24x24 Softbox

divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
edited December 16, 2010 in Accessories
Inspired by using Llywellyn's fantastic Lastolite SB on our shoot last weekend, I'm considering adding one to my collection to use with my speedlights.

The Lastolite is fantastic, but it's also seriously pricey at over $200. I know you get what you pay for, but that's way outside my budget, and I saw a couple of folks over at Strobist mentioned this model. Anybody here ever use one?

Cowboy 24" softbox w/L bracket

I also see there's a 24x32 Westcott at Adorama is interesting (especially since you can add grids), but I'm wondering if the larger size will overlap with my 45" Photek and make it somewhat redundant (although it might be interesting to use it vertically). Also, it's not clear whether there's a speedlight ring/mount.

Alternatively, any others to consider?
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Comments

  • ZanottiZanotti Registered Users Posts: 1,411 Major grins
    edited December 4, 2010
    http://www.cheetahstand.com/servlet/the-38/Cheetah-Qbox-24/Detail

    I have the 16" model and find it pretty well built.
    It is the purpose of life that each of us strives to become actually what he is potentially. We should be obsessed with stretching towards that goal through the world we inhabit.
  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited December 4, 2010
    Ooo, tx - good catch! They look to have some pretty great products in general, and I love that their SB comes with the grid, too. I may well consider one of these. Which adapter does one need for speedlights?

    Tx!
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,133 moderator
    edited December 4, 2010
    I am still enamored with the Photek Softliter II 60". For a large-ish portable light modifier it is relatively inexpensive, gorgeous light and rapid setup. It can be setup as:
    • Softliter, with a light similar to a softbox. If you need a square or rectangular catch light you could add a bezel in the correct shape. (I prefer a round catch light myself.)
    • Conventional umbrella, just remove the Softliter diffuser-cover and you get a plain, ten-panel, white umbrella of very high quality.
    • Shoot-through umbrella, remove the black cover and reverse the direction to get a shoot-through light.

    (Edit: The 60" Softliter is approximately the same size light as a 36" square softbox. Don't be misled by the different methods of measurement.)

    I do recommend the 8mm shaft that has a removable section, both for safety and to allow shooting closer to the subject.

    http://www.adorama.com/PTSL60.html

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/75852-REG/Photek_SL_6000_Umbrella_Softlighter_II.html
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited December 4, 2010
    I love my Photek 45", Ziggy - nobody's a bigger fan than I am! It's usually my first-choice among my modifiers for softbox-style lighting indoors. Love the thing. thumb.gif

    But shooting outdoors the other day, the Lastolite SB was invaluable where the Photek would've been awkward: it was much easier to hold and manipulate on a handheld (VAL) boom; it didn't catch the wind as the umbrella-shaped items; less lightspill away from the subjects; light more directional than even the Photek (and I can imagine with grids that would be even moreso). It would also be great indoors on a second light for hairlight (with the Photek used for key) - the light qualities are similar, and I can imagine with the SG it would be nicely controllable. I use my homemade "soda carton" softbox a lot, but it's sometimes a little small (plus I can't fold it up to put in my gear bag).
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,133 moderator
    edited December 4, 2010
    Gotcha. thumb.gif

    I have to say I'm fairly impressed with the few examples that I see of the CowboyStudio version. For a head shot application it looks to be very nice.
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • LlywellynLlywellyn Registered Users, Retired Mod Posts: 3,186 Major grins
    edited December 4, 2010
    Muahahaha! naughty.gif

    I'm not familiar with Cowboy, but I'd trust most Strobist reader recommendations.
  • yendikenoyendikeno Registered Users Posts: 214 Major grins
    edited December 4, 2010
    Another source
    you can check for reasonably priced gear is www.alzodigital.com.
    Regards,
    AZFred
  • NeilLNeilL Registered Users Posts: 4,201 Major grins
    edited December 4, 2010
    Good thread!

    Neil
    "Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

    http://www.behance.net/brosepix
  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited December 4, 2010
    Zanotti wrote: »
    http://www.cheetahstand.com/servlet/the-38/Cheetah-Qbox-24/Detail

    I have the 16" model and find it pretty well built.

    Another question, Zanotti - any samples shot with the smaller 16" box? I'm beginning to think the 24" might be too big, and would be interested to see results from the smaller one... thumb.gif
  • ARKreationsARKreations Registered Users Posts: 265 Major grins
    edited December 4, 2010
    You might want to have a look at the Westcott Apollo 28" softbox as well. It collapses like an umbrella and works great with a speedlight.
    Ross - ARKreations Photography
    http://www.arkreations.com
    Nikon D700 | D300 | D80 | SB-800(x2) | SB-600(x2)
    Nikkor Lenses: 14-24 f/2.8 | 24-70 f/2.8 | 50 f/1.8 | 85 f/1.4 | 70-200 f/2.8 VR II | 70-300 VR
  • ChatKatChatKat Registered Users Posts: 1,357 Major grins
    edited December 5, 2010
    Apollo
    I was going to suggest the Wescott Apollo's. I have a couple of them and really like them. Easy up and down and meant for speedlite use. Pop a 580ex on a lightstand with an umbrella mount and you're good to snap. Easy to move too. i have the Canon battery packs for my speedlights so there is plenty of power. Two of the Apollo's are lovely if you need help.
    Kathy Rappaport
    Flash Frozen Photography, Inc.
    http://flashfrozenphotography.com
  • IcebearIcebear Registered Users Posts: 4,015 Major grins
    edited December 5, 2010
    I really like my Lastolite Eazybox Hotshoe. The thing seems built to "Last":D. I am a big believer in buying quality the first time, 'cause I spend less in the long run. YMMV. I watched the Cheetastand video, and that kit looks pretty economical, but I wasn't impressed with my perception of its beefiness. I mean come on . . . you can fold it up into a coffee can. That implies to me that its fabric and frame is less robust than the Lastolite. I have to say i did like the little ball head thingy though. I bought my Eazybox at a local shop after comparing it pretty thoroughly with several other similar products on display.

    I also like my 60" Softlighter, but they serve different needs for me.
    John :
    Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
    D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
  • IcebearIcebear Registered Users Posts: 4,015 Major grins
    edited December 5, 2010
    You might want to have a look at the Westcott Apollo 28" softbox as well. It collapses like an umbrella and works great with a speedlight.

    For you Nikon shooters, enamoured with CLS, be aware that the Apollo system involves locating your speedlight INSIDE the softbox, shooting back into the "umbrella" whilst surrounded by the blackout reflective fabric of the softbox. I have serious doubts that the signal from the on-camera commander would be able to reliably communicate with the hidden speedlight. If you use cords or radio slaves you should be fine. I chose to go with the Lastolite for this reason.
    John :
    Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
    D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,133 moderator
    edited December 5, 2010
    Icebear wrote: »
    For you Nikon shooters, enamoured with CLS, be aware that the Apollo system involves locating your speedlight INSIDE the softbox, shooting back into the "umbrella" whilst surrounded by the blackout reflective fabric of the softbox. I have serious doubts that the signal from the on-camera commander would be able to reliably communicate with the hidden speedlight. If you use cords or radio slaves you should be fine. I chose to go with the Lastolite for this reason.

    This would also be true of Canon wireless since it depends upon line-of-sight (LOS) and/or bounced light from the master flash to the slave flash. I believe that all of the manufacturer wireless units work the same way.

    A radio wireless master/slave would probably be very beneficial with any light modifier that holds the flash inside the modifier and restricts LOS or bounced light from the master controller flash.
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • ChatKatChatKat Registered Users Posts: 1,357 Major grins
    edited December 5, 2010
    Not a problem
    I use the Canon Speedlight with the ST-2 transmitter or another 580ex on master with the Apollo without a problem. I took Zack Arias One Light Workshop and he used the Nikon with the same set up - not an issue there either.
    Kathy Rappaport
    Flash Frozen Photography, Inc.
    http://flashfrozenphotography.com
  • IcebearIcebear Registered Users Posts: 4,015 Major grins
    edited December 5, 2010
    The key issue for me is reliability. In a darkish room, it may be that enough of the "command flashes" are discernable by the tucked-away speedlight. In a brighter environment, who knows. I wasn't interested in being a beta tester.
    John :
    Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
    D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
  • angevin1angevin1 Registered Users Posts: 3,403 Major grins
    edited December 5, 2010
    divamum wrote: »

    Alternatively, any others to consider?


    I like my Photoflex.

    I think it works well alone or in combo! And, it really appeals to my Capricornian price/value quotient!

    It does require an added bracket, but the price for the two is still under/around a hundred bucks. I think the key reason I like it is ease of use, set-up and control of light!

    1050234314_BTEgz-M.jpg
    tom wise
  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited December 5, 2010
    Wow - thanks for such great information, all. At this point I think I'm leaning towards a Cheetastand Qbox 16 - I really like the included grid, and the smaller size seems like it will be a better complement to the Photek that I already have, but I'll let you know what I finally decide. I'm considering one of their "pocket" stands, too, which look like a great alternative to the Manfrotto models for something super-portable, and which will be easy to manoeuvre in my small shooting space at home.

    Hopefully this thread will prove useful for others shopping for SB's in the future, too - what a wealth of info is here at dgrin!
  • IcebearIcebear Registered Users Posts: 4,015 Major grins
    edited December 5, 2010
    Maybe should be a stickie!?!?
    John :
    Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
    D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
  • IcebearIcebear Registered Users Posts: 4,015 Major grins
    edited December 5, 2010
    divamum wrote: »
    manoeuvre

    HA! Opera singers . . . You prolly can't decide whether you want a b&w or colour rendering either. mwink.gif
    John :
    Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
    D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited December 6, 2010
    Nuttin' to do with singer-status but instead from having been raised (and lived half my adult life) in the UK - I get terribly confused!
  • ZanottiZanotti Registered Users Posts: 1,411 Major grins
    edited December 6, 2010
    My 16" did not come with the grid, but it does have double diffusion. I sometimes leave the stoffen on the flash head.

    There is a bracket that connects to the flash stand included. Its a little wonky, but I got mine adjusted well - you need to make sure the flash doesnt fall off.

    The 16" is fine, but of course the larger one would be better. If you have confined space, the 16" is fine, expect to clone it out in some photos, becasue it works out better close in.

    I dont really catagorize my photos by flash diffuser type, so I had to look for square catch lights!

    Here is more of a snap, but you get the idea:

    1080142752_KffRu-M.jpg


    Z
    It is the purpose of life that each of us strives to become actually what he is potentially. We should be obsessed with stretching towards that goal through the world we inhabit.
  • ARKreationsARKreations Registered Users Posts: 265 Major grins
    edited December 6, 2010
    Icebear wrote: »
    For you Nikon shooters, enamoured with CLS, be aware that the Apollo system involves locating your speedlight INSIDE the softbox, shooting back into the "umbrella" whilst surrounded by the blackout reflective fabric of the softbox. I have serious doubts that the signal from the on-camera commander would be able to reliably communicate with the hidden speedlight. If you use cords or radio slaves you should be fine. I chose to go with the Lastolite for this reason.

    I had some concerns initially as well. However they were quickly put to rest. I have had NO problems firing an SB-6/800 inside an Appllo with the built in commander on both my D300 and D80, as well as with the SB-800 commander in a typical studio environment. More than adequate for my needs...
    Ross - ARKreations Photography
    http://www.arkreations.com
    Nikon D700 | D300 | D80 | SB-800(x2) | SB-600(x2)
    Nikkor Lenses: 14-24 f/2.8 | 24-70 f/2.8 | 50 f/1.8 | 85 f/1.4 | 70-200 f/2.8 VR II | 70-300 VR
  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited December 6, 2010
    Thanks Z. It looks like the 16" ships with the grid and circular mask now (although I guess I'll have to call them to find out if the mask is removable - I actually like square catchlights, although, granted, I prefer the "window" effect they give from larger SB's). My feeling is that the 45" Photek I already have acts as a medium-sized SB, perfect for 1 person shots and manageable for tight shots of 2 (which I seldom shoot anyway). If I ever find I'm doing more groups, I could imagine myself getting a 60" Photek, as Ziggy mentioned, and/or the larger Cheetah (if I like it) or an Apollo. The 16" sb could be used for fill and/or a soft hairlight; in fact, the way I already use my home-made SB, only easier to mount, a bit larger and with more even diffusion due to the double-front.

    My only reservation about the Cheetah is its depth - in my tight space, I could see that being tricky sometimes (hence why I still haven't decided which way to jump - I still have a few days before I need to order for an upcoming shoot).

    It's really nice to have so many choices - I guess the high-profile presence of Strobist & Co has really spurred interest in light modifiers for speedlights, which is great for those of us who are kind of limited to them for portability and size needs. It's great! thumb.gif
  • ZanottiZanotti Registered Users Posts: 1,411 Major grins
    edited December 6, 2010
    I found this of my "studio"!

    927084683_MfZZf-L.jpg

    \
    Z
    It is the purpose of life that each of us strives to become actually what he is potentially. We should be obsessed with stretching towards that goal through the world we inhabit.
  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited December 6, 2010
    @Zanotti -awesome! That gives me a much better sense of it. I think it may be perfect! Btw, I'm glad I'm not the only one who uses kitchen stools for posing stools... lol That said, my FAVORITE posing seat is one of these ($20 at a local outlet/discount store)

    898629370_qFJKD-M.jpg

    @Icebear - the Photek Softliter also requires that the flash is inside the diffuser (in fact, except in shape, it's rather a similar product to the Apollo by the look of it) - I've had zero problems using it with either the STE2 or 7d Canon flash commanders. I do ensure that I have the IR panel facing the camera (which means turning the flash head if I move the stand to the other side) but I've had very few misfires on that score.

    Outside is another story, but even there it WILL work, just not as consistently and you really have to make sure the line of sight is clean. But then the limitations of IR flash triggering outside are pretty universal, which is why you have PWs, Radio Poppers and all the others!

    FWIW (somewhat OT - threadnapping my own thread!) the only reason I haven't gone to radio triggers is that only one of my flashes has a manual mode (I use a 420ex as my 2nd flash) and I really do like using ETTL - for all its automatic-ness, it has served me very well and is one less thing to worry about. If I ever wind up with more than one flash that can run in manual-mode, I'll probably invest in some radio triggers, but until then it's ETTL all the way.... :D
  • IcebearIcebear Registered Users Posts: 4,015 Major grins
    edited December 6, 2010
    [QUOTE=divamum;1514388@Icebear - the Photek Softliter also requires that the flash is inside the diffuser (in fact, except in shape, it's rather a similar product to the Apollo by the look of it)[/QUOTE]

    Well, from the feedback here on the Apollo, it looks like I may have reasoned myself into spending $40 more for the Lastolite for an imaginary issue. There is an additional factor though in that the Lastolite has two layers of diffusion, and the Apollo only one if I'm not mistaken. Perhaps thats a non-factor since the speedlight fires into the back of the Apollo, and forward in the Ezybox. Anyway, I really like my Ezybox.

    As for the Softlighter, I tested the heck out of that one. The sock is not lightproof like the fabric sides of the Apollo, and the speedlight is not buried up inside the umbrella. I don't get too much use out of it. It's just huge. And with the lightstand in front, it's more awkward to manipulate, especially in a tightish venue.
    John :
    Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
    D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
  • angevin1angevin1 Registered Users Posts: 3,403 Major grins
    edited December 7, 2010
    Icebear wrote: »

    As for the Softlighter, I tested the heck out of that one. The sock is not lightproof like the fabric sides of the Apollo, and the speedlight is not buried up inside the umbrella. I don't get too much use out of it. It's just huge. And with the lightstand in front, it's more awkward to manipulate, especially in a tightish venue.

    Good points John, and my same feelings regarding that piece. That is why I went ahead and took a mounting clamp and fitted it to the top of the umbrella. When I did that I figured I'd break it off in a few minutes. But no. It held. I have used it that way with the top of it mounted onto a mono-pod and hand held so it could follow a moving target or be held skyward with ease. I do not use the softlighter as much anymore favoring my smaller and easier to set up SB's.....but hanging that softlighter from the 'top' end made it a whole new piece for me.
    tom wise
  • IcebearIcebear Registered Users Posts: 4,015 Major grins
    edited December 7, 2010
    angevin1 wrote: »
    but hanging that softlighter from the 'top' end made it a whole new piece for me.

    Picture! Picture!
    John :
    Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
    D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
  • aktseaktse Registered Users Posts: 1,928 Major grins
    edited December 7, 2010
    divamum wrote: »
    Alternatively, any others to consider?

    In my lighting journey over the past few years, I've realized there are pretty much three main types of hot shoe soft boxes.

    1. The Lastolite Ezybox Softbox and the various clones (including cheetah). It's basically a small double fused shoot-thru softbox with a bracket designed for hot shoe flashes. The real one and the clones work very well, but folks who shoot with the sb900 need to take extra care (with the clones and the lastolite). The older lastolites cold shoe is too small for the sb900. I don't know about the various clones, but the only the newest ezybox have the coldshoe that is big enough for the sb900.

    2. The apollo (don't know if there are clones yet of this) is a reflected single diffused softbox made by Westcott. I find it's the easiest to open and close/setup.

    3. If you have up to four flashes, you can add the Four Square to your shopping list. It's a big, beautiful single diffused softbox. If you have more lights, you can copy Dave Black and turn it into an eight square (without the softbox). It's a creates a beautiful light, but like most bigger softboxes, it take a while to set up and take apart.

    678357719_YPq9w-M-1.jpg

    I've used all three and actually own two of them. I started with the ezybox and purchased the apollo after a few chats with Syl Arena and a few other well known photogs; they picked the apollo over the ezybox due to the larger size and the better quality of light since it wraps reflects internally before being reflected out. The CLS system works very well with all three of these and the STE-2 works just as well as the STE-2 in a normal situation (always so-so in my book); CLS is going to win.

    In the end, what matters is the volume of light, quality of light and how close it is to the subject. It's up to the photographer to craft the appropriate light for the situation no matter what tool is available.

    Note: I can't show any specific examples of the ezboy or the apollo because as i went looking through my images, I can't tell which softbox I used. ne_nau.gif

    In the end, you can't really go wrong with soft beautiful light.

    If you asked me to pick based upon price point, easy of use, and quality of light, I would recommend the apollo since it's bigger and the light wraps more due to the reflective nature of the box.

    If I am photographing people all by myself without a VAL, my modifier of choice, without any hesitation is an orbis.

    Just sharpened; otherwise, SOC
    853821690_f5T8b-M.jpg
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