I had a d90 hanging on black rapid strap as I was dual wieldiing during paid shoot. The setting were all fixed for teh light in the room...shot a few frames on the one camera then switched to the d90..the mode dial had slipped as the cmaera bumped against my body. Took me 30 sec or so to figure it out and I did miss a few shots that way. I sold my d90 a few mornths later partly with that incident in mind. Yeah it doesn't take long to figure out but peace of mind is worth it.
I had a d90 hanging on black rapid strap as I was dual wieldiing during paid shoot. The setting were all fixed for teh light in the room...shot a few frames on the one camera then switched to the d90..the mode dial had slipped as the cmaera bumped against my body. Took me 30 sec or so to figure it out and I did miss a few shots that way. I sold my d90 a few mornths later partly with that incident in mind. Yeah it doesn't take long to figure out but peace of mind is worth it.
Yeah, too, if you can remember if the lock is on or off! Doesn't it still come down to checking??
We poke fun at nikon but we are very glad to have an alternative and to have serious competition to force improvements. Now sony are slowly joining the fray things are even better!
Thanks - looks like you have the cure to sobriety in that link!D
Yeah, competition etc etc is fine, but it's also tech excesses for the sole purpose of more filthy lucre and no finer.
When I'm travelling, my 40d usually rests on the seat next to me (4x4 pickup) and the mode dial often moves. The most frustrating position it gets to is the stupid A-DEP mode.
<< The most frustrating position it gets to is the stupid A-DEP mode >>
Same experience here - also with a 40D. Just arrived at local venue after a bike ride (in winter), in hurry to extricate cam/lens from rucksack as I could see a scenario starting to develop, so failed to notice said mode change. Yes, my fault for not doing the 'pre-flight' scan/check on this occasion - but such things happen in the (my) real world - especially if not firing on all cylinders for some reason. No longer an issue as now using a different body.
That right there is what we call Crawfishin' in Texas ~ trying to go backward on a statement.
Nobody (especially this thread) was referring to Pro bodies...
And certainly, you couldn't think that you could bump the controls easily on the Canon 1D series, could you (If we were to consider Pro bodies)
About the original subject; I like options, and I appreciate that Canon even offers them
Thanks, Randy.
I posted this to be helpful to others that may have a problem as I do.
My IQ is, well...not low.
Somehow I'm now some kind of slug...or could it be that I'm 62 with failing eyes and dexterity? So for you folks that are so intellectually...monetarily...and physically blessed , please ignore this post like I do your self serving, sickening banter.
I would welcome a 7D dial that wouldn't change on its own. I do a lot of
"emergency bird stops" and usually find "after a couple shots" the dial has
changed. So "in the heat of the moment" whatever it's set at stays until I
can chimp after the first series of shots.
I remember one time when the settings landed on something, don't remember
because I eventually switched to Av, that gave some really wild auto
settings. ISO 2500, f22, .jpg .... Although the photos came out adequate I
lost the raw setting.
That right there is what we call Crawfishin' in Texas ~ trying to go backward on a statement.
Nobody (especially this thread) was referring to Pro bodies...
And certainly, you couldn't think that you could bump the controls easily on the Canon 1D series, could you (If we were to consider Pro bodies)
About the original subject; I like options, and I appreciate that Canon even offers them
You'll have to forgive me for making assumptions about professional considerations, I understand that many people here are hobbyists.
However my point here was always the fact that while Canon's 7D and 5D mk2 have the mode dial in common with beginner DSLR's, Nikon puts it's professional controls into the D300 and D700. From the standpoint of control layout and price range, I prefer that consistency. That's all I'm saying.
I will give Canon credit though- Their ISO is in much better location on both their semi-pro and pro cameras, where you can get to it with your right hand while shooting. I wish Nikon would give us this option...
You'll have to forgive me for making assumptions about professional considerations, I understand that many people here are hobbyists.
However my point here was always the fact that while Canon's 7D and 5D mk2 have the mode dial in common with beginner DSLR's, Nikon puts it's professional controls into the D300 and D700. From the standpoint of control layout and price range, I prefer that consistency. That's all I'm saying.
I will give Canon credit though- Their ISO is in much better location on both their semi-pro and pro cameras, where you can get to it with your right hand while shooting. I wish Nikon would give us this option...
=Matt=
For the kinds of reasons that I have already mentioned (the relevance of tech in photography needs to be put in context) I think your creation of apartheid between pro and not-pro gear is a bit fartificial, sorry, artificial. Snobbish as well, because you are in effect saying that if pros and non-pros use the same camera model, the pros are thereby demoted as photographers to the lowest level of user. Like saying when I drive a Nissan 350Z I am a superior driver than when I drive a Nissan Micra. Doesn't gel. It reminds me of cargo-cult thinking. OK, "pros" might not need a mode dial to take a photograph, but the fact that it's on the camera they are using is irrelevant to their expertise. And to put it positively, and to echo Randy, a mode dial is an option which is not by its nature irrelevant to a pro's shooting choices. Indeed, I think part of the meaning of "pro" is the ability to roam all manner of tech with great results, and not to be shut up in the space of "pro" gear exclusively.
I posted this to be helpful to others that may have a problem as I do.
My IQ is, well...not low.
Somehow I'm now some kind of slug...or could it be that I'm 62 with failing eyes and dexterity? So for you folks that are so intellectually...monetarily...and physically blessed , please ignore this post like I do your self serving, sickening banter.
I think your post was fine, Ric! Thanks for it. We have been enjoying it in the true spirit of this community of friends which is Dgrin, that is having fun and treating comments seriously at the same time.clap
For the kinds of reasons that I have already mentioned (the relevance of tech in photography needs to be put in context) I think your creation of apartheid between pro and not-pro gear is a bit fartificial, sorry, artificial. Snobbish as well, because you are in effect saying that if pros and non-pros use the same camera model, the pros are thereby demoted as photographers to the lowest level of user. Like saying when I drive a Nissan 350Z I am a superior driver than when I drive a Nissan Micra. Doesn't gel. It reminds me of cargo-cult thinking. OK, "pros" might not need a mode dial to take a photograph, but the fact that it's on the camera they are using is irrelevant to their expertise. And to put it positively, and to echo Randy, a mode dial is an option which is not by its nature irrelevant to a pro's shooting choices. Indeed, I think part of the meaning of "pro" is the ability to roam all manner of tech with great results, and not to be shut up in the space of "pro" gear exclusively.
Neil
Hey, I'm sorry that my attempts at being conversational on the internet are mis-interpreted. The internet often does that, as we all know.
Yes I express a biased opinion, but I know full well that the camera (especially the body) is by far the least important aspect of a meaningful image, and more importantly, the professional or amateur status of a photographer usually has nothing to do with the (artistic) quality of images they produce.
So let me re-state my points without all the misconstrued chit-chat:
* I prefer certain camera controls. It's not right or wrong, not pro or amateur, it's just preference.
* For example I don't like where Nikon puts it's ISO control, but neither do I like how Canon implements it's exposure mode control. Locked dial or not, amateur or pro, ...it's just in a bad spot for me.
* I like controls to be consistent on all the cameras I use. I'm not handicapped by different controls or anything, in fact I know both Nikon and Canon systems like the back of my hand, which is more than most can say. The point is- unless you only ever shoot still-lifes, you'll usually perform best when shooting with cameras that have identical controls.
* Nikon offers more consistency-of-control than Canon does, across a wider price range of cameras. That is just a fact.
* And for the record, I don't look down on other photographers because of their camera or it's controls. However it doesn't help my opinion of someone when THEY act snobbish about their business success, or the "size of their lens" ...when THEIR camera body still has a mode dial with a green box on it. I'm not talking about anyone in this community, but I'm sure everybody has met at least one person who fits that description.
* I don't make any claims about my professional status, nor the prestige of my camera bag. But I do prefer certain controls that some cameras offer, and other cameras don't.
* And for the record, I don't look down on other photographers because of their camera or it's controls. However it doesn't help my opinion of someone when THEY act snobbish about their business success, or the "size of their lens" ...when THEIR camera body still has a mode dial with a green box on it. I'm not talking about anyone in this community, but I'm sure everybody has met at least one person who fits that description.
=Matt=
Maybe some people prefer the 5D as it is lighter and smaller, especially women? Maybe a 1D wouldn't give them any benefit over the 5D for what they do? The 1D is a crop body and the 1Ds is not so good at high ISO for a start.
Also I would just like to point out that your second sentence flies right in the face of the first.
Maybe some people prefer the 5D as it is lighter and smaller, especially women? Maybe a 1D wouldn't give them any benefit over the 5D for what they do? The 1D is a crop body and the 1Ds is not so good at high ISO for a start.
Also I would just like to point out that your second sentence flies right in the face of the first.
I know women photographers who, indeed, don't like heavy cameras and the 5-series is perfect for them. You're right, Canon is clever and they're purposely filling that position in the market.
Now before you call me sexist....I also know women photographers who can rock a 1D mk3 and 70-200 2.8 IS or 85 1.2 for an entire wedding day. So I'm not labeling women as wimps. I'm just saying there's a market for a camera that subtly caters to women. In fact, Sony has specifically taken women into mind when designing their cameras, according to Me Ra Koh.
...Regarding my statement that I don't look down on a photographer because of their equipment, yet dislike the ones who act snobbish especially when they use "advanced amateur" equipment - I think that contradiction is easy to understand in the real world. Once you meet someone like that, you'll know what I mean.
Of course I guess it wouldn't help if a "snob" used a flagship camera either. I just tend to dislike people who act like that, and I hope that (in real life) I am not perceived that way by others...
Of course I guess it wouldn't help if a "snob" used a flagship camera either. I just tend to dislike people who act like that, and I hope that (in real life) I am not perceived that way by others...=Matt=
Then have you given up the idea that a mode dial means something about the photographer? You could have saved us our concern for your concern about uncle bobs.D
Then have you given up the idea that a mode dial means something about the photographer? You could have saved us our concern for your concern about uncle bobs.D
Neil
Just so long as they're not acting pretentious about their camera. Moral of my story: Don't be pretentious if your camera still has a dial with a green box on it...
Or getting in my way , shooting under my arm or over my head lol then posting them on their 'portfolio' (on facebook) for their wedding photography business Then its death in a vat of boiling snot time.
Just so long as they're not acting pretentious about their camera. Moral of my story: Don't be pretentious if your camera still has a dial with a green box on it...
=Matt=
When I was a kid and anyone told us what NOT to do we used to say "It's a free country!" Guess times have changed...
I must admit I am confused as to why people use the green square. Av is easy. You move one dial up or down based on how much shutter speed you need or how much you want in focus, if you cant get a match bump the iso.
It's only simple for those who understand the relationship between aperture and DOF. And who know what DOF is.
Most Uncle Bobs don't know what aperture or DOF even are, much less how they relate to each other, so they have no reason to mess with those settings.
There is a huge propensity among average people for wanting "things" to do "stuff" automatically. They want cars to drive themselves, they want meals that cook themselves, and they want cameras that "take great pictures", meaning that they don't want to learn photography, they just want the camera to magically take a beautiful picture without any input from the user other than pushing a single button. And the Green Box, with its official title of Automatic Mode, promises just that, which is why so many people buy SLRs (because "they take great pictures") and then don't bother to learn how to use them (because "it works automatically in this mode").
What I said when I saw the Grand Canyon for the first time: "The wide ain't wide enough and the zoom don't zoom enough!"
True you have freedom of action within the law which is important, its a right (at least here) but that right comes with responsibilities. Other people also have the right to think you are a wazzock for doing something that seems illogical, like buying an expensive camera and not fully utilising it but acting like the lovechild of bailey and bresson.
For me the unforgiveable aspect is the selfishness with which bobs will stuff up the brides pictures just so they can get one. A lady a while back tried to walk in front of me just as the bride reached the end of the isle. She could have got the shot from her side of the isle or walked around me, but no she walked in front, or at least until I held me arm out to stop her. sorry my pet peeve lol
I must admit I am confused as to why people use the green square. Av is easy. You move one dial up or down based on how much shutter speed you need or how much you want in focus, if you cant get a match bump the iso. Its not being macho, its really simple, whats that indian proverb about eating with a knife and fork being like making love through an interpreter, why put a barrier between yourself and the camera? Seriously i could write the bob files about the junk Ive seen, like iso 3200 in full afternoon 40 degree sun. Enthusiasm is awesome, being a tart is not. People have the freedom to be tarts, I have the freedom to laugh at them Its all good.
Richy, please forgive me if I say all that sounds to me like an extract from the Monty Python Photographer's Handbook!Dhide
Or maybe what I'd find on a laminated sheet in the bedside cabinet in a room at Fawlty Towers instead of a Gideon's!Dhide
But maybe that's a compliment???!! Yes, I think it is! Let's go with that!
It's one thing that there are people less perfect, less logical, in short dummer than oneself in the world. It's quite another to say that they should not be what they are, should cease to exist, phlegmlonnielogikally speekin. No, it just don't do to issue fatwas like you shouldn't have a knob with a green square if you're gonna be more of a bob than me! Consider where you'd be going. Down the thin end of the wedge on a slippery slope, that's where.
It's only simple for those who understand the relationship between aperture and DOF. And who know what DOF is.
Most Uncle Bobs don't know what aperture or DOF even are, much less how they relate to each other, so they have no reason to mess with those settings.
There is a huge propensity among average people for wanting "things" to do "stuff" automatically. They want cars to drive themselves, they want meals that cook themselves, and they want cameras that "take great pictures", meaning that they don't want to learn photography, they just want the camera to magically take a beautiful picture without any input from the user other than pushing a single button. And the Green Box, with its official title of Automatic Mode, promises just that, which is why so many people buy SLRs (because "they take great pictures") and then don't bother to learn how to use them (because "it works automatically in this mode").
Quite so! And this casts into doubt whether bob is a viable concept, whether it's logical that a bob can exist at all.:cavigdavidto (Ooh I think I'm gonna go again!)
my bro just got his first dslr, a oly E620. he is going where we've all been, getting his head around stuff. I advised him not to get too frustrated initially trying to use the manual controls and possibly watching a succession of awful stuff issuing forth. but to set it on automatic and just go out and have fun with it. it can in fact produce good shot after good shot without any input from the tog more than not pointing it at the sun and that kind of thing. I think it's better to have a simple and positive start to the relationship, then, like after the honeymoon, you can get more manipulative and calculating and scheming!
my bro just got his first dslr, a oly E620. he is going where we've all been, getting his head around stuff. I advised him not to get too frustrated initially trying to use the manual controls and possibly watching a succession of awful stuff issuing forth. but to set it on automatic and just go out and have fun with it. it can in fact produce good shot after good shot without any input from the tog more than not pointing it at the sun and that kind of thing. I think it's better to have a simple and positive start to the relationship, then, like after the honeymoon, you can get more manipulative and calculating and scheming!
neil
To me the green rectangle is like the print button. Of no use to me, but it does no harm either. Not sure why anyone would get upset about having it TBH. Also, P mode is pretty much the same thing in any case and I hardly ever use that either, but at least it's not limited to JPEGs, so I guess it's an emergency option if you've got the thing in some unusual custom mode and you instantly need to get a shot because somebody just shot the queen etc.
Comments
Yes, indeed, the Cinderella of the IQ debate!
Neil
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
Cons: (Irrelevant parts deleted)
Link to my Smugmug site
14-24 24-70 70-200mm (vr2)
85 and 50 1.4
45 PC and sb910 x2
http://www.danielkimphotography.com
Oh so sweetly murdered!! (is that Shakespeare?)
Neil
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
Yes, would you please do that (= link?)
Neil
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
Yeah, too, if you can remember if the lock is on or off! Doesn't it still come down to checking??
Neil
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
Thanks - looks like you have the cure to sobriety in that link!
Yeah, competition etc etc is fine, but it's also tech excesses for the sole purpose of more filthy lucre and no finer.
Neil
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
Bugs
Spiders
Flowers
Same experience here - also with a 40D.
Just arrived at local venue after a bike ride (in winter), in hurry to extricate cam/lens from rucksack as I could see a scenario starting to develop, so failed to notice said mode change.
Yes, my fault for not doing the 'pre-flight' scan/check on this occasion - but such things happen in the (my) real world - especially if not firing on all cylinders for some reason.
No longer an issue as now using a different body.
pp
Flickr
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
That right there is what we call Crawfishin' in Texas ~ trying to go backward on a statement.
Nobody (especially this thread) was referring to Pro bodies...
And certainly, you couldn't think that you could bump the controls easily on the Canon 1D series, could you
About the original subject; I like options, and I appreciate that Canon even offers them
Thanks, Randy.
I posted this to be helpful to others that may have a problem as I do.
My IQ is, well...not low.
Somehow I'm now some kind of slug...or could it be that I'm 62 with failing eyes and dexterity? So for you folks that are so intellectually...monetarily...and physically blessed , please ignore this post like I do your self serving, sickening banter.
"emergency bird stops" and usually find "after a couple shots" the dial has
changed. So "in the heat of the moment" whatever it's set at stays until I
can chimp after the first series of shots.
I remember one time when the settings landed on something, don't remember
because I eventually switched to Av, that gave some really wild auto
settings. ISO 2500, f22, .jpg .... Although the photos came out adequate I
lost the raw setting.
My Website index | My Blog
You'll have to forgive me for making assumptions about professional considerations, I understand that many people here are hobbyists.
However my point here was always the fact that while Canon's 7D and 5D mk2 have the mode dial in common with beginner DSLR's, Nikon puts it's professional controls into the D300 and D700. From the standpoint of control layout and price range, I prefer that consistency. That's all I'm saying.
I will give Canon credit though- Their ISO is in much better location on both their semi-pro and pro cameras, where you can get to it with your right hand while shooting. I wish Nikon would give us this option...
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
For the kinds of reasons that I have already mentioned (the relevance of tech in photography needs to be put in context) I think your creation of apartheid between pro and not-pro gear is a bit fartificial, sorry, artificial. Snobbish as well, because you are in effect saying that if pros and non-pros use the same camera model, the pros are thereby demoted as photographers to the lowest level of user. Like saying when I drive a Nissan 350Z I am a superior driver than when I drive a Nissan Micra. Doesn't gel. It reminds me of cargo-cult thinking. OK, "pros" might not need a mode dial to take a photograph, but the fact that it's on the camera they are using is irrelevant to their expertise. And to put it positively, and to echo Randy, a mode dial is an option which is not by its nature irrelevant to a pro's shooting choices. Indeed, I think part of the meaning of "pro" is the ability to roam all manner of tech with great results, and not to be shut up in the space of "pro" gear exclusively.
Neil
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
I think your post was fine, Ric! Thanks for it. We have been enjoying it in the true spirit of this community of friends which is Dgrin, that is having fun and treating comments seriously at the same time.
Neil
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
Man does not live by patched nutrients alone.
Yes I express a biased opinion, but I know full well that the camera (especially the body) is by far the least important aspect of a meaningful image, and more importantly, the professional or amateur status of a photographer usually has nothing to do with the (artistic) quality of images they produce.
So let me re-state my points without all the misconstrued chit-chat:
* I prefer certain camera controls. It's not right or wrong, not pro or amateur, it's just preference.
* For example I don't like where Nikon puts it's ISO control, but neither do I like how Canon implements it's exposure mode control. Locked dial or not, amateur or pro, ...it's just in a bad spot for me.
* I like controls to be consistent on all the cameras I use. I'm not handicapped by different controls or anything, in fact I know both Nikon and Canon systems like the back of my hand, which is more than most can say. The point is- unless you only ever shoot still-lifes, you'll usually perform best when shooting with cameras that have identical controls.
* Nikon offers more consistency-of-control than Canon does, across a wider price range of cameras. That is just a fact.
* And for the record, I don't look down on other photographers because of their camera or it's controls. However it doesn't help my opinion of someone when THEY act snobbish about their business success, or the "size of their lens" ...when THEIR camera body still has a mode dial with a green box on it. I'm not talking about anyone in this community, but I'm sure everybody has met at least one person who fits that description.
* I don't make any claims about my professional status, nor the prestige of my camera bag. But I do prefer certain controls that some cameras offer, and other cameras don't.
Take care,
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
Maybe some people prefer the 5D as it is lighter and smaller, especially women? Maybe a 1D wouldn't give them any benefit over the 5D for what they do? The 1D is a crop body and the 1Ds is not so good at high ISO for a start.
Also I would just like to point out that your second sentence flies right in the face of the first.
Now before you call me sexist....I also know women photographers who can rock a 1D mk3 and 70-200 2.8 IS or 85 1.2 for an entire wedding day. So I'm not labeling women as wimps. I'm just saying there's a market for a camera that subtly caters to women. In fact, Sony has specifically taken women into mind when designing their cameras, according to Me Ra Koh.
...Regarding my statement that I don't look down on a photographer because of their equipment, yet dislike the ones who act snobbish especially when they use "advanced amateur" equipment - I think that contradiction is easy to understand in the real world. Once you meet someone like that, you'll know what I mean.
Of course I guess it wouldn't help if a "snob" used a flagship camera either. I just tend to dislike people who act like that, and I hope that (in real life) I am not perceived that way by others...
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
Then have you given up the idea that a mode dial means something about the photographer? You could have saved us our concern for your concern about uncle bobs.
Neil
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
ooh! kinky!:puke
Neil
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
When I was a kid and anyone told us what NOT to do we used to say "It's a free country!" Guess times have changed...
Neil
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
It's only simple for those who understand the relationship between aperture and DOF. And who know what DOF is.
Most Uncle Bobs don't know what aperture or DOF even are, much less how they relate to each other, so they have no reason to mess with those settings.
There is a huge propensity among average people for wanting "things" to do "stuff" automatically. They want cars to drive themselves, they want meals that cook themselves, and they want cameras that "take great pictures", meaning that they don't want to learn photography, they just want the camera to magically take a beautiful picture without any input from the user other than pushing a single button. And the Green Box, with its official title of Automatic Mode, promises just that, which is why so many people buy SLRs (because "they take great pictures") and then don't bother to learn how to use them (because "it works automatically in this mode").
Richy, please forgive me if I say all that sounds to me like an extract from the Monty Python Photographer's Handbook!
Or maybe what I'd find on a laminated sheet in the bedside cabinet in a room at Fawlty Towers instead of a Gideon's!
But maybe that's a compliment???!! Yes, I think it is! Let's go with that!
It's one thing that there are people less perfect, less logical, in short dummer than oneself in the world. It's quite another to say that they should not be what they are, should cease to exist, phlegmlonnielogikally speekin. No, it just don't do to issue fatwas like you shouldn't have a knob with a green square if you're gonna be more of a bob than me! Consider where you'd be going. Down the thin end of the wedge on a slippery slope, that's where.
(Ah! emoticon orgasm is a wunderful thing!)
(Neil)
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
Quite so!
(Neil)
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
my bro just got his first dslr, a oly E620. he is going where we've all been, getting his head around stuff. I advised him not to get too frustrated initially trying to use the manual controls and possibly watching a succession of awful stuff issuing forth. but to set it on automatic and just go out and have fun with it. it can in fact produce good shot after good shot without any input from the tog more than not pointing it at the sun and that kind of thing. I think it's better to have a simple and positive start to the relationship, then, like after the honeymoon, you can get more manipulative and calculating and scheming!
neil
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
To me the green rectangle is like the print button. Of no use to me, but it does no harm either. Not sure why anyone would get upset about having it TBH. Also, P mode is pretty much the same thing in any case and I hardly ever use that either, but at least it's not limited to JPEGs, so I guess it's an emergency option if you've got the thing in some unusual custom mode and you instantly need to get a shot because somebody just shot the queen etc.