Good lord these statements are wrong in so many ways.
Macs have less viruses not no viruses, because of how small their market share is relative to Microsoft - and it's only growing. Hence back to my joke about the Apple occult and their beliefs. I was just joking before but as a person with a bit of a background in computers this is just laughable.
My understanding is that there are no known Mac viruses in the wild. Trojan Horses, yes. Viruses? no.
I'd be interested to know that I'm wrong with a specific example of a virus in the wild.
Macdefender (malware) was probably the biggest one in recent years. Apple now has a built in app to screen for that one.
There was another relatively big one that was found in pirated copies of iLife or iWork (can't remember which). The actual payload was minimal but it made the news for a while.
Here's an up to date list of malware on the Mac...23 listed to date: http://www.reedcorner.net/guides/macvirus/malware_catalog.php
Macdefender (malware) was probably the biggest one in recent years. Apple now has a built in app to screen for that one.
There was another relatively big one that was found in pirated copies of iLife or iWork (can't remember which). The actual payload was minimal but it made the news for a while.
Here's an up to date list of malware on the Mac...23 listed to date: http://www.reedcorner.net/guides/macvirus/malware_catalog.php
You're right David and, according to ClamXAv's website there are no viruses that target Mac OS X (only trojans/malware) - http://www.clamxav.com/about.php
You're right David and, according to ClamXAv's website there are no viruses that target Mac OS X (only trojans/malware) - http://www.clamxav.com/about.php
Then again that company is selling anti virus software for Mac OS X through donations.
That's a version of OSX that's 6 years old and a virus that only infects PowerPC computers. It can't spread over the internet, and...it's a Trojan Horse, not a virus. "For the worm to take effect, the user must manually invoke it by opening the tar file and then running the disguised executable within." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap_(computer_worm)
Only one infects OS X (and only powerPC computers running OS X) - thus it does not appear that there are any viruses that infect a modern Mac running OS X.
That's a version of OSX that's 6 years old and a virus that only infects PowerPC computers. It can't spread over the internet, and...it's a Trojan Horse, not a virus. "For the worm to take effect, the user must manually invoke it by opening the tar file and then running the disguised executable within." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap_(computer_worm)
Yep, you're right. It cannot self-propagate and/or forward. Two AV software manufacturers were calling it a "virus", so I thought it was true. (Only in the eyes of AV marketeers, apparently.)
- Love not war guys! :-) I'm not looking back at what I had... I'm looking towards what I need now & 5 years from now as I want it to last as long as possible. My usage does include creating slideshow video & waiting on render time stinks + lots of photo editing so faster is better. I also practically live online... banking, shopping, email, surfing blogs, forums, facebook, twitter... no gaming but daily heavy use.
Budget: While I hate spending $$$$ where I don't need it, I do want it to work well 5+ years & would prefer spending the money now rather than a little bit here & there each year costing me significant time & more headaches. After sitting down with hubby last night & crunching #'s we figured allowing roughly $6,500 if the 'need' exists because this is a long term biz investment. This includes computer, software, monitor, everything. I'd prefer spending less obviously but am willing to go a bit more for 'need'. I'm still running CS2 so $1,200+ is going straight to adobe for CS5.5 Design Standard *sigh*. I have the most current lightroom so that's transferable. Still checking on other software needs. (Not including a laptop as we decided it's not an immediate need & I can wait a year+ for it.)
...
Cindy, I just wanted to drop into say I intend to buy a "5-6 year machine" once the next gen Mac Pro comes out in 2012. While the iMac's are great, I'd consider them more of a "3 year machine" given the level of integration of all the components. I want a beast that can be beefed up even more over time as it will serve as the core of my storage and heavy lifting services. I'll be using an MBA of some form for travel and portability when needed.
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Matthew SavilleRegistered Users, Retired ModPosts: 3,352Major grins
edited December 9, 2011
Alright, listen up people! You're going about this discussion ALL WRONG! This has almost nothing to do with computer parts, or exact equivalent costs, etc. ...The whole thing boils down to just one question:
...DO YOU WANT TO SMASH YOUR COMPUTER, INSTEAD OF FIXING IT?
I know that sounds totally random, but some of you probably already know what I'm getting at. What I mean is, quite simply, ...are you a computer geek, or not?
If you currently use a Windows computer and are considering a switch, here's the next question to ask yourself: Do you LIKE the idea of learning how to make your PC run smoothly? Do you like the idea of being a "computer whiz" who knows the difference between a CPU and a GPU?
...Because at the end of the day, Windows is WAY MORE VERSATILE. The number one complaint from my PC-loving gamer / photog friends is, that they feel too constrained, they can't tweak and poke deep into the system settings.
It's ironic, really, that die-hard PC builders are driven insane by the main thing that makes an Apple computer so desirable to others- It's simple, it's idiot-friendly.
Me? I have NO PROBLEM with Apple "insulting my intelligence" by taking away 75-90% of the versatility that a PC has, and just leaving me with a simple computer that runs smoothly and reliably for days, weeks, even months without ever having to shut down, let alone crash.
I'll be the first to confess, I hate computers. Sure, I'm a camera geek, but that doesn't make me a software programmer too. Far too often photographers feel guilty about being computer illiterate. But in my opinion, as long as you understand data safety and proper image backup, you can hate computers all you want!
...But I digress. Here's the LAST question you can ask yourself, before deciding to switch: Do you have anybody who can maintain your PC for you? I mean if you're perfectly happy with Windows, and you have a spouse or BFF who loves PC's and you see them regularly, then you could be good to go. Just tell this friend / relative that you'd like to spend $1-3K on a screaming fast PC, (watch their eyes light up as they take your credit card to Fry's, or log on to Newegg!) ...and then just let yourself be blown away by how INSANELY FAST (and smooth running?) your new computer is.
Okay, so if NONE of those options sound appealing to you at all, if you don't get excited at all by the thought of building your own machine from scratch, well, then yes it is time to head to the Apple store. Time to spend a little extra, and get an "idiot" friendly", sexy-looking computer. Your blood pressure will thank you no doubt. Your clients will think you're really successful, too!
...Is it really that simple? In a word, yes. To me, it just comes down to whether or not computer maintenance is "fun" for you.
Because let's face it, Windows is still a lot more buggy, or at least far more complex than, Apple OSX. Even if smooth-running Windows machines do exist, there is still a FAR greater chance that your store-bought PC, or one lone component from your home-built PC, will give you issues that drive you up the wall. For example, for the life of me I can't get Windows to KEEP the "eject media" icon (Explorer) in the system tray, no matter how many times I click "customize" on the system tray and tell it to "always show both icons and notifications". ..And that's just one random small thing off the top of my head.
My personal story is exactly as you may have guessed by now- I'm super geeky, but I still hate computers. Therefore, I do own an old Macbook and an old iMac; they just WORK. They run forever and don't give me more than 5-10% of the errors (and rage issues) that my PC gives me.
But on the other hand, I've gotten used to certain things about Windows that I really prefer as well, especially for workflow. I can arrange my explorer windows around with hotkeys. It's so much easier to see transfer speeds, etc. etc.
So, now I use both. My home computer is an iMac, the one I use for Netflix, Hulu, Pandora, foruming, shopping, facebooking, etc. What can I say, the dang thing just won't die, and it never gives me any trouble! Then, my work computer is an Asus gaming PC with an i7 core, dual hard drives, (SATA-6 SSD + 750 GB hybrid) 8 GB of RAM and 1.5 GB of graphics, etc. etc. It reacts instantly when I'm editing in Lightroom, and it can render 1:1 previews for a thousand 12 MP RAW files in less than an hour. It cost me only $1600, and a $2800 Macbook pro wouldn't even have dual hard drive bays. Another thing I like about my work PC is the incredible affordability of USB 3.0 storage. I picked up a 2.5" 1TB external drive the other day for $95! I'm sure Thunderbolt is faster, but the cost and available options (or lack theorof) is a deal-breaker.
So, this would be my advice to Cindy: If your old PC is just getting bogged down but you don't actually hate Windows itself; if you have someone in your life who loves PC's and would be happy to maintain one for you, then do consider it. HOWEVER, if you're in the crowd that is ready to smash your PC instead of fixin it, then yes, get an iMac.
Personally I don't really need 27"; I'm so used to the pixel density of my 17" laptop with full 1080p. I'd rather have a 21" iMac with a 2nd 21" display, if you ask me. Much more practical for multi-tasking. The only reason to get the 27" might be for the wow-factor, if the computer is in a studio where clients will see images on it. But I digress. Get an iMac, get the best CPU and the best graphics, but forget RAM and hard drive upgrades. You can save hundreds of dollars by installing your own secondary hard drive, and upgrading your own RAM. (For example Apple charges $600 for the 256 GB SSD in an iMac, but you can buy a good one for under $400. Although I suppose hard drives are a little bit more scary to self-install, so maybe it's worth the extra $250 if you're REALLY computer-phobic. Although, back to the whole BFF thing, I know plenty of people who would happily do the deed for a few bucks and let you keep most of that $250...
Anyways, yeah if you're going to get an Apple computer, get an iMac. It may be all-inclusive, but it is just as likely to last you ~5 years as a Mac Pro tower. If you ask me, Mac Pro towers are WAY overkill for a simple professional photography workflow. You just don't need that many cores, or that much RAM, etc. Maybe if you're planning WAY ahead, for Lightroom 4.0 and 5.0, and 40 megapixel cameras maybe? But honestly? I could still buy and re-sell an iMac every ~2-3 years instead, and still save thousands.
Personally, if I ever return to the Apple OS for my main workflow, it will be either when I upgrade to a new iMac, or when I build a "Hackintosh" machine that can run BOTH operating systems using the EFIX technique. Bottom line- I hate computers, that is certain, but I gotta get a job done and I've decided that I am in fact geeky enough (and currently broke enough) to enjoy both PC and Mac.
Only argument I'll put forth is that the 27 inch screen is preferable to dual ones. I use the 27" and have my old 20" in vertical orientation beside it.
For any photo work (especially Lightroom), I much prefer just working on a single (large)screen. I don't see any benefit from the second display options in LR.
I do use my old display (rotated) as a really nice web browser window. I suggest getting the 27" and setting up the old screen in a similar fashion.
I'm with you on this. None of my Macs run Anti-Virus software.
Firewalls up, normal paranoia about clicking links in email (Never click on a link in email from your bank. Navigate there yourself), cautious with downloads, etc. but no AV required.
Since there are no Mac viruses in the wild, the AV software isn't protecting you from anything - just providing the hope that if a virus is discovered the AV provider will identify it and send you an update before _you_ pick up the virus. If the virus gets to you first, you're machine is infected.
A comment on Macs and computer geekery: indeed, the hardware side of computer geekery is lost when you go Mac: you do not have the freedom to pop it open and replace stuff. I mean you can, but my personal experience is that you will only try it once...its frightening.
And indeed Mac software is simple, most times elegant, and works. BUT, and here is the crazy part, the Mac OSX is a Jeykll and Hyde. For most folks, its cool icons, drag and drop, and no tweaking allowed. But under all that, lies a Unix heart (Mach). Yes Mac OSX is Unix. So, it would not surprise you to learn that many professional geeks (those of us that geek for a living) prefer and use Macs, because you can tweek, configure and generally geek out on Mac at a level that most associate with Linux. I use Macs at work, and that shocks many folks given where I work.
The nice thing is that you lose nothing at all by never venturing into the Unix Terminal. Most have no idea, and its best it stays that way. But for those that like to geek on software, Mac OSX is liberating.
Are Digital Photographers Really Geeks?
I realize that the following content is not necessarily on topic for this posting, so I hope you don't mind.....
The point about being "geeky" has been mentioned in this discussion a number of times and in a way as if that is uncommon for Digital photographers. Photographers and videograhers are artists but I think it today's electronic environment they are also geeks in the electronic sense.
Look at how cameras and components have changed in just the last three years or so with the inclusion of video in DSLRs. And how it is evolved since the first digital cameras in 20 years. Absolutely amazing.
What distinguishes those that are really into the computer side of Digital photography and videography is that they can afford perhaps to make time to be heavily involved in that part of the equation. It takes time, a lot of time, to constantly research, learn and put into place new computer technology. And it is constantly changing, maybe that is why I love it.
It also takes a lot of time to research all the components for Digital photography and videography. There are a lot of products to research, integrate and learn how to use. And maybe that is partly why I love it.
So are Digital photographers and videographers "geeks", well from my perspective, "yes."
Only argument I'll put forth is that the 27 inch screen is preferable to dual ones. I use the 27" and have my old 20" in vertical orientation beside it.
For any photo work (especially Lightroom), I much prefer just working on a single (large)screen. I don't see any benefit from the second display options in LR.
Totally unrelated to the OPs discussion, but you really need to check out some dual-monitor setups and uses for Lightroom. I cannot imagine going back to one screen.
I realize that the following content is not necessarily on topic for this posting, so I hope you don't mind.....
The point about being "geeky" has been mentioned in this discussion a number of times and in a way as if that is uncommon for Digital photographers. Photographers and videograhers are artists but I think it today's electronic environment they are also geeks in the electronic sense.
Look at how cameras and components have changed in just the last three years or so with the inclusion of video in DSLRs. And how it is evolved since the first digital cameras in 20 years. Absolutely amazing.
What distinguishes those that are really into the computer side of Digital photography and videography is that they can afford perhaps to make time to be heavily involved in that part of the equation. It takes time, a lot of time, to constantly research, learn and put into place new computer technology. And it is constantly changing, maybe that is why I love it.
It also takes a lot of time to research all the components for Digital photography and videography. There are a lot of products to research, integrate and learn how to use. And maybe that is partly why I love it.
So are Digital photographers and videographers "geeks", well from my perspective, "yes."
Phil
Indeed. And, honestly? I'm starting to feel the "oldschool" in me already. I'm scared of EVF's. I'm scared of losing physical buttons to a touchscreen. I'm scared of my previously 100% mechanical camera turning into just another computer.
Do I enjoy the benefits of computers and a digital workflow? You bet! I wouldn't be shooting professionally if it weren't for digital and computers.
HOWEVER, I'm still not nearly enough of a computer geek to handle what is going on these days. I loathe computer issues enough that I value Apple's simplicity. And I would rather cast my eyes upon the REAL world, as opposed to just another electronic display. Until we see some HUGE breakthroughs in technology, staring at a computer screen all day is still going to be very bad for you.
I like the current level of blending between mechanical function and software. While there are plenty of new technological advances I'd love to see, there are plenty of down sides that I am NOT looking forward to.
I will ALWAYS have a special affinity for classic, mechanical cameras like my FM2. And I predict that amidst the new-age digital revolution of touchscreens and octo-CPU's, ...there will eventually be an Apple-like niche for simple, "oldschool" digital cameras. I look forward to that day.
Hi everyone - finally able to access this site again & LOVE the responses. Matt, as always your a complete total gem - Hugs! DavidTO, I loved the video & gonna make my family watch it :-)
Because I am so sick to death of computers myself & just wanna use it to get my work done & get back out there shooting & I wanna give apple a chance to wow me, I've ordered the 27" iMac. Yes, the 27" will in part be for client 'wow' factor as they come here to preview images before seeing anything on-line or elsewhere. I considered using 2 monitors & someday maybe I will but for now I'm used to & happy with one as long as it's a really good one. We're also gonna go ahead and order a MacBook Pro 13" due to the fact that this 11 year old Dell is showing major signs of visiting a grave very soon & besides needing something in the field, hubby needs a computer because I won't be sharing the 27" ;-)
Calibration: It's hard to find good reviews info for specifically calibrating the iMac 27" but from what I can tell the $145 ColorMunki 'Display' version should suit us well. Allthough most referrels only refer to colormunki &/or the colormunki photo version. Have any of you used this? Thoughts? Recommendations?
Hard Drive Defragmentation: With PC's I loved Diskeeper Pro which once set up auto ran & kept the hard drives defragmented beautifully allthough I've not found anyone mentioning this for macs. Will I need something similar with my macs? Recommendations?
I have two 1TB external WD hard drives currently formatted NTFS & containing backups from my pc, data, etc. If I'm understanding correctly I can usb hook these to my macs, drag the data from them to the mac & then open, edit, etc as usual. And once I've cleared the external drives off that I should re-formatt them Fat32 so they can be used as read/write external drives using for backing thing's up. I ordered iwork to be able to edit the word docs, excell etc that I have. Will my lightroom catalogs transfer well this way? What do you'll recommend for backing up? Is the Time thingy software (sorry I can't recall the name at the moment) that comes on the macs reliable & easy to use?
Hard Drive Defragmentation: With PC's I loved Diskeeper Pro which once set up auto ran & kept the hard drives defragmented beautifully allthough I've not found anyone mentioning this for macs. Will I need something similar with my macs? Recommendations?
I have two 1TB external WD hard drives currently formatted NTFS & containing backups from my pc, data, etc. If I'm understanding correctly I can usb hook these to my macs, drag the data from them to the mac & then open, edit, etc as usual. And once I've cleared the external drives off that I should re-formatt them Fat32 so they can be used as read/write external drives using for backing thing's up. I ordered iwork to be able to edit the word docs, excell etc that I have. Will my lightroom catalogs transfer well this way? What do you'll recommend for backing up? Is the Time thingy software (sorry I can't recall the name at the moment) that comes on the macs reliable & easy to use?
No need to worry about defragmentation. It is not an issue on modern Macs, except in some unusual situations that you likely won't encounter soon.
Your USB drives should work as you have planned. "Time Machine" is Apple's built-in software for backing up your computer. I think it works best if you use Time Machine for backing up everything except your photos. I use Aperture, which has its own "Vault" backup system - which I like. I'm guessing Lightroom has something similar. I just like keeping things "cleaner" by backing photos up to external drives that contain nothing but photos.
I would further recommend that you use an online service such as Carbonite, Mozy, BackBlaze, or SmugMug's file storage. The cost is modest compared to the cost of external storage, and the benefit is that your files are safe from house fire, etc. Initial backup takes a long time (mine was over a month), but then you are just uploading incremental additions - which typically are easily handled over-night.
iWork may be the biggest adjustment you make. As a long time user of Microsoft Office, I find many aspects of iWork (particularly Numbers) to be needlessly tedious, as if created by programmers who never used a spreadsheet. For this reason primarily, I run Windows in a VMware virtual machine (also for Quicken for Windows), which works well. An alternative is Office for Mac - but maybe you will be happy with iWork, so don't spend money on Microsoft software until you know (in fairness, Microsoft Office current versions are quite tedious also, when compared to their earlier versions).
Not being a LR user, I can't speak to how you transfer your catalogs.
Cindy
The DTP-94 we both have is supposed to be a very, very good colorimeter. However, the software options are getting pretty thin.
You may want to try out Coloreyes Display pro which has a 10 day free trial.
There is also a free program called DispcalGUI - http://hoech.net/dispcalGUI/
I found it tough to use but you can try to build profiles with both programs to start and see what you think.
Also, it would be very easy for you to use your current monitor as a secondary one. I physically flipped my 20" so it stands on its side and found that to be perfect for my web browser.
Since I routinely build my own computers and write my own code, including de-noising software and voice controlled captioning for pro sports events which is *very* useful, I guess I count as a geek. In any case I will wear the label proudly.
That said, I don't want to fiddle with my computer when I am on a shoot, as I have enough to do getting the shots edited, captioned and FTPd on deadline. I edit on a 27" Mac at home, and absolutely love it. And on the shoot, I used a Windows-based laptop that runs Hackintosh. I simply can't justify another $1000 for a Macbook Pro that does essentially the same things. Macs are really expensive, and in my experience no more reliable than PCs. We have about a dozen machines in our family--half Macs, half PCs--and the Macs are more troublesome. Further, they are much harder to fix when they go down.
Regarding image quality, my 27" Mac is spectacular; in fact, it is too good in some ways, as editing on that system always results in a disappointing rendering on almost any other monitor. Depending on the destination for any given shot, I often alter the editing to look good on a more modest monitor.
Calibration: It's hard to find good reviews info for specifically calibrating the iMac 27" but from what I can tell the $145 ColorMunki 'Display' version should suit us well. Allthough most referrels only refer to colormunki &/or the colormunki photo version. Have any of you used this? Thoughts? Recommendations?
I have a 27" iMac and the ColorMunki Display... they work great together. That being said, I found there was only a small difference between the out of the box color and the profile created by the ColorMunki. In fact, I just recalibrated last night and there was no discernable change since the last calibration.
I know you've already order the iMac, and maybe this was mentioned earlier, but the iMac screen is standard gamut screen. It was a point of debate for me (standard vs wide gamut) but in the end I decided the tradeoffs were not significant for me.
BTW... I bought mine with the standard 4GB of RAM and then bought a Crucial 16GB RAM upgrade kit on Amazon for $100 (as you probably know Apple wanted $600).
- Love not war guys! :-) I'm not looking back at what I had... I'm looking towards what I need now & 5 years from now as I want it to last as long as possible. My usage does include creating slideshow video & waiting on render time stinks + lots of photo editing so faster is better. I also practically live online... banking, shopping, email, surfing blogs, forums, facebook, twitter... no gaming but daily heavy use.
Budget: While I hate spending $$$$ where I don't need it, I do want it to work well 5+ years & would prefer spending the money now rather than a little bit here & there each year costing me significant time & more headaches. After sitting down with hubby last night & crunching #'s we figured allowing roughly $6,500 if the 'need' exists because this is a long term biz investment. This includes computer, software, monitor, everything. I'd prefer spending less obviously but am willing to go a bit more for 'need'. I'm still running CS2 so $1,200+ is going straight to adobe for CS5.5 Design Standard *sigh*. I have the most current lightroom so that's transferable. Still checking on other software needs. (Not including a laptop as we decided it's not an immediate need & I can wait a year+ for it.)
I spent some time on apple's live chat last night & the gal I chatted with talked me out of the MacPro tower saying the 27" iMac with a few minor custom upgrades would best serve my needs (although she did voice concern over screen reflections). I then specked it out with better upgrades & went to Dell's website to compare options & pricing & whoa... was I shocked to discover that a very similar Dell would cost me even more money. So glad I decided to consider Mac :-)
Basically the 27" iMac is coming down to the screen & if it really can be calibrated beautifully, accurately, affordably & easily. Does that exist? I could obviously use my current Monaco Optix but I really dislike that software... but then again maybe it'd function better on their monitor :-( What are you'll using &/or recommend?
Security: I asked her about anti-virus, malware, idenity stuff, etc & what they recommended & she said they don't. Period. Maybe I'm to pc minded but because I bank, shop & basically live on-line I'm used to spending lots of time keeping this stuff updated religiously. Do I really not have to do that with a mac? Is it truly possible I could spend that time elsewhere? The idea of it makes me giddy & very nervous all in one breathe. I did notice on apple's website that they automatically download security stuff to the mac's. Is that what it is, security software running in the background that I never have to tinker with? This is an area I don't wanna take a chance with and gain massive headaches down the road. What do you real world mac users use/recommend?
Just a link and bit of security information
i have a an older 27" imac intel dual core 3.33GHz, with 8GB RAM , 1 TB internal HDD, and 3 external usb drives for storage; and a simple macbook for tethered shooting when desired on location shoots where i set up a portable studio of sorts to get a larger image i can look at with customers, do all my main processing on the IMac, i calibrate both easily with spyder3 studio, still using photoshop cs4, with noise ninja & portrait professional studio plug ins, helicon focus, photomatix pro, processing images from my Canon 5D MkII and loving the Mac's. will not go back to owning a pc, though i have to deal with three pc's on my desk at work for 9 hours 5 days week. i also have the security paranoia remains from my pc days (bad Personal experience), and i added ( Intego Internet Security Barrier X6) to all our families Macs just to add an edge. (www.intego.com).
I'm going to tiptoe around all the other shouting that's been going on concerning malware, etc. for a couple of reasons. One, I hate theological disputes, and another- I am pretty far from being a computer expert.
That being said, I haven't had any issues with trojans or viruses.
As far as "lastability" goes- I just changed out the iMac I bought in early 2005, due to the fact that the hardware was failing. I ran it hard, pretty much 24-7, for the first three years, I upgraded from tiger to snow leopard without going through leopard, and generally heaped abuse on my computer.
My old iMac started having trouble with the graphics card. It's still usable, although it tends to have weird green lines when rendering images or video.
Given that I had used it for six years, I went ahead and bought a new one. Also, I upgraded to the 5D, and trying to simultaneously edit a dozen or so 21 megapixel photos brought my six year old processor to a crawl.
I have heard of folks having battery, heat, and lastability issues with the macbooks. But in my experience, and the experience of my associates, the iMac have some pretty good durability. I dropped something like $2500 on the new iMac, so if it lasts six years (like the last one did) that will break down to about $400 and change a year. given that my PC laptops last an average of 18 months, I think the iMac might be cheaper over the long run. Regardless, it works better than my PC laptops do, and it looks nice.
And I don't care if that generates howls of protests. I am not an IT guy. I am a photographer. My Mac sits in the middle of the living room, is my central entertainment center, and I am willing to pay for design.
If you go for the iMac, you won't have buyers remorse.
So I'm a little off topic, but you mentioned doing your finances on the computer.
Are these finances going to include finances for your business?
if so you may want to consider a second very basic computer to be used exclusively for finances. As I understand it, the law protects individuals from losses in their accounts due to hacking, forcing the bank to take the losses, but if it is a business, the business has to take the loss, unless they can demonstrate that they have taken due care.
Clark Howard gives some more info on his website HERE
It may or not be applicable to you, but might be worth considering if it is.
Good luck! I hope all works wonderfully for you in the mac world!
Making progress & so thankful for your alls help & advice!!! :-) While waiting for the iMac to get here (ships sometime between Jan 4th - 14th) I've finally got everything set up on this beautiful macbook that I'm absolutely loving so far & ready to transfer to the iMac when it gets here. Learning how to get around the mac, differences from pc, etc but so far it's mostly coming easier than others had lead me to believe it would be.
Format & Defrag: I'm currently formatting both of my 2TB external drives for back-up use. Because I'm still kinda paranoid I'd like to have these readable by both pc or mac so I'm formatting them exFat. I understand I won't need to defragment the drives that have the mac format... but will I occasionally need to defragment the external drives formatted as exFat or does that apply to all drives written on with the mac?
Back-Up: The macs come with time machine & can be used with my current external drives... but wondering from those of you backing up your macs... do you like time machine? Is it reliable? Or are there other mac specific back-up products you prefer &/or recommend? Time machine looks like it's probably pretty straight forward & simple are the backups readable in that if I need to get only 1 or 2 files off of it without reverting to a set date that I can? I'm also going to research online back up solutions & once I get that in order I'm thinking I'll probably only need to keep one on site external back-up + plus the online backup verses 2 externals rotated in & out for on site & off location. I sometimes get lazy about keeping both externals up to date every other week or so so in real life that might not prove to be so good in a disaster so something online more automatic would be much preferable ;-)
Music: Agghhhh... I was super bummed to transfer all my music & discover my mac can't read/play most of my music & that converting them to something mac can read is likely gonna be a chore & more $ :-( How have you'll dealt with this?
Comments
My understanding is that there are no known Mac viruses in the wild. Trojan Horses, yes. Viruses? no.
I'd be interested to know that I'm wrong with a specific example of a virus in the wild.
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There was another relatively big one that was found in pirated copies of iLife or iWork (can't remember which). The actual payload was minimal but it made the news for a while.
Here's an up to date list of malware on the Mac...23 listed to date: http://www.reedcorner.net/guides/macvirus/malware_catalog.php
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That's a list of Trojans, not viruses.
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Then again that company is selling anti virus software for Mac OS X through donations.
http://antivirus.about.com/od/macintoshresource/tp/macvirusfaqs.htm this author says that there is a need for anti virus software a Mac. A good read.
"You don't take a photograph, you make it." ~Ansel Adams
Phil
Too easy.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
That's a version of OSX that's 6 years old and a virus that only infects PowerPC computers. It can't spread over the internet, and...it's a Trojan Horse, not a virus. "For the worm to take effect, the user must manually invoke it by opening the tar file and then running the disguised executable within." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap_(computer_worm)
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http://www.iantivirus.com/threats/index/query/V/
Only one infects OS X (and only powerPC computers running OS X) - thus it does not appear that there are any viruses that infect a modern Mac running OS X.
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Yep, you're right. It cannot self-propagate and/or forward. Two AV software manufacturers were calling it a "virus", so I thought it was true. (Only in the eyes of AV marketeers, apparently.)
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Cindy, I just wanted to drop into say I intend to buy a "5-6 year machine" once the next gen Mac Pro comes out in 2012. While the iMac's are great, I'd consider them more of a "3 year machine" given the level of integration of all the components. I want a beast that can be beefed up even more over time as it will serve as the core of my storage and heavy lifting services. I'll be using an MBA of some form for travel and portability when needed.
...DO YOU WANT TO SMASH YOUR COMPUTER, INSTEAD OF FIXING IT?
I know that sounds totally random, but some of you probably already know what I'm getting at. What I mean is, quite simply, ...are you a computer geek, or not?
If you currently use a Windows computer and are considering a switch, here's the next question to ask yourself: Do you LIKE the idea of learning how to make your PC run smoothly? Do you like the idea of being a "computer whiz" who knows the difference between a CPU and a GPU?
...Because at the end of the day, Windows is WAY MORE VERSATILE. The number one complaint from my PC-loving gamer / photog friends is, that they feel too constrained, they can't tweak and poke deep into the system settings.
It's ironic, really, that die-hard PC builders are driven insane by the main thing that makes an Apple computer so desirable to others- It's simple, it's idiot-friendly.
Me? I have NO PROBLEM with Apple "insulting my intelligence" by taking away 75-90% of the versatility that a PC has, and just leaving me with a simple computer that runs smoothly and reliably for days, weeks, even months without ever having to shut down, let alone crash.
I'll be the first to confess, I hate computers. Sure, I'm a camera geek, but that doesn't make me a software programmer too. Far too often photographers feel guilty about being computer illiterate. But in my opinion, as long as you understand data safety and proper image backup, you can hate computers all you want!
...But I digress. Here's the LAST question you can ask yourself, before deciding to switch: Do you have anybody who can maintain your PC for you? I mean if you're perfectly happy with Windows, and you have a spouse or BFF who loves PC's and you see them regularly, then you could be good to go. Just tell this friend / relative that you'd like to spend $1-3K on a screaming fast PC, (watch their eyes light up as they take your credit card to Fry's, or log on to Newegg!) ...and then just let yourself be blown away by how INSANELY FAST (and smooth running?) your new computer is.
Okay, so if NONE of those options sound appealing to you at all, if you don't get excited at all by the thought of building your own machine from scratch, well, then yes it is time to head to the Apple store. Time to spend a little extra, and get an "idiot" friendly", sexy-looking computer. Your blood pressure will thank you no doubt. Your clients will think you're really successful, too!
...Is it really that simple? In a word, yes. To me, it just comes down to whether or not computer maintenance is "fun" for you.
Because let's face it, Windows is still a lot more buggy, or at least far more complex than, Apple OSX. Even if smooth-running Windows machines do exist, there is still a FAR greater chance that your store-bought PC, or one lone component from your home-built PC, will give you issues that drive you up the wall. For example, for the life of me I can't get Windows to KEEP the "eject media" icon (Explorer) in the system tray, no matter how many times I click "customize" on the system tray and tell it to "always show both icons and notifications". ..And that's just one random small thing off the top of my head.
My personal story is exactly as you may have guessed by now- I'm super geeky, but I still hate computers. Therefore, I do own an old Macbook and an old iMac; they just WORK. They run forever and don't give me more than 5-10% of the errors (and rage issues) that my PC gives me.
But on the other hand, I've gotten used to certain things about Windows that I really prefer as well, especially for workflow. I can arrange my explorer windows around with hotkeys. It's so much easier to see transfer speeds, etc. etc.
So, now I use both. My home computer is an iMac, the one I use for Netflix, Hulu, Pandora, foruming, shopping, facebooking, etc. What can I say, the dang thing just won't die, and it never gives me any trouble! Then, my work computer is an Asus gaming PC with an i7 core, dual hard drives, (SATA-6 SSD + 750 GB hybrid) 8 GB of RAM and 1.5 GB of graphics, etc. etc. It reacts instantly when I'm editing in Lightroom, and it can render 1:1 previews for a thousand 12 MP RAW files in less than an hour. It cost me only $1600, and a $2800 Macbook pro wouldn't even have dual hard drive bays. Another thing I like about my work PC is the incredible affordability of USB 3.0 storage. I picked up a 2.5" 1TB external drive the other day for $95! I'm sure Thunderbolt is faster, but the cost and available options (or lack theorof) is a deal-breaker.
So, this would be my advice to Cindy: If your old PC is just getting bogged down but you don't actually hate Windows itself; if you have someone in your life who loves PC's and would be happy to maintain one for you, then do consider it. HOWEVER, if you're in the crowd that is ready to smash your PC instead of fixin it, then yes, get an iMac.
Personally I don't really need 27"; I'm so used to the pixel density of my 17" laptop with full 1080p. I'd rather have a 21" iMac with a 2nd 21" display, if you ask me. Much more practical for multi-tasking. The only reason to get the 27" might be for the wow-factor, if the computer is in a studio where clients will see images on it. But I digress. Get an iMac, get the best CPU and the best graphics, but forget RAM and hard drive upgrades. You can save hundreds of dollars by installing your own secondary hard drive, and upgrading your own RAM. (For example Apple charges $600 for the 256 GB SSD in an iMac, but you can buy a good one for under $400. Although I suppose hard drives are a little bit more scary to self-install, so maybe it's worth the extra $250 if you're REALLY computer-phobic. Although, back to the whole BFF thing, I know plenty of people who would happily do the deed for a few bucks and let you keep most of that $250...
Anyways, yeah if you're going to get an Apple computer, get an iMac. It may be all-inclusive, but it is just as likely to last you ~5 years as a Mac Pro tower. If you ask me, Mac Pro towers are WAY overkill for a simple professional photography workflow. You just don't need that many cores, or that much RAM, etc. Maybe if you're planning WAY ahead, for Lightroom 4.0 and 5.0, and 40 megapixel cameras maybe? But honestly? I could still buy and re-sell an iMac every ~2-3 years instead, and still save thousands.
Personally, if I ever return to the Apple OS for my main workflow, it will be either when I upgrade to a new iMac, or when I build a "Hackintosh" machine that can run BOTH operating systems using the EFIX technique. Bottom line- I hate computers, that is certain, but I gotta get a job done and I've decided that I am in fact geeky enough (and currently broke enough) to enjoy both PC and Mac.
Take care,
=Matt=
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Only argument I'll put forth is that the 27 inch screen is preferable to dual ones. I use the 27" and have my old 20" in vertical orientation beside it.
For any photo work (especially Lightroom), I much prefer just working on a single (large)screen. I don't see any benefit from the second display options in LR.
I do use my old display (rotated) as a really nice web browser window. I suggest getting the 27" and setting up the old screen in a similar fashion.
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I'm with you on this. None of my Macs run Anti-Virus software.
Firewalls up, normal paranoia about clicking links in email (Never click on a link in email from your bank. Navigate there yourself), cautious with downloads, etc. but no AV required.
Since there are no Mac viruses in the wild, the AV software isn't protecting you from anything - just providing the hope that if a virus is discovered the AV provider will identify it and send you an update before _you_ pick up the virus. If the virus gets to you first, you're machine is infected.
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A comment on Macs and computer geekery: indeed, the hardware side of computer geekery is lost when you go Mac: you do not have the freedom to pop it open and replace stuff. I mean you can, but my personal experience is that you will only try it once...its frightening.
The nice thing is that you lose nothing at all by never venturing into the Unix Terminal. Most have no idea, and its best it stays that way. But for those that like to geek on software, Mac OSX is liberating.
I realize that the following content is not necessarily on topic for this posting, so I hope you don't mind.....
The point about being "geeky" has been mentioned in this discussion a number of times and in a way as if that is uncommon for Digital photographers. Photographers and videograhers are artists but I think it today's electronic environment they are also geeks in the electronic sense.
Look at how cameras and components have changed in just the last three years or so with the inclusion of video in DSLRs. And how it is evolved since the first digital cameras in 20 years. Absolutely amazing.
What distinguishes those that are really into the computer side of Digital photography and videography is that they can afford perhaps to make time to be heavily involved in that part of the equation. It takes time, a lot of time, to constantly research, learn and put into place new computer technology. And it is constantly changing, maybe that is why I love it.
It also takes a lot of time to research all the components for Digital photography and videography. There are a lot of products to research, integrate and learn how to use. And maybe that is partly why I love it.
So are Digital photographers and videographers "geeks", well from my perspective, "yes."
Phil
"You don't take a photograph, you make it." ~Ansel Adams
Phil
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Totally unrelated to the OPs discussion, but you really need to check out some dual-monitor setups and uses for Lightroom. I cannot imagine going back to one screen.
Edit: Here's a couple of links
http://www.digital-photography-school.com/expand-your-universe-in-lightroom-with-dual-monitors
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75IEPOf0nxw
http://tv.adobe.com/watch/the-complete-picture-with-julieanne-kost/using-a-secondary-display/
Do I enjoy the benefits of computers and a digital workflow? You bet! I wouldn't be shooting professionally if it weren't for digital and computers.
HOWEVER, I'm still not nearly enough of a computer geek to handle what is going on these days. I loathe computer issues enough that I value Apple's simplicity. And I would rather cast my eyes upon the REAL world, as opposed to just another electronic display. Until we see some HUGE breakthroughs in technology, staring at a computer screen all day is still going to be very bad for you.
I like the current level of blending between mechanical function and software. While there are plenty of new technological advances I'd love to see, there are plenty of down sides that I am NOT looking forward to.
I will ALWAYS have a special affinity for classic, mechanical cameras like my FM2. And I predict that amidst the new-age digital revolution of touchscreens and octo-CPU's, ...there will eventually be an Apple-like niche for simple, "oldschool" digital cameras. I look forward to that day.
=Matt=
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Because I am so sick to death of computers myself & just wanna use it to get my work done & get back out there shooting & I wanna give apple a chance to wow me, I've ordered the 27" iMac. Yes, the 27" will in part be for client 'wow' factor as they come here to preview images before seeing anything on-line or elsewhere. I considered using 2 monitors & someday maybe I will but for now I'm used to & happy with one as long as it's a really good one. We're also gonna go ahead and order a MacBook Pro 13" due to the fact that this 11 year old Dell is showing major signs of visiting a grave very soon & besides needing something in the field, hubby needs a computer because I won't be sharing the 27" ;-)
Calibration: It's hard to find good reviews info for specifically calibrating the iMac 27" but from what I can tell the $145 ColorMunki 'Display' version should suit us well. Allthough most referrels only refer to colormunki &/or the colormunki photo version. Have any of you used this? Thoughts? Recommendations?
Hard Drive Defragmentation: With PC's I loved Diskeeper Pro which once set up auto ran & kept the hard drives defragmented beautifully allthough I've not found anyone mentioning this for macs. Will I need something similar with my macs? Recommendations?
I have two 1TB external WD hard drives currently formatted NTFS & containing backups from my pc, data, etc. If I'm understanding correctly I can usb hook these to my macs, drag the data from them to the mac & then open, edit, etc as usual. And once I've cleared the external drives off that I should re-formatt them Fat32 so they can be used as read/write external drives using for backing thing's up. I ordered iwork to be able to edit the word docs, excell etc that I have. Will my lightroom catalogs transfer well this way? What do you'll recommend for backing up? Is the Time thingy software (sorry I can't recall the name at the moment) that comes on the macs reliable & easy to use?
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No need to worry about defragmentation. It is not an issue on modern Macs, except in some unusual situations that you likely won't encounter soon.
Your USB drives should work as you have planned. "Time Machine" is Apple's built-in software for backing up your computer. I think it works best if you use Time Machine for backing up everything except your photos. I use Aperture, which has its own "Vault" backup system - which I like. I'm guessing Lightroom has something similar. I just like keeping things "cleaner" by backing photos up to external drives that contain nothing but photos.
I would further recommend that you use an online service such as Carbonite, Mozy, BackBlaze, or SmugMug's file storage. The cost is modest compared to the cost of external storage, and the benefit is that your files are safe from house fire, etc. Initial backup takes a long time (mine was over a month), but then you are just uploading incremental additions - which typically are easily handled over-night.
iWork may be the biggest adjustment you make. As a long time user of Microsoft Office, I find many aspects of iWork (particularly Numbers) to be needlessly tedious, as if created by programmers who never used a spreadsheet. For this reason primarily, I run Windows in a VMware virtual machine (also for Quicken for Windows), which works well. An alternative is Office for Mac - but maybe you will be happy with iWork, so don't spend money on Microsoft software until you know (in fairness, Microsoft Office current versions are quite tedious also, when compared to their earlier versions).
Not being a LR user, I can't speak to how you transfer your catalogs.
Chooka chooka hoo la ley
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The DTP-94 we both have is supposed to be a very, very good colorimeter. However, the software options are getting pretty thin.
You may want to try out Coloreyes Display pro which has a 10 day free trial.
There is also a free program called DispcalGUI - http://hoech.net/dispcalGUI/
I found it tough to use but you can try to build profiles with both programs to start and see what you think.
Also, it would be very easy for you to use your current monitor as a secondary one. I physically flipped my 20" so it stands on its side and found that to be perfect for my web browser.
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That said, I don't want to fiddle with my computer when I am on a shoot, as I have enough to do getting the shots edited, captioned and FTPd on deadline. I edit on a 27" Mac at home, and absolutely love it. And on the shoot, I used a Windows-based laptop that runs Hackintosh. I simply can't justify another $1000 for a Macbook Pro that does essentially the same things. Macs are really expensive, and in my experience no more reliable than PCs. We have about a dozen machines in our family--half Macs, half PCs--and the Macs are more troublesome. Further, they are much harder to fix when they go down.
Regarding image quality, my 27" Mac is spectacular; in fact, it is too good in some ways, as editing on that system always results in a disappointing rendering on almost any other monitor. Depending on the destination for any given shot, I often alter the editing to look good on a more modest monitor.
I have a 27" iMac and the ColorMunki Display... they work great together. That being said, I found there was only a small difference between the out of the box color and the profile created by the ColorMunki. In fact, I just recalibrated last night and there was no discernable change since the last calibration.
I know you've already order the iMac, and maybe this was mentioned earlier, but the iMac screen is standard gamut screen. It was a point of debate for me (standard vs wide gamut) but in the end I decided the tradeoffs were not significant for me.
BTW... I bought mine with the standard 4GB of RAM and then bought a Crucial 16GB RAM upgrade kit on Amazon for $100 (as you probably know Apple wanted $600).
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Just a link and bit of security information
i have a an older 27" imac intel dual core 3.33GHz, with 8GB RAM , 1 TB internal HDD, and 3 external usb drives for storage; and a simple macbook for tethered shooting when desired on location shoots where i set up a portable studio of sorts to get a larger image i can look at with customers, do all my main processing on the IMac, i calibrate both easily with spyder3 studio, still using photoshop cs4, with noise ninja & portrait professional studio plug ins, helicon focus, photomatix pro, processing images from my Canon 5D MkII and loving the Mac's. will not go back to owning a pc, though i have to deal with three pc's on my desk at work for 9 hours 5 days week. i also have the security paranoia remains from my pc days (bad Personal experience), and i added ( Intego Internet Security Barrier X6) to all our families Macs just to add an edge. (www.intego.com).
That being said, I haven't had any issues with trojans or viruses.
As far as "lastability" goes- I just changed out the iMac I bought in early 2005, due to the fact that the hardware was failing. I ran it hard, pretty much 24-7, for the first three years, I upgraded from tiger to snow leopard without going through leopard, and generally heaped abuse on my computer.
My old iMac started having trouble with the graphics card. It's still usable, although it tends to have weird green lines when rendering images or video.
Given that I had used it for six years, I went ahead and bought a new one. Also, I upgraded to the 5D, and trying to simultaneously edit a dozen or so 21 megapixel photos brought my six year old processor to a crawl.
I have heard of folks having battery, heat, and lastability issues with the macbooks. But in my experience, and the experience of my associates, the iMac have some pretty good durability. I dropped something like $2500 on the new iMac, so if it lasts six years (like the last one did) that will break down to about $400 and change a year. given that my PC laptops last an average of 18 months, I think the iMac might be cheaper over the long run. Regardless, it works better than my PC laptops do, and it looks nice.
And I don't care if that generates howls of protests. I am not an IT guy. I am a photographer. My Mac sits in the middle of the living room, is my central entertainment center, and I am willing to pay for design.
If you go for the iMac, you won't have buyers remorse.
Are these finances going to include finances for your business?
if so you may want to consider a second very basic computer to be used exclusively for finances. As I understand it, the law protects individuals from losses in their accounts due to hacking, forcing the bank to take the losses, but if it is a business, the business has to take the loss, unless they can demonstrate that they have taken due care.
Clark Howard gives some more info on his website HERE
It may or not be applicable to you, but might be worth considering if it is.
Good luck! I hope all works wonderfully for you in the mac world!
Ben
Format & Defrag: I'm currently formatting both of my 2TB external drives for back-up use. Because I'm still kinda paranoid I'd like to have these readable by both pc or mac so I'm formatting them exFat. I understand I won't need to defragment the drives that have the mac format... but will I occasionally need to defragment the external drives formatted as exFat or does that apply to all drives written on with the mac?
Back-Up: The macs come with time machine & can be used with my current external drives... but wondering from those of you backing up your macs... do you like time machine? Is it reliable? Or are there other mac specific back-up products you prefer &/or recommend? Time machine looks like it's probably pretty straight forward & simple are the backups readable in that if I need to get only 1 or 2 files off of it without reverting to a set date that I can? I'm also going to research online back up solutions & once I get that in order I'm thinking I'll probably only need to keep one on site external back-up + plus the online backup verses 2 externals rotated in & out for on site & off location. I sometimes get lazy about keeping both externals up to date every other week or so so in real life that might not prove to be so good in a disaster so something online more automatic would be much preferable ;-)
Music: Agghhhh... I was super bummed to transfer all my music & discover my mac can't read/play most of my music & that converting them to something mac can read is likely gonna be a chore & more $ :-( How have you'll dealt with this?
Thanks to all & great big Hugs!!!