The part that is painful for me to sit and listen to is, when some Canon users get so brainwashed by Canon's marketing department that they actually argue "Canon would never put the flagship 45 point AF in a 5-series for under $3000, it would cannibalize 1-series sales..." All I can say is, well, I guess Nikon didn't get that memo before they made the D700? ;-)
The feasibility of 45-point AF in an affordable FF body is easy to imagine- Release the 1DX, wait 9-12 months, then announce a 5DX. It worked for Nikon, it could work for Canon too if users would just stop rolling over and accepting "impossibilities"... Even if Canon decided they had to charge $4K for the body, I still bet it would sell like crazy... Toss in an on-demand 1.3x crop mode and 8-10 FPS with a battery grip, (again, a-la-Nikon) ...and you've got a KILLER camera that would make Canon rich...
Just one thing: isn't 18mp on the small, crop sensor about the same as 21 on FF, and therefore... wouldn't 18mp on a FF sensor be a more significant reduction? I'm not bothered about it, just trying to understand the math (at least a little bit. Me+numbers= :oogle + :bash)
Just one thing: isn't 18mp on the small, crop sensor about the same as 21 on FF, and therefore... wouldn't 18mp on a FF sensor be a more significant reduction? I'm not bothered about it, just trying to understand the math (at least a little bit. Me+numbers= :oogle + :bash)
A FF camera with the same pixel density of an 18mp APS-C camera would be 18 x 1.6 x 1.6 = 46mp.
No wonder the 5DII is at least a stop better than the 7D, eh?
-Jack
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
i read somewhere that Canon might be consolidating the 1-series at the high end and moving the 5Dx into the middle price range, around $3500, then bringing out a new model, FF, 16-18Mp, but optimized for high-ISO performance, for around $2000. if they did that, i'd be all over it like white on rice!
~ Rocky
"Out where the rivers like to run, I stand alone, and take back something worth remembering..."
Three Dog Night
Canon 1Dx will come this spring and be awesome as we're expecting / hoping. It will be used and adored by low-light shooters, birders, sports people, and other pros who want fast AF, great high ISO performance, pro body, awesome video, and overall amazing image quality.
Canon 5D II will be refreshed, call it what you want: 5DIII, 5Dx, it'll have the same Digic processor as the 1Dx, it will likely have the same type of AF that the 7D has now. I'm expecting them to keep the same megapixel count. This camera has been around for three years! http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=112581 I have no doubt there will be a refresh/upgrade soon, very soon. And the 5D2 is selling at $2K new now....
Canon 1Dx will come this spring and be awesome as we're expecting / hoping. It will be used and adored by low-light shooters, birders, sports people, and other pros who want fast AF, great high ISO performance, pro body, awesome video, and overall amazing image quality.
I agree except for the birders who will whine about not enough reach.
Canon 5D II will be refreshed, call it what you want: 5DIII, 5Dx, it'll have the same Digic processor as the 1Dx, it will likely have the same type of AF that the 7D has now. I'm expecting them to keep the same megapixel count.
Man... I hope not. I really hope the 5DIII will get the 1DX sensor. If it's just the same 21mp sensor, it will be pretty insulting. It's a great sensor, but come on, it's over 3 years old.
-Jack
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Dude, are you just pulling my leg? You sound a little brainwashed...
What is that supposed to mean? Is Andy brainwashed too then? But your wishlist sure looks nice, not very realistic but nice.
“To consult the rules of composition before making a picture is a little like consulting the law of gravitation before going for a walk.”
― Edward Weston
What is that supposed to mean? Is Andy brainwashed too then? But your wishlist sure looks nice, not very realistic but nice.
For one thing it means you seem to be making excuses for Canon that don't have much basis in reality. Nikon can do exactly what you say Canon can't - put top-shelf features in lower bodies - so I'm not sure why anyone believes Canon can't do it.
-Jack
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
For one thing it means you seem to be making excuses for Canon that don't have much basis in reality. Nikon can do exactly what you say Canon can't - put top-shelf features in lower bodies - so I'm not sure why anyone believes Canon can't do it.
I have no interest in defending Canon. I am just seeing what they did
in the past and guessing what they will do in the future if they continue
what they were doing. They have been very conservative in the past
while Nikon was more proactive by introducing some killer Features
in their lower than high-end bodies. Sure Canon could do it. But I
doubt that they have any interest in doing it. We can have a discussion
about that, but not about me presumably taking position for a Company.
I am not and I never intended to do so.
“To consult the rules of composition before making a picture is a little like consulting the law of gravitation before going for a walk.”
― Edward Weston
I have no interest in defending Canon. I am just seeing what they did
in the past and guessing what they will do in the future if they continue
what they were doing. They have been very conservative in the past...
People said the same thing before the 5DII came out - that Canon would never put the 1Ds sensor in a 5D body.
And as a former 1DIIN owner, I can tell you the 7D is surprisingly close to that level of AF. Canon seemed to finally take the gloves off with the 7D, and take on the D300 directly. The next 5D should address the issue that the D700 has the 51pt AF.
-Jack
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
0
Matthew SavilleRegistered Users, Retired ModPosts: 3,352Major grins
I have no interest in defending Canon. I am just seeing what they did
in the past and guessing what they will do in the future if they continue
what they were doing. They have been very conservative in the past
while Nikon was more proactive by introducing some killer Features
in their lower than high-end bodies. Sure Canon could do it. But I
doubt that they have any interest in doing it. We can have a discussion
about that, but not about me presumably taking position for a Company.
I am not and I never intended to do so.
Oh, I totally agree with the history-based probability that Canon will stick to their status quo of tactfully leaving certain cameras crippled because of the strangle-hold their sales and marketing department has on their engineering / design department. I'm just HOPING (and also, based on the signs) ...that Canon is ready to break their mold, and create an incredible camera just for the sake of creating an incredible camera.
I'm just saying, it's kinda brainwashed of people to accept that. The Nikon business philosophy isn't perfect either, nor are their cameras, but what I do like is that they always seem to have a slightly more common habit of shocking people with the features they release at certain price points.
Well, if this is anywhere near true.. Canon can kiss my a$$
Agreed, anything less than the 7D AF would be a slap in the face. I could tolerate less fps, but AF, no. I wouldn't switch systems, but I'd definitely be sitting this generation out.
Edit, I suppose if the 5DIII has the same 18mp 1DX sensor, I'd have to take a serious look at it, regardless of AF. Anything would have to be an improvement over the current 1-point AF.
-Jack
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
0
Matthew SavilleRegistered Users, Retired ModPosts: 3,352Major grins
The same insane rumor about megapixels is circulating in the Nikon camp as well. Canon's new high-res sensor will probably be 32-34, and we already know that Sony is working on a 36 MP sensor which Nikon will probably adopt.
And of course, these cameras will be aimed at studio, portrait, and landscape photographers. NOT wedding photojournalists and the "casual but serious" crowd, the crowd who couldn't care less about megapixels but who NEED (or just like) to have as much performance as possible in other areas. Sorry, but this is not your camera. This is a megapixel war camera. A medium format shooter "bait" camera. It's inevitable, given the semi-success of the $8K D3X and 1Ds mk3. (And considering the relatively GOOD per-pixel quality of the 7D at lower ISO's...)
My hope is that Canon and Nikon will BOTH still have "affordable versions of their flagship sensor" on the market within 12 months of the release of that sensor.
So, even if Canon and Nikon announce something totally "stupid" early this year, with minimal improvements in the areas we want the MOST improvement, ...don't worry just yet because I'm hoping we'll see some MUCH better cameras come to market, as soon as Canon and Nikon have had their fun selling a fair amount of $5-7K flagships...
Even if Canon remains completely stubborn and never MSRP's a new FF body below $3K, you can at least take heart that a used 1Ds mk3 is getting WAY down there by now; my friend picked one up for under $3K when the economy was causing people to fire-sale stuff. And also, I'm sure that within 1-2 years of the 1DX announcement, you'll be able to find them used for $4K or so. Which is probably what a new 5DX would cost anyways, given the current terrible exchange rate and inflation...
Comments
The feasibility of 45-point AF in an affordable FF body is easy to imagine- Release the 1DX, wait 9-12 months, then announce a 5DX. It worked for Nikon, it could work for Canon too if users would just stop rolling over and accepting "impossibilities"... Even if Canon decided they had to charge $4K for the body, I still bet it would sell like crazy... Toss in an on-demand 1.3x crop mode and 8-10 FPS with a battery grip, (again, a-la-Nikon) ...and you've got a KILLER camera that would make Canon rich...
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A FF camera with the same pixel density of an 18mp APS-C camera would be 18 x 1.6 x 1.6 = 46mp.
No wonder the 5DII is at least a stop better than the 7D, eh?
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
"Out where the rivers like to run, I stand alone, and take back something worth remembering..."
Three Dog Night
www.northwestnaturalimagery.com
Canon 1Dx will come this spring and be awesome as we're expecting / hoping. It will be used and adored by low-light shooters, birders, sports people, and other pros who want fast AF, great high ISO performance, pro body, awesome video, and overall amazing image quality.
Canon 5D II will be refreshed, call it what you want: 5DIII, 5Dx, it'll have the same Digic processor as the 1Dx, it will likely have the same type of AF that the 7D has now. I'm expecting them to keep the same megapixel count. This camera has been around for three years! http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=112581 I have no doubt there will be a refresh/upgrade soon, very soon. And the 5D2 is selling at $2K new now....
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I agree except for the birders who will whine about not enough reach.
Man... I hope not. I really hope the 5DIII will get the 1DX sensor. If it's just the same 21mp sensor, it will be pretty insulting. It's a great sensor, but come on, it's over 3 years old.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
What is that supposed to mean? Is Andy brainwashed too then? But your wishlist sure looks nice, not very realistic but nice.
― Edward Weston
For one thing it means you seem to be making excuses for Canon that don't have much basis in reality. Nikon can do exactly what you say Canon can't - put top-shelf features in lower bodies - so I'm not sure why anyone believes Canon can't do it.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
I have no interest in defending Canon. I am just seeing what they did
in the past and guessing what they will do in the future if they continue
what they were doing. They have been very conservative in the past
while Nikon was more proactive by introducing some killer Features
in their lower than high-end bodies. Sure Canon could do it. But I
doubt that they have any interest in doing it. We can have a discussion
about that, but not about me presumably taking position for a Company.
I am not and I never intended to do so.
― Edward Weston
People said the same thing before the 5DII came out - that Canon would never put the 1Ds sensor in a 5D body.
And as a former 1DIIN owner, I can tell you the 7D is surprisingly close to that level of AF. Canon seemed to finally take the gloves off with the 7D, and take on the D300 directly. The next 5D should address the issue that the D700 has the 51pt AF.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Oh, I totally agree with the history-based probability that Canon will stick to their status quo of tactfully leaving certain cameras crippled because of the strangle-hold their sales and marketing department has on their engineering / design department. I'm just HOPING (and also, based on the signs) ...that Canon is ready to break their mold, and create an incredible camera just for the sake of creating an incredible camera.
I'm just saying, it's kinda brainwashed of people to accept that. The Nikon business philosophy isn't perfect either, nor are their cameras, but what I do like is that they always seem to have a slightly more common habit of shocking people with the features they release at certain price points.
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
http://www.canonrumors.com/2011/12/a-bit-about-the-5d-mark-iii-cr1/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+canonrumors%2Frss+%28Canon+Rumors%29&utm_content=FaceBook
Lower than 7D AF? Seriously? WTF!!
Agreed, anything less than the 7D AF would be a slap in the face. I could tolerate less fps, but AF, no. I wouldn't switch systems, but I'd definitely be sitting this generation out.
Edit, I suppose if the 5DIII has the same 18mp 1DX sensor, I'd have to take a serious look at it, regardless of AF. Anything would have to be an improvement over the current 1-point AF.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Don't panic just yet, though!
The same insane rumor about megapixels is circulating in the Nikon camp as well. Canon's new high-res sensor will probably be 32-34, and we already know that Sony is working on a 36 MP sensor which Nikon will probably adopt.
And of course, these cameras will be aimed at studio, portrait, and landscape photographers. NOT wedding photojournalists and the "casual but serious" crowd, the crowd who couldn't care less about megapixels but who NEED (or just like) to have as much performance as possible in other areas. Sorry, but this is not your camera. This is a megapixel war camera. A medium format shooter "bait" camera. It's inevitable, given the semi-success of the $8K D3X and 1Ds mk3. (And considering the relatively GOOD per-pixel quality of the 7D at lower ISO's...)
My hope is that Canon and Nikon will BOTH still have "affordable versions of their flagship sensor" on the market within 12 months of the release of that sensor.
So, even if Canon and Nikon announce something totally "stupid" early this year, with minimal improvements in the areas we want the MOST improvement, ...don't worry just yet because I'm hoping we'll see some MUCH better cameras come to market, as soon as Canon and Nikon have had their fun selling a fair amount of $5-7K flagships...
Even if Canon remains completely stubborn and never MSRP's a new FF body below $3K, you can at least take heart that a used 1Ds mk3 is getting WAY down there by now; my friend picked one up for under $3K when the economy was causing people to fire-sale stuff. And also, I'm sure that within 1-2 years of the 1DX announcement, you'll be able to find them used for $4K or so. Which is probably what a new 5DX would cost anyways, given the current terrible exchange rate and inflation...
Here's to hoping it's a brighter future!
=Matt=
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum