I have found resolution and his name is Hal! Called Beach Camera a few hours ago and they issued an RMA. Packed up the camera and lens and heading to FedEx with them (as well as the loaner 5D mk III, 70-200/2.8, 135/2 and 100/2). Ready to put this whole horrible saga behind me.
start rant - Have to say, that the most frustrating aspect in the end was the discussion I had with a manager at Canon Corporate Relations today. I admit I do not know as much about Canon gear as the techs that have been there for years but please don't insult my intelligence. I worked hard over the past 6 weeks to help pinpoint the problems with the camera and whether I used a 3rd party software (to offer whatever objective evidence I could) should not disqualify all the effort I put into this. I have been nothing but cordial in all of my verbal interactions with Canon. All I ever wanted was a single person there to sympathise with the frustrations I was expressing and help me come to a mutually agreeable resolution. - end rant
I have found resolution and his name is Hal! Called Beach Camera a few hours ago and they issued an RMA. Packed up the camera and lens and heading to FedEx with them (as well as the loaner 5D mk III, 70-200/2.8, 135/2 and 100/2). Ready to put this whole horrible saga behind me.
Really hope this works out for you. Kinda surprised you relinquished the loaner, but my fingers are crossed.
-Jack
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Jack
They were never going to allow me to keep the loaner. That became quite clear after talking to 'management'. Once that option was taken away, I felt really stuck. The call to Beach was like a Hail Mary pass with seconds left on the clock.
Well no. But they made it clear they would continue to push me to accept 'my' camera and would not authorize the loaner on exchange.
Frankly I was tired of running tests to prove to them what was clear to me - the camera's autofocus was inferior to that of the loaner. Whether that fell under 'factory tolerances', I can't answer. But for $3500 I would hope my Kepler rate would be better than a 4 year old 50d with its 9 AF points.
Eyal, the way it went with Canon was as I foresaw, in their making the FoCal evidence the overwhelming invalidating part of your claim, and in keeping your complaint local to the service centre. At the point that was reached, you would have had to, independently of the service centre and on your own initiative, escalate the issue to Canon USA head office, not on the basis of "proofs" alone, but mainly on the basis of your dissatisfaction, in warranty terms, and Canon's defacto admission of faulty parts in the camera.
Still, this is a black mark against Canon in my book. There are now 2 such, because in actuality I had a similar experience to you when I bought my 40D. First copy, the images were full of noise. Sent it back to local Canon service centre, they said no problems found, escalated to regional (Middle East) Canon office, threw in a couple of statements from other Canon photographers who had tested my camera supporting my claim. Result, was given a new copy.
Hope the pleasure you get with your replacement will quickly efface this bad experience.
Thanks Neil. In fact I did try to escalate this outside of the service center. After the supervisor there told me to 'keep testing', I called CPS. Got a manager who seemed helpful but then got bumped 'up' to the manager at Canon Corporate Relations. I've been trying to figure out what ticked me off so much in speaking with him and I finally figured it out - he was snide and condescending in every comment and remark. I expressed the dissatisfaction I was feeling but that was summarily dismissed. This whole experience has definitely soured me on Canon in regards to their customer support and I do not plan to extend my CPS membership.
Don't "cut off your nose to spite your face" though. When it comes to what Canon can offer that is useful to you, then exploit it to the nth. Like or dislike Canon, as in this experience you have had, doesn't matter.
You didn't in fact "go all the way" with Canon in this experience, I think, maybe. You still had options apart from the toxic guy you describe. The local service centre (which possibly had also prepped that guy in his response to you, through notes or even indirectly through your own retelling of the history) apparently interpreted you as a OCD case obsessed with applying some uninterpretable numbers of questionable validity and relevance from a 3rd party app not fully supporting the camera, in judgement of the camera in opposition to Canon's own assessment. IOW in the "nut case" category!:D
Not making excuses for Canon, no way, and not my opinion of you, I hope you understand!! But you came to Canon out of the blue of a population of several million unknowns. They have to "filter" you, which is what they did. That filter can be changed, however.
Thanks for opening your problem to us here. It's been valuable.
Thanks Neil. In fact I did try to escalate this outside of the service center. After the supervisor there told me to 'keep testing', I called CPS. Got a manager who seemed helpful but then got bumped 'up' to the manager at Canon Corporate Relations. I've been trying to figure out what ticked me off so much in speaking with him and I finally figured it out - he was snide and condescending in every comment and remark. I expressed the dissatisfaction I was feeling but that was summarily dismissed. This whole experience has definitely soured me on Canon in regards to their customer support and I do not plan to extend my CPS membership.
I don't think I would be so quick to walk away from CPS. For $100 borrowing equipment and getting expedited repairs at a discount is hard to beat. I think you just walked into a perfect storm of problems and support responses. Time consuming as it was you are getting your camera replaced. If you didn't have CPS there is a good chance it would have been even more time consuming.
Thanks Neil. In fact I did try to escalate this outside of the service center. After the supervisor there told me to 'keep testing', I called CPS. Got a manager who seemed helpful but then got bumped 'up' to the manager at Canon Corporate Relations. I've been trying to figure out what ticked me off so much in speaking with him and I finally figured it out - he was snide and condescending in every comment and remark. I expressed the dissatisfaction I was feeling but that was summarily dismissed. This whole experience has definitely soured me on Canon in regards to their customer support and I do not plan to extend my CPS membership.
Canon is probably inundated with complaints about every possible minutia from people like the idiot pixel-peeping window-licking forum members at dpreview, many of whom I think are insane and/or out of touch with reality and the outdoors.
-Jack
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
You guys have great points. I'm not sure how I could have proven myself to be a photographer and not a gear junky obsessing over a single dim LCD pixel or some other minutiae.
Neil is right in that Mr Toxic was very different after talking to the NJ service center.
I will reconsider CPS at some point. I did just ship back all that gear which I would never had access to otherwise and, in the end, the 5d iii loaner was the single best thing to come out of the experience. That validated my findings (at least to me) and showed me I wasn't crazy and the camera was clearly defective.
Just hoping the next one arrives in time for the fourth now...
Wow...talk about customer service. Big shout out to Beach Camera.
Sent in the camera and lens on Tuesday 6/26. It arrived there Wednesday 6/27 at 1pm. I called Hal as he told me to give him a heads up when it was there to try and make sure I would have the replacement in time for the 4th. Just got an email with a tracking number and the new camera is due to arrive tomorrow, 6/29.
I'm giddy at the service I have received from Beach. I would not have been upset with them had they told me there was nothing they could do for me. Instead they have gone out of their way to accomodate this replacement and do it in incredibly fast fashion.
Nothing like a problem/saga on this scale, but my first dSLR was purchased from Beach. It arrived err99 all over the place and had to go back - they were brilliant, sent out a replacement before they'd received the return, and otherwise offered exemplary service. I know they're not usually mentioned in the same breath as B&H and Adorama, but my experience with them was good - glad to hear yours has been too, Eyal.
You've had quite enough drama with this camera, so I'm glad something is finally going right with it all!!!
End of the Saga
So the replacement camera from Beach did arrive today as scheduled and I set about getting the battery charged while I ran some errands (including picking up my Best of Show award). Got home and had a few hours and no kids so I ran through the FoCal testing to get microAF setup. Amazed that the lenses now needed barely any adjustment:
24-105 got a -1 on both ends
100/2 got 0
70-200 got a -1 on both ends
Far cry from prior values. And I ran a set of 25 shots with AF consistency on the 70-200/4 at 200 and the results were perfect - barely wavering from the line with each shot.
I went out at sunset for a quick shoot around town and then got a text from my wife that our 6 year old finally lost his first tooth. Rushed home, swapped in the 100/2 and shot a bunch in AI servo under dim light. The camera's auto focus was flat out awesome. The only misfocused shots were ones where I moved in too close with the 100mm lens and was within the minimum focusing distance.
Here's one favorite from tonight and I'm very happy to have concluded this long, drawn out saga. I guess the moral is to always go to the place of purchase if possible and get a straight exchange if you find problems with a new body or lens.
[QUOTE=eoren1;1792640 The only misfocused shots were ones where I moved in too close with the 100mm lens and was within the minimum focusing distance.
[/QUOTE]
Send a note to the Canon manager (that was a dick on the phone) to call Beach Camera to learn how to deal with a defective product.
Enjoy the camera, you really did earn it.
Congrats on finally getting a 5D3 you are happy with!
What a saga. I have to compliment you on your patience as I would have "boiled over" when they refused to let you keep the loaner. They are both "used" 5D3s and if both are within tolerances why should they care which one you keep? Likely they were concerned yours is sub-standard and didn't want to be sending it out as their new loaner!
A big thumbs up to Beach Camera for how they handled this. Canon doesn't seem to get it when it comes to understanding the importance of making sure their customers are satisfied and remain loyal! They seem to think they are the only game in town. They could (and should) have made you happy by letting you keep the loaner and you would now be singing their praises. Instead you have this tail of crappy service to tell everybody.
I hope you now have years of trouble free shooting, you've earned them!
Comments
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
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I have found resolution and his name is Hal! Called Beach Camera a few hours ago and they issued an RMA. Packed up the camera and lens and heading to FedEx with them (as well as the loaner 5D mk III, 70-200/2.8, 135/2 and 100/2). Ready to put this whole horrible saga behind me.
start rant - Have to say, that the most frustrating aspect in the end was the discussion I had with a manager at Canon Corporate Relations today. I admit I do not know as much about Canon gear as the techs that have been there for years but please don't insult my intelligence. I worked hard over the past 6 weeks to help pinpoint the problems with the camera and whether I used a 3rd party software (to offer whatever objective evidence I could) should not disqualify all the effort I put into this. I have been nothing but cordial in all of my verbal interactions with Canon. All I ever wanted was a single person there to sympathise with the frustrations I was expressing and help me come to a mutually agreeable resolution. - end rant
My site | Non-MHD Landscapes |Google+ | Twitter | Facebook | Smugmug photos
Really hope this works out for you. Kinda surprised you relinquished the loaner, but my fingers are crossed.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
http://www.danalphotos.com
http://www.pluralsight.com
http://twitter.com/d114
They were never going to allow me to keep the loaner. That became quite clear after talking to 'management'. Once that option was taken away, I felt really stuck. The call to Beach was like a Hail Mary pass with seconds left on the clock.
My site | Non-MHD Landscapes |Google+ | Twitter | Facebook | Smugmug photos
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Frankly I was tired of running tests to prove to them what was clear to me - the camera's autofocus was inferior to that of the loaner. Whether that fell under 'factory tolerances', I can't answer. But for $3500 I would hope my Kepler rate would be better than a 4 year old 50d with its 9 AF points.
My site | Non-MHD Landscapes |Google+ | Twitter | Facebook | Smugmug photos
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
My site | Non-MHD Landscapes |Google+ | Twitter | Facebook | Smugmug photos
Still, this is a black mark against Canon in my book. There are now 2 such, because in actuality I had a similar experience to you when I bought my 40D. First copy, the images were full of noise. Sent it back to local Canon service centre, they said no problems found, escalated to regional (Middle East) Canon office, threw in a couple of statements from other Canon photographers who had tested my camera supporting my claim. Result, was given a new copy.
Hope the pleasure you get with your replacement will quickly efface this bad experience.
Neil
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
My site | Non-MHD Landscapes |Google+ | Twitter | Facebook | Smugmug photos
Don't "cut off your nose to spite your face" though. When it comes to what Canon can offer that is useful to you, then exploit it to the nth. Like or dislike Canon, as in this experience you have had, doesn't matter.
You didn't in fact "go all the way" with Canon in this experience, I think, maybe. You still had options apart from the toxic guy you describe. The local service centre (which possibly had also prepped that guy in his response to you, through notes or even indirectly through your own retelling of the history) apparently interpreted you as a OCD case obsessed with applying some uninterpretable numbers of questionable validity and relevance from a 3rd party app not fully supporting the camera, in judgement of the camera in opposition to Canon's own assessment. IOW in the "nut case" category!:D
Not making excuses for Canon, no way, and not my opinion of you, I hope you understand!!
Thanks for opening your problem to us here. It's been valuable.
Neil
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
http://www.danalphotos.com
http://www.pluralsight.com
http://twitter.com/d114
Canon is probably inundated with complaints about every possible minutia from people like the idiot pixel-peeping window-licking forum members at dpreview, many of whom I think are insane and/or out of touch with reality and the outdoors.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Neil is right in that Mr Toxic was very different after talking to the NJ service center.
I will reconsider CPS at some point. I did just ship back all that gear which I would never had access to otherwise and, in the end, the 5d iii loaner was the single best thing to come out of the experience. That validated my findings (at least to me) and showed me I wasn't crazy and the camera was clearly defective.
Just hoping the next one arrives in time for the fourth now...
My site | Non-MHD Landscapes |Google+ | Twitter | Facebook | Smugmug photos
Sent in the camera and lens on Tuesday 6/26. It arrived there Wednesday 6/27 at 1pm. I called Hal as he told me to give him a heads up when it was there to try and make sure I would have the replacement in time for the 4th. Just got an email with a tracking number and the new camera is due to arrive tomorrow, 6/29.
I'm giddy at the service I have received from Beach. I would not have been upset with them had they told me there was nothing they could do for me. Instead they have gone out of their way to accomodate this replacement and do it in incredibly fast fashion.
My site | Non-MHD Landscapes |Google+ | Twitter | Facebook | Smugmug photos
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
You've had quite enough drama with this camera, so I'm glad something is finally going right with it all!!!
So the replacement camera from Beach did arrive today as scheduled and I set about getting the battery charged while I ran some errands (including picking up my Best of Show award
24-105 got a -1 on both ends
100/2 got 0
70-200 got a -1 on both ends
Far cry from prior values. And I ran a set of 25 shots with AF consistency on the 70-200/4 at 200 and the results were perfect - barely wavering from the line with each shot.
I went out at sunset for a quick shoot around town and then got a text from my wife that our 6 year old finally lost his first tooth. Rushed home, swapped in the 100/2 and shot a bunch in AI servo under dim light. The camera's auto focus was flat out awesome. The only misfocused shots were ones where I moved in too close with the 100mm lens and was within the minimum focusing distance.
Here's one favorite from tonight and I'm very happy to have concluded this long, drawn out saga. I guess the moral is to always go to the place of purchase if possible and get a straight exchange if you find problems with a new body or lens.
My site | Non-MHD Landscapes |Google+ | Twitter | Facebook | Smugmug photos
[QUOTE=eoren1;1792640 The only misfocused shots were ones where I moved in too close with the 100mm lens and was within the minimum focusing distance.
[/QUOTE]
http://www.danalphotos.com
http://www.pluralsight.com
http://twitter.com/d114
Isn't nice to have positive proof you weren't crazy? I hope Canon was paying attention, there were 111 post re this issue.
Glad to see all is well and you can enjoy your new camera!!
Sam
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Send a note to the Canon manager (that was a dick on the phone) to call Beach Camera to learn how to deal with a defective product.
Enjoy the camera, you really did earn it.
Basking in the shadows of yesterday's triumphs'.
...but that's not a "normal" bear, Sam, it's an "upside down bear"!
Congratulations Eyal!
Neil
http://www.behance.net/brosepix
My site | Non-MHD Landscapes |Google+ | Twitter | Facebook | Smugmug photos
What a saga. I have to compliment you on your patience as I would have "boiled over" when they refused to let you keep the loaner. They are both "used" 5D3s and if both are within tolerances why should they care which one you keep? Likely they were concerned yours is sub-standard and didn't want to be sending it out as their new loaner!
A big thumbs up to Beach Camera for how they handled this. Canon doesn't seem to get it when it comes to understanding the importance of making sure their customers are satisfied and remain loyal! They seem to think they are the only game in town.
I hope you now have years of trouble free shooting, you've earned them!