The Hybrid Darkroom: Film and Digital

DavidTO

Let's talk film!

How do you integrate shooting film into your digital workflow? Tips and tricks? Gear recommendations? Let's hear your stories! :ear

DavidTO

OK, I'll go first.

I recently decided to dive back into shooting and processing my own film after a hiatus of a few decades. It all started with the purchase of the Horizon Perfekt. You can read about my experience with that camera here.

My goal is to do it all myself: shoot, process, scan, process. I'm using a changing bag and processing the film in the bathroom. So far I'm shooting Ilford HP5+ and processing in Kodak HC110 (B). I'm having so much fun with it. It's like magic.

I bought a scanner (Epson v700), and really hated the slow, painful process of scanning the images. I griped about it to Marc, and he told me to ditch the scanner and get a Beseler Dual Mode Slide Duplicator. These are an interesting piece of 1970's technology designed to make internegatives or interpositives. Basically, it's a camera set up to take a picture of a slide or negative. It's a box with a strobe in it, a special lens attached to a bellows that attaches to your camera. When you attach it to a digital camera you end up with a better capture of the image than you would get with a scanner.

I had a hard time finding one at a decent price. The problem is, you never know quite what you're getting. Most people who are selling them don't really know what they are of if they're working properly.

After a bunch of searching I finally found Tom Martin's site. He sells the british equivalent of the Beseler, the Bowens Illumitran. Great name. Tom is awesome, and if you're looking to get into this, he's the guy to go to. He knows what he's talking about, has a rather large inventory of these things, and was so helpful in making sure I got exactly what I needed.

So, my Illumitran is in transit, I'll have it by next weekend and can report back on it after I get it set up and running. I'm really excited about it!

ziggy53

Be sure to read the cautionary tale in this thread:

http://thedambook.com/smf/index.php?topic=3959.0

DavidTO

ziggy53 wrote: »

Be sure to read the cautionary tale in this thread:

http://thedambook.com/smf/index.php?topic=3959.0

Hah! High voltage would NOT be good. Good thing I ended up getting an Illumtran!

DavidTO

The Bowens Illumtran came yesterday, and I was able to set it up and test it today:

[imgl]http://smugmug.com/photos/1214134303_aUSgr-S.jpg[/imgl][imgl]http://smugmug.com/photos/1214134533_Z7sca-S.jpg[/imgl][imgl]http://smugmug.com/photos/1214134426_ZBQve-S.jpg[/imgl]


My first big task was to cut the negative holders so they could accommodate my double-wide Horizon Perfekt negatives.

Then on to make mistake after mistake (I was learning, after all!)

I'm not going to say it's easy or perfect, but I do prefer it to scanning (at least to scanning on the Epson v700 flatbed).

Here's a side by side, Epson on the left, Illumitran on the right:

[imgl]http://smugmug.com/photos/1205510514_YCJ3d-M.jpg[/imgl]

Of course, there are a ton of variables between the two, aside from the capture device.

BradfordBenn

There are definitely some differences but I am not sure one is better than the other. Just like changing lenses on a camera, maybe changing scanner for effect.

DavidTO

BradfordBenn wrote: »

There are definitely some differences but I am not sure one is better than the other. Just like changing lenses on a camera, maybe changing scanner for effect.

Yah, and it's far from scientific. There are too many variables to even start pixel-peeping, so I'm not including any 100% crops.

BradfordBenn

But the most important question, is it satisfying?

DavidTO

BradfordBenn wrote: »

But the most important question, is it satisfying?

So far it's a mix of satisfying and frustrating.

ziggy53

Which lens did you end up getting?

DavidTO

ziggy53 wrote: »

Which lens did you end up getting?

The Schneider-Kreuznach Repro-Claron f8 55mm, but I'm going to try the f4 50mm Schneider, since I'm having a little trouble with the double-wide 35mm frame, and will have trouble with 120 if I end up shooting any of that: I have to fully compress the bellows to get focus, and it reduces my confidence in the focus, being at the extreme. The 50mm should alleviate that.

jeffreaux2

David,

Last year I made the jump back to film as well. For my purposes, I decided to shoot color film and reserve the ability to jump to BW or color later in the process. I use a local mom and pop who develops the negatives and scans them for me. Then, I process as I desire. They do a very good job for their part in the process.

Im using a twin lens reflex medium format camera. It was unweildy at first. O hell....it still is...as everything in the pop up viewfinder is bass ackwards, but it does force a good deal of thought into composing. All else is manual. It's a Yashica Mat 124G.

Id like to get a scanner eventually to save the scanning costs. The Epson V700 is on my short list.

DavidTO

Jeff, that looks great! I've been severely tempted to have the film processed and scanned elsewhere, but the DIY allure was too great. I really want to get a camera like that, I had a bid in on a Rollei for $200 at ebay, which lasted 5 days, then I was outbid. I'm going to get some camera in that format, though. I'm also thinking about trying some C41 processing in the bathroom, as well. It looks to be twice as hard as processing black and white, but heck, b/w is so easy already, can't be that bad.

It's funny, I really love the double wide pano look of my camera, and I also really love the square aspect of the twin lens reflex cameras. It's the middle ground that's not holding my attention lately.

jeffreaux2

IMO the Yashica Mat 124G is a reallly solid camera, however if I had to do it all over again Id probably skip on it....and any of the rollies and instead put together a Mamiya C330 Pro Kit. The bellows allows for closer focusing (great for portraits...which is the bulk of my photography) and they also accept interchangeable lenses. Both of these atributes put it much heavier and bulkier than the 124G. The C330 has no meter (no a deal breaker)....the 124G's meter works just fine.

....of course...had I gone that route Id probably have spent more time testing, researching, buying glass instead of just shooting photographs....


I can do that stuff with digital!!!:D

DavidTO

I'm working on another Rollei on ebay. 1 day left!

schmoo

jeffreaux2 wrote: »

IMO the Yashica Mat 124G is a reallly solid camera, however if I had to do it all over again Id probably skip on it....and any of the rollies and instead put together a Mamiya C330 Pro Kit. The bellows allows for closer focusing (great for portraits...which is the bulk of my photography) and they also accept interchangeable lenses. Both of these atributes put it much heavier and bulkier than the 124G. The C330 has no meter (no a deal breaker)....the 124G's meter works just fine.

....of course...had I gone that route Id probably have spent more time testing, researching, buying glass instead of just shooting photographs....


I can do that stuff with digital!!!:D

Jeff I remember when you first posted those pics on Dgrin and I still love them to this day. I recently took the leap to film (in more than a Holga capacity) and I'm loving it. I too have been eyeing a Rollei or a Yashica, so if you have any advice or are planning on selling, lemmie know.

A friend recently offered to sell me his medium format film camera with all the lenses and accoutrements but I think I am looking for a more simple fixed-lens TLR option like the Rollei. If I really need interchangeable lenses I can stick with my 5D!

jeffreaux2

schmoo wrote: »

Jeff I remember when you first posted those pics on Dgrin and I still love them to this day. I recently took the leap to film (in more than a Holga capacity) and I'm loving it. I too have been eyeing a Rollei or a Yashica, so if you have any advice or are planning on selling, lemmie know.

A friend recently offered to sell me his medium format film camera with all the lenses and accoutrements but I think I am looking for a more simple fixed-lens TLR option like the Rollei. If I really need interchangeable lenses I can stick with my 5D!

Hey Steph!


I have about $300 invested. Half of that was the accessorie lenses....and while they are in A+ perfect condition....I really have no use for them. Camera cost me $120 ish.

Admittedly, I did very little research before buying the camera....but...I got lucky with it. Many of the old medium format cameras do NOT have a light meter built in. The 124G does have a meter. Its accuracy is questionable......especially since the correctly volted batteries are no longer manufactured.....but since film is VERY forgiving in regards to exposure it works well enough.


...and sure...you can use a hand held meter...or use one of your digital rigs to acertain exposure info.....but..........IMO....getting away from all the extra gear is what makes it fun. Who wants to taint that?


...oh...

Not For Sale!:D

DavidTO

My journey continues. I've got a C41 processing kit on the way. I'm going to try processing color film in the bathroom and capturing it with my Illumitran. I also added a Zorki to my film camera collection.



And I'm still enjoying the Horizon:

DavidTO

I've shot and processed my first roll of color film. Because of the double-wide images of my camera it's not an option to have it scanned, at least not at a price I'm gonna spend. I had the roll processed only at CVS for $2.19. I wanted to have it processed professionally first before I venture into bathroom processing of color so that I could work on the rest of my workflow knowing that I hadn't already screwed it up in processing.

Once I got the film home I shot it on my slide duplicator and immediately ran into the problem of how to process. Scanner software is set up to deal with the orange cast of color negative film, but PS, not so much. I ended up downloading ColorNeg, a plug in that unfortunately only runs in 32bit mode on the Mac, at least for the time being.

It's a steep learning curve, but I'm having fun.

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jeffreaux2

David,

Im very interested in hearing how the color processing works out for you. I had a long discussion with the guy who does my processing, and did quite a bit of research via som Flickr groups that turned me off of it. The general consensus was that the temperature would be too hard to control at home without specialized gear. The black and white processing requires much looser control.

Keep us posted!

....Did you get a TLR yet?....did Schmoo?

schmoo

I personally like the "weird" color cast of your scanning, but hey I love the surprises that come with film. Even if they are workflow-based. I particularly like this one.

Hell, I even like the light leak on the left half.

Jeff yes I did get my TLR! Scored a Rolleiflex 2.8E a little while ago but I haven't really shot with it because I took it to the shop for a CLA. I'll have it back in hand within the next two weeks. I am counting the days...



In the workflow vein, there's been a lot of discussion offline about scanners and such. I'm still highly considering an Epson v500 for my medium-format scanning, but haven't jumped yet. What I'm hearing about the software scares me.

jeffreaux2

Wow!!!

That's a beautiful camera Steph!! Congrats on the new baby!

I had to replace the light seals in mine when I bought it, but everything else was fine. I found a guy on ebay who cuts and sells light seal kits for many of the popular older cameras. It was a fun...and sticky project, but I was pleased with the finished product.


Sooo....do tell....what is so scary about this scanning software?

Enquiring minds ya know?

schmoo

Cool! Are you talking about interslice? I'm not sure if the Rollei has leaks but my new old Soviet FED2 rangefinder sure does. I've actually been emailing back and forth with Jon tonight trying to get a custom set of foam baffling! So far I'm happy with the experience but yes I am finding out that lots of old cameras are leaky. It looks like the fix worked really well for your Yashica because I'd never have known looking at the pics.

I'm not sure about specifics with the software since I've not done it myself. I'm sure David, Ian or a few other folks can fill you in on that. I just kept seeing reviews all over about how frustrating it is, but I have been told there is an alternative: http://www.hamrick.com/

jeffreaux2

schmoo wrote: »

Cool! Are you talking about interslice? I'm not sure if the Rollei has leaks but my new old Soviet FED2 rangefinder sure does. I've actually been emailing back and forth with Jon tonight trying to get a custom set of foam baffling! So far I'm happy with the experience but yes I am finding out that lots of old cameras are leaky. It looks like the fix worked really well for your Yashica because I'd never have known looking at the pics.

I'm not sure about specifics with the software since I've not done it myself. I'm sure David, Ian or a few other folks can fill you in on that. I just kept seeing reviews all over about how frustrating it is, but I have been told there is an alternative: http://www.hamrick.com/

Yes!

Interslice is the ticket!

The instructions were very thorough and well written. I never shot the Yashica before I replaced the seals. When I got it the old foam door seals were all but gone to a sticky gooey mess. I had partially disassembled the top of the camera to get the ground glass and mirror out for cleaning. They were covered in black fine particles . These turned out to be from another seal that goes between the viewfinder door and the light meter. This one was totally shot...which could have...I guess effected the metering.

The Yashica is rumoured to suffer from reflections and flasring when shooting toward the sun. I have only run a few rolls of film through it. I did shoot towards the sun for at least one portrait. The sky didnt fall, and there was no major flaring in the image. So....

That Rollie is really a jewel. It's a bit more sophisticated looking than the Yashicas. I gotta say though...I REALLY like all the mechanics of the old TLRs. The lense mount travelling in and out for focus....knobs and winders all the way around....and when I partially disassembled mine....good grief! Theres a LOT of $#!T going on in there when you move one of those knobs!

It's like using a piece of art to create art. I can't wait to see what you do with it, and read the stories that go along with the images.

DavidTO

jeffreaux2 wrote: »

David,

Im very interested in hearing how the color processing works out for you. I had a long discussion with the guy who does my processing, and did quite a bit of research via som Flickr groups that turned me off of it. The general consensus was that the temperature would be too hard to control at home without specialized gear. The black and white processing requires much looser control.

Keep us posted!

....Did you get a TLR yet?....did Schmoo?

I'll let you know. The C41 kit I got plays pretty fast and loose with development temps. Info here.

For now I'm having my color processed at CVS, since there are already so many variables. I've yet to get a roll of color through my Zorki, and I just don't trust the exposure on the Horizon pano cam. I think that drastically affects my color. Even still, there are shots that are easy to get the color right and others that just totally kick my butt. Again, I think that comes to proper/improper exposure.

Black and white is definitely easier, but I have to say, looking at those instructions that the C41 process doesn't look that bad, either.

As for the Rollei, I was following an auction on my drive back from a few days in Morro Bay with the family. I came home to a leaky roof, so I let it go. And really, I'm so busy with what I got that I just don't need another distraction. Yet. I'm gonna get one, someday!

schmoo

I just wanted to throw this out there: So far I am much happier with the cheap film and cheap processing/scanning that I did through Walgreens than I am with the pricey pro film and pricey pro lab.

Exhibit A:


Exhibit B:


Not sure what it is, or just coincidence. Maybe it's like the difference between shooting RAW and shooting JPG?

jeffreaux2

Steph-

Does Walgreens or CVS do medium format processing?

I havent researched your rollei...does it have meter? If not...whats your strategy there?


David-

Ive had a chance to see quite a few of the pano film shots here and there and I really like the look and feel of the ones with people in them. The W/A gives a really cool perspective that adds a little drama to the capture. Upping the pj feel for those images. I think you have a knack for pj type captures as well!

DavidTO

jeffreaux2 wrote: »

David-

Ive had a chance to see quite a few of the pano film shots here and there and I really like the look and feel of the ones with people in them. The W/A gives a really cool perspective that adds a little drama to the capture. Upping the pj feel for those images. I think you have a knack for pj type captures as well!

Thanks! Yah, I find that the kind of pano shot that first comes to mind is boring on this camera. The beauty of it is that it shoots the pano live, so you can have people in it. Sure, sometimes they get smudged, but that's cool, too!

I've also tried it vertically, and it's not nearly as cool. Much less impressive.

schmoo

jeffreaux2 wrote: »

Steph-

Does Walgreens or CVS do medium format processing?

I havent researched your rollei...does it have meter? If not...whats your strategy there?

No, the local drugstores don't but the pro lab does. I've been taking my film from the Diana to them with pretty good results (I guess... hard to tell sometimes with lomography ). I'm hoping to develop there and maybe by then I'll have my own scanner.

The 2.8E does have a meter and it works, but I understand that the selenium cells can wear out and lose accuracy. The guy who sold it to me recommended setting it to double the ISO to get it right, but I tend to use one of two iPhone light meter apps for both my film cameras.

ziggy53

Just a heads up for 6x6 medium format TLR owners, most of those cameras can easily be adapted to use 35mm film. You can get panoramic images of 24mm x 60mm as a result. Of course the normal orientation is portrait so you have to rotate the camera for landscape.

If the camera has a red window for the frame counter you'll have to block that window, of course. You should also load and unload the film in darkness since otherwise you'll lose a lot of leader and there is no rewind on most cameras (the Yashica 635 being an exception that "does" have a rewinder.) Be sure to let any film processor know that you want the film returned "uncut" or it can get sliced oddly otherwise.

You'll have to find a way to scan/print the resulting images but that's half the fun.

jeffreaux2

schmoo wrote: »

.

but I tend to use one of two iPhone light meter apps for both my film cameras.

I knew if I asked enough questions you'd eventually fess up to some magic trick you were pulling. I never knew such a thing existed.

I find that the exposure for film is very forgiving. I use the meter in the Yashica. If for instance I want to expose for a back lit situation I just over expose..."some". The needle on the meter is shaped like a little open ended wrench. I just cheat it over or under a tad using my basic knowledge of photography and exposure to guide my guesses. Of course this all works on a sliding scale of sorts...since EVERYTHING changes as the battery gets older. This is all very technical and scientific huh?

Anyway...I think you will be pleased with the lessons that TLR can give in composition and on slowing down and thinking through the shots. The ass backwards viewfinder can be frustrating...some....but it does make you slow down and think before jabbing the shutter. We could all use a little of THAT.