Monitor -- IPS

Dogdots

I'm looking for a new monitor. I've looked at monitors IPS panels with and H, E, S and P in front of the ISP. What is the difference? Is there a difference?

Problem for me is I have a Dell 2209wa that is acting up and I took out the warranty when I bought it 2 years ago so my replacement will likely have to be through dell.

ziggy53

Newsy always has good answers about monitors:

http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=1663948&postcount=8

(I wouldn't worry too much about the IPS prefix. There are more important factors, as Newsy explains.)

Newsy

Dogdots wrote: »

I'm looking for a new monitor. I've looked at monitors IPS panels with and H, E, S and P in front of the ISP. What is the difference? Is there a difference?

Problem for me is I have a Dell 2209wa that is acting up and I took out the warranty when I bought it 2 years ago so my replacement will likely have to be through dell.

They'll likely offer the U2212HM which offers 21.5" 1920x1080, sRGB gamut, LED back lit, e-IPS tft panel.

The e-IPS panel it uses is a bit different than the one in the 2209WA and the U2212HM is also a "6bit + AFRC" where the 2209WA is said to be a true 8bit. I don't think this "bit" difference is much to worry about.

There is also the U2312HM which is a 23" with specs similar to the U2212HM. They also have a U2412M, a 24" 1920x1200 with similar specs which gets fairly good comments from serious hobbyist photographers.

Btw, I also use a 2209WA and came this >< close to picking up a Dell U2412M during the Black Friday sale. Had it in my cart and they reverted the pricing a few hours earlier than I expected so I'll be waiting until our Boxing Day sale.

You can read up on these monitors here.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews.htm

The U2212HM review, which I have read, is currently only available via payment . I can tell you that of the three monitors - U2212HM, U2312HM, and U2412M - for photo editing I would take the U2212HM or the U2412M as the range of brightness adjustment is superior to the U2312HM for users who like to edit in a darker room. Check out the "Contrast Stability" section of the U2312HM and you'll see that even with Brightness set to zero, the monitors measured brightness is at about 114 cd/m2. That's fairly bright for a dark room as many users like to edit in a very dark room with their monitor set to about 80 cd/m2. As it has a LED back light, I would not expect to see the fading in the first year that you do with monitors that use a CCFL back light.

If you do any gaming, the U2312HM is perhaps the monitor to ask for due its' very low input lag.

.

brianb

Here's another reference that might be helpful, if you want to see what other IPS displays are available:
http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/s-ips-lcd-list.php

Dogdots

ziggy53 wrote: »

Newsy always has good answers about monitors:

http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=1663948&postcount=8

(I wouldn't worry too much about the IPS prefix. There are more important factors, as Newsy explains.)

Thanks Ziggy ... I learned a lot

Dogdots

Newsy wrote: »

They'll likely offer the U2212HM which offers 21.5" 1920x1080, sRGB gamut, LED back lit, e-IPS tft panel.

The e-IPS panel it uses is a bit different than the one in the 2209WA and the U2212HM is also a "6bit + AFRC" where the 2209WA is said to be a true 8bit. I don't think this "bit" difference is much to worry about.

There is also the U2312HM which is a 23" with specs similar to the U2212HM. They also have a U2412M, a 24" 1920x1200 with similar specs which gets fairly good comments from serious hobbyist photographers.

Btw, I also use a 2209WA and came this >< close to picking up a Dell U2412M during the Black Friday sale. Had it in my cart and they reverted the pricing a few hours earlier than I expected so I'll be waiting until our Boxing Day sale.

You can read up on these monitors here.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews.htm

The U2212HM review, which I have read, is currently only available via payment . I can tell you that of the three monitors - U2212HM, U2312HM, and U2412M - for photo editing I would take the U2212HM or the U2412M as the range of brightness adjustment is superior to the U2312HM for users who like to edit in a darker room. Check out the "Contrast Stability" section of the U2312HM and you'll see that even with Brightness set to zero, the monitors measured brightness is at about 114 cd/m2. That's fairly bright for a dark room as many users like to edit in a very dark room with their monitor set to about 80 cd/m2. As it has a LED back light, I would not expect to see the fading in the first year that you do with monitors that use a CCFL back light.

If you do any gaming, the U2312HM is perhaps the monitor to ask for due its' very low input lag.

.

Thank you for all the information

I took a look at the monitors you mentioned. I'm going to see if Dell will go with the U2412M. I see there is one with the warranty and a point and shoot to boot too on their website

Is taking out a warranty on a monitor a good thing? I know it's going to help me out here with my monitor, but is it the 'norm' to do so?

It can be a daunting task picking out a monitor when one doesn't know anything about them. I thank you again for taking the time to help me out. If I remember correctly you were the one that led me to the 2209wa I have now. Sure am bummed it's going .. it's a good monitor.

Dogdots

brianb wrote: »

Here's another reference that might be helpful, if you want to see what other IPS displays are available:
http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/s-ips-lcd-list.php

Thank-you ... This makes shopping so much easier. It will help me decide on my second monitor since I'm thinking of running 2 at once.

snapy

I found www.monitorsforphotography.com really useful when I was buying a new monitor recently. I was looking at the Dell U2312 but ended up buying the Asus PA238Q after I read a side by side comparison on that site.

Dogdots

Just wanted to let you all know ... Dell is replacing my monitor with another 2209WA. From what I was told they have some set aside in the warehouse in case they need them for replacements.

Then later he said they were going to send me out a refurbished one. That got me a little upset because my warranty is for a new replacement. Maybe someone knows if this is true or not, but I was told "The monitor is brand new, but they will be opening it and trying it before sending it out. Because they have opened the box and removed the plastic .. by Federal Law they can't say it's new anymore and have to label it refurbished". Is this true?

ziggy53

Dogdots wrote: »

Just wanted to let you all know ... Dell is replacing my monitor with another 2209WA. From what I was told they have some set aside in the warehouse in case they need them for replacements.

Then later he said they were going to send me out a refurbished one. That got me a little upset because my warranty is for a new replacement. Maybe someone knows if this is true or not, but I was told "The monitor is brand new, but they will be opening it and trying it before sending it out. Because they have opened the box and removed the plastic .. by Federal Law they can't say it's new anymore and have to label it refurbished". Is this true?

Did you give the Dell representative the verbal OK to send you the replacement 2209WA?
Specifically and exactly, what does your warranty state? (Word for word please.)

Dogdots

ziggy53 wrote: »

Did you give the Dell representative the verbal OK to send you the replacement 2209WA?
Specifically and exactly, what does your warranty state? (Word for word please.)

No I didn't give him a verbal ok to send the monitor nor did he ask if he could send it. He just said he was sending it. I didn't say anything other then ask him if it's new or not. That's when he went into the 'we are going to open it and try it and if we do it's considered refurbished then' he proceeded to explain to me about the federal rules.

Warranty I have is very simple on my sheet ... 5th year limited Warranty Extension, Monitor Advanced Exchange. That's all I have. I did contact Dell again through their chat to see if my 5 year still applies to the monitor coming and what do ya know ... I got the guy I've been talking with He said it does apply. I printed that chat out

My fear is I'm not getting a new monitor and maybe I'm reading this all wrong and I'm not suppose to be getting one. This federal stuff he mentioned .. could be true, but I don't know. Do you?

I know Dell is really good at sending out refurbished computers, etc if something happens during a warranty period. One thing I learned .. they don't like it if you purchase computer stuff separately. I had ordered my monitor separately from a 'desktop' unit. That really seems to confuse them. I actually ordered my monitor through the business section of Dell by talking with a rep in sales in TX. Maybe I should of called there when I started having problems.

ziggy53

If that's all your warranty says then it would appear to be their choice as to what to send you, as long as it replaces and "exchanges" your failing unit.

As long as the replacement meets your needs and lasts until the warranty expires I don't see a problem.

Dogdots

ziggy53 wrote: »

If that's all your warranty says then it would appear to be their choice as to what to send you, as long as it replaces and "exchanges" your failing unit.

As long as the replacement meets your needs and lasts until the warranty expires I don't see a problem.

Yes it was my fault when I talked with the guy in TX. I should of gotten it in 'print' when he said it would be new if there was ever anything wrong.

Do you know anything about the line he gave me about it being a federal law on calling it refurbished if they open it to check it out? Was that a line of crud he was feeding me?

ziggy53

Dogdots wrote: »

Yes it was my fault when I talked with the guy in TX. I should of gotten it in 'print' when he said it would be new if there was ever anything wrong.

...

Not quite. The written warranty is your contract. It would supersede anything you might receive from a "representative", no matter what the method of communication. Before purchasing the warranty extension, you should insist on seeing a copy of the warranty and extension instead of depending on an individual interpretation of the warranty. Most reputable dealers will indeed allow you to see a copy of the warranty extension before purchasing the warranty extension itself.

Dogdots wrote: »

... Do you know anything about the line he gave me about it being a federal law on calling it refurbished if they open it to check it out? Was that a line of crud he was feeding me?

It is true that many "refurbished" items are "unused" and returned to either the manufacturer or the dealer for any number of reasons. It is probably true, although I don't know it as a fact, that those returned items may not be sold as "new", since they have been in customers hands. Rather, they are tested and cleaned and returned to market for sale as "refurbished".

I believe, but again I don't know it as a fact, that defective and failed items may also be repaired to "like new" condition and sold as "refurbished", as long as they retain most of the original product life. I don't think that there are regulatory laws regarding refurbished items as much as there are laws about what may be considered "new".

Either way, it does not sound as though you are entitled to a "new" replacement through your warranty extension, although the dealer may elect to supply a new replacement if they have no refurbished items available.

Dan7312

Also if the manufacturer provided a warranty that provided a new rather than a refurbished unit, over a 5 year period their accounts would probably require them to have a warehouse full of new replacement units that they couldn't sell. Manufacturing a particular model of electronics for more than a year in pretty rare.

A refurb isn't always such a bad deal. If the manufacturer really checks it out and refub's it, it will probably be better than a new one. The problem for 'togs though is that what's critical is how well it produces colors, which isn't something most others worry about and I doubt that Dell checks for.

The question is will Dell replace you refurb if there is a problem with it's colors.

As far as extended warrrenty goes, is there any reason to think that an IPS display will maintain it colors/brightness, etc over a 5 year period? I don't know, just something to think about.

ziggy53 wrote: »

Not quite. The written warranty is your contract. It would supersede anything you might receive from a "representative", no matter what the method of communication. Before purchasing the warranty extension, you should insist on seeing a copy of the warranty and extension instead of depending on an individual interpretation of the warranty. Most reputable dealers will indeed allow you to see a copy of the warranty extension before purchasing the warranty extension itself.



It is true that many "refurbished" items are "unused" and returned to either the manufacturer or the dealer for any number of reasons. It is probably true, although I don't know it as a fact, that those returned items may not be sold as "new", since they have been in customers hands. Rather, they are tested and cleaned and returned to market for sale as "refurbished".

I believe, but again I don't know it as a fact, that defective and failed items may also be repaired to "like new" condition and sold as "refurbished", as long as they retain most of the original product life. I don't think that there are regulatory laws regarding refurbished items as much as there are laws about what may be considered "new".

Either way, it does not sound as though you are entitled to a "new" replacement through your warranty extension, although the dealer may elect to supply a new replacement if they have no refurbished items available.

ziggy53

Dan7312 wrote: »

... The question is will Dell replace you refurb if there is a problem with it's colors.

As far as extended warrrenty goes, is there any reason to think that an IPS display will maintain it colors/brightness, etc over a 5 year period? I don't know, just something to think about.

I'm not sure if the Dell warranty, or any warranty for a commodity monitor, has a "suitability" clause or not. Many dealers will honor the warranty for defective pixels and off-axis luminance, from the few reports I've seen.

The illumination source for any LCD display pretty much governs brightness issues. Florescent backlit displays will (typically) show truer colors versus white-LED backlit displays, but the white-LED backlit displays will probably show less color drift over time.

Dogdots

Thank you both for your insight into 'refurbished'. That word seems to have different definitions

Dell may not be the best computer product out there, but I will give them credit on one thing .. if there is something wrong during the warranty they replace it quickly. I was told and again it's just a reps word ... that if there is anything wrong with the monitor that's coming to me I will get another one that's equal or upgraded. That is why they are calling me on Tuesday evening. They want to make sure it's working properly.

I do have a more detailed warranty somewhere other then what I was able to provide for you Ziggy, but I can't seem to find it even tho I keep searching. For an organized person my paperwork isn't very organized

I love my monitor now so getting another one like it makes me happy. My concern with 'refurbished' was I might be having problems with it sooner then expected. Guess it falls into that 'gray' area. Plus when someone starts telling me it's a federal law on how it's worded .. well that's even 'grayer'

Edit....

When I bought my computer dead pixels were covered. That seemed to be standard in the warranty. Now I don't know if that was because it was bought in the business section of Dell or not. When I bought mine the business section of sales was the only section I could get it. As far as the 2209 .. dead pixles haven't been an issue.

I should say my computer is fine color wise, etc. It just started flashing and I have a black line that shows up then fades away within a few min.

Dogdots

I just attached an image to show the black line. It didn't show on the image posted, but I can see it on my image on my monitor. Strange.

Dan7312

BTW, I've had similar experiences with Dell over the years. They seem pretty liberal in practice about fixing/replacing things if your talk to them. Even 10 or 15 years ago when it seems like one out of few things they shipped would have a problem, it was not a problem to get a replacement/fix.

Dogdots wrote: »

Dell may not be the best computer product out there, but I will give them credit on one thing .. if there is something wrong during the warranty they replace it quickly.

Dogdots

Dan7312 wrote: »

BTW, I've had similar experiences with Dell over the years. They seem pretty liberal in practice about fixing/replacing things if your talk to them. Even 10 or 15 years ago when it seems like one out of few things they shipped would have a problem, it was not a problem to get a replacement/fix.

People keep telling me to get another kind of computer, but Dell's service has been really good. For that I can't complain at all.

Dan7312

BTW I've always bought stuff on the business side of the Dell site.

Dogdots wrote: »

Thank you both for your insight into 'refurbished'. That word seems to have different definitions

Dell may not be the best computer product out there, but I will give them credit on one thing .. if there is something wrong during the warranty they replace it quickly. I was told and again it's just a reps word ... that if there is anything wrong with the monitor that's coming to me I will get another one that's equal or upgraded. That is why they are calling me on Tuesday evening. They want to make sure it's working properly.

I do have a more detailed warranty somewhere other then what I was able to provide for you Ziggy, but I can't seem to find it even tho I keep searching. For an organized person my paperwork isn't very organized

I love my monitor now so getting another one like it makes me happy. My concern with 'refurbished' was I might be having problems with it sooner then expected. Guess it falls into that 'gray' area. Plus when someone starts telling me it's a federal law on how it's worded .. well that's even 'grayer'

Edit....

When I bought my computer dead pixels were covered. That seemed to be standard in the warranty. Now I don't know if that was because it was bought in the business section of Dell or not. When I bought mine the business section of sales was the only section I could get it. As far as the 2209 .. dead pixles haven't been an issue.

I should say my computer is fine color wise, etc. It just started flashing and I have a black line that shows up then fades away within a few min.

ziggy53

I am personally very pleased with Dell service after sale.

A few years ago, my son purchased a Dell workstation grade laptop, refurbished, but in splendid condition.

He had problems with the display about the same time he was shipping overseas (Marines). He shipped the laptop to me to sort out.

He had started the Dell support mechanism and they had wanted to drive to him for support on-base. Unfortunately, because of "his" schedule, he couldn't give them a time to meet to affect repairs.

Once I had his machine, and his service ticket number (the case number) I called Dell support and also sent them an e-mail. E-mail was responded to within a couple of hours and set up a repair appointment. The Dell support person was dispatched from middle Iowa, I live in northern IL, and he did come the day he said, but arrived late at night. He called me via cell phone to say that he was late, but he was driving in snow/sleet and ice (all true). I told him he should not even try to finish his trip, not worry about me, and find a safe place to spend the night. (I had been watching the weather and "I" would not have driven at all that night.)

He called the next morning and came over early and was able to repair the machine by replacing the display. It did not take long at all. There was no charge for the repair. (This was a factory refurbished machine but I never did know the details of my sons warranty for the machine.)

I was extremely impressed with the Dell support mechanism and more impressed with the quality of people they employ.

Dogdots

Dan and Ziggy .. your both correct about Dells service. The people they send out are very kind and professional.

As for the business side of Dell .. they are great to work with if there's any issues with their product.

Overfocused

Dogdots wrote: »

I just attached an image to show the black line. It didn't show on the image posted, but I can see it on my image on my monitor. Strange.

If it's an issue with the monitor, that stripe isn't gonna show up in a screenshot. The data being recorded is taken from the video signal and not the monitor.
Now, if you took a photo of the monitor with an external device, you'd see the stripe.


Either way, that's definitely not a normal feature of operation of any monitor and may warrant replacement if it keeps happening. Just make sure your plugs and cables are good, and properly connected, since they'll ask you to try all of that anyway before sending it in for a replacement.

Dogdots

Overfocused wrote: »

If it's an issue with the monitor, that stripe isn't gonna show up in a screenshot. The data being recorded is taken from the video signal and not the monitor.
Now, if you took a photo of the monitor with an external device, you'd see the stripe.


Either way, that's definitely not a normal feature of operation of any monitor and may warrant replacement if it keeps happening. Just make sure your plugs and cables are good, and properly connected, since they'll ask you to try all of that anyway before sending it in for a replacement.

I didn't know that about it not showing up. Interesting

Cables are all good or at least we think they are. They had me test all that. It all started with what we/I thought was a huge static build up in my computer system. If I touched my mouse, desk or even walked by my machine you'd hear shocks. If I rolled out my keyboard tray you'd actually see blue sparks in the wheels on the tray. Scary really. When all that was going on my screen was having flashes and jumping. In ND it gets really dry here in the winter, but my humidity levels read good. Finally took the desk out, did a de-static on my machine and the sparks went away, but the monitor still is doing the same stuff.

Overfocused

It probably got damaged

Dogdots

Overfocused wrote: »

It probably got damaged

From static?

Overfocused

Dogdots wrote: »

From static?

Yes. Static to integrated circuits is like a human getting struck by lightning

Dogdots

Overfocused wrote: »

Yes. Static to integrated circuits is like a human getting struck by lightning

That makes sense.

Dogdots

Me Again

Dell sent me out another monitor and the line was there again using my original computer. Then they sent me out a brand new computer .. not refurbished .. with the same specs as my other computer. The line is still on my monitor -- the new/refurbished one they sent out. I did some google searches and I'm getting different opinions on it, but mostly the video card was mentioned as the problem. Then I read about 'a dead row in the video RAM'. Not a clue what that was, but they said to flip the screen and see if the line moves to the other side. I tried that and it didn't. Searched again tonight and I found there are issues with LCD screens doing this. They say it happens when a LCD monitor is going bad.

This really has me so confused. Any ideas as to what is happening? This whole process is really tiring me out.

ziggy53

If you have replaced both the monitor and the computer, about all that remains to try are:

Monitor cable. Has this been replaced?

Are you using an adapter of any kind to go from the computer to the display?

If the computer "and" the monitor have an alternate method of attachment, i.e. a VGA cable, try that temporarily.

RF/EMF interference. In rare instances, strong currents from nearby appliances can cause strange artifacts to appear on the screen. While it normally happened with CRT devices, I have seen some strange manifestations on LCD displays too. The usual test is to move just the computer and display to a different site in the house, to see if the problems go away. Also, leave the cables loose for the test. Sometime, tying the cables into a bundle can cause problems. (Avoid parallel cable runs.)