I'm going to cut you some slack here but know that as I see it you've been borderline abusive and without cause. Joel's post is in no way confusing and yet you've come out swinging in very condescending tones. I'll ask that you kindly refrain from further comment in this thread.
I don't understand this mindset at all. The other gentleman was PAID for his work, by a friend no less! He agreed to do a job for a price, did it and got his compensation. It's done. Frankly I have no idea what the agreement was between that gentleman and his friend to know if any agreement was violated and neither do you because those details weren't given. Did he have something in his agreement that said specifically that electronically delivered images can't be submitted to magazines for publication? And why would he? If you buy a car, and decide to charge somebody for a ride to the airport, does the car manufacturer come after you for a cut? That photographer is making noises like he was harmed in some way -- folks making money of his hard work! I don't see it. He agreed to do a job for a certain fee and he did it. The customer bought those images and can do as they see fit. Anybody that has to follow every picture they ever took to make sure their customers (much less friends) aren't unduly benefiting from them has way too much free time on their hands. Not to mention it's bad karma.
Don't tell me what I know or don't know. You have no idea what I know about copyright or licensing because I proffered no opinion on the subject one way or another. Furthermore, you have absolutely no idea what level of agreement or contracts there were between the other photographer and their clients. What I was getting at is even if there was a copyright violation, I don't understand the mindset that says you have to hammer your friend over the head with the law just because you can.
Now that other gentleman's lawyer suggested he drop the issue. So if you have strong feelings on the matter, I suggest you go do it in his thread. I'm sure he'd love to have you.
Wow, this type of attitude from someone who's a moderator? How unprofessional. And what I don't get is the mindset that everyone should think about their work the same way you do. It's my opinion, you have yours--leave it at that.
I am NOT talking about copyright protection. I am talking about MY OWN PHILOSOPHY of dealing with clients and friends and what is morally right and wrong. My opinions only. I would NEVER think of causing trouble for a friend whose wedding I shot. In fact, I would most likely have shot the wedding for free and called it a gift, as I've done in the past. But to start causing trouble because the bride wanted to see her picture in a magazine? Personally, I don't understand that mindset. In my own case, I gave images to use to Cassey to use as she saw fit. She's published in magazines and on ABC News. Good on her! Could I sue her ass, the magazine and who know who else? Sure! Would I? Hell no.
Nor am I the kind of person who files trespassing charges against someone who walks across the corner of my grass. I am a free-thinking individual who doesn't need the government OR YOU to tell me what I can do and not do with my pictures. Should I choose to enforce my copyrights the option is always there. I just don't feel like I have to use it in every case and certainly not in either of the two cases in question.
Bottom line: Just because you have a LEGAL RIGHT to something, that doesn't mean you have to exercise it.
Awesome, this is your opinion. And it differs from mine, therefore my opinion is inferior?
Seems to me it's a typical maligned forum mentality people have.
Your post personified this. Interesting how you post up your experience is the way things should be versus what the legality is. Yes, there's a difference in the business world because of the reality of enforcement. So everyone should ignore the law and just go off of the hearsay and experience of others like yourself?
You corrected nothing. Look at the title of this thread. ABC News used my picture without permission. What part of MY PICTURE and WITHOUT PERMISSION do you not understand? You've gone out of your way to misinterpret this entire thread and are simply being argumentative. Go away.
I'm going to cut you some slack here but know that as I see it you've been borderline abusive and without cause. Joel's post is in no way confusing and yet you've come out swinging in very condescending tones. I'll ask that you kindly refrain from further comment in this thread.
.
I disagree. Joel's tone was attacking from the onset. Unfriendly to the poster, and unprofessional as a moderator.
If this is the tone for the forum, so be it. But it doesn't reflect the type of tone that is expected in the other forums.
Wow, this type of attitude from someone who's a moderator? How unprofessional. And what I don't get is the mindset that everyone should think about their work the same way you do. It's my opinion, you have yours--leave it at that.
Well said.
Awesome, this is your opinion. And it differs from mine, therefore my opinion is inferior?
Your post personified this. Interesting how you post up your experience is the way things should be versus what the legality is. Yes, there's a difference in the business world because of the reality of enforcement. So everyone should ignore the law and just go off of the hearsay and experience of others like yourself?
Very true.Post reported.
Rudeness indeed.
I disagree. Joel's tone was attacking from the onset. Unfriendly to the poster, and unprofessional as a moderator.
If this is the tone for the forum, so be it. But it doesn't reflect the type of tone that is expected in the other forums.
Well, excuse me.
You're just mad because I said I didn't understand your mindset.
So you and Blaker think I'm ignorant about copyright protection. Please tell us specifically what I wrote that was incorrect? My post was my opinion about how to treat friends and clients.
Blaker repeatedly called me ignorant on copyright law, even though this thread has NOTHING to do with copyright law. I merely said what MY own philosophy was and discussed mindsets. Now if I called YOU ignorant on a topic that you never broached, judging from the way you just spoke to me above, I'm guessing you'd really blow your stack. Well, guess what? I'm human too.
Now I'm sure you have the law on your side in your particular case where you came after your friends with a big stick. However, I just wouldn't do it. Capeesh?
Gentlemen: I will address this as gently as possible - KNOCK IT OFF!
Samir - you enter an otherwise deflated discussion a week after any other comments were made, interject your opinions into those of two other members, unwarranted I might add, throw gasoline on the fire and then make a complaint? Not cool.
Let it be.
I've read and re-read the posts in this thread and its clear to me, despite the thread's title, Joel was not implicating anyone in matters of copyright infringement and yet that is where the focus of criticism has been.
Gentlemen: I will address this as gently as possible - KNOCK IT OFF!
Samir - you enter an otherwise deflated discussion a week after any other comments were made, interject your opinions into those of two other members, unwarranted I might add, throw gasoline on the fire and then make a complaint? Not cool.
Let it be.
I've read and re-read the posts in this thread and its clear to me, despite the thread's title, Joel was not implicating anyone in matters of copyright infringement and yet that is where the focus of criticism has been.
Let's dial it back and stay on topic.
Well there you go ruining a great idea I was developing. I was thinking about renting the HP Arena and setting up a cage. We could raise money for a worthy charity.
Now if I called YOU ignorant on a topic that you never broached, judging from the way you just spoke to me above, I'm guessing you'd really blow your stack. Well, guess what? I'm human too.
What? I thought you were a dolphin (that was starting to look tasty).:fish
I'd have to re-read this whole thread to take sides but you both made so much sense in your own ways that I probably am confused as to who said what.
Set it up Sam. We're ready to watch::duel
Until then, can the dolphin that knows how to work that customized p&s camera please post more pics?
You're just mad because I said I didn't understand your mindset.
So you and Blaker think I'm ignorant about copyright protection. Please tell us specifically what I wrote that was incorrect? My post was my opinion about how to treat friends and clients.
Blaker repeatedly called me ignorant on copyright law, even though this thread has NOTHING to do with copyright law. I merely said what MY own philosophy was and discussed mindsets. Now if I called YOU ignorant on a topic that you never broached, judging from the way you just spoke to me above, I'm guessing you'd really blow your stack. Well, guess what? I'm human too.
Now I'm sure you have the law on your side in your particular case where you came after your friends with a big stick. However, I just wouldn't do it. Capeesh?
I'm not mad at all. We have different opinions and I can respect that.
I could care less now if you know anything about copyrights or not. As far as your opinion, you are welcome to express it, but with the absence of somehow making it seem your situation is 'right' and referring to my situation as 'wrong'. Posts like that introduce elements of cyberbullying and defamation of character.
I understand that we're all human and have our limits. But when you're in a position of authority, you inherit the responsibility of having to bite your tongue more than the layman. Imagine if the Presidential candidates flew off the handle when they got upset? Would we want a President that would do that, even if their point of view was correct?
I think you misinterpreted the topic of my original thread. It was to illustrate how publications could use the 'innocent infringer' plea to avoid any consequences for illegal use. At no point did I take any action against my friend as you seem to believe. And just as your thread has derailed from the original topic, mine did too. It's the nature of forum discussions. It happens. I assumed that you didn't intend that, so I didn't say anything about it.
To avoid any more derailment of your thread, if there's anymore discussion on this tangent, just PM me and we'll talk about it that way.
Gentlemen: I will address this as gently as possible - KNOCK IT OFF!
Samir - you enter an otherwise deflated discussion a week after any other comments were made, interject your opinions into those of two other members, unwarranted I might add, throw gasoline on the fire and then make a complaint? Not cool.
Let it be.
I've read and re-read the posts in this thread and its clear to me, despite the thread's title, Joel was not implicating anyone in matters of copyright infringement and yet that is where the focus of criticism has been.
Let's dial it back and stay on topic.
Sorry about the mess Angelo. I just didn't agree with the posts since they introduced me as an example of 'wrong'.
I didn't say anything when my topic was derailed into a moral debate from my original topic, but I guess I should have. I'll report something like that next time.
In my opinion, kdog's aggressive tone in both threads as a moderator sends the wrong message as dgrin being a friendly community. I've never run into any user on here that has been able to use that tone and get positive reinforcement for it like he has. In the world of community management, you have those power-tripping moderators that can damage your community's reputation. In my opinion, kdog has shown his ability to be this type of moderator.
These are the only thoughts I have to your response, and to return this thread to the original topic, please PM me with any replies.
I'm sure I will be in the minority here. The way I see it is that you took the pictures for a friend, got paid for them and gave him the images. In absence of any other agreements, I don't see why they wouldn't use them in any way they see fit. Yes, maybe there are some copyright issues with this -- or maybe not. But we're talking about a friend here. Why not just be happy for them and let it go? You can still put the publication on your resume, so you even get something out of it as well.
I had something similar to me happen recently. Maybe I'll post about it.
Just shows how clueless some photographers are about where the money is.
[...]
And I'm the rude and aggressive one? Really? You called me clueless because I politely offered an alternative view. And because I'm a mod, I guess you figure you get a free punch at me. You really ought to take an objective look at how you communicate on the internet before you go around trying to assassinate somebody else's character. :nono
In my opinion, kdog's aggressive tone in both threads as a moderator sends the wrong message as dgrin being a friendly community. I've never run into any user on here that has been able to use that tone and get positive reinforcement for it like he has. In the world of community management, you have those power-tripping moderators that can damage your community's reputation. In my opinion, kdog has shown his ability to be this type of moderator.
In MY opinion , you are being very precious and making mountains out of nothing.
If you think what has been said was too aggressive, I think you need to take a tablespoon of concrete and harden up.
Comments
I'm going to cut you some slack here but know that as I see it you've been borderline abusive and without cause. Joel's post is in no way confusing and yet you've come out swinging in very condescending tones. I'll ask that you kindly refrain from further comment in this thread.
.
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
If this is the tone for the forum, so be it. But it doesn't reflect the type of tone that is expected in the other forums.
Want faster uploading? Vote for FTP!
Well, excuse me.
You're just mad because I said I didn't understand your mindset.
So you and Blaker think I'm ignorant about copyright protection. Please tell us specifically what I wrote that was incorrect? My post was my opinion about how to treat friends and clients.
Blaker repeatedly called me ignorant on copyright law, even though this thread has NOTHING to do with copyright law. I merely said what MY own philosophy was and discussed mindsets. Now if I called YOU ignorant on a topic that you never broached, judging from the way you just spoke to me above, I'm guessing you'd really blow your stack. Well, guess what? I'm human too.
Now I'm sure you have the law on your side in your particular case where you came after your friends with a big stick. However, I just wouldn't do it. Capeesh?
Link to my Smugmug site
Samir - you enter an otherwise deflated discussion a week after any other comments were made, interject your opinions into those of two other members, unwarranted I might add, throw gasoline on the fire and then make a complaint? Not cool.
Let it be.
I've read and re-read the posts in this thread and its clear to me, despite the thread's title, Joel was not implicating anyone in matters of copyright infringement and yet that is where the focus of criticism has been.
Let's dial it back and stay on topic.
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
Well there you go ruining a great idea I was developing. I was thinking about renting the HP Arena and setting up a cage. We could raise money for a worthy charity.
Sam
I'd have to re-read this whole thread to take sides but you both made so much sense in your own ways that I probably am confused as to who said what.
Set it up Sam. We're ready to watch::duel
Until then, can the dolphin that knows how to work that customized p&s camera
Link to my Smugmug site
I could care less now if you know anything about copyrights or not. As far as your opinion, you are welcome to express it, but with the absence of somehow making it seem your situation is 'right' and referring to my situation as 'wrong'. Posts like that introduce elements of cyberbullying and defamation of character.
I understand that we're all human and have our limits. But when you're in a position of authority, you inherit the responsibility of having to bite your tongue more than the layman. Imagine if the Presidential candidates flew off the handle when they got upset? Would we want a President that would do that, even if their point of view was correct?
I think you misinterpreted the topic of my original thread. It was to illustrate how publications could use the 'innocent infringer' plea to avoid any consequences for illegal use. At no point did I take any action against my friend as you seem to believe. And just as your thread has derailed from the original topic, mine did too. It's the nature of forum discussions. It happens. I assumed that you didn't intend that, so I didn't say anything about it.
To avoid any more derailment of your thread, if there's anymore discussion on this tangent, just PM me and we'll talk about it that way.
I didn't say anything when my topic was derailed into a moral debate from my original topic, but I guess I should have. I'll report something like that next time.
In my opinion, kdog's aggressive tone in both threads as a moderator sends the wrong message as dgrin being a friendly community. I've never run into any user on here that has been able to use that tone and get positive reinforcement for it like he has. In the world of community management, you have those power-tripping moderators that can damage your community's reputation. In my opinion, kdog has shown his ability to be this type of moderator.
These are the only thoughts I have to your response, and to return this thread to the original topic, please PM me with any replies.
Again, sorry about the mess.
Want faster uploading? Vote for FTP!
This was your response.
And I'm the rude and aggressive one? Really? You called me clueless because I politely offered an alternative view. And because I'm a mod, I guess you figure you get a free punch at me. You really ought to take an objective look at how you communicate on the internet before you go around trying to assassinate somebody else's character. :nono
Link to my Smugmug site
In MY opinion , you are being very precious and making mountains out of nothing.
If you think what has been said was too aggressive, I think you need to take a tablespoon of concrete and harden up.