down for a week to get new insurance. Evidently these people had been doing this for a few years and more had joined the group at the direction of a few of the coaches who also happened to be in the smae ethnic group. My wife being the woman she is with this being her first year on the soccer board decided it was time for the free ride to end. She compiled the names and teams they were on and set out to the games the first weekend they started back in again. She went to each and every team and pulled the player passes of every player in on the scam whcih put pretty much everyone of those teams short on players. Most had to forfeit as the parents now ran for their checkbooks and my wife cut them off at the pass stating CASH only! They not only had to pay for that year but the previous years they slid by with it. Those who refused to pay, believe me there were plenty of them, were permantly banned from play in the state of NJ. Paypal in action again!

    While its a convenient way to send money dont count on the protection especially if you are a seller!
    Canon CPS Gold Member
  • digger2digger2 Big grins Posts: 91Registered Users Big grins
    edited January 19, 2011
    Depends
    How you send the money to paypal. If you fund from your bank account and send it as a gift then you will not get help.
    I always fund it from my credit card. If needed I will dispute it that way, but i have always found paypal to be helpfull.
    You get what you pay for.
    Would I send $$ to a total stranger? Of course not, I do not care what there rating or number of postings is.
  • SeymoreSeymore Banned User Posts: 1,539Banned Major grins
    edited January 20, 2011
    And these examples show why I prefer to speak with the other end person, selling or buying. A judgement call as far as the person on line and their persona and how things match on the email end also helps to tell if a personal check or USPS MO will be OK. Not really preferring PP these days. Don't really need their assurances if you do your own legwork and you feel you can trust your gut. YMMV...
  • AngeloAngelo Turning frowns upsidedown Posts: 8,937Super Moderators moderator
    edited January 20, 2011
    Pupator wrote: »
    ...I'm no Paypal fan, but why would anyone expect them to help you in a dispute resolution if you lie about the nature of your transaction? If you try and cheat...


    +! headscratch.gif



    .
  • JMichaelKJMichaelK J. Michael Krouskop Posts: 35Registered Users Big grins
    edited January 24, 2011
    Define protection?

    I use paypal but usually avoid the regular fees and use the echeck option which is a $5 flat fee.

    Let me tell you a story about protection though. I sold a $3K lens to a gentleman in Oregon. He payed by paypal echeck and as soon as it cleared I shipped the lens and provided a tracking number. Within hours of sending off the tracking number There was a dispute filed stating "does not fit description of purchase". This buyer hadnt even seen the lens yet which BTW was in mint condition. I provided tracking info post haste so they could see it wasnt even there yet. In the meantime my paypal balance was put on hold. I offered full refund including return shipping costs. The money was refunded and the buyer provided a copy of a USPS receipt for parcel post shipping although I paid for fedex overnight. 3 weeks later I received the package and was now a proud owner of a chunk of cinder block that was placed in a box and shipped to me. I contact paypal who informed me that the time frame in which to dispute had already passed. End result, I was out a $3K lens and $3K. Yep that was protection alright!

    Story #2
    My wife is the treasurer of the local soccer club. They were accepting registration fees via paypal and this group of people all of the same ethnic background banded together and all filed a dispute with paypal on the fees paid after the player passes were issued. There were a suffucient number of dispute filed that paypal in their infinite wisdom froze the account. Well the insurance bill had to be paid post haste and paypal had locked down over $15K in registration fees. The only option to get the moeny to pay the clubs bills was to issue the refunds which still took several days and ended with the insurance lapsing, the club shutting down for a week to get new insurance. Evidently these people had been doing this for a few years and more had joined the group at the direction of a few of the coaches who also happened to be in the smae ethnic group. My wife being the woman she is with this being her first year on the soccer board decided it was time for the free ride to end. She compiled the names and teams they were on and set out to the games the first weekend they started back in again. She went to each and every team and pulled the player passes of every player in on the scam whcih put pretty much everyone of those teams short on players. Most had to forfeit as the parents now ran for their checkbooks and my wife cut them off at the pass stating CASH only! They not only had to pay for that year but the previous years they slid by with it. Those who refused to pay, believe me there were plenty of them, were permantly banned from play in the state of NJ. Paypal in action again!

    While its a convenient way to send money dont count on the protection especially if you are a seller!
    This is almost exactly my experience. I found out there are a lot of people who have figured out how to use PayPal to steal your money and things. They know that PayPal will do nothing to help you. If you sell something, the scam artist waits until right moment, disputes the order somehow and PayPal refunds their money. They proceed keep whatever you sent them and either lie that they did not receive the item, or say it is defective and they send you an empty box back. They then turn around and sell the exact item they stole from you using PayPal. PayPal cares nothing about people, only money.
    J. Michael Krouskop
    http://belmontphoto.smugmug.com/
    http:/weddingphotonashville.com
    Nikon D700 (3 bodies), Nikon 14-24 f2.8, Nikon 24 f/1.4, Nikon 24-70 f/2.8, Nikon 50 f/1.4, Nikon 85 f/1.4, Nikon 70-200 f/2.g VRII, SB-900(2), SB-800(5)
  • RagonRagon Ragon Photography Posts: 72Registered Users Big grins
    edited January 30, 2011
    I've used PayPal for years and have never had a problem with them. The way I understood it was that PayPal ONLY protects you when the purchase or sale was done thru eBay and eBay only. I bought a cell phone from eBay once and it must have been stolen because it couldn't be turned on through Verizon. Told eBay and PayPal and within a few weeks I have a full refund (shipping too). That's the only issue that I have had with them and it turned out great!
  • AndyAndy Bicameral New YorkPosts: 50,151Registered Users Major grins
    edited February 3, 2011
    dogwood wrote: »
    Honestly, I avoid Paypal for anything whenever possible.

    Why? It's a major PITA to use (for example the repeated requests to log-in when all you want to do is pay for something). They spam you constantly too. And opting out of their spam takes ten days (!) during which time they continue to spam you.

    Ironically, while Paypal apparently can't turn off their spam easily, they were able to instantly cut-off donations to Wikileaks.

    That aside, there's about eight million other reasons to hate paypal -- enough to create plenty of content for a website called paypalsucks.com

    On the other hand, I've had fairly good success with google checkout. Just my personal experience, of course. I'm sure paypal wouldn't still be around if they totally sucked rolleyes1.gif

    Never once got spam from Paypal, been using them for what, 10+ years now? I love shopping online at websites that take Paypal, so easy to complete a transaction, just a few clicks and boom-done. I've done hundreds and hundreds of transactions over the years and never, ever had a single problem as buyer or seller.

    I also use Google Checkout for some things.
  • Mark DickinsonMark Dickinson Mark Dickinson Posts: 337Registered Users Major grins
    edited February 15, 2011
    Andy, have you tried that www.squareup.com <-- twitter creator made the device and CC acceptance... I just got it and love it so far. Paypal is great... you just have to protect yourself by doing the right thing, Forget about paying fee's its 10.00 typically on bigger items, its not worth it. the internet is an anonymous grounds for scammers. I never get spam either. IF you browse the internet a ton, and submit your emails to everything, you might get spam from phishing sites.
  • ThatCanonGuyThatCanonGuy Artist/Entrepreneur/Nomad Posts: 1,778Registered Users Major grins
    edited February 21, 2011
    Let me tell you a story about protection though. I sold a $3K lens to a gentleman in Oregon. He payed by paypal echeck and as soon as it cleared I shipped the lens and provided a tracking number. Within hours of sending off the tracking number There was a dispute filed stating "does not fit description of purchase". This buyer hadnt even seen the lens yet which BTW was in mint condition. I provided tracking info post haste so they could see it wasnt even there yet. In the meantime my paypal balance was put on hold. I offered full refund including return shipping costs. The money was refunded and the buyer provided a copy of a USPS receipt for parcel post shipping although I paid for fedex overnight. 3 weeks later I received the package and was now a proud owner of a chunk of cinder block that was placed in a box and shipped to me. I contact paypal who informed me that the time frame in which to dispute had already passed. End result, I was out a $3K lens and $3K. Yep that was protection alright!

    Ouch! Yeah, that doesn't make paypal sound too good does it?

    Very classy to use the word "gentleman" there.
  • Mark DickinsonMark Dickinson Mark Dickinson Posts: 337Registered Users Major grins
    edited February 21, 2011
    3k is hell of a lot, that'd be worth a drive....
  • SystemSystem Posts: 8,192Registered Users moderator
    edited February 21, 2011
    3k is hell of a lot, that'd be worth a drive....
    I agree
  • JustinThymeJustinThyme R&M Sports Photography Posts: 112Registered Users Major grins
    edited February 22, 2011
    Worth a Drive across country to kick his ass maybe! Then what? I end up in the slammer.
    Bottom line is they dont offer what they advertise. The disputes are settled most likely by a data entry clerk that just looks briefly and makes a click with an automated response.
    Im just saying dont use paypal with the expectations of them protecting anything if it goes south.
    Canon CPS Gold Member
  • Mark DickinsonMark Dickinson Mark Dickinson Posts: 337Registered Users Major grins
    edited February 23, 2011
    Worth a Drive across country to kick his ass maybe! Then what? I end up in the slammer.
    Bottom line is they dont offer what they advertise. The disputes are settled most likely by a data entry clerk that just looks briefly and makes a click with an automated response.
    Im just saying dont use paypal with the expectations of them protecting anything if it goes south.

    Laughing.gif not advocating violence, but typically simple battery will not extradite over a 1 state border... Not only that but to do a fraud report in his city, and have him arrested would be very nice.
  • ShayebrydShayebryd Major grins Posts: 165Registered Users Major grins
    edited February 26, 2011
    Paying by PayPal Gift? Anyone?
    Sorry if this is in the wrong place, wasn't sure where to post it! :)


    I am interested in making a purchase online in a forum and they require payment by PayPal gift..........not really sure what that means and if I should have any concerns.

    This seller also states he is a seller on Ebay with a good rating. I did check and his rating looks fine.

    Wouldn't it be to my advantage to have him sell the item to me directly from his Ebay account as then I would have buyers protection? Or is there a difference between paying by PayPal and PayPal Gift? With PayPal Gift can you use your credit card on account or does it have to come directly from your bank account?

    Haven't bought online from a private individual like this and know of others nightmares, but also have heard many successful stories. Anyone have any experience or information that might be helpful?

    It is for a sizable amount and a bit nervous about possible risks.

    Thank you in advance!!! smsmile.gif
    "My favorite thing is to go where I've never been!"
  • ThatCanonGuyThatCanonGuy Artist/Entrepreneur/Nomad Posts: 1,778Registered Users Major grins
    edited February 26, 2011
    Using paypal gift to make purchases is strictly forbidden by paypal and if they catch you they can shut down your paypal account. It's what a lot of sellers do to avoid the fee. However, with "gift" paypal will not protect you in a dispute.

    The seller is probably reliable and is most likely just used to doing this to avoid the fee. I recommend you ask him if you can add (I think it's 3-6%) money to do regular paypal. With a large purchase like this I would not risk the "gift" thing; personally I avoid that altogether :).

    edit: I think this belongs in flea market ;~).
  • PupatorPupator Major grins Posts: 2,322Registered Users Major grins
    edited February 26, 2011
    http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=179530

    Check out that thread which is at the very top of the Flea Market.
  • bennetbennet Big grins Posts: 24Registered Users Big grins
    edited February 27, 2011
    I do it all the time and usually to members with good feedback. I wouldn't do it if the member is new though.
  • Art ScottArt Scott Have PASSPORT will TRAVEL WICHITA, KS USAPosts: 8,959Registered Users Major grins
    edited February 27, 2011
    Words of Warning from MY OWN EXPERIENCE
    Using paypal gift to make purchases is strictly forbidden by paypal and if they catch you they can shut down your paypal account. It's what a lot of sellers do to avoid the fee. However, with "gift" paypal will not protect you in a dispute.

    The seller is probably reliable and is most likely just used to doing this to avoid the fee. I recommend you ask him if you can add (I think it's 3-6%) money to do regular paypal. With a large purchase like this I would not risk the "gift" thing; personally I avoid that altogether :).

    edit: I think this belongs in flea market ;~).

    From my own experience.....do not for any reason buy anything using paypal gift.
    .....I got screwed on a $1200 lens purchase, the guy was a forum regular and had favorable feedback and the alias he gave for ebay had only good feedback ( I did not know the forum did not allow negative feedback until I tried to leave some for the seller) and cannot even post negative feedback on the forum i purchased it off of..........it is going to cost me over $400 to get problem fixed..................................

    It is not worth the risk........I just bought some lights and a PCB PLM off ebay and the seller told me it cost more than I paid for shipping...the amount was minuscule ...so I offered to send paypal gift...to me that is ok, with me.....but I will not send until it arrives and I know it really did cost the extra.......I do not trust people when it comes to things like this...............
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • ShayebrydShayebryd Major grins Posts: 165Registered Users Major grins
    edited February 27, 2011
    Thank you everyone so much for your input!!!

    As good of a deal as I think I would have gotten....I am staying completely away from the whole thing!

    You guys might have just saved me the biggest headache of the year! Lol!!!

    (OK........so anyone here have a pristine Canon 70-200L 2.8 IS they want to unload for a sweet price?mwink.gif)
    "My favorite thing is to go where I've never been!"
  • FLYING EYEBALLFLYING EYEBALL roams the streets @ night Posts: 183Registered Users Major grins
    edited February 27, 2011
    You could just offer to pay the fees and the seller would probably go for it.

    just my .02
  • ShayebrydShayebryd Major grins Posts: 165Registered Users Major grins
    edited February 27, 2011
    Thank you Flying Eyeball...........I'll look into that :)
    "My favorite thing is to go where I've never been!"
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