I really doubt 2 mp is going to make a difference between the 6D and 5D3. Any difference between the 6D and 5D2 should be due to generational advancements, not mp. According to DxO (), the D4 and D600 beat the D800 for noise, but just barely.
That was intended as tongue-in-cheek - remember when the 7d bumped up from 15mp and pundits said the world was going to end in a deluge of noise?
Honestly, I'm willing to wait and see since the price point would definitely be attractive to me; if it could be a stepping-stone camera to a 5d3 that got me into FF pro tem that would be nice. That said, business seems to be growing right now, and it may be that I'll actually have enough to just add a 5d3 after the new year; we'll see....
It retails for $600 less than the 5D2 did for most of its life, and it has some new features and a new sensor. That's better than what Leica did with the M9 -> M-E. Let's see what that new sensor does, eh? If they had just put the 21mp 5D2 sensor in it, that would seem cheap of them.
If it had the 7D AF, that would cut too close to the 5D3. I agree the price isn't quite right. For $2099 it should have a 9 cross-type point AF. As-is it should retail for $1899. Nobody would be complaining then. Maybe when it hits the stores the price will be adjusted. I read it is already 20,000 Yen ($255) less than the D600 in Japan.
I agree, but we are paying the prices of today so there is no practical point in comparing the price of
a 6D to a 5D2 from 4 years ago (other than discussing the advancements of camera production and
marketing), what matters to buyers now is how the price (and features) compare today.
It will be interesting to see how soon the street price drops below the MRSP and how it gains
popularity among those upgrading to full frame for the first time.
“To consult the rules of composition before making a picture is a little like consulting the law of gravitation before going for a walk.”
― Edward Weston
I'm not usually a big Rockwell fan, but he has a little more info than others are publishing (as well as some side-by-side charts with the other FF cameras in the lineup, which is in teresting). I will say the more I read about this unit, the more interesting it becomes. It really will entirely depend on whether or not those AF points are accurate and useable whether or not it's something I'd consider a reasonable choice (or a reasonable choice until I can afford a 5d3 )
ETA: I note that he's writing as though he has one in hand.... but have review copies even been released yet? This is the first publication I've seen that makes it sound like they actually *have* a unit.
I'm not usually a big Rockwell fan, but he has a little more info than others are publishing (as well as some side-by-side charts with the other FF cameras in the lineup, which is in teresting). I will say the more I read about this unit, the more interesting it becomes. It really will entirely depend on whether or not those AF points are accurate and useable whether or not it's something I'd consider a reasonable choice (or a reasonable choice until I can afford a 5d3 )
ETA: I note that he's writing as though he has one in hand.... but have review copies even been released yet? This is the first publication I've seen that makes it sound like they actually *have* a unit.
No, I don't think that Ken Rockwell has seen a 6D in person yet.
He mentions the 6D having a PC flash connector, but I do not believe that is accurate.
I agree, but we are paying the prices of today so there is no practical point in comparing the price of
a 6D to a 5D2 from 4 years ago (other than discussing the advancements of camera production and
marketing), what matters to buyers now is how the price (and features) compare today.
True, but I believe silent shutter and in-cam HDR are easily worth the $200 premium over a "new" 5D2. The new sensor probably offers some value too. I think if you have Canon lenses and you want your first FF camera, the 6D is the clear choice over the 5D2. However if you already have a 5D2, it's probably not worth upgrading.
That said, I still think the 6D should be $1899, but I guess Canon is stacking their 1 big honkin -3EV center cross-type AF point up against Nikon's 9 cross-types as equivalent.
-Jack
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
I didn't think the 6D had a pc sync either however on the canon websight it does list it as "provided" what ever that means.
I have requested a clarification from Canon USA, Marketing. It could be a while before I get a response because I think much of the Marketing Department are away just now.
Edit: Wow, I just got the response (that was quick).
There is no PC Connector on the Canon 6D. You should see a change to the specifications as soon as the web site production team deletes the erroneous description.
The truth is that there are a lot of lighting solutions for a hot shoe only capable camera, partly to satisfy the growing number of entry level camera bodies out there, that both Nikon and now Canon are now content to omit the PC connector on their entry level FF bodies.
good writeup but I'll wait for more hands on reviews
Oh, of course! I don't do the "pre-order" thing - in fact, I usually wait until any model is established and gone through its first round of "beta testing on the street". I had a first-year-model car once and vowed NEVER AGAIN
I just keep seeing stories/reviews linked from various FB friends or newsfeeds, so throw 'em up here when I do for the interested to read and enjoy
I will say that from these early previews and comments, it seems that the AF really will be the dealbreaker as to whether this camera truly has a place in the Canon lineup. If it is decent, then this may well be a way to FF for those of us who just can't afford the 5d3 and are a bit iffy about the 5d2's AF.... and longevity. Given that my 24-70 is now a "retired" lens, my 580ex is "no longer supported" and I'm sure my xsi (backup camera) will be relegated to the Canon sump hold fairly soon, there is an attraction in getting a piece of gear which is likely to be supported throughout the time I own it and use it....
Thought came to my head today when shooting while tethered is the possibility of tethering wirelessly, not only for checking focus and composition but backing up photos in multiple locations.
Also it was a big pain moving the laptop and camera every time I wanted to recopose for another shot. Now don't think I expect to go full auto but when on location I shoot a frame every 5-10 seconds at max. Heck even when shooting a sporting event I do not spray and pray I feel it ruins the whole "making the right shot" part of it.
BMW Tech
Live life to its fullest you never know whats in your future. WWW.REVLINEPHOTO.COM
Thought came to my head today when shooting while tethered is the possibility of tethering wirelessly, not only for checking focus and composition but backing up photos in multiple locations.
Also it was a big pain moving the laptop and camera every time I wanted to recopose for another shot. Now don't think I expect to go full auto but when on location I shoot a frame every 5-10 seconds at max. ...
You almost just have to try Wi-Fi to see if it works for your situation. It's not necessarily a "must have" for most people. Tethered is generally much more reliable and even that delay can throw off your timing if you have to chimp the shot.
... Heck even when shooting a sporting event I do not spray and pray I feel it ruins the whole "making the right shot" part of it.
The only time a professional will use a "spray-and-pray" approach is remote wireless, like for an Olympic event when there is no opportunity for shooters on the field, but they can set unattended cameras, remotely fired. (Generally, they will use anticipation and short bursts instead, but a very responsive professional camera body helps tremendously. A skilled professional sports shooter can anticipate to the point of making the second shot in a sequence the "money" shot.)
In that situation professionals will use simple Pocketwizard units to remote trigger the camera body. I cannot imagine an iOS or Android application being fast enough communication for sports (or any action) photography.
The only time a professional will use a "spray-and-pray" approach is remote wireless, like for an Olympic event when there is no opportunity for shooters on the field, but they can set unattended cameras, remotely fired. (Generally, they will use anticipation and short bursts instead, but a very responsive professional camera body helps tremendously. A skilled professional sports shooter can anticipate to the point of making the second shot in a sequence the "money" shot.)
In that situation professionals will use simple Pocketwizard units to remote trigger the camera body. I cannot imagine an iOS or Android application being fast enough communication for sports (or any action) photography.
You'd be surprised how much care and prep it takes to get the shot. I spent two days with a Sports Illustrated photographer learning the ins and outs of remote camera work back in April. There's a LOT to it, and a lot that can go wrong. Someone can jump onto your frequency without you knowing. You can get cell phone interference. You could have wire failure, you could have transient signal issue like from the security radios in a venue.
And until the Nikon D4, you had to worry about overrunning the buffer. Something Dave Black spoke at length about in his discussions of shooting the Kentucky Derby.
I can bring up to 6 remotes to an event, but the first lesson with them is: "Never trust that you will get the shot with a remote camera. Period.
What DPreview said comparing the Nikon D600 to the Canon 6D mirrors my thoughts exactly:
That said, the Nikon D600 is not a camera to be underestimated. Although it doesn't offer a lot in the way of new novel technologies, it has a spec sheet crammed with familiar, high-end features. It's essentially a full-frame D7000, but that means it doesn't give up much in terms of specification to the much more expensive D800. And, by comparison, Canon's EOS 6D seems a little slight. The list prices of the two cameras are similar in most territories (with the Nikon being a shade pricier in some), but the D600 offers more focus points, a viewfinder with 100% coverage, slightly faster continuous shooting, twin card slots and a built-in flash capable of controlling groups of remote flashguns. The Canon, by contrast has an AF system rated to -3EV (one quarter of the light needed by the Nikon), and built-in GPS and Wi-Fi, which the Nikon gains only via a little plug-in accessory.
The 6D missing the focus pts of even the 7D, and missing the flash for triggering off camera flash has me completely flabbergasted. When I heard about the camera, I thought it the prefect upgrade from the 40D. But now, not so much. If anything, this has me waiting until they either get it right, or the 5DMkIII goes way down in price. Maybe I should just switch to Nikon.
The focus points may be a issue but only tests can tell on that. As for the not using the on camera flash to trigger others that is perfectly fine with me that uses line of sight and if you dont know what you are doing makes the image look like crap because most of the time on camera flash does not work well. I shoot with off camera flash quite a bit using old cheap trigers and now run the Pocketwizzard plus III as long as I have a hot shoe I am happy. Wi-Fi and gps seams more of gimics but will see the functionality of it latter.
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Live life to its fullest you never know whats in your future. WWW.REVLINEPHOTO.COM
The focus points may be a issue but only tests can tell on that. As for the not using the on camera flash to trigger others that is perfectly fine with me that uses line of sight and if you dont know what you are doing makes the image look like crap because most of the time on camera flash does not work well. I shoot with off camera flash quite a bit using old cheap trigers and now run the Pocketwizzard plus III as long as I have a hot shoe I am happy. Wi-Fi and gps seams more of gimics but will see the functionality of it latter.
Well, I don't want the on-board flash for actually lighting a scene, I want it to trigger my 430EX, and 580EX flashes.
Well, I don't want the on-board flash for actually lighting a scene, I want it to trigger my 430EX, and 580EX flashes.
The 7D can do this. Or you can get an ST-E2 transmitter, or just a cable. The AF spec is a bit bewildering, but -3EV is less than candle light. So it stands to reason the center AF will be very very good in normal light. Focus-recompose works well enough, right? And hey, maybe those outer line-types have been improved too. But I agree the D600 looks better on paper. Maybe when the 6D hits stores here it will be discounted to make up for the glaring differences in spec. I've read it is already discounted in Japan. I think a fair price would be $1899.
-Jack
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
cmason, while the 7d's onboard is useful - and I"m glad to have it as a backup - it does "lock up" if you use it for an entire shoot. Never have figured out what that is about, but it did it consistently enough (and I read enough reports of it doing it to others) that typically I continue to use my STE2 (and, now, the Pixel King radio triggers). Also, the settings on the STE2 are easier to get at since they're not in a menu.
Don't get me wrong, I DO wish they had included a popup commander in both the 5d3 and 6d - ideally an improved version - but it's not quite the dealbreaker it might seem.
cmason, while the 7d's onboard is useful - and I"m glad to have it as a backup - it does "lock up" if you use it for an entire shoot. Never have figured out what that is about, but it did it consistently enough (and I read enough reports of it doing it to others) that typically I continue to use my STE2 (and, now, the Pixel King radio triggers). Also, the settings on the STE2 are easier to get at since they're not in a menu.
Don't get me wrong, I DO wish they had included a popup commander in both the 5d3 and 6d - ideally an improved version - but it's not quite the dealbreaker it might seem.
Fudge...was really hoping to eliminate my STE2. Its works well, but it should be built-in, not bolted on. The fact that the 7D does this is just adding fuel to the fire...the 6D (and frankly every model Canon ships forward), should have this.
Anyone know if the 6D supports the new (outrageously expensive) wireless Canon Speedlights?
Fudge...was really hoping to eliminate my STE2. Its works well, but it should be built-in, not bolted on. The fact that the 7D does this is just adding fuel to the fire...the 6D (and frankly every model Canon ships forward), should have this.
Anyone know if the 6D supports the new (outrageously expensive) wireless Canon Speedlights?
I think they should have RF wireless technology in the camera to trigger external flashes, not using the pop up flash
"... my only qualms about putting down a pre-order were around the AF system. Now, based on my experience, those qualms are gone. The 6D may only have one center cross-type AF point, compared to the 41 cross-type points on the 5D3′s AF system, but Westfall actually said that AF speed on the 6D could potentially outperform the 5D3 in low-light situations using that single cross-type. With image quality, too, Westfall said that the 6D should be on par with the 5D3 at lower ISOs, but should outperform at higher ISOs, thanks to larger pixels on the full-frame sensor."
Comments
That was intended as tongue-in-cheek - remember when the 7d bumped up from 15mp and pundits said the world was going to end in a deluge of noise?
Honestly, I'm willing to wait and see since the price point would definitely be attractive to me; if it could be a stepping-stone camera to a 5d3 that got me into FF pro tem that would be nice. That said, business seems to be growing right now, and it may be that I'll actually have enough to just add a 5d3 after the new year; we'll see....
I agree, but we are paying the prices of today so there is no practical point in comparing the price of
a 6D to a 5D2 from 4 years ago (other than discussing the advancements of camera production and
marketing), what matters to buyers now is how the price (and features) compare today.
It will be interesting to see how soon the street price drops below the MRSP and how it gains
popularity among those upgrading to full frame for the first time.
― Edward Weston
http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/6d.htm
ETA: I note that he's writing as though he has one in hand.... but have review copies even been released yet? This is the first publication I've seen that makes it sound like they actually *have* a unit.
No, I don't think that Ken Rockwell has seen a 6D in person yet.
He mentions the 6D having a PC flash connector, but I do not believe that is accurate.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
True, but I believe silent shutter and in-cam HDR are easily worth the $200 premium over a "new" 5D2. The new sensor probably offers some value too. I think if you have Canon lenses and you want your first FF camera, the 6D is the clear choice over the 5D2. However if you already have a 5D2, it's probably not worth upgrading.
That said, I still think the 6D should be $1899, but I guess Canon is stacking their 1 big honkin -3EV center cross-type AF point up against Nikon's 9 cross-types as equivalent.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Live life to its fullest you never know whats in your future.
WWW.REVLINEPHOTO.COM
I have requested a clarification from Canon USA, Marketing. It could be a while before I get a response because I think much of the Marketing Department are away just now.
Edit: Wow, I just got the response (that was quick).
There is no PC Connector on the Canon 6D. You should see a change to the specifications as soon as the web site production team deletes the erroneous description.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Live life to its fullest you never know whats in your future.
WWW.REVLINEPHOTO.COM
Yes, that's what I would do and what I would recommend for some applications.
http://flashzebra.com/products/0268/index.shtml
The truth is that there are a lot of lighting solutions for a hot shoe only capable camera, partly to satisfy the growing number of entry level camera bodies out there, that both Nikon and now Canon are now content to omit the PC connector on their entry level FF bodies.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Live life to its fullest you never know whats in your future.
WWW.REVLINEPHOTO.COM
good writeup but I'll wait for more hands on reviews
Oh, of course! I don't do the "pre-order" thing - in fact, I usually wait until any model is established and gone through its first round of "beta testing on the street". I had a first-year-model car once and vowed NEVER AGAIN
I just keep seeing stories/reviews linked from various FB friends or newsfeeds, so throw 'em up here when I do for the interested to read and enjoy
I will say that from these early previews and comments, it seems that the AF really will be the dealbreaker as to whether this camera truly has a place in the Canon lineup. If it is decent, then this may well be a way to FF for those of us who just can't afford the 5d3 and are a bit iffy about the 5d2's AF.... and longevity. Given that my 24-70 is now a "retired" lens, my 580ex is "no longer supported" and I'm sure my xsi (backup camera) will be relegated to the Canon sump hold fairly soon, there is an attraction in getting a piece of gear which is likely to be supported throughout the time I own it and use it....
Also it was a big pain moving the laptop and camera every time I wanted to recopose for another shot. Now don't think I expect to go full auto but when on location I shoot a frame every 5-10 seconds at max. Heck even when shooting a sporting event I do not spray and pray I feel it ruins the whole "making the right shot" part of it.
Live life to its fullest you never know whats in your future.
WWW.REVLINEPHOTO.COM
You almost just have to try Wi-Fi to see if it works for your situation. It's not necessarily a "must have" for most people. Tethered is generally much more reliable and even that delay can throw off your timing if you have to chimp the shot.
The only time a professional will use a "spray-and-pray" approach is remote wireless, like for an Olympic event when there is no opportunity for shooters on the field, but they can set unattended cameras, remotely fired. (Generally, they will use anticipation and short bursts instead, but a very responsive professional camera body helps tremendously. A skilled professional sports shooter can anticipate to the point of making the second shot in a sequence the "money" shot.)
Image attribution: Reuters/Pawel Kopczynski/Secondphotofabrizio
In that situation professionals will use simple Pocketwizard units to remote trigger the camera body. I cannot imagine an iOS or Android application being fast enough communication for sports (or any action) photography.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Almost can't miss with a set up like that ^^ !!
You'd be surprised how much care and prep it takes to get the shot. I spent two days with a Sports Illustrated photographer learning the ins and outs of remote camera work back in April. There's a LOT to it, and a lot that can go wrong. Someone can jump onto your frequency without you knowing. You can get cell phone interference. You could have wire failure, you could have transient signal issue like from the security radios in a venue.
And until the Nikon D4, you had to worry about overrunning the buffer. Something Dave Black spoke at length about in his discussions of shooting the Kentucky Derby.
I can bring up to 6 remotes to an event, but the first lesson with them is: "Never trust that you will get the shot with a remote camera. Period.
perroneford@ptfphoto.com
That said, the Nikon D600 is not a camera to be underestimated. Although it doesn't offer a lot in the way of new novel technologies, it has a spec sheet crammed with familiar, high-end features. It's essentially a full-frame D7000, but that means it doesn't give up much in terms of specification to the much more expensive D800. And, by comparison, Canon's EOS 6D seems a little slight. The list prices of the two cameras are similar in most territories (with the Nikon being a shade pricier in some), but the D600 offers more focus points, a viewfinder with 100% coverage, slightly faster continuous shooting, twin card slots and a built-in flash capable of controlling groups of remote flashguns. The Canon, by contrast has an AF system rated to -3EV (one quarter of the light needed by the Nikon), and built-in GPS and Wi-Fi, which the Nikon gains only via a little plug-in accessory.
link
The 6D missing the focus pts of even the 7D, and missing the flash for triggering off camera flash has me completely flabbergasted. When I heard about the camera, I thought it the prefect upgrade from the 40D. But now, not so much. If anything, this has me waiting until they either get it right, or the 5DMkIII goes way down in price. Maybe I should just switch to Nikon.
Live life to its fullest you never know whats in your future.
WWW.REVLINEPHOTO.COM
Well, I don't want the on-board flash for actually lighting a scene, I want it to trigger my 430EX, and 580EX flashes.
The 7D can do this. Or you can get an ST-E2 transmitter, or just a cable. The AF spec is a bit bewildering, but -3EV is less than candle light. So it stands to reason the center AF will be very very good in normal light. Focus-recompose works well enough, right? And hey, maybe those outer line-types have been improved too. But I agree the D600 looks better on paper. Maybe when the 6D hits stores here it will be discounted to make up for the glaring differences in spec. I've read it is already discounted in Japan. I think a fair price would be $1899.
An "accurate" reproduction of a scene and a good photograph are often two different things.
Don't get me wrong, I DO wish they had included a popup commander in both the 5d3 and 6d - ideally an improved version - but it's not quite the dealbreaker it might seem.
Fudge...was really hoping to eliminate my STE2. Its works well, but it should be built-in, not bolted on. The fact that the 7D does this is just adding fuel to the fire...the 6D (and frankly every model Canon ships forward), should have this.
Anyone know if the 6D supports the new (outrageously expensive) wireless Canon Speedlights?
I think they should have RF wireless technology in the camera to trigger external flashes, not using the pop up flash
http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/25/hands-on-with-the-canon-6d-an-affordable-full-frame-with-wi-fi-on-board
An interesting quote from the above review:
"... my only qualms about putting down a pre-order were around the AF system. Now, based on my experience, those qualms are gone. The 6D may only have one center cross-type AF point, compared to the 41 cross-type points on the 5D3′s AF system, but Westfall actually said that AF speed on the 6D could potentially outperform the 5D3 in low-light situations using that single cross-type. With image quality, too, Westfall said that the 6D should be on par with the 5D3 at lower ISOs, but should outperform at higher ISOs, thanks to larger pixels on the full-frame sensor."
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums