Should I wait?

Z06Nut · August 28, 2011

My D80 has been an awesome purchase. My Nikon D80 and I have been through a lot together. It is approaching 100,000 shots without missing a lick. Although it's doing it's job, I feel I could give my clients a much better product with better equipment. My business has grown 10 fold with in the last month and I feel like it will only getting bigger as time goes on. I need a camera with hi iso low noise, better focusing control/speed and long life.

Since I have a good investment in glass I want to stay with Nikon.

I'm looking toward the D300s or D700. Knowing that the "D400" may be just around the corner kills me.
I know the pros and cons of the exciting cameras and feel the "D400" would be a perfect solution.

Should I wait until Nikon gets back on their feet or should I start looking for one that's "available" now?

Matthew Saville · August 28, 2011

I think I've made this recommendation ten times in the last month or two- Pony up and get a used D700 for about $2K. You won't be sorry. Even if a D800 comes out tomorrow, if you're shooting professionally you should have a backup, so in the long run when you eventually buy a D800 the D700 won't be a waste. (And, in my opinion, the D800 is actually a year away still, at least...)

The D300s and D7000 are both great cameras, the D400 WILL be an even better camera, and they certainly CAN get the job done amazingly well in the hands of an experienced pro. However, in my experience, I just find the D700 to be the most useful, versatile tool for a working professional.

=Matt=

ziggy53 · August 28, 2011

Z06Nut wrote: »

... My business has grown 10 fold with in the last month and I feel like it will only getting bigger as time goes on. I need a camera with hi iso low noise, better focusing control/speed and long life.

Since I have a good investment in glass I want to stay with Nikon.

...

Should I wait until Nikon gets back on their feet or should I start looking for one that's "available" now?

What is the nature of your photography business? (What type of photography?)

Z06Nut · August 28, 2011

I shoot mostly automotive and some portraits, charity events and very few weddings. I won't turn down a client. I'll shoot just about anything a client wants. I won't shoot anything that can't be displayed at my church.

If you look on my home page it will give you a better Idea. www.TonyGPhotography.com

Z06Nut · August 28, 2011

I think I might look into the D700. The only draw backs I see is no video. (I can buy an actual video camera if it comes down to it.) and the distance I will be losing with the DX crop. I'll just have to get bigger glass or an extender.

ThatCanonGuy · August 28, 2011

Sounds like the D700 would be great.

ziggy53 · August 28, 2011

Z06Nut wrote: »

I shoot mostly automotive and some portraits, charity events and very few weddings. I won't turn down a client. I'll shoot just about anything a client wants. I won't shoot anything that can't be displayed at my church.

If you look on my home page it will give you a better Idea. www.TonyGPhotography.com

For your applications I can easily recommend a Nikon D700, like the others have already said.

No need to wait unless you want to wait.

thegridrunner · August 28, 2011

Well, even if they release a new D400 or D800 in Sept, you wouldn't be able to get your hands on one until Nov at the earliest. Have you tried out a D7000? Quite an improvement over the D80 (which I've used for 4 years).

angevin1 · August 28, 2011

Z06Nut wrote: »

I'm looking toward the D300s or D700. Knowing that the "D400" may be just around the corner kills me.

Don't let other peoples rumors kill ya. The D400 is a non-existent camera in a real world. And unfortunately that real world includes Natural disasters that do prevent fine historical companies from bringing their latest tech to market. Japan had another earthquake today. It also is an area that sees a lot of seismic activity as a norm. The D700 is a world-class act, and so is it's DX counterparts. If you see where todays tech could aid you, do it today.

Z06Nut · August 30, 2011

Thought about the D7000 but I'm not sure I want to stay in that class. Not doubt the D7000 is WAY more awesome than the D80 but it's no D700 as far as build. I need something that will stand the elements.
D700 it is. My friend has one and offered to sell it to me. I hope he still wants to sell it.

Thank you everyone for your responses. I just wish anyone would reply to my other post about my password problem I'm having. I AM BEGGING FOR SOME HELP ON THIS ISSUE.
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=204756

Ed911 · September 5, 2011

If you are considering buying a D700, or D300 beware of it's service support life. The venerable 5D Mk1 is no longer being supported by Canon with software updates for photo-programs...it was introduced...I think like 6 years ago...and continued to be sold as Canon's flagship mid range until 2008 when the 5DMk2 was released. So, you're looking at Canon stopping support 3 years after it was sold new...SOLD NEW. The D700, and D300 are both three plus years old...how long will Nikon continue to support them. So, I might be tempted to wait a little longer for the new stuff...it will have a longer support life. Digital SLRs do not have the service life of the old film bodies...unfortunately.

In a nutshell, if you own an older camera, you'll find it increasingly hard to find updates to the next release of Photoshop so it will support your camera. If you can't find a work around, you may just have to use older software...which may not work all that well on your new computer...or the one you've been dreaming about buying to speed up your post processing...

I own both the D700 and D300...both are exceptionally good cameras. I prefer the D700 with a 24-70 Nikkor for weddings, and other intimate settings and even landscape/cityscape shots.

So, just a little food for thought.

Z06Nut · September 6, 2011

Thanks Ed. Great food for thought. I don't see myself upgrading my CS5 for some years.

Davidoff · September 6, 2011

Ed, when has that happened to you ? The current Photoshop, LR and every other software you can buy will support current DSLR's and every DSLR ( probably ) ever made.

The only thing that can happen is, in case you're using a much older version of Photoshop, not being able to open files from a new camera. Then, you'd just have to convert them to dng.

Another vote for the D700.

If you don't mind my asking, how did your business grow tenfold in a month ?

Joves · September 6, 2011

Well if you are not in that much of a hurry I would give it a month or two. I dont think the new releases will be until November myself in time for the holiday season. If you are in a hurry then the D700 would be a nice upgrade. But what tells me that there is a new model line up is coming is you cant find a new D700.

ThatCanonGuy · September 6, 2011

Davidoff: I know that Canon stopped making new drivers for older cameras for Windows 7. I don't think my 1DII is supported, the 5Dmk1 may not be either.

Matthew Saville · September 7, 2011

Ed911 wrote: »

If you are considering buying a D700, or D300 beware of it's service support life. The venerable 5D Mk1 is no longer being supported by Canon with software updates for photo-programs...it was introduced...I think like 6 years ago...and continued to be sold as Canon's flagship mid range until 2008 when the 5DMk2 was released. So, you're looking at Canon stopping support 3 years after it was sold new...SOLD NEW. The D700, and D300 are both three plus years old...how long will Nikon continue to support them. So, I might be tempted to wait a little longer for the new stuff...it will have a longer support life. Digital SLRs do not have the service life of the old film bodies...unfortunately.

In a nutshell, if you own an older camera, you'll find it increasingly hard to find updates to the next release of Photoshop so it will support your camera. If you can't find a work around, you may just have to use older software...which may not work all that well on your new computer...or the one you've been dreaming about buying to speed up your post processing...

I own both the D700 and D300...both are exceptionally good cameras. I prefer the D700 with a 24-70 Nikkor for weddings, and other intimate settings and even landscape/cityscape shots.

So, just a little food for thought.

Canon and Nikon are very, VERY different beasts, fortunately. Canon is the brand which changed it's mount between manual focus and autofocus, while Nikon's current mount is fully compatible with lenses made decades and decades ago. Nikon still puts an aperture tab and AIS lens EXIF entering on all of it's semi-pro cameras.

Indeed, eventually they will no longer be able to service certain older bodies and lenses, however I don't think that time will come for the D700 any time soon. Or, even if it does come, third party service will continue nearly indefinitely.

Personally, I'll most likely be buying a 2nd D700 whenever it's replacement comes out, given the significant price drop that always occurs. And I probably won't buy a D800 (or whatever) for 1-2 years after it's release... That's juts how I roll... :-)

=Matt=

MGRPhoto · September 7, 2011

The new (unreleased) Nikon cameras won't affect current prices for at least another 8-12 months. If you're wiling to wait at least that long then do you really even need a new camera? It won't affect prices much anyway. The last few generations of DSLRs haven't really dropped in price when their replacements came out anyway so I don't see any benefit in waiting other than saving money and buying the new generation that is released.

I own a couple D700's and D300s's, as well as a D7000. IMO, I'd go with the D300s if purchasing now. The current prices for the D700 are beyond ridiculous. They cost several hundred less the day it was released than it costs now. When I purchased my D700's on Amazon it was around $1,800. No way would I pay more than that today. If you can find a low mileage used D700 for around $1700-$1800 you might consider picking that up. I wouldn't consider a D7000 for my main body. Buggy new tech that will be replaced soon. I never pick up my D7000 over my D300s.

Mav · September 8, 2011

MGRPhoto wrote: »

I wouldn't consider a D7000 for my main body. Buggy new tech that will be replaced soon. I never pick up my D7000 over my D300s.

That's one of the few negative comments I've heard about the D7000 - care to expand on it?

Matthew Saville · September 8, 2011

MGRPhoto wrote: »

The new (unreleased) Nikon cameras won't affect current prices for at least another 8-12 months. If you're wiling to wait at least that long then do you really even need a new camera? It won't affect prices much anyway. The last few generations of DSLRs haven't really dropped in price when their replacements came out anyway so I don't see any benefit in waiting other than saving money and buying the new generation that is released.

I own a couple D700's and D300s's, as well as a D7000. IMO, I'd go with the D300s if purchasing now. The current prices for the D700 are beyond ridiculous. They cost several hundred less the day it was released than it costs now. When I purchased my D700's on Amazon it was around $1,800. No way would I pay more than that today. If you can find a low mileage used D700 for around $1700-$1800 you might consider picking that up. I wouldn't consider a D7000 for my main body. Buggy new tech that will be replaced soon. I never pick up my D7000 over my D300s.

It is true that the NEW price of older generation gear doesn't drop much when the next generation comes out, but used prices REALLY take a beating.

Also, where do you live? In USD, a new D700 is still cheaper now than it was at MSRP and initial shelf price. ($2999 at release) And yep, I got my D700 used for $1900, less than a year ago.

Lastly, while I agree that the D300s has plenty of merits and reasons to be purchased as opposed to the D7000, I wouldn't go so far as to call it "buggy tech that will be replaced soon". In my experience with the three cameras in question, I would say that the D7000 is entirely capable of tackling ANY job, and is even the PREFERRED camera for some things... (namely where resolution and size / weight are relevant...)

With a grain of salt,
=Matt=

Mav · September 8, 2011

Matthew Saville wrote: »

It is true that the NEW price of older generation gear doesn't drop much when the next generation comes out, but used prices REALLY take a beating.

Also, where do you live? In USD, a new D700 is still cheaper now than it was at MSRP and initial shelf price. ($2999 at release) And yep, I got my D700 used for $1900, less than a year ago.

Lastly, while I agree that the D300s has plenty of merits and reasons to be purchased as opposed to the D7000, I wouldn't go so far as to call it "buggy tech that will be replaced soon". In my experience with the three cameras in question, I would say that the D7000 is entirely capable of tackling ANY job, and is even the PREFERRED camera for some things... (namely where resolution and size / weight are relevant...)

With a grain of salt,
=Matt=

That last point is key for me - I want to be able to take my camera everywhere, including when dirt riding on my motorcycle. The D7000 seems to have plenty capability, enough weatherproofing... and if I do break it in a fall off the bike (which is about as likely with a D700 or D300s), I won't be so out of pocket

lifeinfocus · September 8, 2011

Nikon New Camera will be Mirrorless - HIghly Probable
Since Nikon's new camera to be announced in Sept. will likely be mirrorless, there is no telling when a d400 or d800 will be released.

News today that "With the lack of mirrorless solutions, Canon and Nikon’s combined share in Japan has fallen by 35%, while Sony’s share has doubled." and the recent patent releases etc., a new mirrorless will likely be this September's major release, according to Nikonrumors.com.

While the D400 or D800 were being hyped, nobody knows when they will be announced much less released.

Regarding earthquake affect on Nikon they have moved some of their operations to other countries, so that may have less of an effect than the disaster that fell upon on Japan earlier this year.

I am eager to upgrade to a new model also, but need something now better too.

Phil

MGRPhoto · September 8, 2011

Matthew Saville wrote: »

It is true that the NEW price of older generation gear doesn't drop much when the next generation comes out, but used prices REALLY take a beating.

Also, where do you live? In USD, a new D700 is still cheaper now than it was at MSRP and initial shelf price. ($2999 at release) And yep, I got my D700 used for $1900, less than a year ago.

Lastly, while I agree that the D300s has plenty of merits and reasons to be purchased as opposed to the D7000, I wouldn't go so far as to call it "buggy tech that will be replaced soon". In my experience with the three cameras in question, I would say that the D7000 is entirely capable of tackling ANY job, and is even the PREFERRED camera for some things... (namely where resolution and size / weight are relevant...)

With a grain of salt,
=Matt=

I live in the US. I thought the D700 retailed new for $2699 at release? Either way it's hard to fine them new at all and if you do they are between $2400 and $2700. You can't really find them used for less than $2200 either. Most used are going for $2500 or more. Granted the D700 still doesn't have much competition but IMO definitely not worth that much $$ unless you NEED the ISO performance for business purposes.

The D7000 is certainly a capable camera. Personally I think $1100 will go much further with a used D300s or spend the extra to get a new D300s. It has better weather sealing and a better AF system as well as better AF motor. There are a lot of other features that exist on the D300s that don't exist on the D7000 though they are rarely touched in daily use. D7000 needed a firmware upgrade days after release and still suffers from AF issues and hot pixels. They aren't major issues or even wide spread but the D300s is a solid buy. Just my opinion.

Mav wrote: »

That last point is key for me - I want to be able to take my camera everywhere, including when dirt riding on my motorcycle. The D7000 seems to have plenty capability, enough weatherproofing... and if I do break it in a fall off the bike (which is about as likely with a D700 or D300s), I won't be so out of pocket

The D300s/D700 has a full metal body. The D7000 is mostly plastic with a metal frame. The D300s/D700 has better weather sealing as well.

lifeinfocus wrote: »

Since Nikon's new camera to be announced in Sept. will likely be mirrorless, there is no telling when a d400 or d800 will be released.

News today that "With the lack of mirrorless solutions, Canon and Nikon’s combined share in Japan has fallen by 35%, while Sony’s share has doubled." and the recent patent releases etc., a new mirrorless will likely be this September's major release, according to Nikonrumors.com.

While the D400 or D800 were being hyped, nobody knows when they will be announced much less released.

Regarding earthquake affect on Nikon they have moved some of their operations to other countries, so that may have less of an effect than the disaster that fell upon on Japan earlier this year.

I am eager to upgrade to a new model also, but need something now better too.

Phil

Good points as well. I would say even if a D300 and D700 replacement was announced this month we wouldn't see them on shelves before 2012. Remember the D7000 was announced last September.

zoomer · September 8, 2011

If you are limited by ISO get the D700. For your photography it would be perfect.
Only way it could be improved is to have the D3s sensor and dual card slots.
But really the ISO performance is so good already.

D300s can't touch the ISO performance of the D700. Look at refurbished models if the price point is an issue.

Stuart-M · September 8, 2011

Ed911 wrote: »

If you are considering buying a D700, or D300 beware of it's service support life. The venerable 5D Mk1 is no longer being supported by Canon with software updates for photo-programs...it was introduced...I think like 6 years ago...and continued to be sold as Canon's flagship mid range until 2008 when the 5DMk2 was released. So, you're looking at Canon stopping support 3 years after it was sold new...SOLD NEW. The D700, and D300 are both three plus years old...how long will Nikon continue to support them. So, I might be tempted to wait a little longer for the new stuff...it will have a longer support life. Digital SLRs do not have the service life of the old film bodies...unfortunately.

Are you saying that Canon's software isn't compatible with the 5D? I would be very surprised. Personally I prefer Aperture and that supports the 5D without any hitches. If you just mean that cannon no longer releases firmware updates etc, I don't think that's anything to worry about TBH.

Stuart-M · September 8, 2011

MGRPhoto wrote: »

I own a couple D700's and D300s's, as well as a D7000. IMO, I'd go with the D300s if purchasing now. The current prices for the D700 are beyond ridiculous. They cost several hundred less the day it was released than it costs now. When I purchased my D700's on Amazon it was around $1,800. No way would I pay more than that today. If you can find a low mileage used D700 for around $1700-$1800 you might consider picking that up. I wouldn't consider a D7000 for my main body. Buggy new tech that will be replaced soon. I never pick up my D7000 over my D300s.

$3000 then was a lot more than $3000 now, when you consider where the cameras and components come from. Can say the same for sterling as well of course

ziggy53 · September 8, 2011

lifeinfocus wrote: »

... News today that "With the lack of mirrorless solutions, Canon and Nikon’s combined share in Japan has fallen by 35%, while Sony’s share has doubled." ...

For those who missed it:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-07/canon-clinging-to-mirrors-means-opportunity-for-sony-cameras.html

Ed911 · September 8, 2011

Davidoff wrote: »

Ed, when has that happened to you? The current Photoshop, LR and every other software you can buy will support current DSLR's and every DSLR ( probably ) ever made.

The compatibility issue has been discussed here: http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=186976&highlight=canon+support+issues on this forum. Just read over it and you will understand where I am coming from.

Matthew Saville · September 8, 2011

MGRPhoto wrote: »

I live in the US. I thought the D700 retailed new for $2699 at release? Either way it's hard to fine them new at all and if you do they are between $2400 and $2700. You can't really find them used for less than $2200 either. Most used are going for $2500 or more. Granted the D700 still doesn't have much competition but IMO definitely not worth that much $$ unless you NEED the ISO performance for business purposes.

Yeah, that was the 5D mk2 that debuted at $2700 new, the D700 was $3000 new. Admittedly though, the D700 price did drop down to about $2700 within 6-12 months of it's release, and it has hovered around there ever since. I think it might have gotten down to $2400 or $2500 new at one point. So, admittedly, the D700 hasn't depreciated very much. But in my opinion, that is simply because it is such a dang good camera, with such slim competition for it's intended purposes. (All-around high-performance camera)

I can totally get on board with the preferred recommendation of a D7000 or D300s, if the type of photography to be done is better suited for those cameras. The D300s is one of the best telephoto sports / wildlife cameras on the market today, for sure. And the D7000 is certainly one of the best "go-light" outdoor adventure / landscape cameras...

=Matt=

Stuart-M · September 8, 2011

Matthew Saville wrote: »

Yeah, that was the 5D mk2 that debuted at $2700 new, the D700 was $3000 new. Admittedly though, the D700 price did drop down to about $2700 within 6-12 months of it's release, and it has hovered around there ever since. I think it might have gotten down to $2400 or $2500 new at one point. So, admittedly, the D700 hasn't depreciated very much. But in my opinion, that is simply because it is such a dang good camera, with such slim competition for it's intended purposes. (All-around high-performance camera)

=Matt=

You need to stop thinking in $ and start thinking in Yen, just look how the $ has fallen:

Yen/Dollar

The price in $ would have fallen if the currency had been stable. The bad news is that assuming Nikon/Canon don't find some huge cost savings, the price of the next versions of these cameras may well start at $4k+ when they are released.

It's the same story in the UK as our currency has devalued as well.

ThatCanonGuy · September 8, 2011

Stuart-M wrote: »

You need to stop thinking in $ and start thinking in Yen, just look how the $ has fallen:

Yen/Dollar

The price in $ would have fallen if the currency had been stable. The bad news is that assuming Nikon/Canon don't find some huge cost savings, the price of the next versions of these cameras may well start at $4k+ when they are released.

It's the same story in the UK as our currency has devalued as well.

No, I don't think they'll start at $4K.

Canon and Nikon make their price points at increments. The lower-end DSLRs (Rebels, Dx000, 60D) are about 30% different in price. For example, if you want to upgrade from a T3i to a 60D, or from a D5100 to a D7000, the new camera costs about 30% more than the old one. Once you get higher up, i.e. 5D2 D700 D3s etc., you pay about 70% more for each step up. A D3s costs about 70% more than a D700, for example.

If they make a $4K DSLR, it will upset this table, and it'll leave a huge gap in the lineup. Sales would also suffer, because many people won't think it's worth $4K, and some will just pay the extra $1K and get the 1D4.

They very well may have to raise the price, perhaps above $3K. But they can't go too far.

Ed911 · September 8, 2011

Stuart-M wrote: »

Are you saying that Canon's software isn't compatible with the 5D? I would be very surprised. Personally I prefer Aperture and that supports the 5D without any hitches. If you just mean that cannon no longer releases firmware updates etc, I don't think that's anything to worry about TBH.

Not saying that...refer to my previous post. And, firmware updates...shouldn't be a problem after a camera has been on the market for six years. The Nikon D700 has only been out for a little over three years...and there won't be any more firmware updates...and haven't been for a while...I'm sure they could tweak a few things, if they wanted to...but for Nikon...like Canon and the rest...resources are to be optimized...at some point...it's move on time.

I don't want to make too much out of this...as you must have read...I was delivering a cautionary.
statement. Beware, you might be buying into obsolescence.

I hope this helps clarify my viewpoint.

Should I wait?

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