The question is, does SmugMug want to cater to everyone? I would prefer they not detrimentally split their focus on long-term hobbyists that don't have an inkling to ever make more than $500 per year but instead cater to those that want to make more than $500 per year.
I suspect there might be a correlation between the commission fees dropping on digital downloads, the yearly fee increasing and those that are now eager to drop their digital downloads below $1 each and get as close to $0.01 as they can.
Time to stop driving the market down you penny lovers and step up to support your penny loving ways.
As for those on the fence about whether to stay here or leave based on your renewal date... I'd say, contact the help desk so that you can lock in the lower rate for another year before jumping ship if you don't want to downgrade. Perhaps in a year or less, you'll come to quietly and reluctantly appreciate the higher yearly fee. Or maybe it will just delay the inevitable and really screw up SM counting on your renewals at the highest tier.
Good luck to y'all and all our theories we have regarding this price increase. May it work out for us all. Either way, don't forget to check out http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com and http://www.networksolutions.com if you're unhappy with SM and all of the other choices presented here so far.
The question is, does SmugMug want to cater to everyone? I would prefer they not detrimentally split their focus on long-term hobbyists that don't have an inkling to ever make more than $500 per year but instead cater to those that want to make more than $500 per year.
I agree with this. There is clearly a difference between the needs of hobbyists and serious working pros. So SmugMug made their choice.
My question is: Are they sure they chose the right market segment? SmugMug has always struck me as being just perfect for prosumers, weekend warriors, etc. Their casual style and love of photography seems to fit best with the enthusiast crowd.
Are there really enough serious pros in their mix to make up for the loss of the mass-custom market represented by the light-pros?
The Power account will have the regular SmugMug logo, rather than the SmugMug Pro logo, added. The SmugMug branding cannot be removed from places like the browser tab or from videos that you have on your site with the Power account.
Sorry - rereading my reply now and I see I was not clear. If you display the SmugMug header on your site and have a power account, then the logo displayed is the regular SmugMug logo.
You will not be able to remove the SmugMug footer (this is true for all account levels) nor will you be able to remove the SmugMug brand from the browser tab or from video if you choose a Power account.
Longtime SM Pro user. Price increase wasn't fatal to me, but did prompt me to see what else was out there. ZF provides most of what I get with SM and is less expensive and simpler to customize. And their iPad app works. So I will not be renewing with SM. My first "pro" sale was made through SM, and there is lots I'll miss, especially the Heroes (and they are aptly named). But business is business. Nonetheless, I move on with a heavy heart. Thanks for everything SM.
Did you really feel like the customization was easier? I took a couple of cracks at it, and could get nothing even close to a decent looking site.
I feel like their customization tool is overly complex to get something looking decent.
I agree with this. There is clearly a difference between the needs of hobbyists and serious working pros. So SmugMug made their choice.
My question is: Are they sure they chose the right market segment? SmugMug has always struck me as being just perfect for prosumers, weekend warriors, etc. Their casual style and love of photography seems to fit best with the enthusiast crowd.
Are there really enough serious pros in their mix to make up for the loss of the mass-custom market represented by the light-pros?
Ah yes, the type of photographer I try to distance myself from everyday is the prosumer weekend warrior. That $300 entry point to have photos online would have been a hard sell to me when I was choosing a site. It still might be for me when my renewal date comes up.
I think one stat SmugMug needs to look at is how many people are paying the current PRO yearly fee... yearly or monthly?
I know that when I could afford it, I paid for a storage unit I have the whole amount for the year in order to take advantage of their "pay 11 months in advance, get one month free." However, I then started to notice my yearly fee rising every year. Ever since I started paying monthly a few years ago, they haven't raised my monthly rates. Finally an expense I could count on.
And don't be fooled by those numbers. It's far easier for SmugMug to charge that yearly fee to my credit card that continues to bill me for my SmugMug purchase what I owe for the rest of the year (and sometimes beyond). The storage unit, on the other hand requires cash/check and thus my decision to pay monthly was easier to arrive at.
Overall, at $300 per year, I don't want to learn any CSS crap EVER. Customer service will now be... "what do you want? We'll paste the code." Don't forget the other things I've wanted from day one many days/weeks/months/years ago. Don't forget that I narrowed down my choices to three to five companies before deciding upon SM. And don't forget that you will force me to do what every business person does: consider those three to five options again with all of the new choices out there and to ponder the following:
will the new site be better, just as good or worse?
Did you really feel like the customization was easier? I took a couple of cracks at it, and could get nothing even close to a decent looking site.
I feel like their customization tool is overly complex to get something looking decent.
Yes I did. For me, significantly easier. I suspect there is more depth to the SM customization options, but what ZF has is adequate for me. I was able to develop a better site for my needs in one evening than I had on SM after several years of tinkering. That is not necessarily SM's fault, but I do feel the ZF experience is more user-friendly with a less severe learning curve.
I'd like to reiterate - I was a happy smugger and not considering a switch until the price increase. As stated by others, I too believe SM made a choice in favor of Pros over enthusiasts. While not happy with the choice, I fully support their right to choose. It may actually work out better for both of us. And I wish them incredible success.
Sorry - rereading my reply now and I see I was not clear. If you display the SmugMug header on your site and have a power account, then the logo displayed is the regular SmugMug logo.
You will not be able to remove the SmugMug footer (this is true for all account levels) nor will you be able to remove the SmugMug brand from the browser tab or from video if you choose a Power account.
I hope that is clearer.
ann
Ah, thank you. So you are saying the option to set a Favicon will not be active in the customization screen for Power users? Or that it can be set, but SM code will override it? It's a minor thing, but since we have SmugMug integrated as the photo section of our nonprofit website, it would be nice to have it consistent. Thanks for clarifying.
Since just about everything is being discussed, a questiaon I have is this...how much total storage is used in video (0.1%, 1%, 10%)? Yes its a nice feature to have but if I had to choose it would be "optional" to me if a cost was assoicated with it. Meaning does hosting/selling video currently cover the cost of storing it? This is a photo site, not youtube.
Ah, thank you. So you are saying the option to set a Favicon will not be active in the customization screen for Power users? Or that it can be set, but SM code will override it? It's a minor thing, but since we have SmugMug integrated as the photo section of our nonprofit website, it would be nice to have it consistent. Thanks for clarifying.
I think Ann's referring to the SmugMug logo in the header. For Basic and Power users, there's a different logo than for Portfolio and Business users. You can hide the SmugMug header on Power account and higher. That would also hide the SmugMug logo.
I don't think there's any difference in the favicon customizations between Power, Portfolio and Business level. It's not supported on all browsers, so depending on the browser you use, you may see different results.
Ah, thank you. So you are saying the option to set a Favicon will not be active in the customization screen for Power users? Or that it can be set, but SM code will override it? It's a minor thing, but since we have SmugMug integrated as the photo section of our nonprofit website, it would be nice to have it consistent. Thanks for clarifying.
I'm actually referring to the text within the browser tab, like this:
It's still going to show up on the customer's credit card statement as a SmugMug charge, so in the end you're not really fooling anybody.
"I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
And I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again"
If it really is about storage costs, why are the to basic and power levels not going up? They use the same servers as everyone else, correct? Still unlimited storage and smugmug won't make any commission off of them for not selling prints. The basic and power will still have the benefits of unlimited storage, the portfolio user loses the ability to make profits, along with other features (or is forced to business level) while the business level gets to cover the cost for everyone else...
If the prices are going to increase, why not make it an "across the board" increase so it won't be as much?
I understand the need for an occasional price increase due to various things, but this just isn't cool guys...really
If it really is about storage costs, why are the to basic and power levels not going up? They use the same servers as everyone else, correct? Still unlimited storage and smugmug won't make any commission off of them for not selling prints. The basic and power will still have the benefits of unlimited storage, the portfolio user loses the ability to make profits, along with other features (or is forced to business level) while the business level gets to cover the cost for everyone else...
If the prices are going to increase, why not make it an "across the board" increase so it won't be as much?
I understand the need for an occasional price increase due to various things, but this just isn't cool guys...really
Don answered this in the recent video they made about the price increase.
If it really is about storage costs, why are the to basic and power levels not going up?
They say it's because they have data to show Basic/Power users consume much less storage than Pro users.
I have a suspicion that will change as many Pros flee the Business account @ $250-$300 for a Power account @ $60, watermark images before uploading and implement some type of self fulfillment cart system for taking orders.
Don't be too surprised when customization at the Power level gets neutered to limit/eliminate that option, similar to how they "fixed" the watermark issue when downgrading from Pro to Power.
If it really is about storage costs, why are the to basic and power levels not going up? They use the same servers as everyone else, correct? Still unlimited storage and smugmug won't make any commission off of them for not selling prints. The basic and power will still have the benefits of unlimited storage, the portfolio user loses the ability to make profits, along with other features (or is forced to business level) while the business level gets to cover the cost for everyone else...
If the prices are going to increase, why not make it an "across the board" increase so it won't be as much?
I understand the need for an occasional price increase due to various things, but this just isn't cool guys...really
I have to agree with Vince, just not cool. I would suggest that since the price increase you spend some of the windfall paying the photographer in real time - like at the time of purchase instead of the current ridiculous system where you (Smugmug) sit on the money and send it out after it accumulates to a certain amount. I for one don't sell that many at once - it would just be nice to be paid upon purchase.
I've been a Power User for 4 years (today is the anniversary, actually, just renewed).
I never needed any of the Pro features. I wanted my custom domain name though, and that's pretty much the big thing (or else I would have chosen Basic). Heck, I even watermark my own images before uploading (using my automated Photoshop Actions when sizing). To my surprise, I'd been contracted a few times to do some paid photo work and got published based only on what people have seen on my site, even though I wasn't even looking for work. That did help pay for my hobby and a bit more. That's the extent of it in regards to earnings for me on this. I'm a Hobbyist. My site is basically a place to display my images to share my photography passion and growth with others, not to sell downloads or prints.
Regarding the storage issue:
I'm one of the "low storage" Power account users. Even though I could have milked it and taken advantage of the "unlimited" storage, I don't even upload hi-res images either, as you can see from my Storage stats:
FILES UPLOADED: 2425
TOTAL STORAGE USED: 348.28 MB
Yes, that's MEGabytes, not Gigabytes or Terabytes.
For those who suggested/mentioned the possibility of spreading the increase across all accounts, is it even more fair for a user like me to bear such price increases, to subsidize those who use far, far more resources than I do?
Is my usage taxing SmugMug's resources that much? I think that I'm paying the right amount for what I'm doing.
Whether there's a mass downgrading by the Pros or not -- as a low resource-user here, I certainly do NOT wish to have a price increase on my back in order to subsidize others. For that reason I'm glad SmugMug didn't increase the Power level. Not all of us use high-storage resources or other higher-level features.
I believe, like others have said, fees should be based on what individuals use over a certain amount the account allows, not spread out to hit lower-level users harder. It may need some tweaking, but Having that other account tier for Pro user migrants is a better idea too.
I just wanted to put my 2 pennies in, just in case this "spreading the increase across all accounts" suggestion is even being entertained now or in the future.
Been a smugmug pro user since 2004 and was grandfathered in at $99 until now . I'm not a "professional" at all but at $99/year back then I thought it was a good deal for my hobby.
I'm in the same boat. I've been a Pro subscriber since 2004, have used SmugMug to post studio portraits I've taken at 1 or 2 events (school dances, music recitals, etc). But even at $99/yr it cost me more for the subscription than I made in a year from those photos. I've eaten the difference until now, but ... tripling the price to $300?! At the new rates, I'll have to kiss the Pro subscription good-bye next Spring (renewal time), and possibly drop off of SmugMug altogether :-(.
I don't store that many photos in my account (and could delete old galleries if needed), so storage can't possibly be an issue. Nor can bandwidth. I wish SmugMug had a tiered structure so the basic Pro subscription was even lower than $99, but offered limited storage and bandwidth, with higher tiers that offered more storage/bandwidth, up to the "new" subscription which is Unlimited storage and bandwidth. ...Or, at least allowed me to set a simple mark-up for galleries with a Power account.
Canon EOS 7D ........ 24-105 f/4L | 50 f/1.4 | 70-200 f/2.8L IS + 1.4x II TC ........ 580EX
Supported by: Benro C-298 Flexpod tripod, MC96 monopod, Induro PHQ1 head
Also play with: studio strobes, umbrellas, softboxes, ...and a partridge in a pear tree...
I'm in the same boat. I've been a Pro subscriber since 2004, have used SmugMug to post studio portraits I've taken at 1 or 2 events (school dances, music recitals, etc). But even at $99/yr it cost me more for the subscription than I made in a year from those photos. I've eaten the difference until now, but ... tripling the price to $300?!
Your new rate would be $200/year, not $300. The $300/year is for brand new signups. Just wanted to let you know .
Your new rate would be $200/year, not $300. The $300/year is for brand new signups. Just wanted to let you know .
Ah, thanks. That helps ... but is still way out of the ballpark for me. Even $99/yr has been a stretch. Wish there was a "Pro Lite", or *some* way to sell photos at a mild markup, allowing me to recover some of the costs of the subscription. Sigh.
BTW, SmugMug support has always been incredibly good, truly "Nordstrom's" level service, probably the best I've ever seen for a web-based business. I know that kind of service can't come for free.
Canon EOS 7D ........ 24-105 f/4L | 50 f/1.4 | 70-200 f/2.8L IS + 1.4x II TC ........ 580EX
Supported by: Benro C-298 Flexpod tripod, MC96 monopod, Induro PHQ1 head
Also play with: studio strobes, umbrellas, softboxes, ...and a partridge in a pear tree...
I say if you smugmug clients can find your email that stated your are permanently grandfathered in at 99 that should give you a leg to stand on to say at 99.....I am still looking for mine, it was not a PM thru the DGRIN message system it was an email to the official email used for my account... without that email I just it a whole lot easier to move my account.
Would you mind posting a link to where it says that current Pro Account holders will only pay $200/year instead of $300/year?
For the Business plan....
If you were paying $99.95 before your new rate is $200
If you were paying $150 before your new rate is $250
If you are a brand new signup your rate is $300
Comments
http://www.photosharingreviews.com/reviews/photoshelter/compare-zenfolio-vs-photoshelter-vs-smugmug.php
www.carolineshipsey.co.uk - Follow me on G+
[/URL]
I suspect there might be a correlation between the commission fees dropping on digital downloads, the yearly fee increasing and those that are now eager to drop their digital downloads below $1 each and get as close to $0.01 as they can.
Time to stop driving the market down you penny lovers and step up to support your penny loving ways.
As for those on the fence about whether to stay here or leave based on your renewal date... I'd say, contact the help desk so that you can lock in the lower rate for another year before jumping ship if you don't want to downgrade. Perhaps in a year or less, you'll come to quietly and reluctantly appreciate the higher yearly fee. Or maybe it will just delay the inevitable and really screw up SM counting on your renewals at the highest tier.
Good luck to y'all and all our theories we have regarding this price increase. May it work out for us all. Either way, don't forget to check out http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com and http://www.networksolutions.com if you're unhappy with SM and all of the other choices presented here so far.
I agree with this. There is clearly a difference between the needs of hobbyists and serious working pros. So SmugMug made their choice.
My question is: Are they sure they chose the right market segment? SmugMug has always struck me as being just perfect for prosumers, weekend warriors, etc. Their casual style and love of photography seems to fit best with the enthusiast crowd.
Are there really enough serious pros in their mix to make up for the loss of the mass-custom market represented by the light-pros?
http://www.smugmug.com/photos/photo-sharing-features/
Really? Where is that explained on the feature comparisons? Any other limits in customization that we will find if we downgrade to Power?
You will not be able to remove the SmugMug footer (this is true for all account levels) nor will you be able to remove the SmugMug brand from the browser tab or from video if you choose a Power account.
I hope that is clearer.
ann
My Galleries My Photography BLOG
Ramblings About Me
Did you really feel like the customization was easier? I took a couple of cracks at it, and could get nothing even close to a decent looking site.
I feel like their customization tool is overly complex to get something looking decent.
www.joeywashburn.com
Ah yes, the type of photographer I try to distance myself from everyday is the prosumer weekend warrior. That $300 entry point to have photos online would have been a hard sell to me when I was choosing a site. It still might be for me when my renewal date comes up.
I think one stat SmugMug needs to look at is how many people are paying the current PRO yearly fee... yearly or monthly?
I know that when I could afford it, I paid for a storage unit I have the whole amount for the year in order to take advantage of their "pay 11 months in advance, get one month free." However, I then started to notice my yearly fee rising every year. Ever since I started paying monthly a few years ago, they haven't raised my monthly rates. Finally an expense I could count on.
And don't be fooled by those numbers. It's far easier for SmugMug to charge that yearly fee to my credit card that continues to bill me for my SmugMug purchase what I owe for the rest of the year (and sometimes beyond). The storage unit, on the other hand requires cash/check and thus my decision to pay monthly was easier to arrive at.
Overall, at $300 per year, I don't want to learn any CSS crap EVER. Customer service will now be... "what do you want? We'll paste the code." Don't forget the other things I've wanted from day one many days/weeks/months/years ago. Don't forget that I narrowed down my choices to three to five companies before deciding upon SM. And don't forget that you will force me to do what every business person does: consider those three to five options again with all of the new choices out there and to ponder the following:
will the new site be better, just as good or worse?
Yes I did. For me, significantly easier. I suspect there is more depth to the SM customization options, but what ZF has is adequate for me. I was able to develop a better site for my needs in one evening than I had on SM after several years of tinkering. That is not necessarily SM's fault, but I do feel the ZF experience is more user-friendly with a less severe learning curve.
I'd like to reiterate - I was a happy smugger and not considering a switch until the price increase. As stated by others, I too believe SM made a choice in favor of Pros over enthusiasts. While not happy with the choice, I fully support their right to choose. It may actually work out better for both of us. And I wish them incredible success.
Ah, thank you. So you are saying the option to set a Favicon will not be active in the customization screen for Power users? Or that it can be set, but SM code will override it? It's a minor thing, but since we have SmugMug integrated as the photo section of our nonprofit website, it would be nice to have it consistent. Thanks for clarifying.
I don't think there's any difference in the favicon customizations between Power, Portfolio and Business level. It's not supported on all browsers, so depending on the browser you use, you may see different results.
SmugMug Support Hero
I'm actually referring to the text within the browser tab, like this:
https://skitch.com/aemphoto/euner/windermere-studios
I did not create a favicon, so Smuggy shows on my tab. If you have a Power account, the the text in the tab included SmugMug.
Hope that is clearer.
ann
My Galleries My Photography BLOG
Ramblings About Me
three guys | portfolio | flickr | facebook | twitter | tumblr
Why?
It's still going to show up on the customer's credit card statement as a SmugMug charge, so in the end you're not really fooling anybody.
"I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
And I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again"
three guys | portfolio | flickr | facebook | twitter | tumblr
So, are the prices for each level rising? Or, just the "pro" levels...
The answer is all throughout this thread.
http://mcq.smugmug.com
--- Denise
Musings & ramblings at https://denisegoldberg.blogspot.com
Thank you for answering.
That's what I thought, just wanted to verify.
If it really is about storage costs, why are the to basic and power levels not going up? They use the same servers as everyone else, correct? Still unlimited storage and smugmug won't make any commission off of them for not selling prints. The basic and power will still have the benefits of unlimited storage, the portfolio user loses the ability to make profits, along with other features (or is forced to business level) while the business level gets to cover the cost for everyone else...
If the prices are going to increase, why not make it an "across the board" increase so it won't be as much?
I understand the need for an occasional price increase due to various things, but this just isn't cool guys...really
Don answered this in the recent video they made about the price increase.
http://news.smugmug.com/2012/09/07/chris-don-macaskill-answer-questions-about-smugmugs-price-increase/
Your question is addressed at 4:23 and answered at 5:00
Support Hero
They say it's because they have data to show Basic/Power users consume much less storage than Pro users.
I have a suspicion that will change as many Pros flee the Business account @ $250-$300 for a Power account @ $60, watermark images before uploading and implement some type of self fulfillment cart system for taking orders.
Don't be too surprised when customization at the Power level gets neutered to limit/eliminate that option, similar to how they "fixed" the watermark issue when downgrading from Pro to Power.
I never needed any of the Pro features. I wanted my custom domain name though, and that's pretty much the big thing (or else I would have chosen Basic). Heck, I even watermark my own images before uploading (using my automated Photoshop Actions when sizing). To my surprise, I'd been contracted a few times to do some paid photo work and got published based only on what people have seen on my site, even though I wasn't even looking for work. That did help pay for my hobby and a bit more. That's the extent of it in regards to earnings for me on this. I'm a Hobbyist. My site is basically a place to display my images to share my photography passion and growth with others, not to sell downloads or prints.
Regarding the storage issue:
I'm one of the "low storage" Power account users. Even though I could have milked it and taken advantage of the "unlimited" storage, I don't even upload hi-res images either, as you can see from my Storage stats:
FILES UPLOADED: 2425
TOTAL STORAGE USED: 348.28 MB
Yes, that's MEGabytes, not Gigabytes or Terabytes.
For those who suggested/mentioned the possibility of spreading the increase across all accounts, is it even more fair for a user like me to bear such price increases, to subsidize those who use far, far more resources than I do?
Is my usage taxing SmugMug's resources that much? I think that I'm paying the right amount for what I'm doing.
Whether there's a mass downgrading by the Pros or not -- as a low resource-user here, I certainly do NOT wish to have a price increase on my back in order to subsidize others. For that reason I'm glad SmugMug didn't increase the Power level. Not all of us use high-storage resources or other higher-level features.
I believe, like others have said, fees should be based on what individuals use over a certain amount the account allows, not spread out to hit lower-level users harder. It may need some tweaking, but Having that other account tier for Pro user migrants is a better idea too.
I just wanted to put my 2 pennies in, just in case this "spreading the increase across all accounts" suggestion is even being entertained now or in the future.
Thanks for reading.
Film/TV Stills Photography
"When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt." ~ Henry J. Kaiser
I'm in the same boat. I've been a Pro subscriber since 2004, have used SmugMug to post studio portraits I've taken at 1 or 2 events (school dances, music recitals, etc). But even at $99/yr it cost me more for the subscription than I made in a year from those photos. I've eaten the difference until now, but ... tripling the price to $300?! At the new rates, I'll have to kiss the Pro subscription good-bye next Spring (renewal time), and possibly drop off of SmugMug altogether :-(.
I don't store that many photos in my account (and could delete old galleries if needed), so storage can't possibly be an issue. Nor can bandwidth. I wish SmugMug had a tiered structure so the basic Pro subscription was even lower than $99, but offered limited storage and bandwidth, with higher tiers that offered more storage/bandwidth, up to the "new" subscription which is Unlimited storage and bandwidth. ...Or, at least allowed me to set a simple mark-up for galleries with a Power account.
Supported by: Benro C-298 Flexpod tripod, MC96 monopod, Induro PHQ1 head
Also play with: studio strobes, umbrellas, softboxes, ...and a partridge in a pear tree...
Your new rate would be $200/year, not $300. The $300/year is for brand new signups. Just wanted to let you know
Support Hero
BTW, SmugMug support has always been incredibly good, truly "Nordstrom's" level service, probably the best I've ever seen for a web-based business. I know that kind of service can't come for free.
Supported by: Benro C-298 Flexpod tripod, MC96 monopod, Induro PHQ1 head
Also play with: studio strobes, umbrellas, softboxes, ...and a partridge in a pear tree...
Would you mind posting a link to where it says that current Pro Account holders will only pay $200/year instead of $300/year?
http://mcq.smugmug.com
this also came to me in an email from Baldy....
If you were paying $99.95 before your new rate is $200
If you were paying $150 before your new rate is $250
If you are a brand new signup your rate is $300
Edit: Baldy explains this in the video right around the 2:00 mark
http://news.smugmug.com/2012/08/31/smugmugs-pro-pricing-change-what-why-and-how/
Support Hero