it looks like that a lot of people here make a tons of customization to make their sites NOT look like a smugmug site..
so how about for the 'business' account, have an option to REMOVE the smugmug logo? i mean it's $300...
I have a customized Smugmug website, with Smugmug's business account, and I don't have any Smugmug logo. And I like it that way. So I guess it depends on your own customization. Ask the Smugmug hero's if you don't get it done yourself.
I'll leave most of my opinions at the door and focus on a few things that I think are being overlooked regarding the PRO account increase:
1. At a $150 per year for the top tier at SmugMug, I was considering splitting my site into two sites and profitability speaking wise, maybe more someday. At $300 per year, that decision will have to be delayed (and shelved for more than two sites). More than ever, I need more levels for my site's hierarchy (one to three with no custom CSS workaround crap). When is this going to happen?
2. The SmugMug referral program is no longer fair to the PRO (Business) user. If a Basic account user at $40 can get a $10 referral discount (that's 25% of their annual fee), then the referral discount for a PRO (Business) user should be 25% of $300 which would be $75. When is SmugMug going to adjust the referral fee to be more fair?
3. If I was a basic user today, would I be grandfathered in at the discounted PRO (Business) rate whenever I choose to upgrade my account?
4. As an existing user, can I create an additional new account/site through SM before October 15 and have that site grandfathered in at the discounted rate of $250 per year?
5. Can a new user take advantage of the discounted PRO (business) rate by signing up by October 15? If not, I highly recommend SM do a marketing push to take advantage of the price being the same as the highest tier at Zenfolio: something like... "sign up now and be grandfathered in."
Lastly, since I am posting these points here, I expect an answer here at Dgrin. I shouldn't have to re-post in a message at the help desk or vice-versa.
1. At a $150 per year for the top tier at SmugMug, I was considering splitting my site into two sites and profitability speaking wise, maybe more someday. At $300 per year, that decision will have to be delayed (and shelved for more than two sites). More than ever, I need more levels for my site's hierarchy (one to three with no custom CSS workaround crap). When is this going to happen?
This 'need' is something we're very aware of (you're not the only one). This is definitely is on our radar and will be addressed, but as has always been the case, we don't pre-announce future features or set release dates. I realize this can be frustrating and I apologize for that.
2. The SmugMug referral program is no longer fair to the PRO (Business) user. If a Basic account user at $40 can get a $10 referral discount (that's 25% of their annual fee), then the referral discount for a PRO (Business) user should be 25% of $300 which would be $75. When is SmugMug going to adjust the referral fee to be more fair?
Agree 100% - Also an issue we're on-top-of. We're looking at options for this going forward as well.
3. If I was a basic user today, would I be grandfathered in at the discounted PRO (Business) rate whenever I choose to upgrade my account?
Whichever level you're at, grandfathered account status has always been 'lost' when changing account levels, and that remains unchanged.
4. As an existing user, can I create an additional new account/site through SM before October 15 and have that site grandfathered in at the discounted rate of $250 per year?
We'd be happy to accommodate you on this - once you have the new account/s created, contact the Heroes and they'll make it happen (help @ smugmug.com).
5. Can a new user take advantage of the discounted PRO (business) rate by signing up by October 15? If not, I highly recommend SM do a marketing push to take advantage of the price being the same as the highest tier at Zenfolio: something like... "sign up now and be grandfathered in."
As above, and as a long time Smugger, it goes without saying that we always want to help. We are doing this on a case-by-case basis.
- If there is ANYTHING we can do to assist, just holler.
I thought I had everything covered but I've come up with a thought related to question #4:
4b. After October 15, can I split my PRO (Business) site into two sites and have both sites grandfathered in at the same rate of $250 per year?
We're always willing to help, Pure - and as mentioned, every case is unique... so while it would be impossible to make any promises, we'll do our best to assist when it's time to cross that bridge.
We're always willing to help, Pure - and as mentioned, every case is unique... so while it would be impossible to make any promises, we'll do our best to assist when it's time to cross that bridge.
That's the kind of response I've learned to expect sometimes (and not hate here) but am thankful it wasn't the NO that it could have been. I'll be sure to contact the help desk when it's time for SM to throw me the ropes to swing across the bridge with the missing planks.
I have a customized Smugmug website, with Smugmug's business account, and I don't have any Smugmug logo. And I like it that way. So I guess it depends on your own customization. Ask the Smugmug hero's if you don't get it done yourself.
Last night and today was the first time I paid attention to this thread since I was away for the Labor Day weekend and all I can say is wow. Like quite a few others on here, I'm a low volume seller as this site is more of a hobby for me. In no way am dependent on it to pay my bills. Since I do have a few months before my renewal is up I can explore what's best for me. Zenfolio's Premium package at $120 is looking very reasonable right about now (Premium Business account at $250 has a few more features but none of those will apply to me). Not only that, they have a cheaper commission fee than smugmug (12% vs. 15% for prints and 8% for digital downloads). Heck at that price I could do that AND keep my current smugmug site at the Power level and still come out cheaper than the new PRO price. I guess my question now is what does smugmug have feature wise at their new price that zenfolio don't?
I do have one concern that was spoken by the CEO...
What I will say is that we've built our business over nearly 10 years by listening, very closely, to our customers. To you. We ignore our "competitors", many of which have come and gone over the last decade, in favor of doing what's right for you. We ignore "hot" industry trends on a regular basis because our customers aren't telling us they want them. You are our compass.
REALLY?...How can you ignore your competitors? This is understandable if you have a 60%+ market share (then maybe you do, hell I don't know). If anything your competitors make you strive to improve your business.
I just watched the newest video with Chris and Don answering questions about the price increase. I was the OP and have been reading all the different comments coming in. In my opinion there have been some great questions asked and as far as I can tell many have been answered. I have always loved the customer service provided by this company. The support heroes have been slammed with questions coming from this thread and I bet this has caused more than 1 sleepless night this past week.
To again come out with another video explaining what's going on is yet another example of how Chris and Don are trying to stay ahead of this and get the truth out there. I can't recall another company like this taking a more active role in making sure it's customers know what's going on.
I have decided that I will keep the Pro account for another year and see what happens.
I just watched the newest video with Chris and Don answering questions about the price increase. I was the OP and have been reading all the different comments coming in. In my opinion there have been some great questions asked and as far as I can tell many have been answered. I have always loved the customer service provided by this company. The support heroes have been slammed with questions coming from this thread and I bet this has caused more than 1 sleepless night this past week.
To again come out with another video explaining what's going on is yet another example of how Chris and Don are trying to stay ahead of this and get the truth out there. I can't recall another company like this taking a more active role in making sure it's customers know what's going on.
I have decided that I will keep the Pro account for another year and see what happens.
Keith
That so great to hear, Keith. Thank you for the kind words, and understanding.
My account is due for oct 20 so I don't get much time to turn things around. I just sell the odd pic here and there and all but one have been downloads so what I'll probably do is keep the Portefolio or downgrade to Power and set up a Paypal link.
I just watched the newest video with Chris and Don answering questions about the price increase. I was the OP and have been reading all the different comments coming in. In my opinion there have been some great questions asked and as far as I can tell many have been answered. I have always loved the customer service provided by this company. The support heroes have been slammed with questions coming from this thread and I bet this has caused more than 1 sleepless night this past week.
To again come out with another video explaining what's going on is yet another example of how Chris and Don are trying to stay ahead of this and get the truth out there. I can't recall another company like this taking a more active role in making sure it's customers know what's going on.
I have decided that I will keep the Pro account for another year and see what happens.
Keith
This has been an interesting thread you started. I'm not sure we watched the same video though. Either that, or we didn't hear the same words from the MacAskills. I heard a lot of rationalizations about increasing price, with no plan to stop the ridiculous increase on the hobbyist photographers, or the Pros who make less than a few thousand each year. You know, the people that SM claims to be in support of, and how they "die inside" because of this (please spare us that meaningless platitude). What I didn't hear was the CEO say that they would look into adjusting the price hike.
Solution for SM: don't raise the price by $100 on people with Pro accounts who aren't making a killing or eating up all your storage. I don't even care about these mysterious unnamed cutting edge features they're dangling like carrots. I just want to be able to make a profit by setting my own prices. It's simple. Do not raise the price on those who aren't chewing up your valuable resources.
I've always contended that SM does a lot right, but that they were woefully out of touch with customers. They're the Silicon Valley version of the Washington D.C. Beltway Insiders. No real clue what is going on outside of their bubble. The proof is in the price increase and who they're sticking with the tab.
"Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio, our nation turns its lonely eyes to you?"
This has been an interesting thread you started. I'm not sure we watched the same video though. Either that, or we didn't hear the same words from the MacAskills. I heard a lot of rationalizations about increasing price, with no plan to stop the ridiculous increase on the hobbyist photographers, or the Pros who make less than a few thousand each year. You know, the people that SM claims to be in support of, and how they "die inside" because of this (please spare us that meaningless platitude). What I didn't hear was the CEO say that they would look into adjusting the price hike.
Solution for SM: don't raise the price by $100 on people with Pro accounts who aren't making a killing or eating up all your storage. I don't even care about these mysterious unnamed cutting edge features they're dangling like carrots. I just want to be able to make a profit by setting my own prices. It's simple. Do not raise the price on those who aren't chewing up your valuable resources.
What I heard was that they got the message about charging less to pro users (with commerce abilities) who don't chew up their storage (and maybe who don't use some of their advanced features that incur a lot of support costs like packages and coupons), but they can't implement that now because they don't have the right infrastructure or tools in place now. Since they've never had any sort of storage limits, they probably don't have the ability to enforce any sort of limit if you're paying a cheaper rate for less storage or to bill for how much storage you're using. The fact that he was explaining why they can't do it now means to me that they were thinking about when they could do it, but of course he didn't say what exactly they might change in the future.
What I heard was that they got the message about charging less to pro users (with commerce abilities) who don't chew up their storage (and maybe who don't use some of their advanced features that incur a lot of support costs like packages and coupons), but they can't implement that now because they don't have the right infrastructure or tools in place now. Since they've never had any sort of storage limits, they probably don't have the ability to enforce any sort of limit if you're paying a cheaper rate for less storage or to bill for how much storage you're using. The fact that he was explaining why they can't do it now means to me that they were thinking about when they could do it, but of course he didn't say what exactly they might change in the future.
I hear you, John, but even if I agreed with that interpretation 100%, the solution is really simple. Don't raise prices now. Just don't do it. There's simply no justification in the video or interview given for such a massive increase now.
Again, it's carrot waiving (with a little bit of stick to the low level [money-wise] Pro users).
Split the service. Or announce that the service levels will be split in October, with price changes going into effect as well. Give the low level Pros something other than, "We die inside..."
(man that was really a dumb thing to say by DM, since the price increase is the action that negates the words).
"Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio, our nation turns its lonely eyes to you?"
I hear you, John, but even if I agreed with that interpretation 100%, the solution is really simple. Don't raise prices now. Just don't do it. There's simply no justification in the video or interview given for such a massive increase now.
Again, it's carrot waiving (with a little bit of stick to the low level [money-wise] Pro users).
Split the service. Or announce that the service levels will be split in October, with price changes going into effect as well. Give the low level Pros something other than, "We die inside..."
(man that was really a dumb thing to say by DM, since the price increase is the action that negates the words).
Apparently, you didn't watch the same video I did. If they don't do something, they're going to get eaten by their storage costs. The explosion of high res cameras, success of online selling, improvement in upload bandwidth and improvement in uploaders has led to people uploading a LOT more GBs than they used to. This storage use has grown way, way faster than the cost of reliable disk storage has declined. As such, their current revenue won't successfully cover the rising storage costs (either now or soon in the future) and provide enough retained earnings to fund all the new features we're clamoring for. They have to do something and it appears they feel they have to do something very soon.
I heard that they are considering options for a lower storage using pro that might be available around the $150 level, but that they don't have the infrastructure to implement that now (e.g. they will have to build some stuff first before they could offer that). As such they can't implement that now or by Oct. 15.
So, it seems like you say they should not raise prices now, but that doesn't help solve their storage cost issue. Then, you say they should give the low levels pros a different option next month, but they don't have that implemented yet. So, the only thing I see that you're saying they can actually do is just cancel the price increase until they have something implemented for lower-storage-using pros. That is a legitimate option, but it's up to Smugmug to assess the financial consequences of that vs. the path they're on now (with the price increase) and decide which way they want to go.
Apparently, you didn't watch the same video I did. If they don't do something, they're going to get eaten by their storage costs. The explosion of high res cameras, success of online selling, improvement in upload bandwidth and improvement in uploaders has led to people uploading a LOT more GBs than they used to. This storage use has grown way, way faster than the cost of reliable disk storage has declined. As such, their current revenue won't successfully cover the rising storage costs (either now or soon in the future) and provide enough retained earnings to fund all the new features we're clamoring for. They have to do something and it appears they feel they have to do something very soon.
Yep, that's the same video, John. I heard all that, and I understand it. My interpretation of it is that this situation is a failure of the company to manage their business costs properly and it's not the customer's fault. I know I'm not alone in that interpretation, as the many threads, blog posts, FB and Twitter posts indicate. The failure of SM to accurately manage their costs has caused them to tag their customers unexpectedly with a sharp increase in price for the service. That's what most of us are miffed about.
I heard that they are considering options for a lower storage using pro that might be available around the $150 level, but that they don't have the infrastructure to implement that now (e.g. they will have to build some stuff first before they could offer that). As such they can't implement that now or by Oct. 15.
I did not hear this apparently. I either missed it, or misinterpreted something that was along these lines. But I did not hear a direct and positive commitment to doing this. Mea culpa if I missed it.
So, it seems like you say they should not raise prices now, but that doesn't help solve their storage cost issue.
This is another issue that I think is a failure on their part to accurately manage their business. Again, not the customer's fault, but they are willing to tag us with the penalty for their mistake.
Then, you say they should give the low levels pros a different option next month, but they don't have that implemented yet. So, the only thing I see that you're saying they can actually do is just cancel the price increase until they have something implemented for lower-storage-using pros. That is a legitimate option, but it's up to Smugmug to assess the financial consequences of that vs. the path they're on now (with the price increase) and decide which way they want to go.
I agree with all you've said here, with the clarification that I'm saying there is nothing necessary for them to need to implement for the lower-storage-using pros. That's already in place. I do agree that it's up to SM to assess the financial consequences, of course. It's their company and they've ultimately got to do what is necessary to be viable. That's where it gets tricky for any service type business.
The balance is remembering that they exist solely for the customer. They created a company voluntarily. They asked for customers voluntarily. They're only purpose is to meet the needs of their customers as best they can. It isn't that we the customers are "always right" or anything like that, it's simply about the company treating their customers like they want to keep the customers. This whole debacle is the anti-version of wanting to keep customers. If they can manage this situation appropriately, and without being disingenuous (as I feel they have been, despite everything they say), then all is well.
I'm still waiting to see what comes.
"Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio, our nation turns its lonely eyes to you?"
Yep, that's the same video, John. I heard all that, and I understand it. My interpretation of it is that this situation is a failure of the company to manage their business costs properly and it's not the customer's fault. I know I'm not alone in that interpretation, as the many threads, blog posts, FB and Twitter posts indicate. The failure of SM to accurately manage their costs has caused them to tag their customers unexpectedly with a sharp increase in price for the service. That's what most of us are miffed about.
That's fine to be miffed. They messed up by not predicting the explosion in storage costs. They messed up by not realizing that they needed to encourage customers to manage their own storage. Unlimited storage for their photography site turns out not to work long term at the prices they were charging. They need to address that issue to maintain a healthy service and business. It is not an option to do nothing even though customers may want them to not change anything.
I did not hear this apparently. I either missed it, or misinterpreted something that was along these lines. But I did not hear a direct and positive commitment to doing this. Mea culpa if I missed it.
You have to read between the lines where the answers indicate that they've discussed a lower storage option and evaluated what it would take to implement. They did not come out and say they would do such a thing, but I'm confident they will because a low storage user at $150/yr is a good business opportunity and I think they will want that business as much as they want a $300/yr customer that uses more storage.
This is another issue that I think is a failure on their part to accurately manage their business. Again, not the customer's fault, but they are willing to tag us with the penalty for their mistake.
This is mostly an emotional statement (which I understand), but the fact remains that they need to fix the economics of their business. Changes are going to happen whether you like what those changes are or not.
I agree with all you've said here, with the clarification that I'm saying there is nothing necessary for them to need to implement for the lower-storage-using pros. That's already in place. I do agree that it's up to SM to assess the financial consequences, of course. It's their company and they've ultimately got to do what is necessary to be viable. That's where it gets tricky for any service type business.
This is where I think you and I see things differently. Suppose (as you suggest) they start offering a low storage pro option for $150 tomorrow that allows 20GB. I sign up and immediately upload 100GB. Smugmug needs infrastructure to either prevent me from uploading more than my limit or start charging me a higher amount because of my higher storage (or something in between). Today, they don't have that infrastructure and it takes time to code, test and implement things like that. Without it, they'd have to be charging based on an honor system or by paying people to manually review every account every day. Neither of those is practical at their volume of activity.
The balance is remembering that they exist solely for the customer. They created a company voluntarily. They asked for customers voluntarily. They're only purpose is to meet the needs of their customers as best they can. It isn't that we the customers are "always right" or anything like that, it's simply about the company treating their customers like they want to keep the customers. This whole debacle is the anti-version of wanting to keep customers. If they can manage this situation appropriately, and without being disingenuous (as I feel they have been, despite everything they say), then all is well.
I'm still waiting to see what comes.
Actually, they exist to be a successful business. It so happens that they need to meet the needs of some set of customers in order to make a successful business, but if there are customers that aren't compatible with a successful business such as a standard user who has 2TB of images and won't ever pay any more than what the standard account costs, then they may weed out those customers at some point because they aren't compatible with a successful business. Smugmug gets to decide which set of customers they will serve or to set the conditions under which people can be customers.
This is where I think you and I see things differently. Suppose (as you suggest) they start offering a low storage pro option for $150 tomorrow that allows 20GB. I sign up and immediately upload 100GB. Smugmug needs infrastructure to either prevent me from uploading more than my limit or start charging me a higher amount because of my higher storage (or something in between). Today, they don't have that infrastructure and it takes time to code, test and implement things like that. Without it, they'd have to be charging based on an honor system or by paying people to manually review every account every day. Neither of those is practical at their volume of activity.
This is a very valid point and explanation, John. I've thought of it as needing to do nothing, but what you've said here makes sense.
Actually, they exist to be a successful business. It so happens that they need to meet the needs of some set of customers in order to make a successful business, but if there are customers that aren't compatible with a successful business such as a standard user who has 2TB of images and won't ever pay any more than what the standard account costs, then they may weed out those customers at some point because they aren't compatible with a successful business. Smugmug gets to decide which set of customers they will serve or to set the conditions under which people can be customers.
I agree, of course, they need to be successful as a business. I take that as a given. My point was that they chose to do a line of work that is service-based, which requires a different "touch" with customers. And I understand that the business needs to be modified so that they don't get crushed by a customer base that sucks up most of their resources without returning an appropriate level of subscription fees. It just seems that the baby is being thrown out with the bath water here.
I think most of us agree on SM needing to stay vibrant and viable. It's how they choose to do so that becomes less agreed upon.
Thanks for all the work you personally have done to help me and the other SM customers, by the way, John. I know you've put a great deal into making the whole SM experience much better. Wanted you to know its appreciated.
"Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio, our nation turns its lonely eyes to you?"
It just seems that the baby is being thrown out with the bath water here.
If they want to keep the low-storage consuming pro or the customer who will manage their storage to a lower amount in exchange for a $150 annual pro subscription (which I think would be an intelligent business decision), then they messed up and we will have to see if they take actions to fix that. I suspect they will, but we will see.
Thanks for all the work you personally have done to help me and the other SM customers, by the way, John. I know you've put a great deal into making the whole SM experience much better. Wanted you to know its appreciated.
Quick question, if I downgrade to "Power" user at the time of my renewal will my site automatically be branded with the smugmug pro logo everywhere or any smugmug logos at that? Right now there are none which is perfect.
Quick question, if I downgrade to "Power" user at the time of my renewal will my site automatically be branded with the smugmug pro logo everywhere or any smugmug logos at that? Right now there are none which is perfect.
Hi Dota
The Power account will have the regular SmugMug logo, rather than the SmugMug Pro logo, added. The SmugMug branding cannot be removed from places like the browser tab or from videos that you have on your site with the Power account.
I did watch the video, and while I had decided to stay before watching the video, it only reinforces that I'm making the right decision. The four things that Chris says are coming down the pike first are the four things I most want. I realize that it's not SM policy to put a timeline on these things, but to actually get an acknowledgement that these four things are at the top of the heap makes me feel pretty good about the future.
It seems counter-intuitive to deny the ability to sell to ANYONE who pays to use Smugmug. Even sites like CafePress let their free accounts mark up products (though free accounts are limited to one image on one product). Reading through this thread it is obvious that the ability to sell even just a few prints means a great deal to many who want Smug's quality either for personal keepsakes or as they try to grow a viable photography business.
One solution is to standardize the ability to purchase for all subscriptions except the top one. Simply include a standard watermark and set a standard markup across-the-board on the products; let those paying top dollar have full bells & whistles.
I'll be patient for a while to learn of the new offerings, but at the end of the day, make a demonstrative statement of major enhancements, SM....anything less will be the gurgling sound of Pro accounts going down the drain....
D800, D3s, D700, D300, D40 and a boatload of glass
Longtime SM Pro user. Price increase wasn't fatal to me, but did prompt me to see what else was out there. ZF provides most of what I get with SM and is less expensive and simpler to customize. And their iPad app works. So I will not be renewing with SM. My first "pro" sale was made through SM, and there is lots I'll miss, especially the Heroes (and they are aptly named). But business is business. Nonetheless, I move on with a heavy heart. Thanks for everything SM.
Comments
so how about for the 'business' account, have an option to REMOVE the smugmug logo? i mean it's $300...
I have a customized Smugmug website, with Smugmug's business account, and I don't have any Smugmug logo. And I like it that way. So I guess it depends on your own customization. Ask the Smugmug hero's if you don't get it done yourself.
1. At a $150 per year for the top tier at SmugMug, I was considering splitting my site into two sites and profitability speaking wise, maybe more someday. At $300 per year, that decision will have to be delayed (and shelved for more than two sites). More than ever, I need more levels for my site's hierarchy (one to three with no custom CSS workaround crap). When is this going to happen?
2. The SmugMug referral program is no longer fair to the PRO (Business) user. If a Basic account user at $40 can get a $10 referral discount (that's 25% of their annual fee), then the referral discount for a PRO (Business) user should be 25% of $300 which would be $75. When is SmugMug going to adjust the referral fee to be more fair?
3. If I was a basic user today, would I be grandfathered in at the discounted PRO (Business) rate whenever I choose to upgrade my account?
4. As an existing user, can I create an additional new account/site through SM before October 15 and have that site grandfathered in at the discounted rate of $250 per year?
5. Can a new user take advantage of the discounted PRO (business) rate by signing up by October 15? If not, I highly recommend SM do a marketing push to take advantage of the price being the same as the highest tier at Zenfolio: something like... "sign up now and be grandfathered in."
Lastly, since I am posting these points here, I expect an answer here at Dgrin. I shouldn't have to re-post in a message at the help desk or vice-versa.
1. At a $150 per year for the top tier at SmugMug, I was considering splitting my site into two sites and profitability speaking wise, maybe more someday. At $300 per year, that decision will have to be delayed (and shelved for more than two sites). More than ever, I need more levels for my site's hierarchy (one to three with no custom CSS workaround crap). When is this going to happen?
This 'need' is something we're very aware of (you're not the only one). This is definitely is on our radar and will be addressed, but as has always been the case, we don't pre-announce future features or set release dates. I realize this can be frustrating and I apologize for that.
2. The SmugMug referral program is no longer fair to the PRO (Business) user. If a Basic account user at $40 can get a $10 referral discount (that's 25% of their annual fee), then the referral discount for a PRO (Business) user should be 25% of $300 which would be $75. When is SmugMug going to adjust the referral fee to be more fair?
Agree 100% - Also an issue we're on-top-of. We're looking at options for this going forward as well.
3. If I was a basic user today, would I be grandfathered in at the discounted PRO (Business) rate whenever I choose to upgrade my account?
Whichever level you're at, grandfathered account status has always been 'lost' when changing account levels, and that remains unchanged.
4. As an existing user, can I create an additional new account/site through SM before October 15 and have that site grandfathered in at the discounted rate of $250 per year?
We'd be happy to accommodate you on this - once you have the new account/s created, contact the Heroes and they'll make it happen (help @ smugmug.com).
5. Can a new user take advantage of the discounted PRO (business) rate by signing up by October 15? If not, I highly recommend SM do a marketing push to take advantage of the price being the same as the highest tier at Zenfolio: something like... "sign up now and be grandfathered in."
As above, and as a long time Smugger, it goes without saying that we always want to help. We are doing this on a case-by-case basis.
- If there is ANYTHING we can do to assist, just holler.
I thought I had everything covered but I've come up with a thought related to question #4:
4b. After October 15, can I split my PRO (Business) site into two sites and have both sites grandfathered in at the same rate of $250 per year?
That's the kind of response I've learned to expect sometimes (and not hate here) but am thankful it wasn't the NO that it could have been. I'll be sure to contact the help desk when it's time for SM to throw me the ropes to swing across the bridge with the missing planks.
Even in your shopping cart?
I do have one concern that was spoken by the CEO...
REALLY?...How can you ignore your competitors? This is understandable if you have a 60%+ market share (then maybe you do, hell I don't know). If anything your competitors make you strive to improve your business.
http://www.thisweekinphoto.com/2012/twip-271-smugmuggery/
www.carolineshipsey.co.uk - Follow me on G+
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thanks for posting this caroline
My Smugmug Site
It would be interesting to hear what you think after listening to this.
www.carolineshipsey.co.uk - Follow me on G+
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No, you're right, there it shows. It says "Photo Website Hosting by Smugmug Pro".
To again come out with another video explaining what's going on is yet another example of how Chris and Don are trying to stay ahead of this and get the truth out there. I can't recall another company like this taking a more active role in making sure it's customers know what's going on.
I have decided that I will keep the Pro account for another year and see what happens.
Keith
That so great to hear, Keith. Thank you for the kind words, and understanding.
borealphoto.smugmug.com
This has been an interesting thread you started. I'm not sure we watched the same video though. Either that, or we didn't hear the same words from the MacAskills. I heard a lot of rationalizations about increasing price, with no plan to stop the ridiculous increase on the hobbyist photographers, or the Pros who make less than a few thousand each year. You know, the people that SM claims to be in support of, and how they "die inside" because of this (please spare us that meaningless platitude). What I didn't hear was the CEO say that they would look into adjusting the price hike.
Solution for SM: don't raise the price by $100 on people with Pro accounts who aren't making a killing or eating up all your storage. I don't even care about these mysterious unnamed cutting edge features they're dangling like carrots. I just want to be able to make a profit by setting my own prices. It's simple. Do not raise the price on those who aren't chewing up your valuable resources.
I've always contended that SM does a lot right, but that they were woefully out of touch with customers. They're the Silicon Valley version of the Washington D.C. Beltway Insiders. No real clue what is going on outside of their bubble. The proof is in the price increase and who they're sticking with the tab.
http://mcq.smugmug.com
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I hear you, John, but even if I agreed with that interpretation 100%, the solution is really simple. Don't raise prices now. Just don't do it. There's simply no justification in the video or interview given for such a massive increase now.
Again, it's carrot waiving (with a little bit of stick to the low level [money-wise] Pro users).
Split the service. Or announce that the service levels will be split in October, with price changes going into effect as well. Give the low level Pros something other than, "We die inside..."
(man that was really a dumb thing to say by DM, since the price increase is the action that negates the words).
http://mcq.smugmug.com
I heard that they are considering options for a lower storage using pro that might be available around the $150 level, but that they don't have the infrastructure to implement that now (e.g. they will have to build some stuff first before they could offer that). As such they can't implement that now or by Oct. 15.
So, it seems like you say they should not raise prices now, but that doesn't help solve their storage cost issue. Then, you say they should give the low levels pros a different option next month, but they don't have that implemented yet. So, the only thing I see that you're saying they can actually do is just cancel the price increase until they have something implemented for lower-storage-using pros. That is a legitimate option, but it's up to Smugmug to assess the financial consequences of that vs. the path they're on now (with the price increase) and decide which way they want to go.
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Yep, that's the same video, John. I heard all that, and I understand it. My interpretation of it is that this situation is a failure of the company to manage their business costs properly and it's not the customer's fault. I know I'm not alone in that interpretation, as the many threads, blog posts, FB and Twitter posts indicate. The failure of SM to accurately manage their costs has caused them to tag their customers unexpectedly with a sharp increase in price for the service. That's what most of us are miffed about.
I did not hear this apparently. I either missed it, or misinterpreted something that was along these lines. But I did not hear a direct and positive commitment to doing this. Mea culpa if I missed it.
This is another issue that I think is a failure on their part to accurately manage their business. Again, not the customer's fault, but they are willing to tag us with the penalty for their mistake.
I agree with all you've said here, with the clarification that I'm saying there is nothing necessary for them to need to implement for the lower-storage-using pros. That's already in place. I do agree that it's up to SM to assess the financial consequences, of course. It's their company and they've ultimately got to do what is necessary to be viable. That's where it gets tricky for any service type business.
The balance is remembering that they exist solely for the customer. They created a company voluntarily. They asked for customers voluntarily. They're only purpose is to meet the needs of their customers as best they can. It isn't that we the customers are "always right" or anything like that, it's simply about the company treating their customers like they want to keep the customers. This whole debacle is the anti-version of wanting to keep customers. If they can manage this situation appropriately, and without being disingenuous (as I feel they have been, despite everything they say), then all is well.
I'm still waiting to see what comes.
http://mcq.smugmug.com
This is mostly an emotional statement (which I understand), but the fact remains that they need to fix the economics of their business. Changes are going to happen whether you like what those changes are or not.
This is where I think you and I see things differently. Suppose (as you suggest) they start offering a low storage pro option for $150 tomorrow that allows 20GB. I sign up and immediately upload 100GB. Smugmug needs infrastructure to either prevent me from uploading more than my limit or start charging me a higher amount because of my higher storage (or something in between). Today, they don't have that infrastructure and it takes time to code, test and implement things like that. Without it, they'd have to be charging based on an honor system or by paying people to manually review every account every day. Neither of those is practical at their volume of activity.
Actually, they exist to be a successful business. It so happens that they need to meet the needs of some set of customers in order to make a successful business, but if there are customers that aren't compatible with a successful business such as a standard user who has 2TB of images and won't ever pay any more than what the standard account costs, then they may weed out those customers at some point because they aren't compatible with a successful business. Smugmug gets to decide which set of customers they will serve or to set the conditions under which people can be customers.
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This is a very valid point and explanation, John. I've thought of it as needing to do nothing, but what you've said here makes sense.
I agree, of course, they need to be successful as a business. I take that as a given. My point was that they chose to do a line of work that is service-based, which requires a different "touch" with customers. And I understand that the business needs to be modified so that they don't get crushed by a customer base that sucks up most of their resources without returning an appropriate level of subscription fees. It just seems that the baby is being thrown out with the bath water here.
I think most of us agree on SM needing to stay vibrant and viable. It's how they choose to do so that becomes less agreed upon.
Thanks for all the work you personally have done to help me and the other SM customers, by the way, John. I know you've put a great deal into making the whole SM experience much better. Wanted you to know its appreciated.
http://mcq.smugmug.com
Thanks.
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Hi Dota
The Power account will have the regular SmugMug logo, rather than the SmugMug Pro logo, added. The SmugMug branding cannot be removed from places like the browser tab or from videos that you have on your site with the Power account.
Hope that helps.
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One solution is to standardize the ability to purchase for all subscriptions except the top one. Simply include a standard watermark and set a standard markup across-the-board on the products; let those paying top dollar have full bells & whistles.
PJ.
"Where beauty moves and wit delights and signs of kindness bind me; there, oh there, whe'er I go I leave my heart behind me." (Thomas Ford, 1607)