5D mk III back from CPS - some good/some bad

eoren1

So I sent my brand new Canon 5D mk III to CPS after noticing several dust spots within the first 12 hours of shooting (that I could not dislodge with auto-clean or a Rocket Blower). I had also noted issues with AF when in AI servo mode and asked them to evaluate this. I sent in my 70-200/4 IS lens with it as I had the most severe AF issues with that lens.

The good:
Sent out on Monday AM and received it back Wednesday at 2:30pm - incredibly fast service :thumb
AF is worlds better :thumb :thumb

The bad:
Sensor is still dirty...wtf :scratch
And my previously unmarred and beautiful 70-200 lens has a scratch extending from the base to the zoom ring. Looks like someone took a sharp knife to the bubble wrap and cut into the barrel cry:cry

Just got off the phone with CPS who were apologetic but not all that helpful otherwise. I know have to send the camera and lens back to them and hope that they properly fix things this time. If they don't offer some sort of compensation for this, I'll be royally pissed off. A complementary extra year of CPS gold membership would seem to be the least that they could do for f'ing up a $1000 lens. Just glad I took photos of the camera and lens before I sent them (including shots of them in bubble wrap).

I was ready to sing the praises of CPS but in a matter of one hour I went from being thrilled with the AF (and ok with having to send it in once) to being really mad at the whole affair.

Just venting...

mr peas

There's a good chance this is just one of those rare occurrences. I would demand proper compensation though, especially for the productivity lost during which you don't have your tools. A year of CPS gold as recompense would be cheap or basically free for them, but it would only be to your advantage if they repaired or replaced the lens the scratched up. But that turn-around time is really impressive, I wouldn't be surprised if you get everything you want in recompense, I'd think Canon would be obliged to do so.

eoren1

Just sent a long letter to the contact person at the NJ service center. I'm planning to send it back on Tuesday after using it this weekend. Just really pissed off - at having to send it again (and be without the camera) as well as the damage to a previously perfect lens.
So glad I thought to take some quick snaps of the lens as I packaged it up.

Before


After

Nikolai

Ouch... So sorry... I think you'r entitled to the compensation + free fix (or a new lens).

David_S85

Oh wow, that sucks, big time. I hope Canon gets word of this thread and acts accordingly. I am holding off on my CPS gold membership until you get a resolve and compensation. For the record, my brand new 5D3 has some very nasty dust spots on the sensor too, and trying to blow them off with my huge Giottos rocket blower has done nothing.

eoren1

Thanks David.
Can't believe you have dust spots too - what are they doing, building these in a factory with the windows open?

Also, if anyone has a 70-200/4 IS, can you please confirm something for me? I had noticed that my zoom ring felt much looser when I got it back (no zoom creep, just really loose). However, yesterday, I gently shook the lens and felt something 'moving' inside. If I had to imagine, it was as if the IS mechanism or some other large part was 'sloshing around' in there with very gentle movement. I can't remember ever feeling that in the lens before but have no way of confirming that that was a 'normal' finding on the lens.

Here is the full letter sent to the manager of CPS NJ:

Dear Mr. DiMauro,
I felt the need to write you and express my disappointment with the service my new camera and lens have received at your facility. I purchased and received the Canon 5D mk III on Tuesday May 15th as an upgrade from my Canon 50D. I was excited about this camera and thrilled with the first images I took. When I returned home from a shoot on Wednesday morning, I noted dust spots at f/16-22 (with some even visible at f/11). I confirmed the dust spots by shooting a blue sky and found that neither the auto sensor clean nor using a Rocket Blower was able to dislodge them.

I contacted CPS and was offered free shipping to the nearest service center for a sensor cleaning with sincere apologies for this happening with a brand new camera. I had plans to use the camera for my son's football game over the weekend so the camera was only slated to go out on Monday morning. In the interim, I found there were issues with the auto focus module in AI servo mode. I tried numerous combinations of 'cases' and settings but could not achieve reliable focus. As I did most of my testing with my Canon 70-200/4 IS lens, I thought it worthwhile to send this in and confirm there was not an issue with the lens rather than the body.

I carefully packaged the camera body and lens - each in two layers of large bubble wrap and then covered both with an additional 3 layers of bubbles on all sides of the box. The package arrived in the service center on Tuesday and, amazingly enough, was back in my hands today, May 24th at 3pm. I was very impressed by the quick turnaround and even more so with the AF abilities of the camera. I was again using the 70-200 and it seemed significantly better at focusing using AI servo mode.

On a whim, I decided to shoot the sky before uploading photos and was dismayed to find the very same dust spots still present on the sensor!

Then my eyes fell upon the lens barrel where a new scratch had appeared. At first, I couldn't believe my eyes and immediately checked photos I took of the lens before shipping and confirmed the flawless barrel. It looked as if someone who unboxed the lens took a sharp knife to get through the bubble wrap and managed to cut into the lens barrel.

I called CPS immediately and was told they would send another prepaid package slip. I have to tell you that for someone who just spent $4300 on this camera (purchased the kit version), I am beyond disappointed with my first week of ownership. I cannot understand how the camera's sensor could arrive dirty from the factory and even less so how it arrived in the same condition after being sent to CPS for cleaning. Not only do I now have the privilege of sending the camera in again for the same reason but I now have damage to a previously unmarred $1000 lens.

The camera body and lens will be returning to your service center on Tuesday or Wednesday of next week (I again have activities to photograph this weekend). I expect the highest level of attention and care be taken with both and that each will be returned to me in like-new condition.

Sincerely,

Eyal Oren
CPS Gold #######

His reply:
Hi

Sorry for the condition you received the equipment back in. We will replace the parts that are scratched and clean the sensor. Our goal is to provide fast and quality service. This email will be forwarded to my manager.

Sincerely

Nikolai

Awesome letter, Eyal! bow

Quincy T

They sure do sound concerned in their reply...

I hope everything works out, bud. That's really just unacceptable about the scratch on the lens.

Ostravaczech

Hope you get it fixed / replaced to your satisfaction.
I did check the sensor on my 5DMIII and found just one or two dust spots. I ran the "dust delete data" and it got removed. I am always hesitant to use dust blower in fear of actually making things worse. I have had 7D for over 2 years and never seemed to have problems with dust. I got my 5DMIII a couple of weeks ago.....

NeilL

Eyal, my copy is UV0403. Both rings turn smoothly with a nice feel of stability/inertia. When I gently shake it with my ear up close I *hear* (don't feel) a faint but definite rattling, which sounds like some small mechanism is moving, only so long as the shaking accelerates it momentarily. HTH

Neil

insanefred

Can you convert into a beer mug now?

eoren1

Thanks Neil - it does. The zoom is definitely looser than it was. Much more a 'large loose' piece in there than just a faint rattle. All boxed up and ready to ship out today. We'll see how this round goes...

NeilL

eoren1 wrote: »

Thanks Neil - it does. The zoom is definitely looser than it was. Much more a 'large loose' piece in there than just a faint rattle. All boxed up and ready to ship out today. We'll see how this round goes...

Here's hoping for the best outcome for you!

Neil

eoren1

The saga continues...
Sent in the 5D and 70-200 on Tuesday AM by next day air (Monday was Memorial Day). Called them Thursday to check status and was informed camera was done (it better have been, how long does a sensor cleaning take ) but that they were waiting on parts for the 70-200.

Not sure why no one thought I might want the camera back ASAP but I promptly requested they send it to me separately. I was told it was going out that night. Turns out it just got picked up an hour ago (it's now Friday). And the promise that it would be here no later than Saturday? Apparently that note in the CPS system was not seen in NJ and the camera is slated to arrive Monday.

That means in my first 21 days of ownership, Canon would have had the camera more days than I will. :bash Oh and my desire to shoot my kid's post season game of flag football with the 5D's fantastic AF system... :cry

This camera better be in absolutely perfect condition or heads will roll...

eoren1

The camera is back and I have a new question.

Here's a summary of what has been found/done to date:
1. Due to 'other cause' in af assembly causing inaccurate auto focus from time to time. Electrical adjustments were carried out in the AF assembly. Product functions were confirmed.
2. Due to 'other cause' in imaging sensor assembly, dust particles were found in the part. Imaging sensor assembly was cleaned. Product functions were confirmed. Replaced screen.

So the camera has now been found to have two major problems and both have been corrected. But I can't but feel like this camera is a lemon having so many problems in the first three weeks of ownership. I'm within the 45 day replacement window so, the question is, do I:

1. Call it a day, consider the camera now perfect as it has been closely inspected (twice) and go on shooting
2. Feel that the camera never should have had these problems in the first place and is essentially a 'refurb' now so go ahead and get a replacement from place of purchase.

Appreciate your thoughts.

Sam

I hope all works out for you. I just wanted to add a comment with regard to sensor dust. I have read many complaints about sending out cameras to have the sensor cleaned only to receive it back with a dirty sensor.

I do my own cleaning and having a sensor loop allows me to see any dust and smears clearly and immediately. No matter how clean the camera is when leaving the manufacturer or after cleaning once in use it's exposed to all kinds of dust and foreign materials. Not all of it ends up on the sensor. Some is lodged in the nooks and crannies of the cameras interior. While in transport it's not hard to dislodge these particles and have them move around inside the camera, eventually landing on the sensor.

So no matter how well the cleaning is done you can receive your camera with dust on the sensor. Grease and smears are of course a different matter.

Sam

eoren1

Thanks Sam. The repair info sounds like they had to remove the AA filter to get at the debris. Makes me nervous about the original assembly and what might have happened to the sensor if dirt was on it rather than the typical spot on the screen.

So would you keep the body or replace it?

Sam

eoren1 wrote: »

Thanks Sam. The repair info sounds like they had to remove the AA filter to get at the debris. Makes me nervous about the original assembly and what might have happened to the sensor if dirt was on it rather than the typical spot on the screen.

So would you keep the body or replace it?

Tough question. If possible I think at this point I would prefer getting a new body if only for my piece of mind. It's not like these are disposable cameras. While issues do happen I think my mental outlook and piece of mind would be much improved with a new body.

That said the camera could be good or better than new.

Sam

eoren1

Hey Sam
Thanks for chiming in again.
Turns out I had a chance to speak to the manager at CPS-New Jersey this afternoon. He was great about explaining exactly what was found and done at each visit and relayed that the tech who handled the camera had over 25 years experience. The focus screen was replaced in an effort to dot every i and cross every t as he put it. The dust was never on the sensor - only on the AA filter. I put the question of replacement to him and, while he obviously has a bias, seemed genuine when saying the camera should be absolutely perfect now.
I plan on getting the Focal microAF program now that I have the camera in-hand. The pro version has a AF consistency test as well as dust test. Will run the camera through those and see how it does. If it performs as expected, I plan on keeping it.

NeilL

eoren1 wrote: »

Hey Sam
Thanks for chiming in again.
Turns out I had a chance to speak to the manager at CPS-New Jersey this afternoon. He was great about explaining exactly what was found and done at each visit and relayed that the tech who handled the camera had over 25 years experience. The focus screen was replaced in an effort to dot every i and cross every t as he put it. The dust was never on the sensor - only on the AA filter. I put the question of replacement to him and, while he obviously has a bias, seemed genuine when saying the camera should be absolutely perfect now.
I plan on getting the Focal microAF program now that I have the camera in-hand. The pro version has a AF consistency test as well as dust test. Will run the camera through those and see how it does. If it performs as expected, I plan on keeping it.

Yep, right track I reckon. Agree with Sam too. All else being equal.

Neil

jmphotocraft

Your camera is probably in better shape now than someone's who isn't paying as close attention as you are. On the other hand if you can't sleep at night Canon will still be able to sell it as a refurb and probably break even on it, so no need to worry about them either. But then you run the risk of another round of this business. Personally I'd keep it.

I wouldn't waste any money on any 3rd party MFA tool. You can DIY with EOS Utility and the camera tethered. Here are good instructions: http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php/58042-AF-microadjustment-tricks. You know those BIF nuts love their AF.

Sam

eoren1 wrote: »

Hey Sam
Thanks for chiming in again.
Turns out I had a chance to speak to the manager at CPS-New Jersey this afternoon. He was great about explaining exactly what was found and done at each visit and relayed that the tech who handled the camera had over 25 years experience. The focus screen was replaced in an effort to dot every i and cross every t as he put it. The dust was never on the sensor - only on the AA filter. I put the question of replacement to him and, while he obviously has a bias, seemed genuine when saying the camera should be absolutely perfect now.
I plan on getting the Focal microAF program now that I have the camera in-hand. The pro version has a AF consistency test as well as dust test. Will run the camera through those and see how it does. If it performs as expected, I plan on keeping it.

I don't know anything about dust test software, but I will highly recommend purchasing a sensor loop. You will quickly and easily see every speck on the sensor or hopefully absence thereof.

Sam

Dan7312

Only you can decide if the camera is perfect as is. But does seem unlikely that a camera fresh off the assembly line could be better adjusted than what you have now, given that it's been given the personal attention of a camera technician with 25yr experience.

So, given that you feel the camera is perfect as is you should keep it because

1. the fact that it was sent back to Canon twice right out of the box will not affect it's resale price if you wish to sell it a few years from now.

2. Do you want to go through this again (think of the value of your time or the images you are missing) if the replacement "new" camera has issues too?

3. If you really feel that after two tries CPS was not able to get one of their flagship cameras up to spec' maybe it's time to switch to Nikon


[QUOTE=eoren1;1784257
1. Call it a day, consider the camera now perfect as it has been closely inspected (twice) and go on shooting
2. Feel that the camera never should have had these problems in the first place and is essentially a 'refurb' now so go ahead and get a replacement from place of purchase.

Appreciate your thoughts.[/QUOTE]

eoren1

Thanks for weighing in everyone.
That post was written after a quick run home at lunch to check on the camera and finding that more ended up being done than I had anticipated.
If I had just seen 'sensor cleaned' (as expected), I would have dropped the issue at that point.
Seeing mention of the replaced screen made me wonder where they had found dust and/or more issues once opened.
Having spoken with the manager there who translated 'canon-speak', I know understand that the camera got a very thorough inspection and trust that it will work as expected. Once the rain lets up, I'll hopefully be able to put it through its paces and be confident in the results.

puzzledpaul

Sam wrote: »

I don't know anything about dust test software, but I will highly recommend purchasing a sensor loop. You will quickly and easily see every speck on the sensor or hopefully absence thereof.

Sam

I also find the usual routine of taking a pic (RAW) of the sky, stopped down etc ... and then opening same in DPP, tweaking the histogram ... to be pretty effective in displaying junk.

It's also cheaper and doesn't involve taking the lens off to check for said motes.

pp

eoren1

FoCal confirms - I've got a lemon!

So as you can see in my post this am, I was ready to leave troubles behind. I had also just purchased the FoCal calibration program to help figure out/dial in focus adjustments. I ran through the 50/1.8, 85/1.8 and 24-105 with pretty large adjustments needed. The photos after dialing in looked great though so I was pleased with that purchase.

I next worked on a friends 5d mk II and lenses. The last one I did was her 70-200/2.8 IS v1. I was shocked how perfect hers was. Zero af adjustment and af consistency had a 1% spread over 15 shots. For fun I decided to try that lens on my 5d mk III. I also needed zero af adjustment but the af consistency? 24% spread with photos all over the place!

Called Canon who stated they would not replace the camera. Now to call Beach for an advance RMA...

NeilL

eoren1 wrote: »

FoCal confirms - I've got a lemon!

So as you can see in my post this am, I was ready to leave troubles behind. I had also just purchased the FoCal calibration program to help figure out/dial in focus adjustments. I ran through the 50/1.8, 85/1.8 and 24-105 with pretty large adjustments needed. The photos after dialing in looked great though so I was pleased with that purchase.

I next worked on a friends 5d mk II and lenses. The last one I did was her 70-200/2.8 IS v1. I was shocked how perfect hers was. Zero af adjustment and af consistency had a 1% spread over 15 shots. For fun I decided to try that lens on my 5d mk III. I also needed zero af adjustment but the af consistency? 24% spread with photos all over the place!

Called Canon who stated they would not replace the camera. Now to call Beach for an advance RMA...

Could the AF variability of your MkIII vs her MkII come down to the very different natures of their respective AF systems? But I guess you set both at simple and basic centre AF point, and one shot (not AI Servo etc) drive?

I'm pretty sure Canon would calibrate your camera and lenses for you. Then they themselves would discover any AF issues and the onus would be on them.

Neil

eoren1

Hey Neil
So the FoCal system works by automating the process of running through -20 to +20 AF corrections and finding the sweet spot. On the mk III it is semi-automated as you have to input the numbers. The mk II runs on its own. At the end, there is a tool in the Pro version to run Autofocus consistency checks. Basically, the camera takes a set number of photos. Each is shot on tripod, mirror lockup, center AF point, one shot, iso 100, wide open aperture. The software moves the focus to infinity between each shot and records a number (? lines/mm). The mk II with lens was at 1000 and barely moved off that line with each shot. The mk III was all over the place 1100 - 850 with only 5 on the '1000' line.

I later took the mk III and 85/1.8 lens out to play with AI servo. When it got focus, it was beautiful. But it missed 3 out of 6 of a pretty stationary cat. Missed about 20% of shots of the kids outside (f/1.8 shutter 500) - and when it missed, it missed big (like 6 inches in front).

My issue at this point, is that Canon has had a chance (two actually) to get this camera up to spec. If a senior tech can't get the AF system functioning, there must be some inherent flaw on the board to cause these errors. I'm hoping they agree as the return to Beach camera may get complicated - they don't have any cameras in stock right now - I may end up hitting the 45-day limit for an RMA.

Here are the results of AF consistency testing (mk III on top, mk II on bottom - same lens)

davev

Even before you wrote that you got I lemon, I was going to say return it.

To many things going on to early in ownership.

Good luck, I hope Beach will make things right for you.

PS, 25 years experience, the first Canon DSLR came out in 2000.
25 years of experience doing what?

eoren1

Thanks Dave - for the comment and the chuckle

NeilL

Yes, understand, Eyal.

Just that the complexity and customisability of the MkIII AF system makes me question a little the ability of an automated tool such as FoCal (which predates this camera) to work with it successfully.

That you are finding your MkIII is not behaving in the wild, now with 2 lenses, is perhaps more telling, since it is contrary to the general assessment that the MkIII is a far more reliable focusing system.

I empathise with your frustration at being put into this situation with a new camera, the flagship nature and the cost of which should guarantee otherwise. I tend to agree with you that you should not prolong the agony, but should call on your right to a replacement without further delay. I think it is vanishingly unlikely that you will get another dud.

Neil

eoren1 wrote: »

Hey Neil
So the FoCal system works by automating the process of running through -20 to +20 AF corrections and finding the sweet spot. On the mk III it is semi-automated as you have to input the numbers. The mk II runs on its own. At the end, there is a tool in the Pro version to run Autofocus consistency checks. Basically, the camera takes a set number of photos. Each is shot on tripod, mirror lockup, center AF point, one shot, iso 100, wide open aperture. The software moves the focus to infinity between each shot and records a number (? lines/mm). The mk II with lens was at 1000 and barely moved off that line with each shot. The mk III was all over the place 1100 - 850 with only 5 on the '1000' line.

I later took the mk III and 85/1.8 lens out to play with AI servo. When it got focus, it was beautiful. But it missed 3 out of 6 of a pretty stationary cat. Missed about 20% of shots of the kids outside (f/1.8 shutter 500) - and when it missed, it missed big (like 6 inches in front).

My issue at this point, is that Canon has had a chance (two actually) to get this camera up to spec. If a senior tech can't get the AF system functioning, there must be some inherent flaw on the board to cause these errors. I'm hoping they agree as the return to Beach camera may get complicated - they don't have any cameras in stock right now - I may end up hitting the 45-day limit for an RMA.

Here are the results of AF consistency testing (mk III on top, mk II on bottom - same lens)