PC died, 99.8% sure I'll choose MAC - advice me
Cindy
Registered Users Posts: 542 Major grins
Considering moving to the Mac world - 99.8% sure I will - Wanna convince me either way & help me transition??? My experience with Dell & PC's has been long but with lots of issues, repairs & hiccups so that's why I'm considering the switch. Afterall everyone says Macs are more stable & hiccup free... I hope :-)
My Scenario: Since roughly Jan 2005 I've been using a Dell Gen 4 XPS with a Dell Ultrasharp 2001FP Digital Flat Panel monitor calibrated with Monico Optix Pro (I hate their calibration system = confusing & difficult but with headaches it's fairly close to accurate). Within the Dell I have the original 2, 400 gb harddrives set as raid 1 mirror C-Drive (containing the OS, programs & some but little data) + a 6 month old 2 TB Western Digital set as the D-drive containing all my data and about 3 weeks ago backed up to 2 external 2 TB hard drives. I will loose some data if I can't get the internal D-drive but hopefully not.
I'd been saving for a new Eizo monitor but last Saturday I updated Windows & when trying to restart it would try to come on but then shut itself right back down. Start button & 'B' diagnostic light on back flashing amber so into the repair shop where he opened it and said 'Your Motherboards toast' showing me the bulging leaking capacitors... yikes. :cry
I should be happy my dell lasted so long I guess & believe it or not I'm actually writing this on a real old slow dell purchased in 2001 with a 20 gb hard drive... it still works knock on wood lol.
After a long recovery from 2 neck surgeries the doc is about to release me & I plan to launch my photography biz early next year... so eventually I'd like 2 have a main home desktop + a travel laptop for client previews in the field...
With being just about to launch the biz I really want as few hardware headaches sucking my time. I know this is long but I'm desperate for advice so if you've read this far... hopefully you'll help me decide the best route to take. Thanks!
My Scenario: Since roughly Jan 2005 I've been using a Dell Gen 4 XPS with a Dell Ultrasharp 2001FP Digital Flat Panel monitor calibrated with Monico Optix Pro (I hate their calibration system = confusing & difficult but with headaches it's fairly close to accurate). Within the Dell I have the original 2, 400 gb harddrives set as raid 1 mirror C-Drive (containing the OS, programs & some but little data) + a 6 month old 2 TB Western Digital set as the D-drive containing all my data and about 3 weeks ago backed up to 2 external 2 TB hard drives. I will loose some data if I can't get the internal D-drive but hopefully not.
I'd been saving for a new Eizo monitor but last Saturday I updated Windows & when trying to restart it would try to come on but then shut itself right back down. Start button & 'B' diagnostic light on back flashing amber so into the repair shop where he opened it and said 'Your Motherboards toast' showing me the bulging leaking capacitors... yikes. :cry
I should be happy my dell lasted so long I guess & believe it or not I'm actually writing this on a real old slow dell purchased in 2001 with a 20 gb hard drive... it still works knock on wood lol.
After a long recovery from 2 neck surgeries the doc is about to release me & I plan to launch my photography biz early next year... so eventually I'd like 2 have a main home desktop + a travel laptop for client previews in the field...
- Can I use my current monitor with a new MacPro tower? &/or Laptop for photo processing?
- Since $ is tight should I just get a laptop & if possible connect it to my current monitor for photo processing etc until I can afford the Eizo?
- Or should I bite the bullet, borrow the remaining $ needed to get the full fledged Mac Pro Tower & possibly a new monitor
- My D-drive is NTFS... so I'm confused as to whether or not I can mount it in a new Mac... suggestions & how tos???
With being just about to launch the biz I really want as few hardware headaches sucking my time. I know this is long but I'm desperate for advice so if you've read this far... hopefully you'll help me decide the best route to take. Thanks!
Cindy Colbert (Utterback) • Wishing You Co-Bear Love, Hugs & Laughter!!!
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I have been using Mac products for the past four years for photography - mix of landscape and portrait work.
Was on a macbook with external monitor (calibrated with the same Monaco optix product
Now on a 27" iMac. 1 TB internal HDD. 2TB external for storage and another as a clone/on site backup.
I use PS CS5, LR3, and plugins. Some HDR work. Machine does fine with all.
Some thoughts:
MacPro was last updated 15 months ago and is currently slower than latest generation iMac. Most likely update will come 1st quarter of 2012 (if it happens - I think it will).
Pros of the Macpro are essentially upgradeability as either the iMac or Macpro should do equally well with photo apps.
I would suggest getting a top of the line 27" iMac. It's powerful. Comes with option of 2 TB (and even SSD if you want). The screen is beautiful and calibrates better than my old NEC. Only 'problem' is the glass front. Depending on your set up, you may get reflections. In my office, the iMac sits in a corner with a window on either side and a light behind me. No overhead lights. I don't have any issues with reflections except on a very bright day. I mostly process at night so not a big deal. I think the reflection argument is a bit overdone personally.
The new thunderbolt out offers you great upgradeability (planning on getting a SSD or HDD enclosure when those come down in price a bit). Also can have video out to the Enzo when you've saved up for it. I imagine the savings on an iMac vs Macpro should just about get you there.
Hope that helps.
E
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Richard thanks for the heads up. I'll certainly do some research.
Eoren1 you've just thickened the plot & confirmed my suspicions about maybe being better off with an iMac. Are the screens really that easy to calibrate & really accurate? If so, then why would there ever be a need to go with an upgraded high priced Eizo? Would it benefit me or post production much? Do you use the same Monico Optix to calibrate your iMac or what do you recomend? Danny (my hubby) says just get the biggest baddest most expensive mac out there that way you'll know it'll be stable & last for a long long time - lol - but he doesn't know the cost & would change his mind super fast... besides I know I'd likely be wasting tons of $$$$ on want rather than need & can't afford to be completely stupid or I wouldn't need to launch a new biz :-)
So if you are all about CGI rendering or high end modeling, then this is probably your machine. If you ever wished you had a NVidia Quadro card for your PC or Mac, then this is the machine you always wanted. If Fibre channel connectivity, or 4:4:4 video capture means anything to you, this is your Mac.
Otherwise, a Macbook Pro or a iMac are going to SMOKE your current Dell. About the only thing you can not get on the Macbook Pro or iMac, that you can get on the Mac Pro is internal RAID, simply because the Macbook and iMac have only one harddrive. The Mac Pro can add 4+ hard drives. Personally, I find USB/Firewire hard drives to be perfect, but they are not RAIDed. Both the MacBook and iMac current generation offer Thunderbolt, which can be attached to a LaCie RAID array, and you get better throughput than your Dell offered, even on internal drives.
Your questions
1 - As long as the graphics card can support the interface of your monitor, you can use it on any machine. If not, there's almost always an adapter available.
2 -For $800-1250 you could get higher end and quite powerful Win7 laptop, and an external USB3/eSATA RAID enclosure for mirroring those 2TB drives while keeping high transfer speeds and portability. You may not even need any more than that since its just for general photo editing. My 3 year old laptop still smokes files and panoramas from the 5DMKII. Figure out just what you really need and I'm sure something that's not the best out there will absolutely kill any general photo editing task. Plus, even the cheapest $300 systems on sale in stores now will obliterate the 7 year old Gen4XPS machine. Just don't count on them lasting too long,
3 - Decked out imacs are $2.5-3k+. For $3k you could get a PC with the highest quality components, a better calibrator, a monitor if you wish, and have $ to spare afterward. Windows 7 is just as good as any Mac OS nowadays. Actually, it supports even more than the mac OS for serious editors that use 10-bit systems but I don't think you need that
4 - You can read, but not write to NTFS with a Mac. NTFS is copyrighted by Microsoft. You'd have to move the data off, and format it with FAT32, or GPT, then copy the data back. I'm not sure if Mac OS supports GPT, but I don't believe there are copyright issues there so if it does you'd be able to read and write to it.
Bit more info on the iMac:
The screen really does calibrate that well - deltaE values less than 0.8! However, it's all about how well you can control the light in your environment. If you set it up with a large window behind it or you have overhead lights and tilt it up, you're going to have a problem. Just go to the nearest Apple store/Best Buy and see what I mean.
However, if you can control the light, those issues really do go away. What people conveniently forget is that even a matte screen will have some reflections in it (i'm using my old NEC as a secondary display now and can see my hands reflected as I type).
A solid iMac runs about $2000 - http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/767676-REG/Apple_Z0M7_0002_27_iMac_Desktop_Computer.html
I bought mine from BHphoto where it came tax free, shipped free and at a discount compared to the Apple store.
If you want to spend the money, get the i7 one (I went with an i5 to save a few bucks and don't do any video work). You can get an SSD inside to speed things up (way faster than your RAID setup) but now you're pushing 3k.
Alternatively, do what I plan on and wait til Drobo comes out with a thunderbolt version and you'll be all set with external storage (especially if they figure out a way to run an SSD/HDD setup to speed up the rig).
If you are not doing heavy-duty video/audio work, I think the Macpro is overkill - especially in the near future as external storage will be just as fast as internal ones.
E
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If you need full NTFS integration, you can either use Boot Camp, VMWare Fusion, or Tuxerahttp://www.tuxera.com/products/tuxera-ntfs-for-mac/ app.
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Yes they are. For a $1400 budget on a PC I could kill the specs you're getting with these $1400 i-macs
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My dual IPS screens were not $700-900 (for both) and, thankfully, they aren't glossy either.
This. I'll never understand the price differential of MACs (especially now that they're running similar guts). Spend less on something that'll do the same job and the extra 2k on glass
EDIT: Full disclaimer. I've never bought a computer in my life. I've been building them since I was 9. Dos was home for me. Windows 7 IS amazing and a great replacement if you loved XP and hated the stupidity of vista. Windows seems to do well every OTHER OS. Remember 98? lol.
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What would you buy (not build) for $1,400 that would kill all iMac specs (including customer satisfaction stats)?
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http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+Laptop+/+Intel%26%23174%3B+Core%26%23153%3B+i7+Processor+/+17.3%26%2334%3B+Display+/+8GB+Memory+-+Black/3411058.p?id=1218399201395&skuId=3411058
RAID enabled, (raid 0, but if she wants I bet she could get it configured to raid 1), USB3, powerful graphics, 8gb RAM, and while I was talking about just specs, best buy and asus both have good customer service so she shouldn't have much trouble in that dept. I don't know about it being possible for Apple to be surpassed in customer satisfaction since they have an occult following of worshipers that would leap in front of trains for the cause... oh, she'd also need an HDMI converter cable for whatever interface her monitor is, for $5-10. Then she can watch a movie of said Apple fanatics leaping in front of trains on her awesome monitor
And a plethora of choices that I really don't want to look through:
http://www.xoticpc.com/custom-gaming-laptops-notebooks-business-government-laptops-ct-118_100_104.html
Actually that list is insanely huge and kind of ridiculous, but this list is good for seeing what's out there though. There are other reputable brands with longer warranties but I'm not about to look through all of that (I.E. MSI has 2-4 year warranties) Also, I think anything from $500+ will blow her expectations away compared to that 7 year old machine
And I've had the best laptop I could have hoped for in terms of maximum performance and hardware per dollar from Gateway for the last 3 years, but do not get a gateway, unless you're willing to go on your own with it. Terrible customer service that hardly understands anything, let alone English. I'm a computer geek so I was willing to go without it.
You can't compare dual 23" to a single 27". If you want to make an Apples to Apples comparison (pardon the pun). Yes, with an iMac, you are 'stuck' with essentially two options for screens but that 27" really is a great one.
I too built PCs since I was 10 or so. The last PC I built is now relegated to the basement where it serves as my HTPC. There is nothing 'cult' like in my satisfaction with Mac products. After tinkering with PCs (yes, including removing malware/viruses), the Mac really does 'just work'.
A good (geeky) friend and I both went down this road one year ago. I got the iMac, he built his own PC. Mine lets me do what I need. He has been fighting with his (intermittent crashes - ended up being RAM) until the board bit the dust last week (a good Asus one). I'm not saying boards don't die but there was a clear discrepancy in how we each interacted with our machines.
Again, the iMac is a $600-900 computer stuffed into the guts of a $900 screen. The cost for the computer part is comparable (though admittedly a bit more) to the PC if you go by the specs.
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It's just nonsense. I have an iPhone, an iPad, and a MacBook Air. I'm certainly no Apple hater. My desktop is a PC.
Macs have RAM that goes bad too. Macs have hard drive failures. Macs even, gasp, get recalled and need major repairs. You have a geeky friend with a bad PC experience. I have friends with Macbook Pros that have had system boards replaced multiple times. What does either story prove? Do you really ant to argue that Macs just work? Go to the discussion forums on the Apple site and read a bit. Do you think those folks are just making stuff up? I love my MacBook Air. It's my second one. Why? The first arrived DOA and had to be sent back. You have a logical fallacy in your argument when you say "I'm not saying boards don't die but there was a real discrepancy in how we each interacted with our machines." What you're implying is that the discrepancy is because you have a Mac and he has a PC. The discrepancy was actually because he had faulty hardware, which you yourself ad,it happens with Macs too.
Macs, like PCs, are complex electronic devices. There are lots of things that can go wrong and lots of things that can break. While the external design of their hardware almost always outpaces their competition, the guts of their machines are pieced together in the same Chinese factories as Dell and HP. To suggest manufacturing or component superiority is quite naive.
When Mac zealots (which you are, self-identified or not) make the case about value the target always moves. It begins with a blanket pronouncement that the Mac is an equal or better spec'd machine for the price. After some quick fact-checking, things like the form-factor, the customer service, and the OS take the primary place in the defense. You are correct that a 27" monitor is not the same as dual 23s. Dual 23s are better, especially when they don't come with a horrid piece of reflective glass on top. If we're really comparing machines it's got to be a comparison of what do I get and what can I do with it; not, how much would it cost me to build a PC that is the same form factor as this Mac. If form factor is a primary consideration in the computer purchase that's fine - nothing wrong with that. And really, that (plus customer service) is the ground that Mac folks always end up defending in these debates. I just wish it was where they began rather than with blanket, misleading statements about Mac superiority in hardware and price.
The OP has a PC that has lasted ten years and is replacing a primary machine that lasted six. I think a rather strong case has been made from the outset that, just like Macs, some PCs work for a long time too.
You linked to a laptop. You are showing us an entirely different thing that sells for less money. The screen in that laptop can't compare to an iMac. She certainly could save money by not buying a new screen, but then the comparison becomes Mac Mini vs. other desktops, or MacBooks vs. other laptops.
If you don't value all features of an iMac, you can certainly find an alternative without the features you don't care about. That just means your priorities are different, not that an iMac buyer is automatically spending too much.
As for blowing her expectations . . . Maybe, but maybe she expects something similar to newish machines she has used but does not own.
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How will the equipment be used is always the first place to start. What are the requirements?
I have been wondering lately how many professional photographers who used to only do photographs are now doing something related to video.
How many photographers are capturing video with their newer cameras and doing post edits.
How many photographers are creating slideshows that really are videos from the photographs.
If it is becoming a sizable majority, which I believe may be the case, then a capable graphics card is an important consideration in the selection and purchase of a desktop or laptop.
"You don't take a photograph, you make it." ~Ansel Adams
Phil
Budget: While I hate spending $$$$ where I don't need it, I do want it to work well 5+ years & would prefer spending the money now rather than a little bit here & there each year costing me significant time & more headaches. After sitting down with hubby last night & crunching #'s we figured allowing roughly $6,500 if the 'need' exists because this is a long term biz investment. This includes computer, software, monitor, everything. I'd prefer spending less obviously but am willing to go a bit more for 'need'. I'm still running CS2 so $1,200+ is going straight to adobe for CS5.5 Design Standard *sigh*. I have the most current lightroom so that's transferable. Still checking on other software needs. (Not including a laptop as we decided it's not an immediate need & I can wait a year+ for it.)
I spent some time on apple's live chat last night & the gal I chatted with talked me out of the MacPro tower saying the 27" iMac with a few minor custom upgrades would best serve my needs (although she did voice concern over screen reflections). I then specked it out with better upgrades & went to Dell's website to compare options & pricing & whoa... was I shocked to discover that a very similar Dell would cost me even more money. So glad I decided to consider Mac :-)
Basically the 27" iMac is coming down to the screen & if it really can be calibrated beautifully, accurately, affordably & easily. Does that exist? I could obviously use my current Monaco Optix but I really dislike that software... but then again maybe it'd function better on their monitor :-( What are you'll using &/or recommend?
Security: I asked her about anti-virus, malware, idenity stuff, etc & what they recommended & she said they don't. Period. Maybe I'm to pc minded but because I bank, shop & basically live on-line I'm used to spending lots of time keeping this stuff updated religiously. Do I really not have to do that with a mac? Is it truly possible I could spend that time elsewhere? The idea of it makes me giddy & very nervous all in one breathe. I did notice on apple's website that they automatically download security stuff to the mac's. Is that what it is, security software running in the background that I never have to tinker with? This is an area I don't wanna take a chance with and gain massive headaches down the road. What do you real world mac users use/recommend?
There's little reason to be concerned, about this. There are the occasional trojan horses that masquerade as installer apps, but if you're careful they pose little risk. I figure having a good backup is enough protection against this stuff. I don't have to really worry about it, but if something did happen I could just restore. The pernicious malware that infects your system and requires a full reinstall? I've never heard of that. Just the trojans.
One thing to make sure you do is to check the Safari prefrences and turn off "Open Safe Files after downloading". No need for that, it's easy enough to open a file and you're a bit safer having control over what opens on your computer.
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To answer the question about the screen, take a look at this thread I started a while back on macrumors. At the time I had just returned a mac mini and replaced it with my current iMac. The mini was just not powerful enough for my needs despite a decent processor. I posted my calibration info (deltaE) and, if you scroll down the thread, you'll see a discussion about the glossy screen.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1201654
I will say that you will likely need a new colorimeter. I still use the Optix one but have to boot the iMac from a firewire drive into a snow leopard (last version) OS and run Coloreyes display pro which is the only program that still supports the device. Shame cause it is supposed to be one of the best colorimeters. There is an open source software but I didn't like my results with that one.
Good luck in your decision. If you have a store, it would be worth stopping in and seeing for yourself but be forewarned that that is a worst case scenario for that screen.
E
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My iMac callibrates just fine, and I use and old Spyder2 (doesnt work in Lion but I can still use by booting to Snow Leopard). I am asking Santa for a ColorMunki Display. The only limitation of the iMac screen that I know of is that it can not be dimmed all the way down like some standalone displays. However, I have never hit that limit in calibration, so that has not been and issue. Reflections are not an issue either, after about an hour you don't notice them. You can get a clear decal to make it matte finish if it really bothers you.
Today, there are no Mac viruses, and the only malware are exploits that require you to install an app: and nothing fixes stupid. That doesn't mean there won't be any, but today, no need for AV software. I don't use any.
Macs have less viruses not no viruses, because of how small their market share is relative to Microsoft - and it's only growing. Hence back to my joke about the Apple occult and their beliefs. I was just joking before but as a person with a bit of a background in computers this is just laughable.
Shes going to be banking with all of her personal info online, in which infections only need to infiltrate once to steal. So yeah we'll recover the compuer but how about the private info that got stolen while you let it sit on the computer till it shows signs of being there? It just takes one well disguised phishing site or wrong click, and she's got some sort of adware/malware/virus. She's a heavy user who will be doing a lot on this machine - which means she will run into something eventually, and probably sooner than later. Why take the chance?
Eh, what am I saying? The Mac will always be OK, so lets not worry about the rest. Honestly with this mentality, if a group of hackers decided to start writing effective new Mac viruses they'd have the Mac world on their knees in no time. Sorry to the OP for the mess on this forum, but my inner geek just goes nuts when completely ridiculous and potentially destructive ideas like this get thrown out there as truths.
I am a heavy net user and only run little snitch on my Mac. The paranoid in me wants to know when and where my software programs reach out to the world. If I don't like what I see, I block them. That being said, I haven't had any issues in 5 years of working on a macbook/imac.
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Yes, but you're actively monitoring everything and know just what to do, which is not the luxury of most Mac users. Phishing is what firewalls can help with more than AV. Comodo has a DNS relay server option that if you use it, it auto-warns about quite a few phishing sites and is quite effective. It still allows you to go in if you want, but it tells you first.
OK I'm done going nutso back to you Cindy, lol.
Indeed, such things as Adobe Reader, or Java, can be impacted, however, since Mac does not have a registry, and since most app interaction requires admin password access, few exploits have any effect on a mac. As I mentioned, if you get a password challenge that you didn't launch yourself, you should say no...common sense on any platform.
I do recommend folks absolutely use a router with firewall capability, and if not, at least a personal firewall. I also recommend folks use OpenDNS, and turn on its security features, including web filtering. But antivirus? Not so much.
I will put it this way: I earn my living in the Security software business, so I am perhaps a bit more informed than others. For my off hours, 'supporting' friends and family, I do not deploy Windows machines without AV. I have 7 Macs I personally manage, and 6 PCs. Not a single Mac has AV of any sort, ranging from newbie users, kids to grandparents. Not a single exploit, trojan, virus etc has hit them. Might they get one some day? Sure, but I am very comfortable.
Go ahead, buy Norton for Mac. It won't do any harm. Or download ClamAV. But make sure you have a router (change the admin password and SSID pls) and use OpenDNS.
Security: ...... QUOTE]
Just interested, what Dell model do you use as a comparison?
Regarding security for Windows machine there is much available, even the free Microsoft Security Essentials. Load it once and let it update automatically. Simple, free and effective.
"You don't take a photograph, you make it." ~Ansel Adams
Phil