§ 140.05. Trespass.
A person is guilty of trespass when he knowingly enters or remains
unlawfully in or upon premises.
Trespass is a violation.
This statute does not apply to my situation- there was no trespass involved.
Thanks for the cite link. Now, go back and re-read my second paragraph. I stated this was a trespass issue from a criminal perspective, yet no crime was committed since you left when asked, ie: no trespass.
Fascinating that you respond to my agreeing that your camera is your property, but you do not respond at all to my pointing out that the store owner's and mall owner's property is theirs, and you have NO inherent right to photograph on their property.
And by the way, the fact that there is no law in New York against photography has nothing to do with whether a store owner can bar you from photographing on their property. There is also no law in New York against eating, but a store owner can bar you from eating in his or her store; there is no law against dancing, but you can be barred from dancing in a store.
The bottom line? You were wrong. Period. You over reacted. Period. Your background, your life story, your motives are all irrelevant to this discussion. Period.
Glad you got out of it. I was once caught inside military HQ compound where my friend lives. We where taken in for investigation and i offered them my camera of inspection, realizing i was an idiot who was shooting inside high security zone with threats of attacks. They didn't find any photo in camera which could cause an issue. i told them, i was asked anything on gate while entering with camera, they realized this was error which they need to fix... 2 weeks later suicide bomber made attempt to enter from same gate but failed....
Sometimes threats are genuine, common man may not understand importance of ban on certain things which BD mentioned. A friend of mine told me how photos are used to plan a suicide bomb attack... okay i think as a dgrin member i should share this with you.
Suicide bombers are very young kids, maximum age of 18 or 19 years, these are kids living far away from large cities in very remote areas, who could hardly understand national language, reading and writing is impossible for these kids. If they are suppose to blow particular target, photographs of that target are shown to them so they may explode once they reach the exact location which they saw in photo.
i agree sometimes ban sounds like idiotic and everything varies from country to country....
cheers and keep clicking where ever you can
Thine is the beauty of light; mine is the song of fire. Thy beauty exalts the heart; my song inspires the soul. Allama Iqbal
i support the OP in defending his rights. neither the store owner, security guards, or police had any right to search him or his property. that is the core issue, regardless of how the situation unfolded.
i support the OP in defending his rights. neither the store owner, security guards, or police had any right to search him or his property. that is the core issue, regardless of how the situation unfolded.
Did you take one of the shop owner as he was raging? That would be fun!
Z
It is the purpose of life that each of us strives to become actually what he is potentially. We should be obsessed with stretching towards that goal through the world we inhabit.
That's what I heard today for a dog-leash store owner that was mad because I took a picture in his store.
Here's how it went:
Store owner jumps "into my grill" and loudly demands:
"Give me that camera.. I want that camera!"
My answer: "F&%K You.. your not touching my camera!"
This implies you are still in the store when the 1st part of the altercation begins......
and this also shows you were abusive to the store owner from the getgo.......Your first statement
is verbally abusive and could have been heard by very small children that do not need to hear that kind of profanity
to begin with....this in of it self made you very wrong right off the bat.
I am not a cop, nor have I ever served in the armed forces (my father was both ex military and a cop, Il lost a brother in viet nam and my oldest brother is ex military and still a cop with well over 30 yrs and still going as a cop).....but I know my rights as a property owner and his following you was not impeding your ability to vacate the premises as quickly as possible.......the malls here in my area have not allowed photography inside of them for over 30 yrs......I still carry my cam in with me, as I refuse to leave it in my car but I also donot try to incite more probs by screaming at people that are owners or duly authorized agents for the mall owners by starting of screaming obsenities that I full well know can land me in jail and with a huge fine from a judge that thinks public obscenity should be trated wit has much consequence as attempted murder.......
Yes right off the bat you display a blatant disregard for other people by scream and using obscene foul language, when all the store owner had done was to ask for your camera and film....you had a knee jerk reaction and you blatantly did not care if there were small children or women or even men around that do not use that kind of language......you sir should have been arrested and charged with public obscenity and abuse...... as your 1st post is all the prosecutor would need to convict at least in 3 states I know of............
Asking for or demanding your camera give YOU NO right to go off on anyone....you only needed to respond with no, you're not getting my camera. period.....that is it...then you should have turned and left and let the store owner follow and if he was screaming at you ignored him...if a security guard stopped you then explain that the store owner was acting like a mad man and you were simply trying to leave the mall.......
But you sir make all of us that wield cameras for a hobby or living look extremely bad.
That is my piece and I will not return to this thread................
i support the OP in defending his rights. neither the store owner, security guards, or police had any right to search him or his property. that is the core issue, regardless of how the situation unfolded.
Apparently didn't read the OP's original report.
Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
Bob, as a former MOS, you really should have known that going EDP was going to get you nowhere fast. Anyone otj knowss that the less courtesy is shown, the less it will be reciprocated. Honestly, I'm surprised you weren't C'd or collared for discon after what you said transpired. IMO there were no "right" parties in this one. The proprietor of the store for agg harassment, the security for petit larceny, and you for discon. I agree the store owner went overboard, but at no point did the professionalism you were trained to exhibit manifest. A former MOS should know better. It really does make the rest of us look like morons. Have some vino and try to take it easy shipmate.
Wow I leave for a couple of weeks to get images ready for galleries and look at this mess...............
First of all I'm really amazed at the parental disposition being given towards Misterb, as always it's lonely at the top therefore what is understood need not be discussed and you won't find that on the lame Flickr site............ I agree that discourse is good however our commonality here is to be photographers helping each other. When your thin skinned to take your marbles and go home then not to return nothing was missed on your behalf from the start.
The best thing that happened was Misterb left the store when things started getting out of hand. The store manager sounds like he owns a Corvette and you got too close. Did the remarks made help the situation any? Honestly not then again had I been pursued and the guy didn't leave me alone after leaving the store there would've been far different outcome long before Paul Blart the mall cop showed up. Bet your butt they never would've laid a finger on my equipment. I've been at triple fatal fires and the only request that was made could you please provide copies of those at your earliest convenience?
Had the store owner simply would've stood his ground and provided a description of said photographer then he maintained good grounds for having him ejected from the mall property or to be arrested. As a former retail manager the officer in a like situation related to me the following "it's one thing to demand someone leave your store and the minute you leave the premises pursuing anyone in such a manner to include yelling you've become the AGGERSSOR then your the one headed down for booking".
Hats off to mall security it sounds like they have been trained really well on many situations to include a rabid store owner who believed he was being set up for a terrorist attack, that man needs to visit his therapist.
Besides its apparent the malls in the Midwest aren't the only ones infested with rude nasty retail hourly employees & their managers who could care less if you had a good experience in their store. My answer is to buy either from smaller stores or simply on line then possibility of being chased out of a store for stupid reasons are greatly reduced.
This thread is now closed. You can find a link to an informative discussion of photographer's rights written by an attorney in the sticky at the top of the forum.
Comments
Thanks for the cite link. Now, go back and re-read my second paragraph. I stated this was a trespass issue from a criminal perspective, yet no crime was committed since you left when asked, ie: no trespass.
Fascinating that you respond to my agreeing that your camera is your property, but you do not respond at all to my pointing out that the store owner's and mall owner's property is theirs, and you have NO inherent right to photograph on their property.
And by the way, the fact that there is no law in New York against photography has nothing to do with whether a store owner can bar you from photographing on their property. There is also no law in New York against eating, but a store owner can bar you from eating in his or her store; there is no law against dancing, but you can be barred from dancing in a store.
The bottom line? You were wrong. Period. You over reacted. Period. Your background, your life story, your motives are all irrelevant to this discussion. Period.
"He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan
"The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
Sometimes threats are genuine, common man may not understand importance of ban on certain things which BD mentioned. A friend of mine told me how photos are used to plan a suicide bomb attack... okay i think as a dgrin member i should share this with you.
Suicide bombers are very young kids, maximum age of 18 or 19 years, these are kids living far away from large cities in very remote areas, who could hardly understand national language, reading and writing is impossible for these kids. If they are suppose to blow particular target, photographs of that target are shown to them so they may explode once they reach the exact location which they saw in photo.
i agree sometimes ban sounds like idiotic and everything varies from country to country....
cheers and keep clicking where ever you can
My Gallery
I left his store- he actively followed me and made a scene, ruining my day.
I'm sorry.. civility goes out the window when you start busting my balls.
Simple enough for you to understand, BD?
Ahhh- a breath of fresh air in a stagnant room.
Oh, you've made your position eminently clear.
"He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan
"The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
Did you take one of the shop owner as he was raging? That would be fun!
Z
Didn't even come out good.. that's the funny part.
This implies you are still in the store when the 1st part of the altercation begins......
and this also shows you were abusive to the store owner from the getgo.......Your first statement
is verbally abusive and could have been heard by very small children that do not need to hear that kind of profanity
to begin with....this in of it self made you very wrong right off the bat.
I am not a cop, nor have I ever served in the armed forces (my father was both ex military and a cop, Il lost a brother in viet nam and my oldest brother is ex military and still a cop with well over 30 yrs and still going as a cop).....but I know my rights as a property owner and his following you was not impeding your ability to vacate the premises as quickly as possible.......the malls here in my area have not allowed photography inside of them for over 30 yrs......I still carry my cam in with me, as I refuse to leave it in my car but I also donot try to incite more probs by screaming at people that are owners or duly authorized agents for the mall owners by starting of screaming obsenities that I full well know can land me in jail and with a huge fine from a judge that thinks public obscenity should be trated wit has much consequence as attempted murder.......
Yes right off the bat you display a blatant disregard for other people by scream and using obscene foul language, when all the store owner had done was to ask for your camera and film....you had a knee jerk reaction and you blatantly did not care if there were small children or women or even men around that do not use that kind of language......you sir should have been arrested and charged with public obscenity and abuse...... as your 1st post is all the prosecutor would need to convict at least in 3 states I know of............
Asking for or demanding your camera give YOU NO right to go off on anyone....you only needed to respond with no, you're not getting my camera. period.....that is it...then you should have turned and left and let the store owner follow and if he was screaming at you ignored him...if a security guard stopped you then explain that the store owner was acting like a mad man and you were simply trying to leave the mall.......
But you sir make all of us that wield cameras for a hobby or living look extremely bad.
That is my piece and I will not return to this thread................
Apparently didn't read the OP's original report.
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was the original report in a different thread?
First of all I'm really amazed at the parental disposition being given towards Misterb, as always it's lonely at the top therefore what is understood need not be discussed and you won't find that on the lame Flickr site............ I agree that discourse is good however our commonality here is to be photographers helping each other. When your thin skinned to take your marbles and go home then not to return nothing was missed on your behalf from the start.
The best thing that happened was Misterb left the store when things started getting out of hand. The store manager sounds like he owns a Corvette and you got too close. Did the remarks made help the situation any? Honestly not then again had I been pursued and the guy didn't leave me alone after leaving the store there would've been far different outcome long before Paul Blart the mall cop showed up. Bet your butt they never would've laid a finger on my equipment. I've been at triple fatal fires and the only request that was made could you please provide copies of those at your earliest convenience?
Had the store owner simply would've stood his ground and provided a description of said photographer then he maintained good grounds for having him ejected from the mall property or to be arrested. As a former retail manager the officer in a like situation related to me the following "it's one thing to demand someone leave your store and the minute you leave the premises pursuing anyone in such a manner to include yelling you've become the AGGERSSOR then your the one headed down for booking".
Hats off to mall security it sounds like they have been trained really well on many situations to include a rabid store owner who believed he was being set up for a terrorist attack, that man needs to visit his therapist.
Besides its apparent the malls in the Midwest aren't the only ones infested with rude nasty retail hourly employees & their managers who could care less if you had a good experience in their store. My answer is to buy either from smaller stores or simply on line then possibility of being chased out of a store for stupid reasons are greatly reduced.
Hang on depending on the zip code we could find the store owner a good therapist...........
twin Mark IV's & a bunch of "L" glass
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