As a protest over this moderator's behaviour I am not posting for a month
In the meanwhile best wishes to you all!
An error of judgment I believe, Alex.
This thread attracted over 1,700 views, not for nothing surely, and not for the eviscerated remains you have deigned to leave, I'll warrant.
I wonder about the power of a moderator to interfere with communication between members of Dgrin on the basis of what you personally consider to be "focused on photography". You did not respect us enough to show how the comments that you removed were not relevant critique of the image. You just issued a fiat like a dictator.
It is Dgrin etiquette to explain opinions given, and it is also common for friends to banter about this and that unrelated matter while communicating in a forum, and this is not penalised. To me your action appears redneck and anti-intellectual. Prejudiced, in other words, and to me it makes a stain on Dgrin.
I wonder about the judgment of a moderator who can do this and at the same time use this forum and his privilege as its moderator for posting images of his own to it which on his own admission are off topic for this forum.
I am making a complaint to SmugMug about your affront, and in protest I am not going to post in Dgrin for 1 month.
Neil
anonymouscuban wrote: »All,
I've deleted all posts that I felt were off topic. There were many to read through and I apologize in advance if I deleted a post you felt was valid feedback.
As Ivar already mentioned, let's keep the comments focused on photography. I personally don't find the image offensive so I'm leaving it. Sure, it's a little dark but so are many other photos posted on Dgrin. Either keep posts on topic or move on.
Thanks,
Alex
An error of judgment I believe, Alex.
This thread attracted over 1,700 views, not for nothing surely, and not for the eviscerated remains you have deigned to leave, I'll warrant.
I wonder about the power of a moderator to interfere with communication between members of Dgrin on the basis of what you personally consider to be "focused on photography". You did not respect us enough to show how the comments that you removed were not relevant critique of the image. You just issued a fiat like a dictator.
It is Dgrin etiquette to explain opinions given, and it is also common for friends to banter about this and that unrelated matter while communicating in a forum, and this is not penalised. To me your action appears redneck and anti-intellectual. Prejudiced, in other words, and to me it makes a stain on Dgrin.
I wonder about the judgment of a moderator who can do this and at the same time use this forum and his privilege as its moderator for posting images of his own to it which on his own admission are off topic for this forum.
I am making a complaint to SmugMug about your affront, and in protest I am not going to post in Dgrin for 1 month.
Neil
"Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"
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+1
That thread had degenerated into lots of mud-slinging, rather than a civil discussion, so I support scrubbing it all off.
I didn't see the end of that thread but I have a hard time believing Niell would be doing the slinging. From what I've read of him he's surely passionate and challenging but also curtious and respectful.
We have to take care not to let discussions drift into anything ethical, political or religious, let's keep it beige people!
Malte
Please don't.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
I have no problems with anyone disagreeing with a judgement call by one of us mods. We are all human and we all make mistakes ( I make one a year).
However to toss around terms like "red-necked", "dictator", "anti-intellectual", "prejudiced" in response to that decision is akin to a 6 year old throwing a tantrum because their x-box was turned off.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Well, let's keep in mind, that this is when he believes he's been illegitimately censored. Show me this type of responses from the deleted ones and I'll give you the point.
Malte
Just to be clear, I'm not here defending Niell's point in that thread, I actually disagreed with him then. I agree with him now, on that this is a discussion forum and that he was critiquing the subject matter of that thread and as such was ON TOPIC.
Malte
Well, Malte, some of my posts in the thread were deleted but I still support the moderator. Even if I didn't, I would not be name-calling or denigrating his attempts to keep things on the subject of photography.
Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
Two wrongs don't make a right. Censorship came first.
Malte
2. I must have misunderstood you: "Show me this type of responses from the deleted ones and I'll give you the point," said to me that you were asking for the opinions of others whose posts had been deleted. You seemed to be saying that you would concede Harry's point if those people didn't respond like spoiled children.
Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
The point is that its fine to disagree with the decision. My issue is how the disagreement is voiced. You need to keep some perspective.
Some of the terms tossed around like censorship, dictatorial, etc are just a tad over the top. I have deleted posts in the past when I felt that the response was uncivil. I have never seen a mod here edit a post because of the idea contained in it.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Otherwise I'll be right here if you need me.
Malte
In a photography forum, where photographers share their work to try to improve their art, how can it be ok to attack the photographer that way, rather than critiquing the technique used in the image?
This is not a forum for parenting, or a forum for amateur psychologists.
My bad.
Yes. I meant Harry, having mod powers, could retrieve a deleted offending post of Niell's and settle it for me.
Malte
Absolutely, that's a mod's role. But it needs to be righteous. That's what I'm questioning, not moderating in general.
Like I said, I didn't see the end of the thread before it was moderated, that's why I want to see the offending posts. From what I've read of him previously, I would call it completely out of character for him to "attack" anyone.
Is that your brand of mud-slinging?
Malte
Basically, he challenged the premise that it's a good thing to use children to make light of violence of any kind. I would say that you can choose to agree or disagree with him, but sometimes around here you can't.
Why is it that in a photography forum the artist can never be questioned about his artistic choices? Is this really just a forum about mechanical technique? (obviously not if you check the comments on the wedding forum) Can't a photographer whose choice is questioned simply choose to say, "I don't want to discuss that" and be done with it? Even better, perhaps a conversation could take place (a spirited debate even) about the legitimacy of such choices. But instead, with a moderatorial squash, discussion from one perspective is disallowed.
I agree with Harry that Neill's post (here) is rather mean-spirited and uses unnecessary phrases (see my response in the original thread). I also agree with Malte, however, that there was a level of provocation that, while not justifying Neill's response, is worth careful consideration by the forum admins.
No.
Can't see why you think it would be, and it's hard for me to see 'amateur' as an insult.
I'm an amateur photographer
I don't remember exact words used, but Marcin Wuu made it clear that he felt attacked, personally, and then... none of the comments stopped. They just continued, with Wuu sometimes trying to defend himself. I was getting disheartened to see that mods had *not* taken action at that point, actually. Though I had assumed any action taken would involve locking the thread, rather than removing posts.
Regardless of tactic used, I do agree with the mod's action.
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I took your advice and from what was left in the quotations I gather he's someone who cares deeply for the safety of children and detests gender stereotyping. Sounds like my kind of guy. Look it's obviously personally important to him, so even if he got a little emotional, I have a hard time regarding it hurtful to anyone.
Malte
Noo, keep sharing! It's easy to just skip image posts you know you won't enjoy. All you rust guys, I'm looking at you.
I won't skip your posts.
Malte
It was hard to read many of the comments as anything other than accusations of bad or horrible parenting, even if they were not intended that way.
I think you can understand how that could be hurtful.
It would seem to me that it hurts him more than the community he is boycotting.
Full Marks, and Well said!
I understand this is a photography forum. I get that. If like Paul Suggests we are going to be dealing with the mechanical aspects only, then count me out. Those aspects are the simplest, and most boring aspects!
And this idea is a wonderful thing to discuss. When we discuss this sort of thing, are we not discussing the OP's photo, or taking of said photo? I'm sorry I missed the thread before it got censured, so kick me. But really having a discourse on topics such as these are interesting & informative.
EXACTLY. We are being punished for not joining in the book burning.
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This thread just makes Neil look petty and self-important, to be honest.
http://blog.timkphotography.com
Tim - if any consolation, i agree with you on your posts under Marcin's thread. And think your last line sums it up.
I think I'll keep hanging in OCS - lot of drama up here for what i thought to be a well executed capture (albeit a bit dark in nature, but nature isn't always bright).
Being even-handed is truly a difficult thing. A very public example is the Apple App Store. Once you decide to curate anything you're going to be accused of being unfair, and its almost inevitable that in some cases you will actually be unfair. Perhaps what's needed is a bit more grace for one another.
Look guys... The thread in question was heading down a slippery slope fast. I was on my way out the door for the weekend and to be honest, I decided to soft delete any post that seemed remotely off topic to me after a quick read. I decided to play it safe and be blamed for going rogue rather than risk leaving threads that may be personally offensive to the OP or other Dgrinner. If that is red-necked, then call me a hillbilly and pass me the moonshine. :jose
I had some time tonight to read through all the posts and I restored many of them. Any of posts that were direct or implied attacks on the OP or any other member of Dgrin remained deleted.
Now, as for this thread, I printed a copy of it and have it taped to the wall in my garage. I'm now going to go throw darts at it and any post I hit, I will obliterate from Dgrin.
But first I need to go put some aloe vera on my neck to see if I can get rid of some of the redness.
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