Not really, not based on the number of early adopters who got burned on the HP DreamColor (I had the chance and turned it down despite a fraction of the cost). See the ColorSync user list, August of this year (Colorimeters and third-party developer support (Tom Lianza)):
Other posts warning of the product follow.
Stick with NEC SpectraView or Eizo.
The laptop I edit on is a HP Pavilion dv8000. Has never had a calibration device on its display, though I have tweaked the software using a variety of tools from the internet. Images in Ps on this display look exactly the same as they do on the Eizo of the guy who does my printing (who also does printing for the faculty at the university School of Art and is the local Eizo rep). My prints from his huge Epson roll off just as I expected.
Does’t matter which looks righter, Photoshop is right in terms of handling this process as its ICC aware.
One possibility is the image is tagged incorrectly. It could be sRGB tagged as something other than sRGB and Photoshop would make it look awful. That’s why I need to see the document and the color settings.
Another possibility is the profile is hosed.
I would have expected the op has selected the Huey profile already. As you point out, the desktop is blind to that, so why is it the only right one?
I would have expected the op has selected the Huey profile already. As you point out, the desktop is blind to that, so why is it the only right one?
Right in terms of Photoshop using the full ICC path. Something is wrong, we don’t know what yet. But we can ignore the non ICC path (desktop) even if it looks better. Its not right either although at this point preferable. Non ICC aware applications have no idea what the scale of the RGB numbers are (it might assume sRGB but that’s still not an accurate process). It has no idea about the display conditions or profile. Only ICC aware applications do this correctly. In this case, something is wrong and the previews look awful. But that needs to be fixed. Until we see the document and what’s embedded, examine the Photoshop color settings and maybe the profile, its not possible to figure where the issue resides. Once fixed, Photoshop and other ICC aware applications preview the numbers correctly.
Right in terms of Photoshop using the full ICC path. Something is wrong, we don’t know what yet. But we can ignore the non ICC path (desktop) even if it looks better. Its not right either although at this point preferable. Non ICC aware applications have no idea what the scale of the RGB numbers are (it might assume sRGB but that’s still not an accurate process). It has no idea about the display conditions or profile. Only ICC aware applications do this correctly. In this case, something is wrong and the previews look awful. But that needs to be fixed. Until we see the document and what’s embedded, examine the Photoshop color settings and maybe the profile, its not possible to figure where the issue resides. Once fixed, Photoshop and other ICC aware applications preview the numbers correctly.
The software creating the desktop, which uses colour, must have some RGB colour reference values. Seems to me those references would likely be the current standard sRGB gammut.
I think what surprises the op is that having invested in the Huey, and followed the required procedure, the calibration is making Ps images look weird. I think there must be answers " why?" at this level, without going into the further analysis of individual files. In other words, answers at the system level.
What an image looks like on screen in Ps is determined by the colour space of the display, and its gamma, colour temperature, black and white points. The ICC profile can change the pixel RGB values, but that's only part of the story.
I posted some info and links in one of my posts above which try to help at the system level to get a colorimeter ICC profiled Ps to show files properly on a Vista screen. Do they help?
The software creating the desktop, which uses colour, must have some RGB colour reference values.
Non ICC aware applications simply send the RGB values to the display. This is how Photoshop 4 and earlier operated. There is no knowledge of the document color space (scale of the numbes) nor the display conditions (profile).
Seems to me those references would likely be the current standard sRGB gammut.
Such app’s have no idea what sRGB is! What color is R234/B65/B78 if you have no idea if those numbers are in sRGB, ProPhoto, Epson 2880 Luster etc? Numbers without a scale (a color space) are ambiguous and do not describe a color appearance.
I think what surprises the op is that having invested in the Huey, and followed the required procedure, the calibration is making Ps images look weird. I think there must be answers " why?" at this level, without going into the further analysis of individual files. In other words, answers at the system level.
Nope. You could have say a ProPhoto RGB document without a profile, or an sRGB document with ProPhoto RGB embedded and Photoshop would preview the data incorrectly. That’s why we need to see the document. It could be the Photoshop color settings stripping the profile (OFF policy), so we need to see those settings. It could be a hosed display profile so we need to see that.
What non ICC aware applications show is totally immaterial to solving how ICC aware applications need to be ‘fixed’ to operate correctly.
Its like saying a fellow who only understands French is trying to solve an equation when a only German speaking mathematician enters the room. Not useful. Non ICC aware applications tell us nothing about the issue here with the ICC aware application.
What an image looks like on screen in Ps is determined by the colour space of the display, and its gamma, colour temperature, black and white points.
And that’s what the display profile defines and describes. So we need to see that profile (or the OP needs to build another one perhaps with a different calibration target, or ensure its being detected by the OS and Photoshop*). Non ICC aware applications have no idea about any of this.
The ICC profile can change the pixel RGB values, but that's only part of the story.
No, not unless someone used a convert to profile or similar process. If you assign a profile to a document, the color appearance changes but the numbers do not. There is no change to the pixel RGB values!
*to check in Photoshop, go into the Color Settings. Select the RGB working space popup and view the profiles listed at the top of this list. There will be “Monitor:XXX” where XXX is the name of the profile Photoshop is using. Is it the correct profile? On Windows, might not be. On Mac, its automatically accesses at the system level (that OS IS color managed).
There will be “Monitor:XXX” where XXX is the name of the profile Photoshop is using. Is it the correct profile? On Windows, might not be. On Mac, its automatically accesses at the system level (that OS IS color managed).
"Apple's Mac operating systems have provided OS-level color management since 1993, through ColorSync.
Since 1997 color management in Windows is handled at the OS level through an ICC color management system. Beginning with Windows Vista, Microsoft introduced a new color architecture known as Windows Color System.[5] WCS supplements the Image Color Management (ICM) system in Windows 2000 and Windows XP, originally written by Heidelberg.[6][7]
Operating systems which use the X Window System for graphics use ICC profiles, and support for color management on Linux, still less mature than on other platforms, is coordinated through OpenICC at freedesktop.org and makes use of LittleCMS.
[edit] Application level
As of 2005, most web browsers ignored color profiles.[8] Notable exceptions were Safari, starting with version 2.0, and Firefox starting with version 3. Although disabled by default in Firefox 3.0, users can enable ICC v2 and ICC v4 color management by using an add-on[9] or setting a configuration option.[10] Starting from Firefox 3.5 color management is enabled by default only for tagged images, although support is limited to ICC v2 profiles owing to a change in color management systems from 3.0.[11] Firefox 8.0 has partial ICC v4 profiles support. Internet Explorer 9 is the first Microsoft browser to partly support ICC profiles, but it does not render images correctly according to the Windows ICC settings (it only converts non-sRGB images to the sRGB profile) and therefore provides no real color management at all. As of 2011, Google Chrome does not support color management by default."
It seems from the above, and other references, that colour management is happening to some extent in Windows OSs.
There's no problem, I think, about the concept of "ICC aware" vs "non-ICC aware", that horse has been well beaten and is probably close to death. But math is independent of any tongue, so the French and German guys in your scenario could get along just fine together with that equation! Math is "device independent". And with a French-German dictionary they could also talk about the weather! Therefore it gets us further here, I think, to talk about device dependent and device independent profiles, with some kind of translating help between them.
For computer OSs, and for peripherals eg displays, the equivalent to math is sRGB (device independent profile), and the equivalent to the dictionary are the LUTs (which are used to translate between device dependent profiles).
It might be that the profile the Huey produced for the op's display is aligning it to sRGB, but that Ps is not accessing those LUTs.
(In Ps Edit > Color Settings) If you look just above the four common Working Spaces you should also find options for Monitor RGB, and in the case of Mac systems ColorSync RGB. Monitor RGB is the color space of your monitor as created by your calibration utility or hardware calibration device. Generally, it isn't a good idea to use the monitor profile as your Working Space, but it's important that it does appear in the list.
It's often claimed that Photoshop has no obvious way of informing the user which monitor profile is actually being used. Well, a quick check for Monitor RGB in the RGB Working Space pop-up should be enough to put your mind at rest. If Monitor RGB is showing something other than the profile you created when calibrating the monitor it is essential that you investigate the reason and make the appropriate corrections.
The actual list of options available for selection as Working Spaces differs according to whether More Options is activate, or not. If you chose to activate More Options then the list of available RGB profiles will be quite extensive.
I found this link to be the first thing informative to possibly fix all of the settings that I may have screwed up.
To the OP... go to www.pantone.com and download the latest driver. I found that when I first experience color differences on my Huey... downloading version 1.0.5 for my Huey fixed the problem.
Now, I have a new problem, but similar. I'm running Windows XP with Photoshop CS3 on an Apple Cinema Display 23" A1082.
I did some basic brightening up of images before uploading to SmugMug and viewing through Firefox. The images on SmugMug look fine on a laptop... but not my main computer set-up. The thumbnails look pretty much the same from one another but the medium sized images tend to shift color. That is something that is blue looks more like purple.
I think I have the Photoshop Color Settings correct now for when I open up a new image. Sure, it might be nice to know whether I should choose something different for the Gray workingspace or whether to choose ProPhoto instead of sRGB for the RGB working space... but I'm satisfied I have it good for now.
If one goes to View>Proof Setup... what should be used? Macintosh RGB, Windows RGB, Monitor RGB or custom? If custom, am i using the profile for the SmugMug lab, Apple RGB, ProPhoto RGB, sRGB IEC61966-2.1, one of the ones that says Huey D65 G2.2 A28.43 (or something similar), or something else? Am I preserving the RGB numbers?
After choosing the proof setup, should proof colors be checked or unchecked at or View>Proof Colors?
I think somewhere, somehow with these two things... is the way to soft-proof for whatever lab we choose to have our photos printed at, but are we supposed to have it set to our labs ICC profile all the time?
I've also noticed that the image I am trying to fix for viewing on SmugMug also looks different in Photoshop when I mess around with the various settings under View>Proof Setup and View>Colors. So far it appears that the image stays the same in the little Navigator window but whatever changes I make, things I check or uncheck, determines whether the image I would actually work on either matches the smaller one in the navigator window or not.
Overall, I could care less what it looks like in thumbnails and PS navigator windows but people purchase what they see in the medium sized images on SmugMug and I make adjustments to the image based on what I see in the main Photoshop window.
Someone please help. The blue in the image could be a nice vivid blue, a dark and muddy blue, slightly purple, hideous purple and horribly wrong purple. The first two are the only ones that are acceptable.
Comments
The laptop I edit on is a HP Pavilion dv8000. Has never had a calibration device on its display, though I have tweaked the software using a variety of tools from the internet. Images in Ps on this display look exactly the same as they do on the Eizo of the guy who does my printing (who also does printing for the faculty at the university School of Art and is the local Eizo rep). My prints from his huge Epson roll off just as I expected.
Neil
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
I would have expected the op has selected the Huey profile already. As you point out, the desktop is blind to that, so why is it the only right one?
Neil
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
Right in terms of Photoshop using the full ICC path. Something is wrong, we don’t know what yet. But we can ignore the non ICC path (desktop) even if it looks better. Its not right either although at this point preferable. Non ICC aware applications have no idea what the scale of the RGB numbers are (it might assume sRGB but that’s still not an accurate process). It has no idea about the display conditions or profile. Only ICC aware applications do this correctly. In this case, something is wrong and the previews look awful. But that needs to be fixed. Until we see the document and what’s embedded, examine the Photoshop color settings and maybe the profile, its not possible to figure where the issue resides. Once fixed, Photoshop and other ICC aware applications preview the numbers correctly.
Author "Color Management for Photographers"
http://www.digitaldog.net/
The software creating the desktop, which uses colour, must have some RGB colour reference values. Seems to me those references would likely be the current standard sRGB gammut.
I think what surprises the op is that having invested in the Huey, and followed the required procedure, the calibration is making Ps images look weird. I think there must be answers " why?" at this level, without going into the further analysis of individual files. In other words, answers at the system level.
What an image looks like on screen in Ps is determined by the colour space of the display, and its gamma, colour temperature, black and white points. The ICC profile can change the pixel RGB values, but that's only part of the story.
I posted some info and links in one of my posts above which try to help at the system level to get a colorimeter ICC profiled Ps to show files properly on a Vista screen. Do they help?
Neil
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
Non ICC aware applications simply send the RGB values to the display. This is how Photoshop 4 and earlier operated. There is no knowledge of the document color space (scale of the numbes) nor the display conditions (profile).
Such app’s have no idea what sRGB is! What color is R234/B65/B78 if you have no idea if those numbers are in sRGB, ProPhoto, Epson 2880 Luster etc? Numbers without a scale (a color space) are ambiguous and do not describe a color appearance.
Nope. You could have say a ProPhoto RGB document without a profile, or an sRGB document with ProPhoto RGB embedded and Photoshop would preview the data incorrectly. That’s why we need to see the document. It could be the Photoshop color settings stripping the profile (OFF policy), so we need to see those settings. It could be a hosed display profile so we need to see that.
What non ICC aware applications show is totally immaterial to solving how ICC aware applications need to be ‘fixed’ to operate correctly.
Its like saying a fellow who only understands French is trying to solve an equation when a only German speaking mathematician enters the room. Not useful. Non ICC aware applications tell us nothing about the issue here with the ICC aware application.
And that’s what the display profile defines and describes. So we need to see that profile (or the OP needs to build another one perhaps with a different calibration target, or ensure its being detected by the OS and Photoshop*). Non ICC aware applications have no idea about any of this.
No, not unless someone used a convert to profile or similar process. If you assign a profile to a document, the color appearance changes but the numbers do not. There is no change to the pixel RGB values!
*to check in Photoshop, go into the Color Settings. Select the RGB working space popup and view the profiles listed at the top of this list. There will be “Monitor:XXX” where XXX is the name of the profile Photoshop is using. Is it the correct profile? On Windows, might not be. On Mac, its automatically accesses at the system level (that OS IS color managed).
Author "Color Management for Photographers"
http://www.digitaldog.net/
"Apple's Mac operating systems have provided OS-level color management since 1993, through ColorSync.
Since 1997 color management in Windows is handled at the OS level through an ICC color management system. Beginning with Windows Vista, Microsoft introduced a new color architecture known as Windows Color System.[5] WCS supplements the Image Color Management (ICM) system in Windows 2000 and Windows XP, originally written by Heidelberg.[6][7]
Operating systems which use the X Window System for graphics use ICC profiles, and support for color management on Linux, still less mature than on other platforms, is coordinated through OpenICC at freedesktop.org and makes use of LittleCMS.
[edit] Application level
As of 2005, most web browsers ignored color profiles.[8] Notable exceptions were Safari, starting with version 2.0, and Firefox starting with version 3. Although disabled by default in Firefox 3.0, users can enable ICC v2 and ICC v4 color management by using an add-on[9] or setting a configuration option.[10] Starting from Firefox 3.5 color management is enabled by default only for tagged images, although support is limited to ICC v2 profiles owing to a change in color management systems from 3.0.[11] Firefox 8.0 has partial ICC v4 profiles support. Internet Explorer 9 is the first Microsoft browser to partly support ICC profiles, but it does not render images correctly according to the Windows ICC settings (it only converts non-sRGB images to the sRGB profile) and therefore provides no real color management at all. As of 2011, Google Chrome does not support color management by default."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_management
It seems from the above, and other references, that colour management is happening to some extent in Windows OSs.
There's no problem, I think, about the concept of "ICC aware" vs "non-ICC aware", that horse has been well beaten and is probably close to death. But math is independent of any tongue, so the French and German guys in your scenario could get along just fine together with that equation! Math is "device independent". And with a French-German dictionary they could also talk about the weather! Therefore it gets us further here, I think, to talk about device dependent and device independent profiles, with some kind of translating help between them.
For computer OSs, and for peripherals eg displays, the equivalent to math is sRGB (device independent profile), and the equivalent to the dictionary are the LUTs (which are used to translate between device dependent profiles).
It might be that the profile the Huey produced for the op's display is aligning it to sRGB, but that Ps is not accessing those LUTs.
Neil
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
Edit this. You got me thinking of army marching chants now.
I found this link to be the first thing informative to possibly fix all of the settings that I may have screwed up.
To the OP... go to www.pantone.com and download the latest driver. I found that when I first experience color differences on my Huey... downloading version 1.0.5 for my Huey fixed the problem.
Now, I have a new problem, but similar. I'm running Windows XP with Photoshop CS3 on an Apple Cinema Display 23" A1082.
I did some basic brightening up of images before uploading to SmugMug and viewing through Firefox. The images on SmugMug look fine on a laptop... but not my main computer set-up. The thumbnails look pretty much the same from one another but the medium sized images tend to shift color. That is something that is blue looks more like purple.
I think I have the Photoshop Color Settings correct now for when I open up a new image. Sure, it might be nice to know whether I should choose something different for the Gray workingspace or whether to choose ProPhoto instead of sRGB for the RGB working space... but I'm satisfied I have it good for now.
If one goes to View>Proof Setup... what should be used? Macintosh RGB, Windows RGB, Monitor RGB or custom? If custom, am i using the profile for the SmugMug lab, Apple RGB, ProPhoto RGB, sRGB IEC61966-2.1, one of the ones that says Huey D65 G2.2 A28.43 (or something similar), or something else? Am I preserving the RGB numbers?
After choosing the proof setup, should proof colors be checked or unchecked at or View>Proof Colors?
I think somewhere, somehow with these two things... is the way to soft-proof for whatever lab we choose to have our photos printed at, but are we supposed to have it set to our labs ICC profile all the time?
I've also noticed that the image I am trying to fix for viewing on SmugMug also looks different in Photoshop when I mess around with the various settings under View>Proof Setup and View>Colors. So far it appears that the image stays the same in the little Navigator window but whatever changes I make, things I check or uncheck, determines whether the image I would actually work on either matches the smaller one in the navigator window or not.
Overall, I could care less what it looks like in thumbnails and PS navigator windows but people purchase what they see in the medium sized images on SmugMug and I make adjustments to the image based on what I see in the main Photoshop window.
Someone please help. The blue in the image could be a nice vivid blue, a dark and muddy blue, slightly purple, hideous purple and horribly wrong purple. The first two are the only ones that are acceptable.