5DIII rumor - 18mp
jmphotocraft
Registered Users Posts: 2,987 Major grins
http://www.canonrumors.com/2011/11/5d-mark-iii-information-cr1/
Am I the only one who thinks that if the 5DIII gets the 1DX sensor and the 7D AF or better, and 8-10fps that it will be the perfect camera?
My 5DII is already awesome, and 18mp is all the resolution I will ever need. I also have a 7D and 18mp is not significantly less than 21mp. If the 1DX chip is really 2 stops better, I'll be in heaven.
Am I the only one who thinks that if the 5DIII gets the 1DX sensor and the 7D AF or better, and 8-10fps that it will be the perfect camera?
My 5DII is already awesome, and 18mp is all the resolution I will ever need. I also have a 7D and 18mp is not significantly less than 21mp. If the 1DX chip is really 2 stops better, I'll be in heaven.
-Jack
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
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It would please me to no end to get a smaller sensor though FX in the 5Dmk2 follow up. But I am just not sold on Canon doing that. What any real ( broke) person like myself would like is 60fps., and a sensor closer to the 1080 video size so down-sampling isn't as dramatic as it has been. oh, and while I'm at it, I also want full scan, not every other line. ...You may say I'm a dreamer...but I'm not the only one~
I believe that in order to make cropping and down-sampling to 1920x1080 less "dramatic", the sensor width would need to be an integer multiple of 1920 pixels, right?
So, a sensor that is say 1920 x 3 = 5760 pixels wide in 3:2 shape would be 5760x3840, or 22mp. I don't see that happening. And a sensor that is 1920 x 2 = 3840 pixels wide would be less than 10mp.
But this is a tangent, I really just want to see who else is excited about the 1DX sensor, because there is a ton of whining and complaining going on at "that other" site I read. People are acting like suddenly 18mp is sub-standard resolution just because the Nikon D800 is rumored to be 36mp.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Yep, I say, forget the exact "megapixel-math" involved in achieving the best video quality, and just give us the 1DX sensor in an affordable body.
I think it's POSSIBLE, if Canon is having a change of heart these days, for them to even throw in the 45-point autofocus from the "old" flagships. True, Canon whined about it taking up too much space back when they were trying to rationalize their continued use of the old 9-point AF, ...but then again the EOS 1V and EOS 3 both had 45-point AF, and neither of THOSE (film) bodies required permanent vertical battery grips!
Neither does the Nikon D700. So I just don't buy it. Canon has the perfect opportunity, to make a "5DX", or a 6D, or a 3D, or whatever. Give it 18 MP with the insane (alleged) ISO performance of the 1DX, give it 5-6 FPS, give it 45-point AF, ...and you've got a camera that every Canon-shooting wedding photographer would buy TWO of... (...And some Nikon shooters, too!)
My fear is not that we won't ever see an affordable version of the 1DX sensor. I think that is inevitable. My fear is that they'll dumb down the rest of the functions, and make it their "entry level FF" body, with more 60D / 7D (or even rebel) features and limited functions, ...and then they'll make their "semi-pro" camera the 30+ megapixel one. Or, it is likely that they will simply leave out 45 point AF, and maybe either leave it at 9-point, or simply upgrade it to the 7D AF module. That's not the end of the world, but it just bugs me to think that the camera could be SO much better if they would just take a queue from Nikon, break down and toss in their flagship AF.
Especially with the rumored split of the Nikon lineup coming; since BOTH cameras will probably have near-flagship features. (Nikon is probably making a "mega-MP" 36 megapixel body, and of course the other body being an affordable version of whatever the D4 is, probably a similar 18 megapixels) I just don't see how Canon can compete with that, among still photographers at least, UNLESS they step it up in the autofocus and overall performance with the future of the 5-series lineup...
=Matt=
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Well first of all, let me just say that yeah, a 36 megapixel FX sensor from Nikon WILL happen, sooner or later, but there is NO WAY we won't also see an 18 megapixel D4, and eventually an affordable version of that camera. That is what gives me hope, even in the face of these ludicrous 36 MP D800 rumors.
But anyways- What I NEED in a new DSLR, in order for me to NOT just keep buying D700's every couple years, for the work I do. (Weddings and portraits)
1.) AF.
* From Canon, I expect some sort of semi-pro 5DX with, at the very least, the 7D's AF module, but preferably Canon's 45 point AF module.
* From Nikon, I'd LIKE to see an improvement on the current 51 point system, preferably with cross-type AF points spread out more around the edges of the point cluster, however this is not critical for me to upgrade.
2.) ISO / Megapixels.
I don't know what the truth is about pixel density and ISO performance, but let's just keep it simple and ASSUME that fewer megapixel makes it EASIER to achieve better high ISO performance. (Or, if that's not good enough for you, just remember that as a Nikon shooter, I have no sRAW format yet!) Bottom line- I don't need more than 16-18 megapixels, but I DO NEED as good or better ISO performance compared to the Nikon D3s. I mean otherwise, I'll just go buy a used D3s...
3.) Dual card slots.
Nikon has set more of a precedent here, but I'm sure Canon could do it as well. As a wedding photographer who is concerned about redundancy, I'd love to have dual card slots. (Again, if this feature doesn't show up in the next generation, I'd rather just buy a used D3s)
4.) Frame rate: 5-6 FPS is all I need.
5.) One-click image playback zooming:
This is kind of a weird request, but I can't live without it now. Basically, I've programed the "set" button on all my Nikons to zoom in to medium magnification during image review. I really hope Canon takes a hint, and makes quick image zooming easier. It's possible on the 1-series flagships, so why not the 5-series?
6.) Unobtrusive video.
Not that I need video, I just mean that if they're going to add video to the camera, it MUST be unobtrusive. I say this because the current leaks of D800 photos show a couple significant changes that could really mess up my ability to shoot still photos in a professional, high-pressure environment.
Anyways, that's about it. If I'm forgetting something, I'll mention it later...
=Matt=
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?
Canon has had dual card slots (CF/SD) in their 1D and 1Ds bodies since 2004. Now the Canon 1D X has dual CF card support. Nikon started using dual slots with the D3 (I think) in 2007.
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An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Kinda interesting.... Eye-fi has been saying that CF will be dead soon, in favor of SD. Now Canon puts out their flagship with dual-CF....
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When Canon came out with the 60D that had an SD slot and Eye-Fi compatibility (kind of), it did make me wonder ...
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True, but what I meant was that Nikon has set a precedent for putting dual card slots in the more affordable camera bodies, (D300s, D7000) ...while Canon has ALWAYS been stubborn when it comes to the "trickle-down" of putting professional functions into affordable bodies.
Meaning, I think we're more likely to see dual card slots in the D700 replacement than the 5D mk2 replacement, although I'm hoping for both.
=Matt=
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Pros have always been stubborn and superstitious, though. I think there is a stigma around SD, it is seen as the consumer grade memory, less robust, and lower capacity / speed. Of course none of that may be true, but when two separate companies start using dual CF in their flagships, I'm betting that is a good indicator that the camera companies have listened to pros around the world.
Personally, I also dislike SD cards. The smaller size makes them easier to drop / lose, and harder to eject.
But, I'm certainly not opposed to ANY memory system, as long as it is redundant. I've tested the Dual-SD D7000, and it's not that bad lol...
=Matt=
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The part that is painful for me to sit and listen to is, when some Canon users get so brainwashed by the marketing that they actually argue "Canon would never put the flagship 45 point AF in a 5-series for under $3000, it would cannibalize 1-series sales..." All I can say is, well, I guess Nikon didn't get that memo? ;-)
I think that is probably the main reason why I stick with Nikon. They have a far better history of "trickle-down" features, and extra functions that Canon would rather charge you an extra few bucks for. (Nikon's built-in intervalometer is one great example, it's 100% software and yet Canon insists on selling you a $140 remote.)
However, as much as I rag on Canon, the signs I've been seeing lately do indicate that they're changing their ways. Especially if Canon's next affordable DSLR is 18 MP with near-flagship performance, and if Nikon's next affordable DSLR is 36 MP with a focus on video function. If that happens, I'll be hiding in the corner for a generation or two
=Matt=
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Precisely. As soon as you hear some ignoramus using that logic, just walk away.
Well, to be fair, unless you are big into primes or a wedding photographer like yourself, for whom the D700 is a godsend, Nikon has been frustrating its other users for years. My buddy shoots a D300 with the good f/2.8 zooms. He's had nothing significant to upgrade to since he got the camera in 2007. Yeah the D7000 is sort of an upgrade, but he's not making money with his camera and he doesn't shoot video, so he doesn't bother. Also he's waiting for a FF with an upgrade in resolution. Although 36mp doesn't appeal to him because he does not print 6 feet wide, and who knows what the medium-res setting on the D800 will be.
I agree. If the 1DX sensor trickles down into a 5D-level body with real AF (7D or 45pt), it will be a blockbuster.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Roak
<== Mighty Murphy, the wonder Bouv!
Uh, I'd rather have an intervalometer, hands down. Tethered? Who the hell has time to shoot tethered?
I shoot tethered all the time, for work, and it pays well. ;-)
To be fair, that is nice that Canon offers a free tethering program. However I'm sure there are plenty of other options out there for Nikon users, (I use LR3) ...whereas you can't just buy a third-party app to ADD a built-in intervalometer to your DSLR. (Although admittedly, there are remotes cheaper than the $140 Canon remote, I think a Canon user is only about $30-40 away from doing time lapses...)
=Matt=
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I'm not sure exactly what you mean by frustrating it's "other" users. Are you talking about the D200-D300 crows that is waiting for a DX D400? Are you talking about the lack of new pro-grade DX lenses?
I can get on board with that, mostly. Nikon has indeed neglected certain DX users. However, just for reference, I paid LESS for my used D700 in late 2010, than I paid for my new D300 in 2007. If you ask me, that kinda takes the whole argument down a notch. It was just a personal goal of mine, to pay less for a full-frame DSLR than the equivalent crop-sensor DSLR. But I did it, and now I'm working on finding some deals on f/2.8 FX glass.
I guess the other thing that hasn't "trickled down" yet is an affordable version of the D3X. I totally expected to see a D700s and D700X, I think that would have been a really great move for Nikon to make a $2999 D700s with the D3s sensor, great video and dual card slots, then a $3999 D700X with the D3X sensor, and the same improvements.
But I guess Nikon had other things to focus on since 2009, and we're going to jump straight to the D4 and whatever 36 megapixel behemoth is coming. All in all, I think 99% of Nikon users will be VERY happy within 12-24 months.
=Matt=
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Yes. Or the D200-D300 crowd who are waiting for a FF camera with an upgrade in resolution.
D700 doesn't appeal to my D300 friend because it's a lateral move, mp-wise. The low light capabilities of the D700 aren't of enough value to him to accept that.
Exactly.
36mp wouldn't excite me. I'd just use it in a medium-res mode 99% of the time. Now, an 18mp FF lord of darkness camera does excite me.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
ME TOO!!!!
I suppose what I want is a 5dII with 7d (or near it) AF and a built-in flash commander. At the right price point, you will then have the perfect affordable hi ISO portrait camera under the sun. If they can bump the ISO another stop or so, all the better, but one certainly can't complain about the 5dII on that score even now.
Bring that in for under $3K initial price, and I'd be selling everything short of my firstborn and my body to get my hands on one
Don't say that!! 5DIII needs *at least* 7D AF! Canon might be reading! (lol, right)
And yes on the flash commander.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
EXACTLY. Nikon offers 51pt AF on their $2500, Full-Frame cameras.. WTH can't Canon? Gimme a break already. And also, give me some voice annotation feature on ANY body other than a 1D... There is a Mic on the camera... Let me use it for something other than video??????
Why this isn't built-in to Canon cameras is beyond me... they are so dumb for this.
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Be careful what you wish for. Of the 51 AF points on the D700, only 15 of those are cross type sensors and those are concentrated at the center. The rest are linear AF points and only sensitive to phase changes in a single direction.
By contrast the Canon 7D has 19 points and they are all cross type and spread across the sensor.
The Canon 1D MKIV has 45 AF points and 39 of those are cross type.
I would not hate to have the Nikon AF systems, but they are not necessarily an improvement over the Canon systems.
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Personally I would like to have a scaled down version of the 1DX AF system in the 5D3, and why not the 7D2 as well. It's apparently got better low light performance than previous systems, so the same system with fewer AF points would be very nice.
I can definitely agree on this more subtle point that most people overlook. As a Nikon user, this is my one major gripe about the current Nikon AF system. Sure, it's amazing in low light when you stick to the cross-type points. But the Canon 45 point system still has a MUCH better arrangement of cross-type sensors. Especially on the 1.3x crop sensor, man the 45 point system is PERFECT.
I definitely would like to simply see them put the (now "OLD") 45 point AF system in the 5D mk3, or 5DX. I think that before they were refusing to do so because they were afraid it would cannibalize 1Ds mk3 sales, which is why certain markets fell head over heels for the Nikon D700 in the first place. But now that the 1DX has a new AF system, I'm betting that Canon feels comfortable putting the "old" AF system into an affordable body.
As I mentioned, I bet that instead of completely re-designing the new 1DX's AF system, they'll probably just toss the old 45 point AF system in the 5D mk2 replacement, and then just upgrade the 7D's AF in a generation or two. (The Canon XXD series had an almost identical AF system from the 20D all the way to the 50D and 60D, if I am not mistaken. So don't expect the 7-series AF to be changed in a revolutionary way any time soon.)
Disclaimer- I call it the "old" system, but trust me the Canon 45 point AF is AWESOME and I'd love to see it in a 5DX. If Nikon totally loses their marbles and gives us a 36 megapixel D800 WITHOUT any AF upgrade, I just might buy a 5DX if it also has the 1DX sensor. Seriously. Also, the 7D's AF doesn't need much improvement either. It's killer! It's good enough even for birding, contrary to what some people say. At least, that's what I hear from SOME. I've used the 7D a lot but haven't used it for much more than general action shooting.
Anyways, like I said 2012 and 2013 are going to be exciting years for both Nikon and Canon...
=Matt=
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The Canon 20D/30D share a very similar, if not the same, AF system. Then the 40D/50D/60D share a newer system.
The difference is:
40D/50D/60D: 9-point, all cross type, center point is high-precision with f2.8 effective aperture lenses.
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I know, but my point is that it took them five generations to make a single major physical improvement. Thus, the probability that the 7D AF isn't going to be dramatically improved upon with the 7D mk2 or 8D or whatever...
=Matt=
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