I had the ss at 320. So YES, with a D700, there is a black band if you strobe at 320! Other setting were for the most part 1/250, f3-3.5 and iso 500.
Well, color me chagrinned. I'm going to have to do some controlled tests. maybe the New Pocket Wizards take care of that. I know you are supposed to be able to do FP HSS with them.
John :
Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
Well, color me chagrinned. I'm going to have to do some controlled tests. maybe the New Pocket Wizards take care of that. I know you are supposed to be able to do FP HSS with them.
Oh no! It wasn't you at all! I meant to try out 320, but I just happened to have it set there for who knows what reason, I was late and flustered and just forgot. Kind of ironic though --got to test it out anyways! And I meant to save a picture but I deleted them all because in all my hurry I had left my 16G card at home, only had a 4G for two games of Raw files, and I was flipping out. Fortunately my husband came to the rescue with my 16G card. It was that kind of day!
I would say you might be able to go to ISO 400 @ 3.2 because those whites in the jersey are a wee bit hot yet. I turned off my little highlight warning long ago but turned it back on for BB for this reason...
ETA or just 400 @ current aperture. It's always a little play with this, play with that to get it 100%.
I would say you might be able to go to ISO 400 @ 3.2 because those whites in the jersey are a wee bit hot yet. I turned off my little highlight warning long ago but turned it back on for BB for this reason...
ETA or just 400 @ current aperture. It's always a little play with this, play with that to get it 100%.
I think you're right--I'll give that a shot. And I'll have to refigure this out all over again when I go to a new gym on Friday. Ah, the joys of photography, think on your feet, hope for the best!
I think you're right--I'll give that a shot. And I'll have to refigure this out all over again when I go to a new gym on Friday. Ah, the joys of photography, think on your feet, hope for the best!
That's what I like about it.. Keeps you on your toes and makes you think about what you are doing. So many times you get stuck into one thing.. this always keeps things, interesting.
That's what I like about it.. Keeps you on your toes and makes you think about what you are doing. So many times you get stuck into one thing.. this always keeps things, interesting.
And you really can't beat that feeling of success when you get it right (or the feeling of dread when it's a job and you get it wrong). It's kind of like a puzzle and if you put all the pieces together just right **voila!** but the real secret is, there are probably many combinations of the right pieces that will work, not just one. Creativity is your friend
I'm scratching my head about the banding issue you are getting at a 320ss. I shoot hockey with a D-700 and sb-800's at a 500ss in HSS and have not experienced any banding issues whatsoever.
Currently I am using the built in commander mode with the on camera unit set to no output. With the ambient of a ice arena I haven't had any non communication problems yet.
Indeed Icebear, a friend is using the new pocket wizzard for Nikon product and is most thrilled with the results of his hockey shooting with it. He tells me he has much more freedom as to where he places his strobes.
I've not shot basketball, so the way I am able to light hockey may not translate over, but I would think they comprise many of the same challenges.
I wish I had kept the pics with the banding. How I figured out it was the ss was I increased it to 500 and the banding (showing up on the right side, when shot vertical, of the frame) got wider the more I increased the ss. At 320 it was about 1/3 of the screen, at 500 it was 1/2. I haven't researched it, but will see what I can find out. Thx.
This may be a dumb question, but, did you set the 700 to shoot in high speed sync prior to increasing the shutter speed?
Not dumb at all, since I did NOT do that. I shot at that ss by accident. Perhaps that would have avoided the whole problem. But my understanding is that high speed sync mode actually creates a flutter of flash (instead of just one pop) to do the sync, killing the recycle time--do you think this is the case?
Not dumb at all, since I did NOT do that. I shot at that ss by accident. Perhaps that would have avoided the whole problem. But my understanding is that high speed sync mode actually creates a flutter of flash (instead of just one pop) to do the sync, killing the recycle time--do you think this is the case?
So you had your Flash sync speed ((Menu e1) set at 1/250, and your SS set at 1/320? That might do it. Try your Flash sync speed at 1/320.
I wouldn't worry about your recycle time, any more than you do normally with the SB600s. I really believe that at 1/320, the "flutter" you're worrying about is inconsequential. This is based on my experience though, and not any rigorous study. Grain of salt and all that.
John :
Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
So you had your Flash sync speed ((Menu e1) set at 1/250, and your SS set at 1/320? That might do it. Try your Flash sync speed at 1/320.
I wouldn't worry about your recycle time, any more than you do normally with the SB600s. I really believe that at 1/320, the "flutter" you're worrying about is inconsequential. This is based on my experience though, and not any rigorous study. Grain of salt and all that.
Will do! I am using PW's, but I'll set the sync speed on the 700 to 1/320 and give it a try tomorrow. I'll let you know, and thanks!
I know this is technical geeky talk, but I just ran into this nice little explanation of how flashes work. Check out the SB-900 and how a full power flash is different than a 1/4 power flash. This conincides with what I was talking about earlier in the thread of ghosting vs motion blur.
This section, while even though they are talking about the Einstein.. Is still VERY applicable to sports with a speedlight since they use the same IGBT cirtcuitry as the Einstein for flash duration/power..
The Einstein 640 and equivalent shutter speed
So the applicable information to take away from this article is this.. Don't just crank your speedlights to 1/2 power because you can. Set your lights to the speed you need.. If you are getting 1/250@f8 you need to come way down , which will help your effective shutter speed created by the duration of the flash.
I know this is technical geeky talk, but I just ran into this nice little explanation of how flashes work. Check out the SB-900 and how a full power flash is different than a 1/4 power flash. This conincides with what I was talking about earlier in the thread of ghosting vs motion blur.
This section, while even though they are talking about the Einstein.. Is still VERY applicable to sports with a speedlight since they use the same IGBT cirtcuitry as the Einstein for flash duration/power..
The Einstein 640 and equivalent shutter speed
So the applicable information to take away from this article is this.. Don't just crank your speedlights to 1/2 power because you can. Set your lights to the speed you need.. If you are getting 1/250@f8 you need to come way down , which will help your effective shutter speed created by the duration of the flash.
This was very interesting, especially the part about how the light tails off:
"This contributes to why almost all monolights in the 300-640ws range needed for strobed sports photography in small to medium size venues lack the action stopping capability needed to produce crisp pictures of athletes in motion: none offer particularly fast flash duration at full power, and only get worse as the power is turned down."
So what would your advice for tonight be....I'm going back to the gym that I shot the original set of pics at, where I obviously need more light. The court has no catwalk, and both ends of the court are basically the same--the bleachers end just about at the corner one side only, the teams sit on the other side on the floor, but there is a 15-20 foot space between the end of the court and the wall behind the basket--that's where I put my 13' stands to point down and angled to the top of the key about 10'+ back from the corners (on an angle out from the corners)--if you need a diagram I can draw you one.
The problem is, I can't put the stands any closer because someone is going to trip over them and there are little kids running all over on that "slower" side of the court, so I WAS going to try to power up to 1/2 to try and recreate what I got off the catwalk, being closer to the action by about 10'. Plus, I have no idea where to put my 3rd 600 this time. The ceilings are super high and there is no way to attach the 600 to anything that will bounce off the ceiling. If I had 2 600's I could do one on each side, but just having one attached to the bleachers on one side seems futile.
Ideas? Or must I use my own creativity to come up with a solution?
Thanks a whole helluvalot Jim.
You just cost me about $2500 for Einsteins and modifiers. I'd been waffling, but the Galbraith article, and some links in it, have pushed me over the edge.
OTOH, I didn't really need that D4 anyway.
John :
Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
Thanks a whole helluvalot Jim.
You just cost me about $2500 for Einsteins and modifiers. I'd been waffling, but the Galbraith article, and some links in it, have pushed me over the edge.
OTOH, I didn't really need that D4 anyway.
Thanks a whole helluvalot Jim.
You just cost me about $2500 for Einsteins and modifiers. I'd been waffling, but the Galbraith article, and some links in it, have pushed me over the edge.
OTOH, I didn't really need that D4 anyway.
hahahahahahha. You and me both my friend, you and me both!
Thanks a whole helluvalot Jim.
You just cost me about $2500 for Einsteins and modifiers. I'd been waffling, but the Galbraith article, and some links in it, have pushed me over the edge.
OTOH, I didn't really need that D4 anyway.
This was very interesting, especially the part about how the light tails off:
"This contributes to why almost all monolights in the 300-640ws range needed for strobed sports photography in small to medium size venues lack the action stopping capability needed to produce crisp pictures of athletes in motion: none offer particularly fast flash duration at full power, and only get worse as the power is turned down."
So what would your advice for tonight be....I'm going back to the gym that I shot the original set of pics at, where I obviously need more light. The court has no catwalk, and both ends of the court are basically the same--the bleachers end just about at the corner one side only, the teams sit on the other side on the floor, but there is a 15-20 foot space between the end of the court and the wall behind the basket--that's where I put my 13' stands to point down and angled to the top of the key about 10'+ back from the corners (on an angle out from the corners)--if you need a diagram I can draw you one.
The problem is, I can't put the stands any closer because someone is going to trip over them and there are little kids running all over on that "slower" side of the court, so I WAS going to try to power up to 1/2 to try and recreate what I got off the catwalk, being closer to the action by about 10'. Plus, I have no idea where to put my 3rd 600 this time. The ceilings are super high and there is no way to attach the 600 to anything that will bounce off the ceiling. If I had 2 600's I could do one on each side, but just having one attached to the bleachers on one side seems futile.
Ideas? Or must I use my own creativity to come up with a solution?
I know you said you put that one light in the catwalk full power. I don't remember if you said you were bouncing or not? If bouncing, try not to? Go 1/2 power and see what you can get. I just realized after that article that unless I'm spending that $2500 on Einsteins to light a court that my little flashes are just as good (for now) until I can afford the PCB lights.
Comments
Well, color me chagrinned. I'm going to have to do some controlled tests. maybe the New Pocket Wizards take care of that. I know you are supposed to be able to do FP HSS with them.
Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
Oh no! It wasn't you at all! I meant to try out 320, but I just happened to have it set there for who knows what reason, I was late and flustered and just forgot. Kind of ironic though
ETA or just 400 @ current aperture. It's always a little play with this, play with that to get it 100%.
I think you're right--I'll give that a shot. And I'll have to refigure this out all over again when I go to a new gym on Friday. Ah, the joys of photography, think on your feet, hope for the best!
That's what I like about it.. Keeps you on your toes and makes you think about what you are doing. So many times you get stuck into one thing.. this always keeps things, interesting.
And you really can't beat that feeling of success when you get it right (or the feeling of dread when it's a job and you get it wrong). It's kind of like a puzzle and if you put all the pieces together just right **voila!** but the real secret is, there are probably many combinations of the right pieces that will work, not just one. Creativity is your friend
Indeed Icebear, a friend is using the new pocket wizzard for Nikon product and is most thrilled with the results of his hockey shooting with it. He tells me he has much more freedom as to where he places his strobes.
I've not shot basketball, so the way I am able to light hockey may not translate over, but I would think they comprise many of the same challenges.
Not dumb at all, since I did NOT do that. I shot at that ss by accident. Perhaps that would have avoided the whole problem. But my understanding is that high speed sync mode actually creates a flutter of flash (instead of just one pop) to do the sync, killing the recycle time--do you think this is the case?
So you had your Flash sync speed ((Menu e1) set at 1/250, and your SS set at 1/320? That might do it. Try your Flash sync speed at 1/320.
I wouldn't worry about your recycle time, any more than you do normally with the SB600s. I really believe that at 1/320, the "flutter" you're worrying about is inconsequential. This is based on my experience though, and not any rigorous study. Grain of salt and all that.
Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
Will do! I am using PW's, but I'll set the sync speed on the 700 to 1/320 and give it a try tomorrow. I'll let you know, and thanks!
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10053-10715
This section, while even though they are talking about the Einstein.. Is still VERY applicable to sports with a speedlight since they use the same IGBT cirtcuitry as the Einstein for flash duration/power..
The Einstein 640 and equivalent shutter speed
So the applicable information to take away from this article is this.. Don't just crank your speedlights to 1/2 power because you can. Set your lights to the speed you need.. If you are getting 1/250@f8 you need to come way down , which will help your effective shutter speed created by the duration of the flash.
This was very interesting, especially the part about how the light tails off:
"This contributes to why almost all monolights in the 300-640ws range needed for strobed sports photography in small to medium size venues lack the action stopping capability needed to produce crisp pictures of athletes in motion: none offer particularly fast flash duration at full power, and only get worse as the power is turned down."
So what would your advice for tonight be....I'm going back to the gym that I shot the original set of pics at, where I obviously need more light. The court has no catwalk, and both ends of the court are basically the same--the bleachers end just about at the corner one side only, the teams sit on the other side on the floor, but there is a 15-20 foot space between the end of the court and the wall behind the basket--that's where I put my 13' stands to point down and angled to the top of the key about 10'+ back from the corners (on an angle out from the corners)--if you need a diagram I can draw you one.
The problem is, I can't put the stands any closer because someone is going to trip over them and there are little kids running all over on that "slower" side of the court, so I WAS going to try to power up to 1/2 to try and recreate what I got off the catwalk, being closer to the action by about 10'. Plus, I have no idea where to put my 3rd 600 this time. The ceilings are super high and there is no way to attach the 600 to anything that will bounce off the ceiling. If I had 2 600's I could do one on each side, but just having one attached to the bleachers on one side seems futile.
Ideas? Or must I use my own creativity to come up with a solution?
Thanks a whole helluvalot Jim.
You just cost me about $2500 for Einsteins and modifiers. I'd been waffling, but the Galbraith article, and some links in it, have pushed me over the edge.
OTOH, I didn't really need that D4 anyway.
Natural selection is responsible for every living thing that exists.
D3s, D500, D5300, and way more glass than the wife knows about.
Yeah, forgot to add that into my post too
hahahahahahha. You and me both my friend, you and me both!
I know you said you put that one light in the catwalk full power. I don't remember if you said you were bouncing or not? If bouncing, try not to? Go 1/2 power and see what you can get. I just realized after that article that unless I'm spending that $2500 on Einsteins to light a court that my little flashes are just as good (for now) until I can afford the PCB lights.