Camera Raw

DogdotsDogdots Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
edited March 28, 2012 in Finishing School
I was opening up photos into Camera Raw 6.6 and one opened up looking pretty strange. The jpeg is fine, but not the RAW file. Any reason this would happen? Raw files from the photos before and after this image are fine.

i-WMWtqm2-XL.jpg
Mary
www.Dogdotsphotography.com
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Comments

  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,938 moderator
    edited March 14, 2012
    Maybe the XML file is borked? Can you remove it and start over?
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • DogdotsDogdots Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited March 14, 2012
    ian408 wrote: »
    Maybe the XML file is borked? Can you remove it and start over?

    Sorry .. I know nothing about XML files. How does one remove and start over. I'm happy to learn :D
    Mary
    www.Dogdotsphotography.com
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,938 moderator
    edited March 14, 2012
    Do you convert your files to DNG files (from CR2)? If you look in the directory that your pictures live in, you'll see a filename with a CR2 extension, a DNG extension and one called filename.XML. The XML files contain any changes you might have made in the past--if you get rid of that file, you should be left with the original and no changes.
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • arodneyarodney Registered Users Posts: 2,005 Major grins
    edited March 14, 2012
    All raws or just this one? Can you upload so others could try on their systems? What if you simply Reset (alt/option key to toggle Cancel to Reset)?
    Andrew Rodney
    Author "Color Management for Photographers"
    http://www.digitaldog.net/
  • DogdotsDogdots Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited March 14, 2012
    ian408 wrote: »
    Do you convert your files to DNG files (from CR2)? If you look in the directory that your pictures live in, you'll see a filename with a CR2 extension, a DNG extension and one called filename.XML. The XML files contain any changes you might have made in the past--if you get rid of that file, you should be left with the original and no changes.

    I just took a look at how I'm downloading photos. I've attached a photo of what my downloader looks like. What do you mean 'directory that my photos live in'?

    i-LDWd2J8-XL.jpg
    Mary
    www.Dogdotsphotography.com
  • DogdotsDogdots Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited March 14, 2012
    arodney wrote: »
    All raws or just this one? Can you upload so others could try on their systems? What if you simply Reset (alt/option key to toggle Cancel to Reset)?

    Only this one. DNG files on both previous and next to this one are fine. I'm not one that looks at all my RAW files. I look at the attached jpegs to decide if I open a RAW. So this could of happened before, but I've just never opened one.

    When and on what would I do the reset? Please forgive me .. I'm not very smart in this kind of thing.
    Mary
    www.Dogdotsphotography.com
  • PeanoPeano Registered Users Posts: 268 Major grins
    edited March 14, 2012
    Dogdots wrote: »
    I look at the attached jpegs to decide if I open a RAW.

    That's really not a good strategy. Suppose you see a jpeg that has a bunch of blown highlights or
    blocked shadows. You assume the shot is ruined and move along. One of the big advantages of raw is
    that you can often recover highlight and shadow details that are lost in a jpeg.

    I'd suggest you do a little serious reading about raw format. Learn how it works and why it is superior to
    jpeg. If you don't know what an XML file is, you're behind the learning curve. Get thee to the books!!

    wings.gif
    Peano
    RadiantPics
  • DogdotsDogdots Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited March 14, 2012
    Peano wrote: »
    That's really not a good strategy. Suppose you see a jpeg that has a bunch of blown highlights or
    blocked shadows. You assume the shot is ruined and move along. One of the big advantages of raw is
    that you can often recover highlight and shadow details that are lost in a jpeg.

    I'd suggest you do a little serious reading about raw format. Learn how it works and why it is superior to
    jpeg. If you don't know what an XML file is, you're behind the learning curve. Get thee to the books!!

    wings.gif

    Yes ... I do have a lot to learn. I will do some reading up on XML files :D

    I have done editing in Camera Raw, but only when I see something in the jpeg I know I'll have a hard time correcting in CS5.

    Whom ever moved this to Finishing School .. thank you thumb.gif
    Mary
    www.Dogdotsphotography.com
  • arodneyarodney Registered Users Posts: 2,005 Major grins
    edited March 15, 2012
    Dogdots wrote: »
    When and on what would I do the reset? Please forgive me .. I'm not very smart in this kind of thing.

    Open in camera raw and type the alt (option) key and click Reset button (was Cancel).
    Andrew Rodney
    Author "Color Management for Photographers"
    http://www.digitaldog.net/
  • basfltbasflt Registered Users Posts: 1,882 Major grins
    edited March 15, 2012
    can be done easier
    simply remove the check-mask at "preview" at top of screen
    this shows the real DNG , without any change done

    resetting will show the image with changes applied => default settings are also changes

    put the check-mark back and do some editing
    10 to 1 , that you can correct it
    if not,
    another idea would be to open the CR2 , instead of the converted DNG
    [ me , i never convert to DNG ( useless IMO ) , just open the CR2 ( which is the actual RAW ) directly in ACR ]
    Bas

    /ɯoɔ˙ƃnɯƃnɯs˙ʇlɟsɐq//:dʇʇɥ
  • DogdotsDogdots Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited March 17, 2012
    I apologize for not responding quicker. I had surgery so my mind isn't very clear. I hope to try out what you've suggested in the next couple days. I will let you know what happens then.

    Thank you all for your help :D
    Mary
    www.Dogdotsphotography.com
  • ian408ian408 Administrators Posts: 21,938 moderator
    edited March 17, 2012
    Hi Mary! Hope your surgery went well and that you're on the road to recovery.
    Moderator Journeys/Sports/Big Picture :: Need some help with dgrin?
  • ThatCanonGuyThatCanonGuy Registered Users Posts: 1,778 Major grins
    edited March 17, 2012
    On Windows, if you click Start > My Computer, a window opens. Open EOS Digital, go to the folder your images are in, and sort by file type. You can see the XMP's there. Each XMP has the same filename as the photo it corresponds with. Delete the XMP that hasthe same filename as the bad image.
  • DogdotsDogdots Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited March 25, 2012
    Hello ...

    My world has now cleared of meds and I was able to try all the suggestions today. Sadly either I'm doing something wrong .. which is very possible ... or they don't work.

    What I did do is open my Adobe Bride and above the RAW file was a funky looking circle with arrow heads in it. I right clicked on that and then on Develop settings. From there I clicked on Camera Raw Defaults :D:D:D It worked thumb.gif

    I tried finding EOS Digital and I can only find and EOS Utility. This is a dumb question, but where is the EOS Digital?

    I know there is a file somewhere attached to my DNG's, but I can't get to them. If my understanding is correct on the DNG's the file is in the RAW file itself and not visible .. could be way off on that tho.

    That's ok ... I learned a very valuable lesson. Don't download in DNG's. I use to always down load in CR2's, but when I read Scott Kelby's CS3 book in the set up for downloading it said to do DNG's .. Chapter 1, page 5.

    I'm must say I'm confused on the DNG's vs CR2's.

    Thank-you everyone for taking time to help me out on this. Sorry I've not been prompt in my attempts to try all your suggestions. I just wanted to make sure my mind was clear before doing so.

    Next learning process .. bending my toe so I can walk right again :D

    Thanks!!!!
    Mary
    www.Dogdotsphotography.com
  • arodneyarodney Registered Users Posts: 2,005 Major grins
    edited March 25, 2012
    Dogdots wrote: »
    That's ok ... I learned a very valuable lesson. Don't download in DNG's. I use to always down load in CR2's, but when I read Scott Kelby's CS3 book in the set up for downloading it said to do DNG's .. Chapter 1, page 5.

    I'm must say I'm confused on the DNG's vs CR2's.

    It isn't DNG that is the issue. Not sure what you're doing wrong but it isn't due to conversion to DNG.
    Andrew Rodney
    Author "Color Management for Photographers"
    http://www.digitaldog.net/
  • DogdotsDogdots Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited March 25, 2012
    arodney wrote: »
    It isn't DNG that is the issue. Not sure what you're doing wrong but it isn't due to conversion to DNG.

    I don't know what I did wrong either. I did the ALT key in Camera Raw and the reset, but there was no change to the photo. I even then opened it in CS5 with no changes showing up. I will remember this and try it if it ever happens again. Sure hope not tho.

    Thanks for your help ... it was greatly appreciated :D
    Mary
    www.Dogdotsphotography.com
  • basfltbasflt Registered Users Posts: 1,882 Major grins
    edited March 26, 2012
    my 2 cents
    just copy the CR2 from card to PC , and work on those
    the only benefit of converting to DNG is smaller file size , preserve disk space , nothing else
    Bas

    /ɯoɔ˙ƃnɯƃnɯs˙ʇlɟsɐq//:dʇʇɥ
  • DogdotsDogdots Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited March 26, 2012
    basflt wrote: »
    my 2 cents
    just copy the CR2 from card to PC , and work on those
    the only benefit of converting to DNG is smaller file size , preserve disk space , nothing else

    I'll do that from now on. Question tho ... if DNG's are smaller does that mean they don't hold as much info as an CR2? In other words I could be collecting less data when taking a photo?
    Mary
    www.Dogdotsphotography.com
  • arodneyarodney Registered Users Posts: 2,005 Major grins
    edited March 26, 2012
    Dogdots wrote: »
    I'll do that from now on. Question tho ... if DNG's are smaller does that mean they don't hold as much info as an CR2? In other words I could be collecting less data when taking a photo?

    They are smaller because the use a better lossless compression. They hold all your metadata edits, XMP, a very nice JPEG preview (you could extract and print from if you had to), the ability to show the current rendering to any software that can view that JPEG, the ability to save DNG Profiles you use within the container, a new Fast Load preview which speeds up viewing the data as you edit. IOW, there are lots of benefits to using DNG besides smaller size!
    Andrew Rodney
    Author "Color Management for Photographers"
    http://www.digitaldog.net/
  • DogdotsDogdots Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited March 26, 2012
    arodney wrote: »
    They are smaller because the use a better lossless compression. They hold all your metadata edits, XMP, a very nice JPEG preview (you could extract and print from if you had to), the ability to show the current rendering to any software that can view that JPEG, the ability to save DNG Profiles you use within the container, a new Fast Load preview which speeds up viewing the data as you edit. IOW, there are lots of benefits to using DNG besides smaller size!

    Thank you for this information. I really liked using the DNG vs the CR2 because the file with the CR2 would sometimes get deleted when I was getting rid of the dumpers.
    Mary
    www.Dogdotsphotography.com
  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited March 27, 2012
    Coming in late on this: when doing significant editing, is there any benefit to .tif vs .dng? I've always let PS edit my LR files as tiffs - should I be using DNG instead? Fwiw, if I need to take them into Photoshop they often get pretty heavily thrown around, so maximum quality in the original file is beneficial. thumb.gif
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  • arodneyarodney Registered Users Posts: 2,005 Major grins
    edited March 27, 2012
    divamum wrote: »
    Coming in late on this: when doing significant editing, is there any benefit to .tif vs .dng? I've always let PS edit my LR files as tiffs - should I be using DNG instead?

    TIFF is an output (rendered) format, DNG a raw format. You can save a rendered image as a DNG but there is no point in doing so. DNG is really a cousin of TIFF.

    Simple: DNG for raw data. TIFF for rendered data. Skip PSD (brings nothing to the party unless you need to support Duotones). Maybe PSB for images beyond 30,000 pixels.
    Andrew Rodney
    Author "Color Management for Photographers"
    http://www.digitaldog.net/
  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited March 27, 2012
    Thanks!

    To clarify a useable workflow then: let LR export into PS as a dng when I select the "edit in..." option (I have CS3, so am several camera versions behind and can't access cr2s directly) , but then save the final PS'd file as a .tiff? Or am I misunderstanding (or adding an unecessary conversion?)

    Also, do DNG's save layers, or only flattened images?
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  • arodneyarodney Registered Users Posts: 2,005 Major grins
    edited March 27, 2012
    When you Edit in Photoshop, there is no file format until you save from PS (so if done there, save a TIFF). If you export out of LR, again, save out a TIFF. DNG is for conversion upon (ideally) import into LR.
    Andrew Rodney
    Author "Color Management for Photographers"
    http://www.digitaldog.net/
  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited March 27, 2012
    Ok, that makes sense now. Thanks!
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  • DogdotsDogdots Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited March 27, 2012
    What's the difference in saving as a TIFF vs PSD?
    Mary
    www.Dogdotsphotography.com
  • cmasoncmason Registered Users Posts: 2,506 Major grins
    edited March 27, 2012
    Dogdots wrote: »
    What's the difference in saving as a TIFF vs PSD?

    A TIFF is an image file. PSD is PhotoShop Document, the working file format for Photoshop. With a PSD, you can preserve your layers, edit history etc, while a TIFF is an image only, think of it as a step beyond a flattened PSD.
    Photos
  • DogdotsDogdots Registered Users Posts: 8,795 Major grins
    edited March 27, 2012
    cmason wrote: »
    A TIFF is an image file. PSD is PhotoShop Document, the working file format for Photoshop. With a PSD, you can preserve your layers, edit history etc, while a TIFF is an image only, think of it as a step beyond a flattened PSD.

    Good info :) Another question tho ... if you save your edited work in PSD which I do .. why would I need to save a TIFF?
    Mary
    www.Dogdotsphotography.com
  • arodneyarodney Registered Users Posts: 2,005 Major grins
    edited March 27, 2012
    You can keep the documents as PSDs. But TIFF is a more open format, supported by more products. TIFF is publicly documented, PSD is not.
    Andrew Rodney
    Author "Color Management for Photographers"
    http://www.digitaldog.net/
  • cmasoncmason Registered Users Posts: 2,506 Major grins
    edited March 27, 2012
    Dogdots wrote: »
    Good info :) Another question tho ... if you save your edited work in PSD which I do .. why would I need to save a TIFF?

    TIFF is useful outside of Photoshop, as many many apps support it. (Like Powerpoint, Word, every illustration program, etc etc). PSD is limited to Photoshop, Photoshop Elements, Lightroom, and a few Photoshop competitors that are somewhat compatible with it.
    Photos
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