I have been entering these challenges since May 2004, or about or more, and I still don't know how to judge my own photos as far as what to enter.
What criteria do you and Rutt use that you have learned? Is it intuitive? Or is it something you can share?
I know we are supposed to be able to judge our own work, but I have also read by good sources that photographers are very often not the best judges of their own work. I have read that very often we are not even good judges of their work.
I must be a hell of a good photographer because I sure can't judge my stuff for a challenge, or much of anything else: except the last one and that was pretty bad. But I have put up something I thought was one of my best things I ever did and had it not make the finals, then put up something just the best of the moment, but not the best ever, and won (not the last time, I have a pretty good idea on that), but I am constantly surprised by the shots people like of mine.
ginger (any feedback on this, you can PM me, you can do anything, I would sure like to know more on judging our own photos)
The challenge is just a popularity contest. Nothing more...nothing less. It's not like it's based on any real photographic merit. It starts off with the selection of the finalists.......which often times seems to be directed with personal preferences instead of any basic principles of a quality photograph. Many excellent photographs are often overlooked for whimsical or mildly clever snapshots. There seems to be some difficulty distinguishing between photographs and snap shots to represent the final selections. After this initial selection...... these "favorite" photos/snapshots are thrown into a vote by which the members decide the "winner".
The voting community’s experience, often varying from great inexperience and beginners to advanced amateurs and professionals...... are left with the decision and selection of the winner. . The best photograph doesn't always win the challenge. Sometimes it doesn’t even make the final cut. The winner is often times just the most popular person or entered the most liked photo. This image is not necessarily the superior photo. People vote for their friends and family members. Unqualified and inexperienced members vote for an image they like. Their votes counting equaly to the experienced amateur and professinal's vote. How much merit can such a "challenge/contest" hold?
Why is there so much concern about entry numbers and rules for a popularity contest? If you don’t like the nonsense...don’t enter. You need to consider what you are entering into...and the source of the outcome. Neither is that important. Seems some people are putting too much importance on this optional event. The challenge seems to be around for "the fun of it". It’s not a major professional jurried photo contest with huge expensive prizes and prestigious honors. It’s just a little contest on an internet site. Enjoy it for what it’s worth.
Will increasing or decreasing the number of entries really change the popularity contest’s basis or results? Probably not in the least bit. Every couple weeks there will be personal preferences voiced and voted on in an attempt to select the winner. These choices won't necessarily be made based on photographic merit...but rather personal feelings and emotins. Take it for the game it is. Just kiss some behind and pander for votes from friends and strangers if winning is that important to you. . To get selected you might praise the work of the people in charge of the final selections, Garnish them with praise on all their photographs and posts. If you don’t think that will be enough to persuade them to pick your photo.......you could send the selection committee some money or camera equipment. You might just take self satisfaction that you took a good shot and continue taking more quality shots. If you don’t like the rules and questionable practices of the challenge....DON’T ENTER IT!!
The challenge is just a popularity contest. Nothing more...nothing less. It's not like it's based on any real photographic merit. It starts off with the selection of the finalists.......which often times seems to be directed with personal preferences instead of any basic principles of a quality photograph. Many excellent photographs are often overlooked for whimsical or mildly clever snapshots. There seems to be some difficulty distinguishing between photographs and snap shots to represent the final selections. After this initial selection...... these "favorite" photos/snapshots are thrown into a vote by which the members decide the "winner".
The voting community’s experience, often varying from great inexperience and beginners to advanced amateurs and professionals...... are left with the decision and selection of the winner. . The best photograph doesn't always win the challenge. Sometimes it doesn’t even make the final cut. The winner is often times just the most popular person or entered the most liked photo. This image is not necessarily the superior photo. People vote for their friends and family members. Unqualified and inexperienced members vote for an image they like. Their votes counting equaly to the experienced amateur and professinal's vote. How much merit can such a "challenge/contest" hold?
Why is there so much concern about entry numbers and rules for a popularity contest? If you don’t like the nonsense...don’t enter. You need to consider what you are entering into...and the source of the outcome. Neither is that important. Seems some people are putting too much importance on this optional event. The challenge seems to be around for "the fun of it". It’s not a major professional jurried photo contest with huge expensive prizes and prestigious honors. It’s just a little contest on an internet site. Enjoy it for what it’s worth.
Will increasing or decreasing the number of entries really change the popularity contest’s basis or results? Probably not in the least bit. Every couple weeks there will be personal preferences voiced and voted on in an attempt to select the winner. These choices won't necessarily be made based on photographic merit...but rather personal feelings and emotins. Take it for the game it is. Just kiss some behind and pander for votes from friends and strangers if winning is that important to you. . To get selected you might praise the work of the people in charge of the final selections, Garnish them with praise on all their photographs and posts. If you don’t think that will be enough to persuade them to pick your photo.......you could send the selection committee some money or camera equipment. You might just take self satisfaction that you took a good shot and continue taking more quality shots. If you don’t like the rules and questionable practices of the challenge....DON’T ENTER IT!!
Happy shooting
MM
I got an idea - why don't we have a ten-party democratic system, where we would submit our entries as one of ten different photographic approaches to the challenge at hand. then we'd have a primary to vote for the best for each approach, then all vote for the best, then honorable Andy can make a final determination. The whole process can take four years, and we can say "luvitorleaveit", or "if you dont like the pictures, go out and take some of your own" (to paraphrase scoop - some of you may know him?).
Which leads to my real two cents about this game - I find myself getting "stressed out" every other sunday evening trying to get my final entry chosen and submitted (rather than dealing with much much more pressing matters in my life - weird pathology), grumbling the whole time about how the monday morning "deadline" doesn't give enough time to process that weekend's pictures.
It would be better if Wednesday were the deadline, that way one would really have two weekends to shoot and process and get feedback. Whadya think of that idea, everybody, huh?
This topic does seem to resurface a lot. In the short time I've been a member here I think I can remember at least three threads dedicated to redefining the challenge. What's the old saying... That dog won't hunt (?)
Anyway, I'm not going to take a swing at the mechanics of the dGrin voting polls. I happen to think the system is fairly sophisticated, or at least kinda cool.
But I will make a suggestion by borrowing, in part, from another site that would alleviate some of Andy's workload: The winner of a challenge comes up with the idea for and acts as judge selecting the finalists in the next challenge.
I believe over a short period of time we would see a shift in styles and wins because a very different person would judge each time. I also believe this would eliminate the accusations of favortism we've seen posted before and would remove that target from Andy's back.
Just my $.02 worth, which will no doubt place me higher on certain "hate" lists :
The challenge is just a popularity contest. Nothing more...nothing less. It's not like it's based on any real photographic merit. It starts off with the selection of the finalists.......which often times seems to be directed with personal preferences instead of any basic principles of a quality photograph. Many excellent photographs are often overlooked for whimsical or mildly clever snapshots. There seems to be some difficulty distinguishing between photographs and snap shots to represent the final selections. After this initial selection...... these "favorite" photos/snapshots are thrown into a vote by which the members decide the "winner".
The voting community’s experience, often varying from great inexperience and beginners to advanced amateurs and professionals...... are left with the decision and selection of the winner. . The best photograph doesn't always win the challenge. Sometimes it doesn’t even make the final cut. The winner is often times just the most popular person or entered the most liked photo. This image is not necessarily the superior photo. People vote for their friends and family members. Unqualified and inexperienced members vote for an image they like. Their votes counting equaly to the experienced amateur and professinal's vote. How much merit can such a "challenge/contest" hold?
Why is there so much concern about entry numbers and rules for a popularity contest? If you don’t like the nonsense...don’t enter. You need to consider what you are entering into...and the source of the outcome. Neither is that important. Seems some people are putting too much importance on this optional event. The challenge seems to be around for "the fun of it". It’s not a major professional jurried photo contest with huge expensive prizes and prestigious honors. It’s just a little contest on an internet site. Enjoy it for what it’s worth.
Will increasing or decreasing the number of entries really change the popularity contest’s basis or results? Probably not in the least bit. Every couple weeks there will be personal preferences voiced and voted on in an attempt to select the winner. These choices won't necessarily be made based on photographic merit...but rather personal feelings and emotins. Take it for the game it is. Just kiss some behind and pander for votes from friends and strangers if winning is that important to you. . To get selected you might praise the work of the people in charge of the final selections, Garnish them with praise on all their photographs and posts. If you don’t think that will be enough to persuade them to pick your photo.......you could send the selection committee some money or camera equipment. You might just take self satisfaction that you took a good shot and continue taking more quality shots. If you don’t like the rules and questionable practices of the challenge....DON’T ENTER IT!!
Happy shooting
MM
or......................................someones taken a great shot & other people liked it also.
or......................................someones taken a great shot & other people liked it also.
.........I didn't exclude that possibility. I did feel the correct image actually won the self portrait challenge. This is why one uses words like often, sometimes, seems like,occasionally, etc.. For instance. Sometimes the best photo actually wins the challenge. Occasionally a mediocre snapshot wins the challenge. A non entry NEVER wins the challenge. See the difference?
.........I didn't exclude that possibility. I did feel the correct image actually won the self portrait challenge. This is why one uses words like often, sometimes, seems like,occasionally, etc.. For instance. Sometimes the best photo actually wins the challenge. Occasionally a mediocre snapshot wins the challenge. A non entry NEVER wins the challenge. See the difference?
Cheers
MM
I wasnt even considering the portrait one. I am just always guarded about reading too much into things.
I just don't know where to begin, so I don't think I will right now anyway.
ginger (uh, does anyone have the addy, again, where these things are stored so I can go assess this situation.)
It is my experience, just for the record, that even with the sometimes liberal cronyism in the voting process, that is not enough to influence the "end" result. Over 1oo people vote, and I have about two friends I can call on......but I cannot vote for them, they are individuals in their own right, so I am not even assurred that.
I will say that if we are not to take this small "challenge" thing seriously for many reasons, then how do we feel when we win? If we do. Someone is going to win this thing. And I personally do think there are very good photos up there. Maybe not generating the most interest ever. Time is what tells on this stuff, another one of my opinions. But the finalists, well, they were good in my opinion, as were some of the non finalists. Some did the type of photography I like, and some, a few did not.
I just have to mention that by now some people ought to know that if I don't think Snapshots can also be termed art, there is a fine line. It takes a brave person to reach out and touch that line. I just don't know how you, or you, or anyone can say whether the best photo won.
Sorry, I have been up all night, probably not making much sense, but I did get the resolution changed on my monitor, and my PC now accepts cookies from the USAToday people. Small steps.
And my son has his heart kind of looked at tomorrow/today, angioplasty or something. He is 44.
I have my own theories on some of the factors, and I don't think it is in the sucking up. I won as a teacher's "pet", and I won as an "irritant". And didn't win but once inbetween. And that WAS a good photo, but then I think it has stood the test of time. Just my opinion. So, in actuality, some might say I only won once!
And I don't suck up!
I even criticised "someone's" photo once. I left the criticism up for about a day before I felt foolish and took it down.
The challenge is just a popularity contest. Nothing more...
or, on the other hand, the co-judges could be spending an average of 60 minutes per week, every week, critically reviewing the images submitted, as to photographic, artistic, and theme, and then going over it all again once a fortnight, to get to the ten.
maybe we should have a vote for the voting system:D
Seriously, leave it alone, "fixing it" will bring up a whole laundry list of new objections.
It's fine. It's a game. It builds skills and confidence, showing one's work. It's subjective. I don't like bird pictures - there I said it, I've "come out". But I like Harry's and Ginger's (and others) shots just the same. I like the idea of the past challenge winner choosing his/her favorites - part of the reward - getting to be king (like Andy ).
Now, who do I have to suck up to, befriend, pay off - to get into the top ten? I've got a five'r with someone's name on it . . .:haha
I knew, of course, that trees and plants had roots, stems, bark, branches and foliage that reached up toward the light. But I was coming to realize that the real magician was light itself.
Edward Steichen
maybe we should have a vote for the voting system:D
Seriously, leave it alone, "fixing it" will bring up a whole laundry list of new objections.
It's fine. It's a game. It builds skills and confidence, showing one's work. It's subjective. I don't like bird pictures - there I said it, I've "come out". But I like Harry's and Ginger's (and others) shots just the same. I like the idea of the past challenge winner choosing his/her favorites - part of the reward - getting to be king (like Andy ).
Now, who do I have to suck up to, befriend, pay off - to get into the top ten? I've got a five'r with someone's name on it . . .:haha
Now I can live with a compliment like that a long time. I came back to tell you how I am smiling at being mentioned with Harry!
I have to look to see what photos you do like. The birds have kind of gotten a bit redundant, then these Nikon shooters just get better.
I haven't been out for awhile. Have been waiting for the big migration that is supposed to bring us Eagles. They will probably get a disappointment, but something else could pop up at the same place.
We have had crummy weather, too.
Anyway, I agree with your post, except I love the birds, sometimes more than my bird photography. Amazing how creatures can be so much like people.
I also agree on the game thing and the building of skills. And I agree that there are many good elements incorporated into this challenge.
Now if I could just figure out where the "dirt" is,
thanks, again, smiling here,
don't know about Harry,
ginger (I thought you mentioned a 5 spot. The person to suck up to will be announced later this afternoon, I think. With Andy, well, it would probably get kind of expensive in B & H.)
Hey, would a bidding war be an improvement? Or bribery, whatever it is called. We could give 10% to charity.
I knew, of course, that trees and plants had roots, stems, bark, branches and foliage that reached up toward the light. But I was coming to realize that the real magician was light itself.
Edward Steichen
this probably isn't the right place to ask this but, it's not the first time i've see a comment regarding "snap shots" and it's usually used as a derogative term. I've been taking pictures for about a year an a half now, family and friends got tired of all my pictures and one of them sent me here so i could have another group of people to annoy aren't you all lucky? enough rambling, can someone explain snap shots versus photos? i don't mind being annoying but i don't want to offend. I like the contest just like it is, even if I don't enter it makes me look at things differently...like having a whole new world to enjoy.
this probably isn't the right place to ask this but, it's not the first time i've see a comment regarding "snap shots" and it's usually used as a derogative term. I've been taking pictures for about a year an a half now, family and friends got tired of all my pictures and one of them sent me here so i could have another group of people to annoy aren't you all lucky? enough rambling, can someone explain snap shots versus photos? i don't mind being annoying but i don't want to offend. I like the contest just like it is, even if I don't enter it makes me look at things differently...like having a whole new world to enjoy.
enough rambling, can someone explain snap shots versus photos? i don't mind being annoying but i don't want to offend. I like the contest just like it is, even if I don't enter it makes me look at things differently...like having a whole new world
first off you people have way to much free time the contest has changed and more than likely will do that more over time but it is very good the way it is [even tho I have never won:cry ] nor have i ever posted a picture that i thought should win and if you ever wanted to go to dinner with 4 people ,you may starve .The contest has grown and is very good the way it is here's one
snap shot family picture ,shot you take on a trip that you know about and photo is a shot you take that makes someone feel something ,want to be there ,cry ,get fuzzy feeling or just say dam that's good .Now that will get one of the pros to explain what I just said and Andy beat me to it but with a lot more words
this probably isn't the right place to ask this but, it's not the first time i've see a comment regarding "snap shots" and it's usually used as a derogative term. I've been taking pictures for about a year an a half now, family and friends got tired of all my pictures and one of them sent me here so i could have another group of people to annoy aren't you all lucky? enough rambling, can someone explain snap shots versus photos? i don't mind being annoying but i don't want to offend. I like the contest just like it is, even if I don't enter it makes me look at things differently...like having a whole new world to enjoy.
Depends on who you ask, ask one pro, a snapshot is a photograph that is not up to the serious standards of our craft.
Ask another pro, a snapshot is the capturing of a moment in time, an art in and of itself.
Ask me, it is a matter of semantics and people should stop running down a photograph with the word "snapshot". It is the "n" word of photography, when it should just be a classification in the art of photography, of which there may be, I concede this, different skill levels.
Uh, huh, now you all may ignore me, or close the thread. I really really feel strongly about snapshots. If I could just remember the guy who did them so well, I would go into this in more depth. I can't find it. It was a 70s thing.
ginger (you know when you give all those school kids a camera and they go shoot what they want....................no one runs that stuff down as snapshots. The "best" ones, probably picked by Andy and one other person, get displayed as art.)
However, even I wouldn't dare call anyone's work here a snapshot. I might get, uh, shot. Seriously shot!:hide
I was thinking while looking at some very good photographs of a squirrel.
A "good" photograph could be said to have taken by a camera at a clockwise 30 degree tilt, for the sake of interest.
A snapshot, could be said to have been taken at a straight on boring static camera position.
(unless a portrait photographed by Yuri, he could use any camera angle, don't think I have seen one of his that could be termed a snapshot) If he were to switch to portraits of squirrels, I am not sure if that would still hold.
System does allow it, with Vbulletin (which is the curreny forum software) you can set the poll's up to as many as you like, the default is set at 10.
And the last one bothers me, if your getting paid for it (not sure if your joking or not) then that kinda defeats the purpose of these challenges of helping others. It then makes it seem more like a job then anything else. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that.
And the last one bothers me, if your getting paid for it (not sure if your joking or not) then that kinda defeats the purpose of these challenges of helping others. It then makes it seem more like a job then anything else. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that.
yeah. you're wrong would you like to see my bank of baldwanistan account? it's full of baldy-bucks
jds, i and the rest of the mods here are a volunteer army.
So who is putting all that money into my bank account then ? I always assumed it was baldy.
I can't be the only one getting paid.
I really hate these challenges. On almost every forum I've participated in they have caused more silliness than anything else. Has anybody's life changed after they won one of these things? The last time I won a challenge I told Linda and she said "That's nice dear, have you taken out the garbage yet"? When I used to go to Times Square with Andy to document one of his KPOTDs we were the only two looking at that display on Times Square. Andy tried to stop a couple of tourists to give them his autograph but they got scared and ran off.
The idea is not to win as if you really won anything anyhow. The idea is to participate, have some fun and to grow your photography. Thats the real win in these stupid things. The voting is meaningless, its the participation and growth that gives these things whatever value they have.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
I really hate these challenges. On almost every forum I've participated in they have caused more silliness than anything else. Has anybody's life changed after they won one of these things? The last time I won a challenge I told Linda and she said "That's nice dear, have you taken out the garbage yet"? When I used to go to Times Square with Andy to document one of his KPOTDs we were the only two looking at that display on Times Square. Andy tried to stop a couple of tourists to give them his autograph but they got scared and ran off.
The idea is not to win as if you really won anything anyhow. The idea is to participate, have some fun and to grow your photography. Thats the real win in these stupid things. The voting is meaningless, its the participation and growth that gives these things whatever value they have.
So who is putting all that money into my bank account then ? I always assumed it was baldy.
It was me, the feds were watching me and I needed to put it someplace.
And I want it back . . . let's see with interest it should be $3299.95 (just enough to cover a 5D). I can PM you with an address to wire it to me . . .
Or I might be willing to take a working "time machine" as a trade
I knew, of course, that trees and plants had roots, stems, bark, branches and foliage that reached up toward the light. But I was coming to realize that the real magician was light itself.
Edward Steichen
Now for my $0.02 worth, "you can't please all the people all of the time". Our system is "OUR" system. Sure it has it's flaws, it's idiosyncrasies, but that's what makes it what it is. "OURS". Other forums use other systems and if they work for them, then great. As Harry stated recently, it's about growing our photography. TTFN o-;
I really hate these challenges. On almost every forum I've participated in they have caused more silliness than anything else. Has anybody's life changed after they won one of these things? The last time I won a challenge I told Linda and she said "That's nice dear, have you taken out the garbage yet"? When I used to go to Times Square with Andy to document one of his KPOTDs we were the only two looking at that display on Times Square. Andy tried to stop a couple of tourists to give them his autograph but they got scared and ran off.
The idea is not to win as if you really won anything anyhow. The idea is to participate, have some fun and to grow your photography. Thats the real win in these stupid things. The voting is meaningless, its the participation and growth that gives these things whatever value they have.
I really hate these challenges. On almost every forum I've participated in they have caused more silliness than anything else. Has anybody's life changed after they won one of these things? The last time I won a challenge I told Linda and she said "That's nice dear, have you taken out the garbage yet"? When I used to go to Times Square with Andy to document one of his KPOTDs we were the only two looking at that display on Times Square. Andy tried to stop a couple of tourists to give them his autograph but they got scared and ran off.
The idea is not to win as if you really won anything anyhow. The idea is to participate, have some fun and to grow your photography. Thats the real win in these stupid things. The voting is meaningless, its the participation and growth that gives these things whatever value they have.
Harry,
I agree.
When you throw ego into the control pot it is set up to fail. I get more confidence about my photography when I post a shot in any given forum and get responses like "WOW". I know I have done what I set out to do. That is what I want my photography to be about. It doesn't inflame my ego..it boosts my confidence. It tells me that I am on the right track. Idealization and feeding of an individual ego doesn't help someone become a better photographer, it helps them become an ego maniac.
Challenges are, IMHO, supposed to be about an individual's style of shooting, and how well it meets the challenge criteria. I will continue to participate in challenges because I enjoy the challenge to shoot something I may not have been inclined to shoot before. It helps me keep my eyes open to new and different and for that I am greatful.
When you throw ego into the control pot it is set up to fail. I get more confidence about my photography when I post a shot in any given forum and get responses like "WOW". I know I have done what I set out to do. That is what I want my photography to be about. It doesn't inflame my ego..it boosts my confidence. It tells me that I am on the right track. Idealization and feeding of an individual ego doesn't help someone become a better photographer, it helps them become an ego maniac.
Challenges are, IMHO, supposed to be about an individual's style of shooting, and how well it meets the challenge criteria. I will continue to participate in challenges because I enjoy the challenge to shoot something I may not have been inclined to shoot before. It helps me keep my eyes open to new and different and for that I am greatful.
Hey Trish,
Don't be so hard on egos. Everytime we post a picture we are pretty much saying "heh, look at what I did". Everytime we praise a picture we are also feeding an ego and thats OK. For myself, my ego needs a pat very once in awhile (every 5 seconds is preferred ).
Most of us here don't sell our work. Our friends and family mostly run away and hide when we try to show them our latest efforts. The only place we can show our stuff is on these forums and challenges. Our starved egos need a feeding every once in awhile. As for the maniac part lets add up how much we have spent on our "hobby". Let anyone here w/o an ego and who isn't a "maniac" cast that proverbial first stone. Myself I don't qualify.
Harry http://behret.smugmug.com/NANPA member How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Comments
What criteria do you and Rutt use that you have learned? Is it intuitive? Or is it something you can share?
I know we are supposed to be able to judge our own work, but I have also read by good sources that photographers are very often not the best judges of their own work. I have read that very often we are not even good judges of their work.
I must be a hell of a good photographer because I sure can't judge my stuff for a challenge, or much of anything else: except the last one and that was pretty bad. But I have put up something I thought was one of my best things I ever did and had it not make the finals, then put up something just the best of the moment, but not the best ever, and won (not the last time, I have a pretty good idea on that), but I am constantly surprised by the shots people like of mine.
ginger (any feedback on this, you can PM me, you can do anything, I would sure like to know more on judging our own photos)
The voting community’s experience, often varying from great inexperience and beginners to advanced amateurs and professionals...... are left with the decision and selection of the winner. . The best photograph doesn't always win the challenge. Sometimes it doesn’t even make the final cut. The winner is often times just the most popular person or entered the most liked photo. This image is not necessarily the superior photo. People vote for their friends and family members. Unqualified and inexperienced members vote for an image they like. Their votes counting equaly to the experienced amateur and professinal's vote. How much merit can such a "challenge/contest" hold?
Why is there so much concern about entry numbers and rules for a popularity contest? If you don’t like the nonsense...don’t enter. You need to consider what you are entering into...and the source of the outcome. Neither is that important. Seems some people are putting too much importance on this optional event. The challenge seems to be around for "the fun of it". It’s not a major professional jurried photo contest with huge expensive prizes and prestigious honors. It’s just a little contest on an internet site. Enjoy it for what it’s worth.
Will increasing or decreasing the number of entries really change the popularity contest’s basis or results? Probably not in the least bit. Every couple weeks there will be personal preferences voiced and voted on in an attempt to select the winner. These choices won't necessarily be made based on photographic merit...but rather personal feelings and emotins. Take it for the game it is. Just kiss some behind and pander for votes from friends and strangers if winning is that important to you. . To get selected you might praise the work of the people in charge of the final selections, Garnish them with praise on all their photographs and posts. If you don’t think that will be enough to persuade them to pick your photo.......you could send the selection committee some money or camera equipment. You might just take self satisfaction that you took a good shot and continue taking more quality shots. If you don’t like the rules and questionable practices of the challenge....DON’T ENTER IT!!
Happy shooting
MM
"Osprey Whisperer"
OspreyWhisperer.com
Which leads to my real two cents about this game - I find myself getting "stressed out" every other sunday evening trying to get my final entry chosen and submitted (rather than dealing with much much more pressing matters in my life - weird pathology), grumbling the whole time about how the monday morning "deadline" doesn't give enough time to process that weekend's pictures.
It would be better if Wednesday were the deadline, that way one would really have two weekends to shoot and process and get feedback. Whadya think of that idea, everybody, huh?
Anyway, I'm not going to take a swing at the mechanics of the dGrin voting polls. I happen to think the system is fairly sophisticated, or at least kinda cool.
But I will make a suggestion by borrowing, in part, from another site that would alleviate some of Andy's workload: The winner of a challenge comes up with the idea for and acts as judge selecting the finalists in the next challenge.
I believe over a short period of time we would see a shift in styles and wins because a very different person would judge each time. I also believe this would eliminate the accusations of favortism we've seen posted before and would remove that target from Andy's back.
Just my $.02 worth, which will no doubt place me higher on certain "hate" lists
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
Cheers
MM
"Osprey Whisperer"
OspreyWhisperer.com
I just don't know where to begin, so I don't think I will right now anyway.
ginger (uh, does anyone have the addy, again, where these things are stored so I can go assess this situation.)
It is my experience, just for the record, that even with the sometimes liberal cronyism in the voting process, that is not enough to influence the "end" result. Over 1oo people vote, and I have about two friends I can call on......but I cannot vote for them, they are individuals in their own right, so I am not even assurred that.
I will say that if we are not to take this small "challenge" thing seriously for many reasons, then how do we feel when we win? If we do. Someone is going to win this thing. And I personally do think there are very good photos up there. Maybe not generating the most interest ever. Time is what tells on this stuff, another one of my opinions. But the finalists, well, they were good in my opinion, as were some of the non finalists. Some did the type of photography I like, and some, a few did not.
I just have to mention that by now some people ought to know that if I don't think Snapshots can also be termed art, there is a fine line. It takes a brave person to reach out and touch that line. I just don't know how you, or you, or anyone can say whether the best photo won.
Sorry, I have been up all night, probably not making much sense, but I did get the resolution changed on my monitor, and my PC now accepts cookies from the USAToday people. Small steps.
And my son has his heart kind of looked at tomorrow/today, angioplasty or something. He is 44.
I have my own theories on some of the factors, and I don't think it is in the sucking up. I won as a teacher's "pet", and I won as an "irritant". And didn't win but once inbetween. And that WAS a good photo, but then I think it has stood the test of time. Just my opinion. So, in actuality, some might say I only won once!
And I don't suck up!
I even criticised "someone's" photo once. I left the criticism up for about a day before I felt foolish and took it down.
g
or, on the other hand, the co-judges could be spending an average of 60 minutes per week, every week, critically reviewing the images submitted, as to photographic, artistic, and theme, and then going over it all again once a fortnight, to get to the ten.
good grief.
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Seriously, leave it alone, "fixing it" will bring up a whole laundry list of new objections.
It's fine. It's a game. It builds skills and confidence, showing one's work. It's subjective. I don't like bird pictures - there I said it, I've "come out". But I like Harry's and Ginger's (and others) shots just the same. I like the idea of the past challenge winner choosing his/her favorites - part of the reward - getting to be king (like Andy
Now, who do I have to suck up to, befriend, pay off - to get into the top ten? I've got a five'r with someone's name on it . . .:haha
I knew, of course, that trees and plants had roots, stems, bark, branches and foliage that reached up toward the light. But I was coming to realize that the real magician was light itself.
Edward Steichen
I have to look to see what photos you do like. The birds have kind of gotten a bit redundant, then these Nikon shooters just get better.
I haven't been out for awhile. Have been waiting for the big migration that is supposed to bring us Eagles. They will probably get a disappointment, but something else could pop up at the same place.
We have had crummy weather, too.
Anyway, I agree with your post, except I love the birds, sometimes more than my bird photography. Amazing how creatures can be so much like people.
I also agree on the game thing and the building of skills. And I agree that there are many good elements incorporated into this challenge.
Now if I could just figure out where the "dirt" is,
thanks, again, smiling here,
don't know about Harry,
ginger (I thought you mentioned a 5 spot. The person to suck up to will be announced later this afternoon, I think. With Andy, well, it would probably get kind of expensive in B & H.)
Hey, would a bidding war be an improvement? Or bribery, whatever it is called. We could give 10% to charity.
My Galleries
Flicker
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Resistance is futile . . .
I'm being drawn to the dark side . . .
I have the odd desire to photograph herons or egrets or maybe even a lowly sandhill crane . . .
I knew, of course, that trees and plants had roots, stems, bark, branches and foliage that reached up toward the light. But I was coming to realize that the real magician was light itself.
Edward Steichen
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first off you people have way to much free time the contest has changed and more than likely will do that more over time but it is very good the way it is [even tho I have never won:cry ] nor have i ever posted a picture that i thought should win and if you ever wanted to go to dinner with 4 people ,you may starve .The contest has grown and is very good the way it is
snap shot family picture ,shot you take on a trip that you know about and photo is a shot you take that makes someone feel something ,want to be there ,cry ,get fuzzy feeling or just say dam that's good .Now that will get one of the pros to explain what I just said
“PHOTOGRAPHY IS THE ‘JAZZ’ FOR THE EYES…”
http://jwear.smugmug.com/
Depends on who you ask, ask one pro, a snapshot is a photograph that is not up to the serious standards of our craft.
Ask another pro, a snapshot is the capturing of a moment in time, an art in and of itself.
Ask me, it is a matter of semantics and people should stop running down a photograph with the word "snapshot". It is the "n" word of photography, when it should just be a classification in the art of photography, of which there may be, I concede this, different skill levels.
Uh, huh, now you all may ignore me, or close the thread. I really really feel strongly about snapshots. If I could just remember the guy who did them so well, I would go into this in more depth. I can't find it. It was a 70s thing.
ginger (you know when you give all those school kids a camera and they go shoot what they want....................no one runs that stuff down as snapshots. The "best" ones, probably picked by Andy and one other person, get displayed as art.)
However, even I wouldn't dare call anyone's work here a snapshot. I might get, uh, shot. Seriously shot!:hide
A "good" photograph could be said to have taken by a camera at a clockwise 30 degree tilt, for the sake of interest.
A snapshot, could be said to have been taken at a straight on boring static camera position.
(unless a portrait photographed by Yuri, he could use any camera angle, don't think I have seen one of his that could be termed a snapshot) If he were to switch to portraits of squirrels, I am not sure if that would still hold.
System does allow it, with Vbulletin (which is the curreny forum software) you can set the poll's up to as many as you like, the default is set at 10.
And the last one bothers me, if your getting paid for it (not sure if your joking or not) then that kinda defeats the purpose of these challenges of helping others. It then makes it seem more like a job then anything else. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that.
our system doesn't allow it. ten. or fewer.
yeah. you're wrong
jds, i and the rest of the mods here are a volunteer army.
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We may be volunteers, but one day we shall RULE THE WORLD!
(sorry, n00b enthusiasm creeped up again)
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I really hate these challenges. On almost every forum I've participated in they have caused more silliness than anything else. Has anybody's life changed after they won one of these things? The last time I won a challenge I told Linda and she said "That's nice dear, have you taken out the garbage yet"? When I used to go to Times Square with Andy to document one of his KPOTDs we were the only two looking at that display on Times Square. Andy tried to stop a couple of tourists to give them his autograph but they got scared and ran off.
The idea is not to win as if you really won anything anyhow. The idea is to participate, have some fun and to grow your photography. Thats the real win in these stupid things. The voting is meaningless, its the participation and growth that gives these things whatever value they have.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Very, very well said.
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And I want it back . . . let's see with interest it should be $3299.95 (just enough to cover a 5D). I can PM you with an address to wire it to me . . .
Or I might be willing to take a working "time machine" as a trade
I knew, of course, that trees and plants had roots, stems, bark, branches and foliage that reached up toward the light. But I was coming to realize that the real magician was light itself.
Edward Steichen
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Harry,
I agree.
When you throw ego into the control pot it is set up to fail. I get more confidence about my photography when I post a shot in any given forum and get responses like "WOW". I know I have done what I set out to do. That is what I want my photography to be about. It doesn't inflame my ego..it boosts my confidence. It tells me that I am on the right track. Idealization and feeding of an individual ego doesn't help someone become a better photographer, it helps them become an ego maniac.
Challenges are, IMHO, supposed to be about an individual's style of shooting, and how well it meets the challenge criteria. I will continue to participate in challenges because I enjoy the challenge to shoot something I may not have been inclined to shoot before. It helps me keep my eyes open to new and different and for that I am greatful.
Don't be so hard on egos.
Most of us here don't sell our work. Our friends and family mostly run away and hide when we try to show them our latest efforts. The only place we can show our stuff is on these forums and challenges. Our starved egos need a feeding every once in awhile. As for the maniac part lets add up how much we have spent on our "hobby". Let anyone here w/o an ego and who isn't a "maniac" cast that proverbial first stone. Myself I don't qualify.
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"