Why would you sell the client a DVD?

Zet

What are some reasons that a photographer would sell a DVD with all the images to the client?? There are many portrait photographers in my area that do this and I can't figure out why......:scratch

mercphoto

Well.... if you were the customer could you see yourself wanting digital files, buying them and doing something meaningful with them? This is no longer a print-only world.

met

Exactly. I wouldn't hire a photog that wouldn't give access to the digital files. I'm a digital girl in a digital world. Many photogs will do two sets of images on the disc. 1 high res folder for printing and 1 low res lightly watermarked for digital sharing. That's what I do anyway. I don't count on print sales to make money and don't build my pricing around it. I recommend pro print labs to them and make Bay Photo available on my smugmug because I would like my photos printed to best advantage, but I'm not in the business of selling paper.

Here's another thought. If they buy prints from you, what's stopping them from just scanning that print in and doing what they want with it anyway?

Zet

So how much do you sell the DVD for to make it worth your while?
Do you charge for a session and the DVD is a seperate option??

Yes, they could scan the picture and copy it but if they want 10 different pictures you took then they have to buy 10 pictures from you....

indiegirl

I don't sell my hi res images to portrait clients (although I do to commercial clients - for a considerable fee). I offer low res, branded images as part of my initial fee. Everything else has to go through me. I want to control quality and I have built my small but growing business around high quality, interesting and tailor-made products for clients.

indiegirl

met wrote: »

Here's another thought. If they buy prints from you, what's stopping them from just scanning that print in and doing what they want with it anyway?

My clients choose me because I offer more than pictures. They choose my work because they want the experience. A small part of that experience is eduction about how they use the images. I work with my clients and really get to know them. They get to know me, too, and know what they are getting into from the beginning.

I guess folks can and will scan images but why? I offer the low res for sharing (which is what 99% want to do anyway) and if they are intent on scanning/printing, they'll have to purchase the images large enough to do so first.

met

indiegirl wrote: »

I guess folks can and will scan images but why? I offer the low res for sharing (which is what 99% want to do anyway) and if they are intent on scanning/printing, they'll have to purchase the images large enough to do so first.

That's pretty much what I was getting at in my post. The OP asked why any photog would offer them. You said you offer them digital files because they want to share them with family and friends online. People have very specific and legitimate reasons for wanting them. My thinking is, in this day and age, why would customers not want them? They would be kind of crazy not to if they have any kind of online social presence.

I mentioned that the images I provide for social sharing are low res watermarked images as well. They also come with a friendly conversation regarding their intent and how it serves as a protection for both of us to use the files for their intended purpose.

met

My personal feelings are that setting up an "old-school" business model to rely on print sales with a cheap "sitting fee", rather than pricing your packages to establish a value on your time, creativity and product is like trying to book a ticket on the Titanic while it's sinking.

colourbox

met wrote: »

My thinking is, in this day and age, why would customers not want them? They would be kind of crazy not to if they have any kind of online social presence.

I mentioned that the images I provide for social sharing are low res watermarked images as well. They also come with a friendly conversation regarding their intent and how it serves as a protection for both of us to use the files for their intended purpose.

Yes, if you imagine a twentysomething couple, it is hard to think of them being happy with just a stack of prints and an album book. How to get them back up to the wedding website, the Facebook profile pic, and the living room HDTV? Prints are not the first priority of the new generation at all. Digital is the default.

My friend does the same thing, digital files come with a licensing agreement that she goes over with them. "Here is what you can do with the files."

Zet

indiegirl wrote: »

I don't sell my hi res images to portrait clients (although I do to commercial clients - for a considerable fee). I offer low res, branded images as part of my initial fee. Everything else has to go through me. I want to control quality and I have built my small but growing business around high quality, interesting and tailor-made products for clients.

This is a great idea!

I've had people ask for hi res images on a DVD so that they can print them. I currently don't offer this option but I'm thinking that I should. I just don't know how to make it worth my while.

waywardfool

A big reason I'd want on CD/DVD... Growing up back in the 60's and 70's, and into the 80's, there were the same 4 or 5 portrait photographers in our area. The kind that had file cabinets full of negatives, and had been shooting families and weddings for decades. You KNEW that you could go back to them, years later, and buy another print, if necessary. Some of those have just disappeared over the years, aging into oblivion. A couple have run ads in the local newspaper, announcing retirement, and offering any of their previous clients to come pick up negatives by such-and-such a date, or they would be trashed.

Nowadays, I can name 4 or 5 portrait/wedding photographers that have set up shop in our area within the past few years, and have closed up or moved on, whereabouts unknown.

In my father's generation, people would keep one job, in one area, for decades. Now, jobs seem to last just a few years, and for many, residence in a particular city or area only a few more.

I'd want hi-res digital, not to put one over on the photographer, but to guarantee that I have access to the "negatives" in the future.

orljustin

indiegirl wrote: »

I don't sell my hi res images to portrait clients (although I do to commercial clients - for a considerable fee). I offer low res, branded images as part of my initial fee. Everything else has to go through me. I want to control quality and I have built my small but growing business around high quality, interesting and tailor-made products for clients.

I can't say I'd use any photographer who thought they could use me as some sort of advertising vehicle, slapping their name on all the content I hired them to make. Just like I wouldn't want their name on a print on my wall or book, I certainly wouldn't want their mark on anything I am working with digitally.

Art Scott

Zet wrote: »

This is a great idea!

I've had people ask for hi res images on a DVD so that they can print them. I currently don't offer this option but I'm thinking that I should. I just don't know how to make it worth my while.

If the prints "look" professional the cheap labs in my area will not print them with out a signed release from the photog and I have even started having to have my phone number on the release even when it has been notarized......so just giving them a disk of printable files does not actually mean that the client can get them printed, unless the lab does not understand copyright or just does not care.....but then every photo that goes out from me has my signature on the bottom just like all paper prints are signed by me.....so my stuff goes out with "PRO PORTRAIT" pretty screaming off it...............

indiegirl

orljustin wrote: »

I can't say I'd use any photographer who thought they could use me as some sort of advertising vehicle, slapping their name on all the content I hired them to make. Just like I wouldn't want their name on a print on my wall or book, I certainly wouldn't want their mark on anything I am working with digitally.

Finished prints, etc, don't have my brand on them. Just the web sharing images. I guess it comes down to what folks expect, cause no one is complaining about them.

indiegirl

met wrote: »

That's pretty much what I was getting at in my post. The OP asked why any photog would offer them. You said you offer them digital files because they want to share them with family and friends online. People have very specific and legitimate reasons for wanting them. My thinking is, in this day and age, why would customers not want them? They would be kind of crazy not to if they have any kind of online social presence.

I mentioned that the images I provide for social sharing are low res watermarked images as well. They also come with a friendly conversation regarding their intent and how it serves as a protection for both of us to use the files for their intended purpose.

I think there's a big difference between web friendly images they can share via email, blogs, boards, fb, etc. and high resolution images. Selling those to my portrait clients would be like giving away the biggest chunk of any potential I might have with them.

Art Scott

orljustin wrote: »

I can't say I'd use any photographer who thought they could use me as some sort of advertising vehicle, slapping their name on all the content I hired them to make. Just like I wouldn't want their name on a print on my wall or book, I certainly wouldn't want their mark on anything I am working with digitally.

Actually a signature on professionally done photographs has been the norm since the beginning, just like any other piece of artwork.......Also generations from now I want people to know that I took the shot of their late Great Great Great Grandmother and Grandfathers wedding or Portrait..........If I noticed a pro Photog was letting go of their images without a signature I would not hire them because they do not think their work is worth putting their name/reputation on.......now if I see copyright symbols and statements on print images i would not hire them either......also no signature to means lowend low class studio ......no pride in work just in it for the buck ................

Just my humble opinion...................

met

indiegirl wrote: »

I think there's a big difference between web friendly images they can share via email, blogs, boards, fb, etc. and high resolution images. Selling those to my portrait clients would be like giving away the biggest chunk of any potential I might have with them.

That makes sense if your model is to try and do a lot of print business. Personally, mine isn't because I think it is a dying model. I price them based on how much I want to make up front and that's it. If I'm going to do an add-on I try to do an album, gallery wraps or metal prints, etc. Most clients want to get those through me because of the samples. It's rare that they would try to go out on their own to purchase those things from their disk. As far as trying to sell them 4x6s or like a wallet print package, my personal feeling is like I said before - I'm not in business to sell paper. They're welcome to buy prints from me, but I don't want to nickel and dime them for every print. Because I price the way I do, I view it the digital images as part of what they're purchasing from me.

On a side note, I don't just hand over the disk without speaking to them. I speak to them about image use, the importance of investing in a high quality lab to maximize their investment, etc.

met

Zet wrote: »

So how much do you sell the DVD for to make it worth your while?
Do you charge for a session and the DVD is a seperate option??

Yes, they could scan the picture and copy it but if they want 10 different pictures you took then they have to buy 10 pictures from you....

The actual pricing structure should really be tailored to what works for you and your area. But my personal feeling is that charging like a cheap $50 sitting fee or something with a minimum print requirement is an antiquated model. It makes it almost seem like you're placing the value on the paper prints rather than your photography and vision.

I charge to cover all my costs + a decent wage for myself x 1.3 to give Uncle Sam his cut. They pay for my time and experience and any products they choose to purchase on top are bonus. If you have samples of beautiful products (albums, metal prints, etc) and a customer that is investing in their photography - they should sell themselves.

I give them access to the digital files for a number of reasons.

1.) I shoot PJ and want them to enjoy the photos as a cohesive set.

2.) I try to look at things from my customer's perspective. Wayward Fool made an excellent point about the current nature of changeability and allowing future generations access to the memories of their parents or the documentation of their childhood.

3.) You won't be competitive unless you offer your customer at least some way to share online. If I were looking to hire a photog and I only had a print option, I'd pass in a second and probably draw a conclusion (perhaps undeservedly) that their actual photographic work and style was stuck in the past.

4.) My mother gets great joy out of scrapbooking. I would want her to be able to make scrapbooks without having to buy $1000 worth of prints from a photog that was holding the images hostage with a huge markup on the prints micromanaging every print purchase through them to "get their cut". Many would say that it just makes them a savvy business person, but personally it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Zet

indiegirl wrote: »

I think there's a big difference between web friendly images they can share via email, blogs, boards, fb, etc. and high resolution images. Selling those to my portrait clients would be like giving away the biggest chunk of any potential I might have with them.

Exactly! I think you and I are on the same page!!

zoomer

I just want to take pictures, I am a photographer.

I don't want to manage store and keep track of tons of photo files and print orders and payments etc etc etc.
I don't even commit to archive and have their photos in my files if they should lose theirs. I tell them to buy archive quality discs and make two copies.

I charge a one time fee for all my work, all photos fully processed, everything included...clients pay to have their pictures taken and I want them to have them.
I give them their disc and move onto the next client.

Zet

zoomer wrote: »

I just want to take pictures, I am a photographer.

Zoomer, beautiful work!!!! Very nice pictures on your site!

zoomer

Thanks Zet, appreciate it .

Glort

Why would you sell the client a DVD?

To make money.
Which is the reason I'm in business.

As far as i'm concerned, the mentality of ' Hold on to your negatives and never sell them to the client" and the idea of repeat sales in teh future was the biggest load of costly BS information i hever had the misfortune to one time believe.

The amount of clients that have contacted me years later for more reprints i could count on one had from the last 25 years and sure as hell in no way make up for the trouble of storing the images, digging through them to locate some negs to make a couple of 5x7's from, let alone the money I could have made selling the things in the first place when they still had value to the client.

I have loads of old negs i'm throwing out now that if I had got even $100 extra on each sale by getting rid of them, I'd be infinately better off than paying to dispose of them now.
And another thing that occoured to me with regard to the people whom are scared of their own shadow and being sued for anything, what if you refuse to give the files and a client comes back say after their house burns down and you can't replace teh pics they want because for whatever reason, you no longer have the files you denied them or said you would keep?
Having action taken against you for that seems entirely a lot more likley than some of the rubbish people go on with and worry about.

I have also found the thing about stressing because somone will make a terrible print of your work and others will see it and you will never be hired as a photographer again as long as you live to be a load of bunk.
Firstly, most people get the disk, may print some pics off it and then they never worry about or look at it again. They will always say, these are some prints I did at home ( as if the viewer cant see that plainly) or will say had done at teh supermarket or whatever. Straight off 90% of the time your off the hook anyway.

Secondly, there are loads of dodgy shooters out there doing all kinds of crap and they seem to have no trouble lureing people in when they are known far and wide as being con men and rip off agents. If they can survive with what they do, it's going to take a lot more than a few less than perfect prints to destroy a good shooters reputation.

I sell Disks every weekend at my sports events and they go well and i also either sell the master image files for weddings and portraits or use them to up the price on the deal to make more money but still have an edge over my competitors who seem to think there is some value in keeping all these pics of other people. I can do full wedding albums and still get $800-$1000 for a disk of images I just sold them a book of prints of and and the disks cost me way less than $5.

Why in heck wouldn't you sell the disks for that sort of profit??? No way in hell people are going to come back and buy the amount of reprints to give you that profit let alone the time in prepping them etc. especially now these days every second person has a digicam and is snapping madly away. I'm glad to sell them a disk so i don't have to chaseup and stuff around with re-orders that are more trouble that what they have always been worth.

Even if i only get $100 on top of the sale value for the disk, i can use that money for something. Bunches of digital files are less than worthless to me once the sale is made.

I say get what you can while you can for what you can.

orljustin

met wrote: »

The actual pricing structure should really be tailored to what works for you and your area. But my personal feeling is that charging like a cheap $50 sitting fee or something with a minimum print requirement is an antiquated model. It makes it almost seem like you're placing the value on the paper prints rather than your photography and vision.

I charge to cover all my costs + a decent wage for myself x 1.3 to give Uncle Sam his cut. They pay for my time and experience and any products they choose to purchase on top are bonus. If you have samples of beautiful products (albums, metal prints, etc) and a customer that is investing in their photography - they should sell themselves.

I give them access to the digital files for a number of reasons.

1.) I shoot PJ and want them to enjoy the photos as a cohesive set.

2.) I try to look at things from my customer's perspective. Wayward Fool made an excellent point about the current nature of changeability and allowing future generations access to the memories of their parents or the documentation of their childhood.

3.) You won't be competitive unless you offer your customer at least some way to share online. If I were looking to hire a photog and I only had a print option, I'd pass in a second and probably draw a conclusion (perhaps undeservedly) that their actual photographic work and style was stuck in the past.

4.) My mother gets great joy out of scrapbooking. I would want her to be able to make scrapbooks without having to buy $1000 worth of prints from a photog that was holding the images hostage with a huge markup on the prints micromanaging every print purchase through them to "get their cut". Many would say that it just makes them a savvy business person, but personally it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

All great points, which is why I wouldn't use a photographer who uses this model.

mercphoto

Good points Glort.

ColoradoSkier

zoomer wrote: »

I just want to take pictures, I am a photographer.

I don't want to manage store and keep track of tons of photo files and print orders and payments etc etc etc.
I don't even commit to archive and have their photos in my files if they should lose theirs. I tell them to buy archive quality discs and make two copies.

I charge a one time fee for all my work, all photos fully processed, everything included...clients pay to have their pictures taken and I want them to have them.
I give them their disc and move onto the next client.

Seriously great pictures. Wow. That's what I aspire to.

John Patrick

I sell CDs as that's what my customers expect. This past weekend I sold over 110 CDs. The amount ofprint orders I would have received had i not sold CDs would have been much smaller in both quantity and profit. It's a no-brainer from both my perspective and my customers'.

John

indiegirl

My clients are not purchasing my images for scrap books. They are purchasing fine art, distinctive albums and wall collections. We cater to different markets and have different reasons for our business decisions. In an already saturated market, there will always be someone selling something for less money (and more money!) than me. There will always be photographers who sell discs. People choose my work because they want to work with me. I am okay (well, more than ok) with not being like another photographer in style, in price and in products.

orljustin

I just looked at "Tacoma Family". I'm not really seeing "fine art". They may like to work with you because you're a nice person, but I'm not seeing much that would differentiate you from another "location photographer" that sold discs instead. And especially for that kind of thing, I'd want a disc of finished images so I wasn't held hostage for prints trying to get an entire series. That's totally different from a perfectly posed studio portrait (which the antiquated print system was based on).

Glort

indiegirl wrote: »

They are purchasing fine art, distinctive albums and wall collections.

People choose my work because they want to work with me.

I am okay (well, more than ok) with not being like another photographer in style, in price and in products.

My clients purchase memories of significant and important parts of their lives that they hold dear and are reminders to whom they are and what they value most in life.

People choose to work with me because I can give them what they want which is a sense and feeling of belonging, of love, family, friendship and of the good times in life that is often what gets them through the not so good times.

I am OK with providing the people that put food on my table what they want me to create for them in any form they choose for as long as it is viable for my business and putting the needs and desires of my clients ahead of my own pride is irrelevant to how any other photographer runs their business.

indiegirl

orljustin wrote: »

I just looked at "Tacoma Family". I'm not really seeing "fine art".

Seriously? Did you just say that?

I'm out of this conversation.