What was it that helped most?

BBstringer

The art of photography like many other arts is certainly a mixture of many things. I'd say the foundation is a good understanding of the technical aspects of how to produce a good image. It's certainly not the only thing. As I attempt to grow and improve as a photographer and artist I take every opportunity available to me to expand and grow. I often wonder just what it is for most photographers that really helped improve your skills the most (aside, of course, from being a member of this forum :rofl).

Was it formal training in a classroom setting? Seminars? Being a member of a photography club or forum? Valid critique of your work by talented and knowledgeable photographers? Shooting a lot? I know all of the mentioned are valid routes toward that goal but what was it that really put you over the top as an artist? What allowed you to go to the next level? What took you past technique and into the realm of art? ( I realize the philosophers or followers of Zen in the group may want to cite the qualities of "artlessness" but we'll save that for another discussion )

Like any art there is a certain subjectivity to the answer but I'd love to hear from those of you who feel you've reached that tipping point in your work and what it was that really helped you achieve that. Makes no difference how long you've been shooting.

ivar

You might as well ask what the best food is.

I think it varies per person. I'm going to guess 'go out and shoot' is going to be near the top, but I'm sure you are going to get just about all answers possible.

You need to find what works for you.

BBstringer

ivar wrote: »

You might as well ask what the best food is.

I think it varies per person. I'm going to guess 'go out and shoot' is going to be near the top, but I'm sure you are going to get just about all answers possible.

You need to find what works for you.

Indeed...what is the best food?

Nikolai

BBstringer wrote: »

Indeed...what is the best food?

Steak, sashimi, and dirty grey goose martini

BBstringer

Nikolai wrote: »

Steak, sashimi, and dirty grey goose martini

See, for some the answer rolls off the tongue as easily as water off a duck's back (excellent choices by the way )

Nikolai

BBstringer wrote: »

See, for some the answer rolls off the tongue as easily as water off a duck's back (excellent choices by the way )

Back to your original question:
* Hanging around smart, knowledgeable and talented people (too many to list), esp. at SM shootouts
* Forums (originally dpreview/stf, now dgrin)
* Shooting a lot
* Reading/learning a lot

BBstringer

Nikolai wrote: »

Back to your original question:
* Hanging around smart, knowledgeable and talented people (too many to list), esp. at SM shootouts
* Forums (originally dpreview/stf, now dgrin)
* Shooting a lot
* Reading/learning a lot

Thoughtful answers, thank you Nikolai.

Richard

Nik's list is a good one. I would add to it looking at the work of successful/famous photographers and painters and trying to understand what makes it tick.

BBstringer

Richard wrote: »

Nik's list is a good one. I would add to it looking at the work of successful/famous photographers and painters and trying to understand what makes it tick.

Richard, when I have asked this question in person (many times) with most photographers I've met and admired that answer is, by far, the one that I have received the most. It doesn't surprise me that it came up so quickly as a response here.

Thank you,

BradfordBenn

The biggest advances I have made come after shooting with someone and getting to have an exchange of ideas. Also a key item is to understand and be comfortable with your equipment, it is much easier to shoot if the camera is a tool that helps you not something that you have to configure. I know it is a small semantic difference, but I found that the more I know about operating my camera the less I think about that and the more I think about the images I am capturing.

Nikolai

BradfordBenn wrote: »

The biggest advances I have made come after shooting with someone and getting to have an exchange of ideas. Also a key item is to understand and be comfortable with your equipment, it is much easier to shoot if the camera is a tool that helps you not something that you have to configure. I know it is a small semantic difference, but I found that the more I know about operating my camera the less I think about that and the more I think about the images I am capturing.

"Thou shalt know thy gear" wink

chrisjohnson

I think there is so much emphasis on technique, gear, faithful reproduction, sharp focus, pp wizardry, and all that good stuff that we sometimes forget that photography is an art form. I have learned the most from looking at other peoples' works - a lot of which is viewable on Smugmug.

It is also not all about art. When we capture our family moments or those of others, it is not only about technical excellence, it is about capturing that expression and that moment. I like to look at the wedding thread. The really great images - for me - are those that capture the love.

I learn a lot from this community - both from their inspiration and their genuine technical knowledge.

ThatCanonGuy

Shooting a lot and getting critique. Not that I'm one of the better photogs around here.

This reminds me of someone on the DPReview forums, they went on a trip (Grand Canyon, I think) and bought some photos at a photo booth. I think he got 3 8x10s for $10 each. The person selling them was some guy named Adams.

BBstringer

goldenballs wrote: »

I think there is so much emphasis on technique, gear, faithful reproduction, sharp focus, pp wizardry, and all that good stuff that we sometimes forget that photography is an art form. I have learned the most from looking at other peoples' works - a lot of which is viewable on Smugmug.

It is also not all about art. When we capture our family moments or those of others, it is not only about technical excellence, it is about capturing that expression and that moment. I like to look at the wedding thread. The really great images - for me - are those that capture the love.

I learn a lot from this community - both from their inspiration and their genuine technical knowledge.

GB that is, in my opinion, exactly what elevates an image to"art". Capturing a moment. Even with the best I think those don't happen as often as we'd like. A timelessness or an entire world in one shot. Loosely quoting Ansel Adams; Three significant shots in a year is a pretty good crop so I'm not yet sure how realistic it might be to expect very many of those in one's shooting career. What allows us those moments? What training or insight takes a photographer to that next level? Thanks for your insight.

BBstringer

ThatCanonGuy wrote: »

Shooting a lot and getting critique. Not that I'm one of the better photogs around here.

This reminds me of someone on the DPReview forums, they went on a trip (Grand Canyon, I think) and bought some photos at a photo booth. I think he got 3 8x10s for $10 each. The person selling them was some guy named Adams.

I think that is going to be the "Golden Duo" out of the responses CG

amadeus

BBstringer wrote: »

Like any art there is a certain subjectivity to the answer but I'd love to hear from those of you who feel you've reached that tipping point in your work and what it was that really helped you achieve that. Makes no difference how long you've been shooting.

Asking questions and listening. And then ignoring the answers and seeing what works and what doesn't.

In other words learning from mistakes.

Nikolai

amadeus wrote: »

Asking questions and listening. And then ignoring the answers and seeing what works and what doesn't.

In other words learning from mistakes.

lol, so true...rofl

divamum

Shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, review, ask questions, figure out what worked/what didn't and why, go out and shoot some more. I can't begin to tell you the number of daft exercises I've set myself just to "see what worked and what didn't". Some of the have simply educated me, others have, in the process, led to some really fun shots as well as my technical education.

Digital is the best teacher there is - you can get it desperately wrong without spending a bean. And exif ftw! Even if you don't write settings down, the camera stores most of them for you so you can continue to process what did and didn't work as you review the shots.

Add to that the amazing input from folks here at dgrin - the best teachers I've had, without a doubt - and an insatiable desire to learn as much as I can and, more importantly, to put that knowledge into practice. I have a very - VERY - long way to go, but I've covered a lot of ground from where I started from too.

Oh, and I like Nik's martini theory too (although I prefer Blue Sapphire myself )

BBstringer

divamum wrote: »

Shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, review, ask questions, figure out what worked/what didn't and why, go out and shoot some more. I can't begin to tell you the number of daft exercises I've set myself just to "see what worked and what didn't". Some of the have simply educated me, others have, in the process, led to some really fun shots as well as my technical education.

Digital is the best teacher there is - you can get it desperately wrong without spending a bean. And exif ftw! Even if you don't write settings down, the camera stores most of them for you so you can continue to process what did and didn't work as you review the shots.

Add to that the amazing input from folks here at dgrin - the best teachers I've had, without a doubt - and an insatiable desire to learn as much as I can and, more importantly, to put that knowledge into practice. I have a very - VERY - long way to go, but I've covered a lot of ground from where I started from too.

Oh, and I like Nik's martini theory too (although I prefer Blue Sapphire myself )

Divamum, lovely points and you express them very well. Now I think you should figure out the formula for the martini theory....

Thank you...

BradfordBenn

Nikolai wrote: »

Steak, sashimi, and dirty grey goose martini

I hate to disagree but it would be:
Spinach, Nigiri, and Chopin martini desert dry

Sorry, Divamum the Blue Sapphire is right out unless served with Bleu Cheese Stuffed Olives.



Divar

BBstringer

BradfordBenn wrote: »

I hate to disagree but it would be:
Spinach, Nigiri, and Chopin martini desert dry

Sorry, Divamum the Blue Sapphire is right out unless served with Bleu Cheese Stuffed Olives.



Divar

Well, there's one thing for sure here...this group would make for one fascinating dinner party...I really mean that. Fascinating conversation and wonderful tastes in food.

BBstringer

richy wrote: »

Wine, women and song?

For me it was doing. I am a learn by breaking then fixing type of person. I shot and souped thousands of rolls of pound shop film and just kept trying out stuff. I did learn the basic mechanics from a book, but I liken it to driving a car or riding a motorbike, initially you are thinking about how to control your hands and feet to get the basics like changing gear done but after a while thats second nature, your body just does it. For me its the same with my fingers on a camera, I got from problem to correction without needing to figure out the middle stage as its second nature, then you are free to get your elbow down (to borrow a biking term).Not having to actively think about how to change iso or ss or focal point means your mind is free to think about the artistic side of it. I try to think what aren't I doing, how could I do this differently, what is the silliest shot I could get right now, I wonder what the view is like from that roof \ tree \ ocean.
The 'rules' of photography are great, it really helps to understand them so you can understand how and when to ignore them. NG have spent years selling a mag with blurry pictures (ok so the amazon ladies boob shots are sharp but they have to sell the mag somehow) and the shots actually work, the running zebra blurry mess springs to mind.
One massively important thing is to protect your love of photography, thats your motivation. You also need oppertunity, no good spending money on l glass if you dont get out and use it lots.
Being around folks who know their stuff, going to classes etc all very good ways but very much vary in usefulness person to person, just have to find whats best for you. Find your inspirations, master your control, then if you have an artistic side it will show.
Have fun folks

Fabulous Richy, very, very well said. You sound as though you are an eternal student (high praise I assure you) and I guess that is an underlying theme here isn't it? Eugen Herrigel at it's best. That last line truly hits the mark. Thank you.

Nikolai

richy wrote: »

And yes, I imagine it would be one serious dinner party! There would definitely be a need for taxis, and we may have to hide the karaoke machine.

That's the beauty of SM Shootouts: after a serious 14-hour shooting day you'd have some serious dinner party every night wink

BradfordBenn

richy wrote: »

And yes, I imagine it would be one serious dinner party! There would definitely be a need for taxis, and we may have to hide the karaoke machine.

I would pack my extra liver. And trust me you don't want me to perform karaoke.

david-low

Try this:
1) The art of looking at pictures can only be properly acquired by constantly looking at pictures....Dr S.D.Jouhar

BBstringer

david-low wrote: »

Try this:
1) The art of looking at pictures can only be properly acquired by constantly looking at pictures....Dr S.D.Jouhar

I like that perspective DL, it did take reading it a couple of times .

divamum

Find your inspirations, master your control, then if you have an artistic side it will show.

BBstringer wrote: »

Fabulous Richy, very, very well said. That last line truly hits the mark. Thank you.

Agreed. In fact, I think that's going to become my new favorite quote

BBstringer

divamum wrote: »

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Agreed. In fact, I think that's going to become my new favorite quote

I've thought on those words often...Richy, you need to write a book just so you can use that as a title. Marvelous

rmann

my actual teachers havent helped all that much, my main sorce being learning from my mistakes and just trying to be a general sponge for info (this site has helped alot, excellent snippets of info that just keeps coming). somtimes just wish the forums would get a bit more responsive, i have some threads with tons of views and a whole 5 comments to it (thanks to all who comment!) it'd be lovely if people commented more i'm still extremely happy i became a member here. best personal choice in my two years at college!

BBstringer

Better and better...
This thread is turning out better than I could have hoped....really thoughtful and thought provoking responses. Thanks to one and all. Keep it coming

BBstringer

richy wrote: »

Out of the mouths of chumps methinks lol, whats the one about a stopped clock? I'm not normally so succint as you may have noticed and it could have been phrased more gracefully lol Thank you for the kind words. I do wonder how you can tell if you are being artistick', its so subjective. Its not like we can turf the inside of a church and collect some prize money, I try and think randomly to get new ideas, is it art if you had an idea to try something without an accurate vision of the outcome? i.e. does inquisitiveness = art or does it even need to?

Enough deep finking, I'm cream crackered! Thank you again, would love to hear your thoughts.

rofl Richy you crack me up. Love it....