What's your 2nd body? Full Frame Or Not?

rhommel · September 14, 2011

As the title says, what's your 2nd body? Full Frame or not?

I've been shooting full frame (5DII) and I've never shot with a 2nd body (as I am pretty fast changing lenses

) and never really thought about getting a 2nd one, even as a back up. Until now anyway... I can't decide whether to get another 5DII or get a 7D (or any cropped dslr) instead. I figured I can attach my long lens on a 7D and 24-70 (my workhorse) on my 5DII

what do you guys think.

Sam · September 14, 2011

rhommel wrote: »

As the title says, what's your 2nd body? Full Frame or not?

I've been shooting full frame (5DII) and I've never shot with a 2nd body (as I am pretty fast changing lenses ) and never really thought about getting a 2nd one, even as a back up. Until now anyway... I can't decide whether to get another 5DII or get a 7D (or any cropped dslr) instead. I figured I can attach my long lens on a 7D and 24-70 (my workhorse) on my 5DII

what do you guys think.

First, if your shooting professionally you MUST have back up equipment. You can't go on a shoot with only one body.

Now as to your choice for a second body, if you are only shooting weddings, events, people, landscapes, I think the best choice would be another 5D II. If your looking for a camera body with better AF, faster frame rate, better weather sealing and more suitable for sports, wildlife, I would get the 7D.

I have both the 5D II and the 7D for sports, and back up. It's capable of shooting a wedding on it's own, so I have some added capability and good solid backup.

Sam

Moogle Pepper · September 14, 2011

I use my 1D3 as my backup to my 5D2, although I am thinking about offloading the 1D3 to get another FF... hopefully a 1Ds3.

Since, I am actually good to go with my gear right now, I am in no rush for that little change.

tenoverthenose · September 14, 2011

Unless you have a reason to go with the 7d, I would keep the cameras the same. Easier to use images interchangeably from two different cameras, same focal lengths, same ergonomics, etc.

marikris · September 14, 2011

I have a 5dc as back up to my 5d2.
I'm thinking about getting another 5d2. Love the tones of my 5dc, though. And it's more than adequate for a wedding, but it really will help to have the same camera as my main.

Matthew Saville · September 15, 2011

Say what? You don't have a backup? And you charge money for your services? For shame, doc! Dude, I've had my main (and 2nd) camera bodies completely fail on me at least twice, mid-ceremony and during other critical wedding moments. You may think the chances of camera failure are slim, but they're not. And either way it's just not a risk that a professional should be taking.

To actually answer your question, yeah if you're just a 1-body shooter during weddings, then a crop-sensor backup is "okay". Sure, it's not optimal, but it gets the job done. It's not the end of the world if your pictures are a little extra grainy. However it's VERY convenient to have two of the same exact cameras. I would consider it the professionally responsible thing to do. I get away with using a Nikon D700 and a Nikon D300, because the camera bodies are TRULY identical aside from one being full-frame and the other not. Every button, control, and customization is the same. I'm still gonna buy a 2nd D700 as soon as I can, though. Probably some time before the next wedding season starts.

On the other hand, the 7D brings a lot to the table that the 5D mk2 lacks. Namely, accuracy and speed. I just don't trust the 5-series bodies to focus in low light. But more on that later. Suffice it to say that if the 5D mk2 were my main camera, I can see how a 7D might actually be the best choice for a 2nd body. Especially if you shoot any type of action sports in your spare time, when you're not shooting weddings.

So, there you have it. It's not the end of the world if your backup is a different camera, or a crop sensor camera... But it's the professional thing to do, in the long run, if you're aspiring to do this full-time etc. some day. Heck if I were a Canon user, I would aspire to have the 5D mk2 be the backup, and get a used 1Ds mk3 as my main camera. Personally, I don't trust the 5-series focus system AT ALL to deliver consistent results at shallow-apertures in extremely low light.

=Matt=

rhommel · September 15, 2011

Matthew Saville wrote: »

Say what? You don't have a backup? And you charge money for your services? For shame, doc! Dude, I've had my main (and 2nd) camera bodies completely fail on me at least twice, mid-ceremony and during other critical wedding moments. You may think the chances of camera failure are slim, but they're not. And either way it's just not a risk that a professional should be taking.
=Matt=

that's why I shoot Canon, I know it won't crap out on me! lol! anyway... before this becomes a 'gear war'.....

I know that I SHOULD have a backup camera. But hey, 50+ weddings shooting without a backup, I guess, you can call me lucky

That's why I am trying to get a backup now (for 2012 season), because my 5D2 already has some good mileage on it. I know it can still go for another 50+ weddings, but not taking any chances in 2012...

Moogle Pepper · September 15, 2011

rhommel wrote: »

that's why I shoot Canon, I know it won't crap out on me! lol! anyway... before this becomes a 'gear war'.....

I know that I SHOULD have a backup camera. But hey, 50+ weddings shooting without a backup, I guess, you can call me lucky

That's why I am trying to get a backup now (for 2012 season), because my 5D2 already has some good mileage on it. I know it can still go for another 50+ weddings, but not taking any chances in 2012...

Living dangerously I see.

Sam · September 15, 2011

rhommel wrote: »

that's why I shoot Canon, I know it won't crap out on me! lol! anyway... before this becomes a 'gear war'.....

I know that I SHOULD have a backup camera. But hey, 50+ weddings shooting without a backup, I guess, you can call me lucky

That's why I am trying to get a backup now (for 2012 season), because my 5D2 already has some good mileage on it. I know it can still go for another 50+ weddings, but not taking any chances in 2012...

I'm sorry i really need to comment here.......................I wouldn't call you lucky.......I would call you irresponsible. based on your original post I got the impression you only shot a few weddings maybe here and there, but if you a full time 50 + weddings (even part time actually) wedding photographer, promoting yourself as a professional wedding photographer you must have back up equipment (bodies, lenses, flash, batteries, memory cards, and insurance, and a network of fellow photographers you can call in an emergency to cover the wedding in case your hit by a truck).

Think about it.............you have a great responsibility to capture a one time event. They can't redo it. They have spent a lot of money and time on their wedding.

Showing up at the wedding and saying oops! my battery went dead or my camera broke so sorry.....by...................is not acceptable!

I don't care if your charging $500.00 or $50,000.00 the emotions and responsibilities are the same.

Your comments lead me to believe that you view this as your risk. If it were only you taking the risk I would not be posting this. You are not the one who will suffer the real consequences. Your clients are taking the risk and don't even know it.

After 50+ wedding I am sure you a much better wedding photographer than I and many others here on Digital Grin, but you are way behind the 8 ball on the business end.

I will close with the good news. If you want to get your business side up to your photography experience level there are a lot of people here who will freely offer their thoughts and share their experiences.

Sam

rhommel · September 15, 2011

While I enjoy your post Sam, and appreciate your concern, I think you are getting a bit OFF topic now. My question is whether I should get a FULL FRAME or CROPPED dslr as a 2nd/backup camera.

nicoleshilliday · September 15, 2011

rhommel wrote: »

While I enjoy your post Sam, and appreciate your concern, I think you are getting a bit OFF topic now. My question is whether I should get a FULL FRAME or CROPPED dslr as a 2nd/backup camera.

I use one full frame camera and another cropped....to answer you question.

zoomer · September 15, 2011

I have two operational full frame bodies on me at all times, d3 d700. Don't really use them like backups but guess they are if one went down. I use them both about equally.
As Ten said two identical bodies would be ideal. My daughter second shoots for me using a d300.

For true backup...get the best you can afford. You may not need it but if you do your customers deserve the best you can give them. Crop sensor is fine for your true backup.

codyjbennett · September 15, 2011

Rhommel, I currently shoot weddings with a D3 (FX) and have a D300 (DX) as a backup (or to be used by a second shooter.) Part of my reason for retaining the D300 is because if something goes awry with my primary gear, I can fall back to the D300 with an 18-200 and still have plenty of range to get the shots I need.

I think if funds were no matter, I would opt for another D3 and duplicate high-end lenses. Actually, I would like to buy the top-of-the-line D3x as a primary body and let my D3 be the backup...

So, as it's been stated by zoomer and others, "get the best you can afford."

Matthew Saville · September 15, 2011

rhommel wrote: »

While I enjoy your post Sam, and appreciate your concern, I think you are getting a bit OFF topic now. My question is whether I should get a FULL FRAME or CROPPED dslr as a 2nd/backup camera.

I think the point we are both trying to make is that your question itself is what is "off the mark" here, as far as importance with relation to shooting professionally is concerned. Our answer to your main question is simple and quick: It doesn't matter, just get SOMETHING, and get it asap. The bottom line is that it doesn't matter, not NEARLY as much as simply having backup gear, period.

I just can't stress this enough. BTW I'm not just a Nikon shooter, I've shot plenty of weddings on Canon gear and it fails just as often, if not moreso. I've shot a handful of weddings on the 5D mk2, and I definitely wouldn't trust one camera alone!

If you've shot 50+ weddings so far, then my guess is either you're shooting part-time in which case the money you made should have been MORE than enough to fund a 2nd DLSR body a LONG time ago, OR, you're shooting full-time and, while I understand the financial burden of paying your bills with photography, shooting weddings full-time with a single (advanced amateur) DSLR deserves even more scolding than anything else. Or, either way, you could pay a small amount to have a 2nd shooter present, which counts as a backup camera so to speak. Even borrowing a friend's rebel would be better than nothing.

So, again, the answer to your question- Get something, anything, and get it soon.

Sorry if this sounds like we're piling on and blowing things way out of proportion. It's just that we (or at least some of us) are in fact full-time professionals and we've seen real failure in the real world. And we bust our asses to make sure that we have backup equipment, and 2nd shooters. It is just not something we take lightly, especially if we are calling ourselves pro and accepting $$ for our services.

So while I know we're probably not gaining any new friends here with our attitudes, I do hope that you'll sense the gravity of the situation.

=Matt=

rhommel · September 15, 2011

Matthew Saville wrote: »

So while I know we're probably not gaining any new friends here with our attitudes, I do hope that you'll sense the gravity of the situation.

=Matt=

I don't understand why you guys have to SCOLD me for not having a 2nd body in my bag when the whole point of me starting this thread is because I WANT to get a 2nd body!!

rhommel · September 15, 2011

anyway guys, thanks for the replies.

I will probably get another 5D2 as it's pretty cheap right now ($2199CDN)

JimKarczewski · September 15, 2011

5DII, 5D Backup, 20D Backup's Backup.

I'm considering selling the 5D & 20D and replace it with a 7D for sports. Not sure yet.. Maybe the 5D3 will come out soon, so I can do that... then the 5D2 will become backup and the others will be sold off.

David_S85 · September 15, 2011

Two, or more.

Not a wedding shooter, not a pro. I usually bring two cams with me for anything I deem important. The 'ol 20D keeps on marching as a second - and a 40D is still my main cam. Using both keeps lens changes minimal or unnecessary. And if one fails, then I wouldn't have wasted the travel and time invested.

Matthew Saville · September 15, 2011

rhommel wrote: »

I don't understand why you guys have to SCOLD me for not having a 2nd body in my bag when the whole point of me starting this thread is because I WANT to get a 2nd body!!

I would have been okay with a mild scolding, but then you went and mentioned that you've shot 50+ weddings with a single camera. So, I think you just kinda walked into the firestorm on that one. ;-)

(For the record, when I shot my very first weddings professionally, I shot the first 2-3 with just a film SLR as my backup, and then by the 3rd or 4th wedding I went and bought a used Nikon D70 for $450 or so. This was back in the day,

!)

We're definitely glad that you're getting a 2nd camera. That's really all that matters. Hopefully our harshness can also encourage others to realize the importance of backup etc., too.

=Matt=

Sam · September 15, 2011

rhommel wrote: »

anyway guys, thanks for the replies.
I will probably get another 5D2 as it's pretty cheap right now ($2199CDN)

To clarify, I wouldn't have said boo until, you posted:

Originally Posted by rhommel

that's why I shoot Canon, I know it won't crap out on me! lol! anyway... before this becomes a 'gear war'.....

I know that I SHOULD have a backup camera. But hey, 50+ weddings shooting without a backup, I guess, you can call me lucky

That's why I am trying to get a backup now (for 2012 season), because my 5D2 already has some good mileage on it. I know it can still go for another 50+ weddings, but not taking any chances in 2012...
__________________________________________________________________________________

It sounds so cavalier, and no I don't call you lucky, I call your unsuspecting clients lucky.

Again, it ain't you who is taking the chance.

So yes good that your getting back up, and yes I am glad none of your clients suffered. I was / am hoping you understand just how lucky your clients were. If I had for what ever reason done 50 weddings without back up I would be getting treatment for post traumatic stress now.
Oh and I answered your question right away with only the comment that you need backup gear. No scolding.

We don't need to have a degree, be licensed or approved by any overseeing authority to declare ourselves professional Photographers. We can however try to establish some standards for quality and business practices that will help us and our clients.

As much as I and Matt may have jumped on you, we as well as most at Digital Grin will also do our best to help you.

Sam

Art Scott · September 15, 2011

rhommel wrote: »

As the title says, what's your 2nd body? Full Frame or not?

I've been shooting full frame (5DII) and I've never shot with a 2nd body (as I am pretty fast changing lenses ) and never really thought about getting a 2nd one, even as a back up. Until now anyway... I can't decide whether to get another 5DII or get a 7D (or any cropped dslr) instead. I figured I can attach my long lens on a 7D and 24-70 (my workhorse) on my 5DII

what do you guys think.

This is just my opinion and that is all......I started out shooting with only 1 body and 1 lens and I did this for a couple or 3 or 4 years......never had a problem until 1 day the camera malfunctioned and I was almost screwed, but luckil.y I had a friend that shoot with the same make of camera as I did and he ran it out to me........cost me a bunch of images that I missed and had to give partial refund even tho I was able to restage all the missed shots and I do not care how good you are they still look staged.......

So a 2nd camera is actually a must....for me it is so I do not have to change lenses, I do not want to futse around with that when I should be clicking off images.........

So my opinion is pretty simple main camera and 2nd body need to be same make and model....that is keeping everything simple as possible one loaded with a 24-70f2.8 and 1 with a 70-200f2.8......in my bag you will find 4 cameras........2 -Nikon D300's and 1 Nikon F70 (film camera + 5 rolls of film) and 1 Konica Minolta A2 (prosumer PS with 28-200 lens that has resolution out the wazoo.......
my shooting scenario would be like this .....if a D300 dies then go to the Konica Minolta A2 if A2 or D300 dies go to F70 film camera.......When I move up from the D300's it will be 2 (maybe 3) exact same full frame cameras......sometimes if it is an out of town wedding I have an old Ricoh Flex 120 film cam in my car also with 5-10 rolls of film.......

After experiencing 1 cam malfunction over 30yrs ago, I know that even a brand new camera can stop working for no reason.....

DWS · September 16, 2011

FX for 1st & 2nd (D3s & D700), DX (D300) as 3rd

Blurmore · September 16, 2011

7D/40D/30D the 30D is the backup of last resort, I don't mount a lens to it unless either of my main bodies goes down. Full frame? Yeah when they make a 24-70 f2.8 IS otherwise...you can keep it.

Bakko · September 17, 2011

I shoot with the 5DMKII as my main and I have my trusty 60D on my back.
My set up is pretty simple, and it gets the job done.
On the 5D i have my 24-70mm f/2.8(with the 580 EX II) and on my 60D I have my awesome 10-22mm(with the 430 EX II).
I'm a huge fan of ultra wide angle lenses and my clients love the awesome shots that come out of the 10-22mm.
I really should look into a longer lens (like the 135mm) but thats for when i have more money

I actually dont see the point of having 2 full frame bodies, seeing that you have a much bigger choice in EF-S lenses esp when it comes to wide angle.

Ed911 · September 17, 2011

For me FX-D700, and DX-D300. Wait a couple of months. I think both Nikon and Canon owners will be surprised by the new technology they have in store for us in their new bodies.

Let's face it...the 5D2 uses focus technology that dates to August 2005 when the 5D was announced. It's sub par for a camera with a sensor as nice as the 5D2 has.

Remember, if all works out like it has in the past...the new prosumer models will be better than the current pro models. I think we're going to see some really neat stuff from the big two.

I want to get a second job...lol...

Just think about renting until you see what's coming out.

Just my two cents...

Shima · September 18, 2011

My backup and primary camera's are the same, two 5D Mk II's. I want my images to look consistent and as a mostly prime lens photographer (I only really whip out the zooms for the wedding ceremony) the rest of the time I'm shooting primes with two different focal lengths on. I want my clients to not be able to tell the difference and therefore I like having identical cameras for my backup. When I first started though I couldn't afford two full frame bodies though, so back in the day (2007) when I began, I used a 40D and 30D.

At the end of the day though I'll agree with everyone here, it doesn't really matter what you get, it just matters that you get something. I've thankfully never had a camera break in my 40 (almost 50) weddings I've shot so far... but I have had a lens stop functioning. Luck or no luck, you have to have yourself covered and if you're the person your clients have paid to cover their wedding, there is no excuse to have a risk as big as not having a backup. (Along the same note, make sure you've got lens focal lengths backed up too... one of the main reasons I kept my zooms when I started the move to primes a few years ago is that the zooms are my backups to my primes)

Stuart-M · September 18, 2011

I would rather go to a wedding with 2 40Ds than a single 1DS, Backup is essential.

If it's purely for backup, something like a 550D and kit lens is very sensible, as it's lightweight and compact, the 550D has a good sensor and the kit lens, although a little slow, has IS and it reliable. If you dropped the 5DII and main lens down a well, you would be able to do everything with the 550D, just not quite as easily, but you could do it. That's what a backup is for.

If you intend to use it as a second camera though, a 5D or 5DII would be a better choice, but you'll need a backup lens as well.

holzphoto · September 18, 2011

hi, i use 1ds iii, 1d iv, 1d iv, 1d iii, 60d, 60d

my team mixes it up.

fri wedding i shot w/ 1d iv and kept 60d as backup. 2nd shooter used 1d iii.

saturday wedding shot 1d iii w/ 1ds iii as backup, 2nd shooter used 1d iv.

smurfy · September 20, 2011

I hate brand arguments, so hadn't even opened this thread. But I'm shocked. You must be putting us all on. Everyone whose shot 50 plus weddings has had at least one disaster with camera failure, it's a given. You are long overdue for a disaster, and need a backup before your next wedding.

rhommel · September 21, 2011

smurfy wrote: »

I hate brand arguments, so hadn't even opened this thread. But I'm shocked. You must be putting us all on. Everyone whose shot 50 plus weddings has had at least one disaster with camera failure, it's a given. You are long overdue for a disaster, and need a backup before your next wedding.

again. WE ALL AGREE that I need a backup. NOBODY is contesting that I don't need one. you telling me that I need a back up is a bit redundant.

ME: I bought a car, and been driving without insurance. I called to get a quote on insurance please.
INSURANCE GUY: OHHHHHH NOOOOOOO!!! YOU DEFINITELY NEED INSURANCE!!
ME: that's why I called you, so you can help me get insurance!
INSURANCE GUY: What if you hit someone while driving and you don't have insurance? What if you get hurt really bad and you don't have insurance?
ME: I understand that, so would you help me get a quote?
INSURANCE GUY: I don't believe you don't have insurance, cant be! I can't imagine people driving without insurance!
ME: HELLO!!! THAT'S WHY I CALLED!!! TO GET INSURANCE!!!
INSURANCE GUY: you are long overdue for a disaster and need insurance before you drive again!

ME: ARGHHHHH.

Foques · September 22, 2011

^
With this attitude, I think you got to start shopping for sense of humour and maturity first..
It blows my mind how people like you ask a question, and then get all their panties in a bunch because they don't like the answers.

bright example from a forum I moderate:
"I raced a civic on the street the other day, and he got me by half a car.. What is the best RPM to shift at?"

What's your 2nd body? Full Frame Or Not?

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