Indoor Sports (Professional Stadium)
splashtrack
Registered Users Posts: 32 Big grins
Hello,
First post here.
I'm about to do the coverage of both Handball Youth's World Cup and FIBA Basketaball Tournament the next month.
Never did an event like this.
The venue is a professional stadium like NBA ones, so I guess the lighting will be great.
Using a rented Canon 7D + a 70-200 f/2.8L seems like I have too much lens so I will try 18-200 f/4-5.6
What can you suggest me in order of equipment? I have many other options to rent, so this equipment (lenses) can change.
I read all the indoor topics but all them referred to college/university gyms with have poor light, but this case, I will have a lot of light (I guess).
Thanks for any help!
First post here.
I'm about to do the coverage of both Handball Youth's World Cup and FIBA Basketaball Tournament the next month.
Never did an event like this.
The venue is a professional stadium like NBA ones, so I guess the lighting will be great.
Using a rented Canon 7D + a 70-200 f/2.8L seems like I have too much lens so I will try 18-200 f/4-5.6
What can you suggest me in order of equipment? I have many other options to rent, so this equipment (lenses) can change.
I read all the indoor topics but all them referred to college/university gyms with have poor light, but this case, I will have a lot of light (I guess).
Thanks for any help!
0
Comments
What type of coverage are you trying to do?
You can't shoot indoor sports with a lens that slow.
http://www.knippixels.com
That is full media access.
@nipprdog which type is better?
Since you have asked which focal length to use and why one f-stop is better than the other I can only draw the conclusion that you have either not shot these sports before or have very little experience in shooting these sports. Therefore my suggestion would be to leave the camera and lenses at home. Use your media access to interview the players and coaches, sit in the press box and enjoy the games. To put it bluntly if you have to ask which lens to use you are not ready to take advantage of "full media access".
Practice shooting some games where "full media access" would not be required and then with that experience you will be better prepared to ask the kind of questions that will improve your shooting at these type of events. I would further venture a guess that after you have shot several games you yourself will be able to answer the questions you have asked.
Hello Pipster,
Thanks for your answer.
I've been unemployed for around 1 year.
Recently got a job in a news agency and they assigned me to do this job.
I've had photography classes in the early 90's but I can't remember a thing.
Anyways, I did some experience taking pictures at motorsports, football-soccer, tennis and some other sports. All them outdoors.
Never had an indoor sport. That's why I'm asking for tips, suggestions, and so on.
I can't interview people because I'm not assigned to do so apart that I don't have the hability to do it.
I don't like to sit and watch the game, because they pay me for been there and take pictures.
So I have to do it the best possible.
They are offering me to choose which kit is better.
What I need to know is, based on experienced people in the forum, which could be the best setup if you have the chance to tailor it as you like.
My type is among the "instinctive" photographers, with few or no education.
My classes are in the past and I don't have time to learn everything about f-stops, and all the theory now.
I'm already in the train.
Thanks again, your words are correct, but this time I won't let this chance slip through my hands.
They pay and I need the money.
Regards,
Awesome Phil! That's what I was expecting to find in the forums.
No problem, if you ever get a free airfare ticket to Argentia, I'll be there. Just kidding! Enjoy!
The hardest part is learning about the interaction of the "Exposure Triangle" settings - ISO, Shutter Speed and f/stop. You want to start by setting the ISO to a small amount - say 800 for example, then set shutter speed to 1/500 or so, and check the resulting f/stop. Take a shot, if it is underexposed by looking at the histogram on the camera, then increase the ISO until you get a centered white histogram. I would try not to go beyond 1600 ISO. Then it becomes an iterative process.
If you feel uncomfortable doing this then try Program mode. Test this out, it is more automatic.
Phil
"You don't take a photograph, you make it." ~Ansel Adams
Phil
I tried to delete my original and reset it but it posted it before I could delete and reload. I wrote the text offline and posted it to the forum. Just a timing issue.
"You don't take a photograph, you make it." ~Ansel Adams
Phil
Let's start with equipment. What does "too much lens" mean? The 7D + 70-200 f/2.8L sounds like it would be a good combo for this. The 18-200 is not the lens you want. Honestly, it is absolutely useless in this situation. No matter how well you use your camera, the 18-200 will not get you photos anywhere near the quality of photos taken with the 70-200 f/2.8. You say you have many other options... look for lenses with a low f-number. F/4-5.6 on the 18-200 is way too high. F/2.8 is getting better, but are there any lenses with an f/2 or f/1.8? They won't be zoom lenses, but they will get you better photos usually. 200mm f/2, 135mm f/2, 100mm f/2, 85mm f/1.8... in that order. I would rent a 135 f/2 if I were you, in addition to using the 70-200 f/2.8. That 200mm f/2 is pretty expensive, but maybe the news agency has one? Or a 300mm f/2.8 or 400mm f/2.8? Does the news agency offer you equipment to use? See what they have. For cameras, the 7D is good, but see if they have a 1D mark IV or a 5D mark II. The 1DmkIV and 5Dmk2 do better in low light. However, if they don't have either of those, the 7D is fine.
Now for technique. I would use Av mode, aka Aperture Priority. Set the aperture to the lowest possible (f/2, f/2.8... depends on the lens) and set the ISO to 800. Take a test shot, and see what Tv (shutter speed) you're getting. If it's less than 1/1000th, I'd bump up the ISO to 1600. If you're still not getting 1/1000th, you may be able to bump it higher without degrading image quality, but I'm not familiar with the 7D. If you have good noise reduction software (Noise Ninja, Adobe Lightroom 3, etc.), you may be able to go to ISO 2000, but then again I'm not familiar with the 7D. The higher the shutter speed, the less blurry the action, and the better the photo (generally). For example, 1/1000th is better than 1/250th. 1/250th will get blurry photos if there is fast action. 1/500th is the minimum, but it's still blurry if the action is fast. 1/1000th or higher is best, because the high setting freezes the action in the photo.
To sum it up, choose a lens with the lowest f-number possible. The 70-200 has f/2.8, but see if you can find an f/2. If not, then f/2.8 is fine. But nothing higher than f/2.8. When you've got the gear, set your camera to the lowest f-number, and to ISO 800, and if the shutter speed isn't close to 1/1000th, then set the ISO to 1600.
They will provide me with a list of the equipment available. For other options I got the rent (and check first availability, of course).
Thanks again for all the advice. I will write down all your and test test test.
Well written and said.
I use aperture priority for stationary objects - portraits etc., but for action shots I used Shutter Priority or TV in Canon speak.
In TV you are setting the ideal shutter speed you want to prevent blur or in some in cases to induce blur. In this case if your primary focus is the action on the court then I recommend TV,
If your primary shots are on the sidelines then Aperture Priority or AV may be fine. If you are taking action primarily and taking some sidelines shots you can stay with TV but you may want to reduce shutter speed to increase f/stop for group shots.
Unfortunately this take experience. So try both and learn from it.
Quite a bit to learn in short time. So try both and take a lots and lots of shots and check the settings for each shot and learn from them.
Read about "Exposure Triangle" at this link: http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/camera-exposure.htm These are the key concepts that photographers must learn and understand.
Phil
"You don't take a photograph, you make it." ~Ansel Adams
Phil
Just my thinking... I usually shoot in manual anyway, but in key situations where I have to perform, I sometimes use Aperture Priority. Keeps it simple and reduces user error
Not really. When shooting sports, ss is critical. Allowing the camera any kind of leeway can produce junk. Take test shots before the event and get the settings down. Then get in manual and shoot away.
To OP,I am also going to agree with others that having a paid shoot and asking all these questions is not a good recipe for success. If you can shoot some kind of indoor event before hand do it.
I agree too! but I got to do this job and can't refuse it. They already paid and I need money to pay the bills. Simply as that.
If I were in the position of choose the best option, I would prefer having previous expertise, but I can't choose.
Thanks!
Good luck with the event. The reason I think its a bad move is if you want continued work with said client. You may get this one time gig but lose future ones. Only you can answer if this is worth it to you. It is also unusual to get paid before the event. I have worked with publications and agencies and have never gotten paid before hand.
If this were an offer that you couldn't pass up, then it must mean you are getting paid pretty good. The expectations my be high. There is also more to shooting sports other than freezing action. There is also timing the action and understanding the game. I do hope your client knows you have no experience doing this.
If the light is uniform, say cloudy, then I will usually shoot manual. If the light is changing a lot, say partly cloudy, then I usually use aperture priority. I have enough to worry about: comp (not so much with sports, but still some), angle, the next angle, who/what to shoot and so much more. Honestly I have been shooting in manual then forgot to change my settings as the light changed a little... yes, I know, but fortunately it wasn't a paid gig. Especially in outdoor sports when half the field is shade and half is sun. I do make sure I'm using the right metering mode, and I know what my camera can do and what it can't. I just use whatever settings I think will do the job best and get the best photos in my hand at the end of the day. Sometimes that's manual. Sometimes, it's Aperture Priority.
Edit: I also make sure that the camera is staying around a reasonable SS. If the amount of light is questionable then I'll shoot manual and just leave it at my minimum possible shutter speed. If it gets really dark, I'll underexpose on purpose and increase the exposure in post. It introduces some noise, but that's better than blur.
That was a really harsh response that wasn't warranted & certainly doesn't promote the "lend a helping hand" spirit that Dgrin is based around. Instead of chastising the OP, it would have been more appropriate to answer the question with an answer that helped. Or in this case, not replied at all. All photographers have to start somewhere & that's why we have this forum; for everyone to openly ask questions & exchange techniques freely. One doesn't have to have significant experience to be granted sideline access. Based on your response, you'd htink the OP was given sideline access at the Superbowl.
twin Mark IV's & a bunch of "L" glass
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The 7D + 70-200 2.8 will be a great combo. Just remember to give yourself ample space between you & the subject. Because the 7D is a 1.6x crop sensor, the equivalent focal length is 112-320mm. Considering you'll be indoors, 2.8 or better is must. Depending upon the amount of light, you'll need a high ISO as well to obtain a fast enough shutter speed (1/320th)+. If you can get your hands on a speedlight, that would help (only if it's allowed).
twin Mark IV's & a bunch of "L" glass
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I beg to differ. When you get a paid assignment, the stakes are raised. When you have to ask what lens and what settings to use for the assignment, you are not ready to take on the assignment period. I just hope for the sake of the OP expectations are not too high from the client.
I agree with you. With everything considered, the OP came to our forum for guidance. Whether he is able to produce the images his client is looking for, is between him & the client. I certainly hope that he's able to capture images that his client is happy with.
twin Mark IV's & a bunch of "L" glass
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Thank you Travis!
I know the this situation I'm facing is not the best it should be, but, the customer needs the job, no matter the result, he needs to have a lot of pictures.
In other hand, the pay is good if you consider that I'm unemployee until this job, so anything more than zero is a lot.
About the lenses I can choose from, they offered me this lenses:
I'm not shure how good they are but I guess that Zeiss is not a bad thing.
Thanks again everybody!
If that's all they can offer, then I'd rent. ProPhotoRental.com has free shipping, but I've never used them before. However, it looks like they have some good deals. There are other places too.
If you use the Zeiss lenses, that gives you an excuse if your shots don't turn out well
Edit: I can't figure out why a news agency would have those lenses. They are excellent for still subjects, but you'd think most of the news agency jobs are sports/photojournalism? And AF is crucial here. Maybe they're the personal lenses of someone high up in the company?
My client/customer is a friend of mine. He works in mainstream media. He get accreditation to events as easy as 1-2-3.
He wanted to help me but not only lending me money, he prefers to have something in return.
For a project he's needing having pictures of 2 events which will happen next month.
Instead of paying a professional photographer to take pictures, he offered me do it. He provides me with the equipment needed.
The final use of the images will be 1-2 powerpoint slides. No editorial use. No press use.
He's aware of my lack of expertise.
From this event, he will consider me for future jobs of this type. That is, get images to him presentations.
Hope this clarify everything and now we can continue with the indoor sports topic.
Thanks!!
I will end up using the 70-200 f/2.8. Seems like the only way out.
ProPhotoRental.com won't be useful. I'm outside US.
Thanks!!
Zeiss lenses are fantastic; however they are manual focus only & would require a significant amount of experience to nail shots at sporting events. AF is critical & these would be difficult (probably impossible) to use. The 70-200 2.8 that you referenced previously would be your lens. Although, the 135 f2 would be an excellent alternative as well. Just remember to focus the face (particularly the eyes) with any lens you go with. Best of luck to you & please post images!!!
twin Mark IV's & a bunch of "L" glass
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If I had this assignment, and your experience, I would be really worried. So you have credentials. Great. Where are you going to be stationed for the basketball game(s)? How many are you going to shoot? Lighting may or may not be good, unless you have been there and checked it with a light meter. I normally shoot high school basketball with a pair of strobes. Have you ever watched any college games? You will see the strobes going off when the photog fires 'em. Where is the photog sitting? You need to know all of this before ever showing up. Then you will be competing with other photogs for the best spots. Lenses you should have on you include a 24-70 f/2.8, 85 f/1.8, 70-200 f/2.8. Even the 200 f/2 would be great to catch the guys coming up the court towards you. A 300 f/2.8 would be good for shooting action at the far end of the court. I have all of this equipment (except for the 200 f/2.0) and use it regularly during basketball season. I shoot with two bodies, a 1D MK3 and a 7D.
I can't offer any help or advice for handball.
In my opinion, with the gear and experience you have, you will be hard pressed to get very many really good shots.
Final thought. Have you give any thought about how you will handle your white balance?
Good luck.
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Canon EOS 1D MK III and 7d; Canon 100 f/2.0; Canon 17-40 f/4; Canon 24-70 f/2.8; Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS; Canon 300 f/2.8L IS; Canon 1.4x and Sigma 2x; Sigma EF 500 DG Super and Canon 580 EX II.
Hello Michael!
Thanks for your tips.
Believe me that what I don't have is fear or worry.
The tournaments in question are the FIVB Men's Youth World Championship 2011 and the FIBA Americas Championship.
Both tournaments will be playing in a new remodelled arena which looks like a NBA stadium (that is lighting, positions, facilities, etc.)
Your tips, along with other's tips will help me get the best from this opportunity.
@travischance I will upload images! Will let you know.
Here are some samples from football-soccer I took some days ago, as I said earlier.
I can say that have some experience outdoors, but the trouble and the reason of this topic is "indoors".
Check and comment:
Thanks!