Night Football - I am NOT freezing action w/ flash

KrawDaddy

Two flash setup

MDalby wrote: »

One of the things I was pretty pleased with was the lack of shadows in the face from the helmet/face mask. The DGrin design for monopod/flash worked very good in that respect.

Here are some shots of my monopod setup. It is a little different than the typical DGrin solution.

How is that two flash setup built? Looks like something I could use in some poorly lit stadiums. Thanks in advance.

MDalby

KrawDaddy wrote: »

How is that two flash setup built? Looks like something I could use in some poorly lit stadiums. Thanks in advance.

It is essentially the same as this DGrin setup. Except, I didn't want to have the stress on the strobe mount by having it hung upside down so I have a bracket.

http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/3737879

MD

kuzzy

MDalby wrote: »

It is essentially the same as this DGrin setup. Except, I didn't want to have the stress on the strobe mount by having it hung upside down so I have a bracket.

http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/3737879

MD

For what its worth Mark, I much prefer the shots without the flash, but I am not a big fan of the look of flash shots in general. With your equipment you certainly do not need the flash to get the shots you want. Just make sure that you do not underexpose and noise should not be much of a problem.

drode

The secret to using flash is to pick one of two methods.

First is normal (1/250) sync.

I do not recommend manual flash. The reason is that the distance from flash to player(s) varies constantly. Unless they are at the exact distance, the flash will always be too much or too little. iTTL will adjust the power dynamically. The more important thing to do is to set the camera to underexpose the ambient light by at least 2 stops. I often get 1/250, f/4 and ISO 640-800 at high school fields. This will allow the light from the flash to be primary and freeze the action.

The other option is to use high speed sync, Nikon's version is called Auto-FP. In this case, you underexpose the ambient by 1/3 - 1 stop, use a higher ISO and a high shutter speed. HSS doesn't freeze action well, so you will have to use a fast shutter speed to prevent motion blur "ghosting". I've found that 1/640 is the minimum but 1/800-1/1000 is better.

The flash is this case is essentially fill flash. When the ambient meters f/2.8/ ISO 5000, 1/500 shutter, I can shoot f/2.8, ISO 3200, 1/640 shutter and get cleaner images with stopped action and still have a good blend of the ambient light. I prefer this look over the full flash look.

Hope it helps.

MDalby wrote: »

Thanks guys,

1/250 is the max SS that I can use with strobes. I think the best place to start is with the dog gone ambient. I have to get my ambient right and then shoot at least a couple stops below ambient so the flash freezes it.

I REALLY want to use my TC. I just want to get closer shots and I can't afford a 300mm lens.

I am going to try to find a night game here that I can practice at before my next key game.

Thanks for the suggestions guys!

MD

Zerodog

Here is what I like for flash outside in full light or under the stadium lights. I do not shoot FB so this might be bogus for you.
I set my exposure like I have no flash to start with. I like smoother backgrounds not black ones. Yes this requires higher ISO. But I think the results are better overall, especially with the right camera.
Use high speed sync and rear curtain sync
Use iTTL
Control the "flash" look with dialing up or down the compensation on the flash.

I think you have a little bit of overflashed look going on with these. But I think you are for sure on the right track. Try iTTL and use your compensation. Really cool setup on the monopod looks good.

MDalby

Dan and Zerodog,

I am going to try the high speed sync tomorrow night. I will share the results. Thank you fro the input.

MD

MDalby

OK, I gave HSS a try last night. There were some pros and cons:

Positive:
- SS with HSS was able to pretty much freeze the action and eliminate blur.
- I was able to get more shots off.

Negative:
- The noise was considerably more than full flash.
- There were more helmet shadows than with the full flash.

Shot #1 (A little shadow in the helmet here)



Shot #2 (Some very noticeable blur here but this may be the photographer on this one. The flash was able to eliminate helmet shadow on this one.)



Shot #3 (The flash was able to eliminate helmet shadow on this one)



Shot #4 (Pretty good on the helmet shadow on this one too)



Shot #5



Shot #6

jonh68

I think these are your best set. I like how they don't looked flash and just having a little bit of shadow under the helmet doesn't bother me any and actually prefer over the flat flashed look. Number 2 is more OOF than not freezing action. I would toss it compared to the other shots.

Zerodog

These are your best yet. The shadow in 1 is about perfect. It looks pretty natural. What iso were you at? The backgrounds are blended nicely. And again, natural looking.

MDalby

I think I agree. I like the look on these settings.

Here are my settings

ISO: 4000
f/2.8
SS: 1/1000
Rear Sync
HSS
Auto-FP
TTL and I had my flash compensation set at +1

Kikoprice

How fast did your flash recover using HSS?

MDalby

Kikoprice wrote: »

How fast did your flash recover using HSS?

Well, I have a different setup so I am not sure if my results will reflect what others get. I have a two flash setup but I was shooting in 2, 3, 4 shot bursts with no problem at all.

Kikoprice

Thanks for the reply. I was trying to get a feel for your double flash verses a single flash with a pixel power pack. Your recharge rate is much faster then mine. Im still playing with it but last Friday night was too busy to experiment, I had to shoot 2 games.

MDalby

I use an external battery pack. I don't know if that speeds up the recharge rate or not. Here are some shots of what I am using.




My friend made some dummy AA cell batteries out of aluminum.






We installed the connector from the Walmart charger in the 5th battery holder.

Kikoprice

Does the M stand for McGyver?

I use a Pixel battery pack with Powerex 2700 Mah AA's and 4 more in the Flash.

Here is a HSS shot from the first game Friday.

ISO3200, SS1000, F2.8,



Second game, different field

ISO800, SS250, F3.5, 1st curtain sync



Next shot I think the focus missed, but you can see the paint chips in the air from the hit




I'm still seeing motion blur in parts of the pictures, mostly feet and hands. Lights cycling? just plain motion blur, or ghosting ? That drives me nuts....

MDalby

Frank,

Your first shot looks good. I see the same problems that I was having in your last 2 shots. When I used the HSS I no longer had those issues.

Kikoprice

How did you sync the 2 flashes?

MDalby

I used SB-800 flashes that have the SU-4 wireless mode. I used a TTL cable to the master and then set the second as a remote with SU-4.

Kikoprice

Here are my shots from last night. I like the HSS. I had my son Nate shoot next to me for a few downs so we could compare shots. Nate is shooting a 50D 70-200 2.8 no flash and Im shooting a 7D 70-200 2.8 with a 580 exII

Nates Shot
iso6400 ss640 f2.8



My shot
iso 4000 ss1000 f2.8



Nates shot
iso 6400 ss640 f2.8



My shot
iso 4000 ss1000 f2.8

adbsgicom

Your shots make a good argument for HSS...